Season 5 of Feministe’s Next Top Troll is going strong, and we’re on to the predictable round where we’re all lectured on how feminism has led us away from true femininity. Vote for your favorite below the fold.
S, from Sex Trafficking: Inside the Business of Modern Slavery:
This is unrelated to this article but I don’t know where else to comment.
Why is the logo for this website a little girl holding a gun? Do you think the way to empower girls and women is to give them weapons? Is this because weapons are so powerful or because we want women to seem as socially and biologically MALE as possible – including on the traits of violence & aggression.
Maybe we need to think about empowering our girls by teaching them to love being women, and to develop their natural strengths and talents – EVEN IF (or especially if)) THESE TALENTS ARE UNLIKE THOSE TALENTS OF MOST MEN – rather than by coveting the most ugly of male qualities and turning it into “feminism”.
Mom of 4 boys, from Inside the Quiverfull Movement:
TMOM, I agree with you too! My sweet husband and I are quiverfull although we only have four arrows so far. True freedom is found in Christ. I love staying home and homeschooling my four precious boys. I love how sweet my husband is to me and our children. I love to see the joy in my husband’s face when we find out that we are expecting yet another of God’s blessings! I love having mine and my husband’s child growing inside of me. I am truely a queen in my home! My husband is my best friend, my lover, our provider and so much more.
We are all a slave to something. “Many women naively follow individualistic feminist thought right into the arms of corporate America. Instead of being servants to their families, they become slaves to a system that cares nothing about them. In their delusion they believe they are finally free. What they don’t realize is that Satan stands laughing as he wipes his feet on their precious personhood.” (Desperate Housewives Passionate for God) I would much rather spend my time serving my family then serving my boss.
I am a former feminist. I used to tell my friends that we have to take care of ourselves. I thought most men were bad. Now I realize how foolish I was. My real issue was that I didn’t trust God. There is such a peace in trusting God. Feminism started way back in the Garden of Eden when Eve believed Satan’s lie and took matters into her own hands.
Birth control and abortion is nothing less than shaking your fist at God and saying, “I don’t want your blessings!” The sad fact of abortion is that the poor innocent babies are tortured all in the name of choice! Babies are burned alive during a second trimester abortion. During a third trimester abortion, scissors are stuck in the back of the baby’s skull and their brains are sucked out! In the first trimester, their limbs are pulled off as the baby silently screams. All in the name of choice mind you! This is where feminism and its philosophies have led you.
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Mom-of-4-Boys was priceless! Ah, the anti-feminist brainwashing of the Quiverfull movement never fails to make me chuckle . . . or scream in horror . . .
ok wow, is there really much of a contest? mom of 4 boys wins – hands down. i didn’t even want to finish reading it but i had to, like a horrible car wreck.
Mom of 4
Wow. Just wow. I mean…wow. Another one of those freedom from vs. freedom to BS dichotomies. Feminism strengthens capitalism and makes women corporate slaves, who knew? Also, the burning babies alive and silently screaming (do fetuses even have mouths or lungs in the first trimester?) were a very nice touch. And I’m not sure how the burning would work, but uhmmm, okay.
Mom of 4 boys wins for me, because I am having such delightful fantasies of tying her to a chair and deprogramming her by explaining at length why each point is just plain wrong – from the hideous theology to the krazee medical “facts”. And doing it over and over again until it sinks in.
Such people are very bad for my soul.
“Mom of 4 boys”, for the referencing of “Desperate Housewives Passionate for God”, which I’m pretty sure is the title of a spam email I got recently.
And that bad because…
*shaking fist* I don’t want your blessings!!
My mate reads me similar cack sent from her grandmother. Inevitably loaded with angels, puppies, blessings and Gawd. The last paragraph was just awful nonsense.
That crazy Eve, taking matters into her own hands…
Mom of 4 boys wins this round. Not just for the sheer Stepfordness and pure ignorance of her diatribe – this lady didn’t just drink the Kool-Aid, she’s been mainlining it – but I’ve always found something scary and disheartening about women who identify themselves online (or anywhere else, really) solely as “Mom of…” or “So-and-so’s Mommy”. Get your OWN identity, hon.
I would much rather spend my time serving my family then serving my boss. Not me…my boss doesn’t whine about Barbies or throw dirty socks on the floor, I can have intelligent conversations with my boss, and I get paid for putting up with her.
Sounds like something out of Margaret Atwood’s “The Handmaid’s Tale” doesn’t it?
I just can’t get over Mom of 4 boys. Second trimester abortion = burning babies alive? How does that even work? I’ve heard the phrase “fire in your belly”, but I’m pretty sure that’s just a metaphor…
“Babies are burned alive during a second trimester abortion.”
Mom wins.
I don’t know, I’m conflicted. S is wonderfully prescriptive about women’s behaviour, while Mom of 4 is starts off relatively mild before descending into full-blown anti-choice ranting. If it came down to it, I think S could be reasoned with, so Mom of 4 wins on points.
Is that the same S who was taking a dump all over one of the Tiller threads recently? I had to throw my vote to hir just for persistance.
Although I did love the burning babies alive bit.
As far as trolls go, I can’t vote for mom of 4 boys because she’s so sincere. Trolling is cruising for trouble. Mom of 4 boys is truly believing this stuff, and that just makes me nervous, not capable of laughing and saying fuck you too like with most trolls.
I dunno, Darcy, S seems pretty sincere too.
I feel like this round could also be titled “Irony Recognition FAIL.”
Mom of 4, without doubt.
Mom of 4 boys. Yes, if I control my own vagina, clearly I am participating in infanticide. It’s only reasonable.
So Mom of 4 boys wins, but her partner works right? How come he has to be the corporate slave and she gets the ‘joy’ and ‘freedom’ of serving children. Or are we men better able to bow down in capitalistic serfdom.
The “burning babies alive” comment is a reference to Moloch, an ancient god to whom babies were sacrificed by burning. It’s the New Big Thing to refer to pro-Choicers as “servants of Moloch”. *shrugs*
Meanwhile, can I just say my number one pet peeve is adding -ic to a word that IS ALREADY AN ADJECTIVE? Like “individualistic”. “Feministic”. “Atheistic”. It drives me batty, and seems to be a favorite, verbal/typographical quirk of right wingers.
@Icewyche: totally agree. That bugs the hell out of me.
Awww, Mom, you’re so cute. But tell me, how does one silently scream?
@Elizabeth Anne
There is a difference between being an individual feminist (being one feminist) and being an individualistic feminist (being a feminist who believes that people should pursue their own goals). As for atheist/atheistic, my dictionary (American Heritage, 1992) lists the former as a noun and the latter as an adjective.
I dunno–I think S may deserve an honest reply. Mom of 4, on the other hand, is totally nuts.
…I am a former feminist … All in the name of choice mind you! This is where feminism and its philosophies have led you.
Notice the “former feminist” writing “you,” not “us.” Mmm hmm, yeah. Mom of 4 Boys gets my vote, because it’s kind of annoying when dudes fake up messages like that.
Oh, god, where to start?
While the spectacular derailing in S.’s comment is pretty great, the key seems to be including phrases and arguments that cannot possibly be anything but made up, and doing so with absolute sincerity. Mom runs away with the victory thanks to “Desperate Housewives Passionate for God” and clinches it with the reference to Eve: Mother of Feminism.
Misinformed rambling about abortion is just the icing on the cake.
LOL mom of 4 gets my vote. wow.
Birth control and abortion is nothing less than shaking your fist at God and saying, “I don’t want your blessings!”
that was probably the icing on the troll cake
I’m going with S. Seriously, who knew that an ironic and snarky picture of a girl with a gun is somehow horrible? Lots of trolls try that tack and they’re the same ones who whine and bleat about how it’s totally oppressive for parents to not want their sons to play with toy guns. For concern trolling, passive-aggressiveness and faux-reason, it’s priceless.
Also, I’d love to see S hanging out in frontier times. Those chicks knew how to use guns. As for us trying to force ourselves to be femmy all the time and reject all things supposedly “male” (which changes from era to era, BTW): you will pry the soccer ball and softball bat out of my otherwise girly niece’s cold, dead fingers. SRSLY.
Momof4boys? Ugh. TL;DR. Also, “mom of” names irritate the fuck out of me. You know how many people who post here are parents and still manage to come up with better handles! And how few fathers use “dad of” titles? Jeez.
Mo4B for being fucking terrifying.
MO4B. There’s a big whiff of Stockholm syndrome there.
So if my using birth control is me shaking my fist at God, what exactly is God doing to women who miscarry? (Including those who never used eeevill birth control?)
Also, my husband is awesome even though I work and haven’t whelped out any kids. Feminism means that now, either he or I may choose to stay home if/when we have kiddos of our own. What on earth is wrong with that? And like topher said, if the working world is so terrible, what kind of partners are those of us partnered with men if we’re like, you’re the dude, you go support capitalism and be a drone and shit.
MoFour is obviously a Promise Keeper
So, what is medicine like cancer treatment? Shaking our fists at God’s blessings?
Pathetic.
So if my using birth control is me shaking my fist at God, what exactly is God doing to women who miscarry? (Including those who never used eeevill birth control?)
Why punishing them for impure thoughts (or some other naughtiness), of course. (sigh)
I secretly believe Mom of 4 boys is an Onion contributor punking us. This is pure comedy genius. Trolls aren’t that eloquent.
Isn’t that a Black Sabbath lyric?
So if my using birth control is me shaking my fist at God, what exactly is God doing to women who miscarry? (Including those who never used eeevill birth control?)
The response I’ve always gotten to this or a similar question is that miscarriages are all “part of god’s plan.” So, basically, god gets to make all kinds of choices for women and their bodies. The women themselves, however, are conveniently left out of this decision making process…god is their decider.
Silly fist-shakers!
Mom of, hands down. Or, well, up and shaking.
S, because like Darcy says, I think Momof4 might be serious. And nothing says obvious troll derailing like “I know this is unrelated but [insert totally random comment, then expound on it for multiple paragraphs involving ALL CAPS]“
The sad fact of abortion is that the poor innocent babies are tortured all in the name of choice! Babies are burned alive during a second trimester abortion. During a third trimester abortion, scissors are stuck in the back of the baby’s skull and their brains are sucked out! In the first trimester, their limbs are pulled off as the baby silently screams. All in the name of choice mind you! This is where feminism and its philosophies have led you.
Umm… What? I don’t even know how to respond to that, really… Is she trying to create a metaphor? I’ve never had an abortion, nor am I a medical professional, but I am pretty sure that scissors, limb-tearing, and burning are not part of an abortion performed by a medical doctor.
@CartoonCoyote:
MO4B. There’s a big whiff of Stockholm syndrome there.
Good call.
mo4b wins…
but seriously, I don’t think that’s a mockup. That probably *is* a woman who needs to see a therapist.
Gwrthryfel – My understanding is that some (later than first-trimester) abortions can involve dismemberment. Intact D&X was an alternative to this (hence the term intact). So the Partial Birth Abortion Act basically says “Sorry, you don’t get to hold your baby’s body to say goodbye. The American public would rather it be torn to pieces in utero, because they think removing the fetus in one piece is too icky and meen, and they don’t care that you’re facing the heartbreak of having to end a wanted pregnancy.”
I hope MO4B is a joke, though more likely it’s some fundie guy trying to post as his idea of how women should be.
The “I am a former feminist. I used to think men were bad,” line makes me sure he’s not a woman. I think the crazy is authentic, sadly, but it’s a crazy man and not a crazy woman.
Gotta love the extra sprinkling of misogyny that has this perfect fantasy woman only giving birth to boys.
Anyway, I’m voting S because MO4B is cheating.
@ Gwrthryfel
The techniques are definitely painful to learn about, but this woman is distorting the procedures to conform to her religious lunacy. Suffice to say it gets more difficult and traumatic for all involved the later into the pregnancy abortion is performed. The issue with conservatives is that they equate fetuses and even embryos with viable infants, which is ludicrous.
Virtually all abortions are performed on embryos or very early fetuses with little to no nervous system. Later term abortions are obviously more complicated and, yes, more difficult and tragic, and consequently more difficult to obtain consent from doctors. Third trimester abortions are practically nonexistent and even moreso now with the closing of Tiller’s clinic.
I had one (@ 4 weeks) when I was 16 because my mum refused to allow me on contraception and I was determined to rebel. I’ver never been so scared in all my life but luckily I was old enough do decide on my own by then and thank goodness for The Brook (London). I’ve been on my own and here in America ever since, nearly 8 years now. Woo Hoo!
Mom of 4 obviously doesn’t realise that the more arrows she collects, the more consumers she sends right into the arms of corporate america.
and isn’t it a sin for a good quiverfull woman to be frequenting a feminist blog such as this?
@Wednesday:
Thank you for explaining. After reading up on the basics, I realize that I completely misunderstood what the provisions of the act actually were. I can’t believe that legislators would make something already traumatic enough for a woman even more traumatic. And these women they are punishing through this legislation are generally women who are intending to be mothers, and have these procedures out of medical necessity – women pro-lifers claim to support, while they supported this act. (Please correct me if I have interpretted this inaccurately).
@Shiny Mae:
That is what I was thinking; that she was distorting the process, and that most abortions involve nothing like that.
Well, of course we burn innocent little fetuses in second-trimester abortions. Where else are we supposed to get deep-fried babies for our breakfast table?
Mo4b for the win. The batshit-insane, creepifying win.
@ CornponeDownUnder: Deep-fried babies are too high in fat; I prefer mine grilled. I’ve got a recipe for Spicy Orange Fetus that’s to die for.
BTW, shaking your fist at God and saying “I don’t want your blessings”: Totally doesn’t work.
I had to vote for the underdog, but Mom of 4 made me think… “god” blessed me with spina bifida right in the area of my spine where a potential fetus would be pressing against my spinal cord… so “god” also wants to bless me with paralysis from the waist down? Maybe it’s ableist of me, but I don’t think of that as being much of a blessing, especially if it can be avoided by taking my pills and shaking my fist.
Totes going with Mom of 4 boys, mainly for the insanity about pulling off the limbs of fetuses during first-trimester abortions. During the first trimester, the fetus is, like, 3 inches long at most. How would you even manage the limb-pulling-off? Very strong tweezers?
Mom of 4 boys — I think I have BINGO.
This was a really tough call for me. Posting a rant about the Feministe logo on a thread discussing sex trafficking struck me as amazingly inappropriate and therefore trollish, but Quiverfull’s post was so full of WTF that I almost felt obligated to vote for her. But in the end I had to go with S. Decorum is key.
Several commenters suspect that Mom-of-4-Boys is a fundamentalist man masquerading as a woman, but I wouldn’t assume that so quickly. Quiverfull women hold some pretty backwards ideas, and if you need confirmation, read Kathryn Joyce’s book, QUIVERFULL: INSIDE THE CHRISTIAN PATRIARCHY MOVEMENT.
I don’t actually think Mom of 4 is a troll. I fully believe that she is a sincere and typical Quiverfull mom. But I loved her comment because it was such a great (and unintentionally humorous) articulation of the Quiverfull mindset.
I loved the line that using birth control is the same as shaking your fist at God’s blessings! (Basically, not only is childbearing mandated but you better damn well like it!)
Also loved the line: “I am a former feminist . . . I thought most men were bad.” COMEDY GOLD!!!
Also: “I would much rather spend my time serving my family then serving my boss.” Clearly the thought of a woman actually BEING the boss never crossed her mind.
But, although I am voting for her, I am not sure she should be mocked. I think more of these women than we realize eventually understand that embracing the Quiverfull lifestyle and belief system is a big mistake. I worry about Mom of 4 and I hope she keeps visiting feminist blogs for an alternative viewpoint.
I agreee with Mom of 4 that Eve was the first feminist. I love Eve! She gets a bad rap, but without her, we would still be bored out of our minds in the Garden of Eden.
I have a question and comment about the picture chosen as header for this thread. It’s a prim, Victorian girl reading a book–a clever contrast with the gun-toting girl of Feministe’s overall header, and likely chosen because it visually conveys the version of femininity that these trolls idealize. But: was the Victorian girl chosen before, or after, the shooting at the Holocaust museum? I’m assuming BEFORE, so there’s an amazing coincidence that y’all might be unaware of: That very same yellow girl is featured in one of the paintings of the holocaust museum shooter, white supremacist James Von Brunn. It seems to be the main painting that the media is showing that he did. You can see the full painting here: http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2009/06/painting.jpg
You can see that Von Brunn, like his idol, Adolf Hitler, is an “artist” who is horrified at the prospect of “degenerate art,” as represented by the cubist women-with-book behind the Victorian girl with book in Von Brunn’s simplistic juxtaposition. Anyway, I thought the image choice was a pretty amusing coincidence. What’s no coincidence is the way these white supremacist groups support an image of femininity so similar to the image of femininity that wingnuts and fundies support, in which (as Quiverfull woman inadvertently explains) freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength, and war is peace.
(Oh, and I disagree with Quiverfull woman–Eve wasn’t the first feminist, Lilith was!)
Silent Scream reference FTW.
I think Mom of 4 is a copy-paste job from either FreeRepublic or some antifeminist blog. I can’t help but think I read it before, somewhere. Still, she wins over the first troll.
“Eve just wanted to know shit.”
“CP says:
I dunno–I think S may deserve an honest reply. Mom of 4, on the other hand, is totally nuts.”
I agree with CP, S certainly does deserve a response, and i don’t think s/he was trolling. What i read in that comment is a version of cultural feminism that embraces gender differences by celebrating traditionally and conventionally feminine pursuits. Though most of us may not agree with it, there’s something to be said for accepting alternative forms of feminism. I don’t necessarily see a troll there.
Mom of 4 Boys, definitely.
There’s the code phrase: “I am a former feminist.” Translated, I think it means, “I read a book on feminism once, so I can claim to be a former feminist and weave it into my ‘arguments’ as if it makes me some kind of authority on feminism.”
And the old crap about feminists hating men…a classic of distorted thinking.
Also–what’s this about her husband bein’ “sweet”?! Real men ain’t sweet–thet’s just fer them sissy liberal pansies! Wouldja ever say The Duke was “sweet”? Or Dirty Harry? Jeez, what’s this country comin’ to…?
The answer is God! How could I ever forget? Quick ladies, we can all be cured of our feminist ways IF ONLY WE CAN PUT FAITH IN GOD OH WON’T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN.
Mom of 4 Boys hands down, for claiming that God cured her of feminism, for equating feminism with original sin, for refusing to have an identity of her own, and for her general “wrongness” with the abortion facts. God help us all.
Mom of 4 Boys. Nothin’ like a good conversion story! Plus, the whole “shaking your fist at god” thing made me snicker.
“Mom,” no contest.
She had me at “My sweet husband and I are quiverfull…”
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