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	<title>Comments on: Group of Teenagers Attacks Trans Woman in Seattle</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/06/13/group-of-teenagers-attacks-trans-woman-in-seattle/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/06/13/group-of-teenagers-attacks-trans-woman-in-seattle/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:11:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Monday Links &#171; Women&#8217;s Glib</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/06/13/group-of-teenagers-attacks-trans-woman-in-seattle/#comment-246952</link>
		<dc:creator>Monday Links &#171; Women&#8217;s Glib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13936#comment-246952</guid>
		<description>[...] on the social forces of bigotry that drive kids as young as thirteen to commit hate [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on the social forces of bigotry that drive kids as young as thirteen to commit hate [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ali</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/06/13/group-of-teenagers-attacks-trans-woman-in-seattle/#comment-246224</link>
		<dc:creator>Ali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13936#comment-246224</guid>
		<description>Here, Ol&#039;Froth, let me google that &lt;a href=&quot;http://lmgtfy.com/?q=trans+101&quot; title=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;for&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://lmgtfy.com/?q=trans+respect&quot; title=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;you&lt;/a&gt;.

And if you really wanted to be an ally, you would make the effort to do at least &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; research on your own. Not make demands on the oppressed to educate you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here, Ol&#8217;Froth, let me google that <a href="http://lmgtfy.com/?q=trans+101" title="" rel="nofollow">for</a> <a href="http://lmgtfy.com/?q=trans+respect" title="" rel="nofollow">you</a>.</p>
<p>And if you really wanted to be an ally, you would make the effort to do at least <i>some</i> research on your own. Not make demands on the oppressed to educate you.</p>
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		<title>By: girl.trouble</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/06/13/group-of-teenagers-attacks-trans-woman-in-seattle/#comment-246146</link>
		<dc:creator>girl.trouble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13936#comment-246146</guid>
		<description>froth, i think you are being a bit pollyannaish in this affair. i&#039;m transgendered and have had plenty of run-ins with the SPD. like quite a few t-girls in this city, i&#039;m a skater, and the gender that the officer uses in a report is very much up to their discretion.  further, i have had a few officers who treat me with the respect i they show anyone, and many others who go out of their way to harass and even try to injure me. 

this idea that there is too much emphasis on the officer and the reporter&#039;s commentary, is, i&#039;m afraid, ridiculous. both are supposed to be impartial parties, who are charged with the protecting and educating the public. if they are biased, then how can i, a vulnerable, minority in seattle expect them to come to my aid? how can i be sure that they will protect and serve me? no, cara&#039;s comments were not only astute, but important. these little things, these comments contribute to a greater view of transpeople being less than. less than worthy, less than human, and so on. it is no accident that the teen who attacked the transexual woman resorted to stereotyping in, i assume, an attempt to elicit the sympathies of the police officer. male identity is challenged by the very presence of transwomen, to think that the pronoun usage is irrelivant is to miss the undercurrent, and the motives of those involved. these things MUST be examined.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>froth, i think you are being a bit pollyannaish in this affair. i&#8217;m transgendered and have had plenty of run-ins with the SPD. like quite a few t-girls in this city, i&#8217;m a skater, and the gender that the officer uses in a report is very much up to their discretion.  further, i have had a few officers who treat me with the respect i they show anyone, and many others who go out of their way to harass and even try to injure me. </p>
<p>this idea that there is too much emphasis on the officer and the reporter&#8217;s commentary, is, i&#8217;m afraid, ridiculous. both are supposed to be impartial parties, who are charged with the protecting and educating the public. if they are biased, then how can i, a vulnerable, minority in seattle expect them to come to my aid? how can i be sure that they will protect and serve me? no, cara&#8217;s comments were not only astute, but important. these little things, these comments contribute to a greater view of transpeople being less than. less than worthy, less than human, and so on. it is no accident that the teen who attacked the transexual woman resorted to stereotyping in, i assume, an attempt to elicit the sympathies of the police officer. male identity is challenged by the very presence of transwomen, to think that the pronoun usage is irrelivant is to miss the undercurrent, and the motives of those involved. these things MUST be examined.</p>
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		<title>By: Ol'Froth</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/06/13/group-of-teenagers-attacks-trans-woman-in-seattle/#comment-246134</link>
		<dc:creator>Ol'Froth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 22:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13936#comment-246134</guid>
		<description>Nothing at all Ali, but I think far too much emphasis is being placed on the officer who properly took the report.  The criminals here are the actors who attacked this victim, and I want to see those people brought to justice for a vicious crime. And I read the first linked article and it is ambigous at best.  Given that, what is SPD&#039;s policy on describing transgendered persons?  If the officer followed policy, LAY OFF!  If not, then the criticism is valid, and direct outrage at those who set the policy, not those who are following directions.  I am the first to admit that there are huge problems in how we interact with the public, and I am a liberal.  I take a huge amount of shit from my more conservative colleagues, but guess what?  I am their boss, and they follow my lead if I can frame the situation in a manner that appeals to their genuine patriotic/conservative ethos!  PLEASE!!!! HELP ME HELP YOU!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing at all Ali, but I think far too much emphasis is being placed on the officer who properly took the report.  The criminals here are the actors who attacked this victim, and I want to see those people brought to justice for a vicious crime. And I read the first linked article and it is ambigous at best.  Given that, what is SPD&#8217;s policy on describing transgendered persons?  If the officer followed policy, LAY OFF!  If not, then the criticism is valid, and direct outrage at those who set the policy, not those who are following directions.  I am the first to admit that there are huge problems in how we interact with the public, and I am a liberal.  I take a huge amount of shit from my more conservative colleagues, but guess what?  I am their boss, and they follow my lead if I can frame the situation in a manner that appeals to their genuine patriotic/conservative ethos!  PLEASE!!!! HELP ME HELP YOU!</p>
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		<title>By: Ali</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/06/13/group-of-teenagers-attacks-trans-woman-in-seattle/#comment-246129</link>
		<dc:creator>Ali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13936#comment-246129</guid>
		<description>Ol&#039;Froth, 
&lt;blockquote&gt;The person, who told police she is in the process of changing her name and appearance to a woman&lt;/blockquote&gt;
From the 1st linked article the Cara quoted above. Looks to me that she identified as female and told the officers such.

And what does being a man have to do with admitting when you are wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ol&#8217;Froth, </p>
<blockquote><p>The person, who told police she is in the process of changing her name and appearance to a woman</p></blockquote>
<p>From the 1st linked article the Cara quoted above. Looks to me that she identified as female and told the officers such.</p>
<p>And what does being a man have to do with admitting when you are wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: Ol'Froth</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/06/13/group-of-teenagers-attacks-trans-woman-in-seattle/#comment-246128</link>
		<dc:creator>Ol'Froth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13936#comment-246128</guid>
		<description>On further review.....

There is nothing NOTHING in the links provided or the comments that indicates that this officer did anything wrong.  The victim was interviewed, the actor identified, and the appropriate charges filed, including the all important hate crime charge.  There is nothing indicating that the victim identified as female, and that the officer deliberatly ignored that. Please, if I&#039;m wrong in that assesment, give me a link! I am man enough to admit when I&#039;m wrong, but it looks like that this police officer did his job, identified the actor, filed the appropriate charges, and you are signalling him out for incorrect pronoun usage!

As a police officer, I am the first to admit that training in interacting with the transgendered/gay community is seriously lacking, but that should start to improve.  As a liberal, I want information on how to further improve interactions with oppressed segments of the population.  As a front line supervisor, I am in a position to suggest ideas to the guys in charge, and educate the officers in my charge on how to properly interact.  Throw me a bone here, help me help you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On further review&#8230;..</p>
<p>There is nothing NOTHING in the links provided or the comments that indicates that this officer did anything wrong.  The victim was interviewed, the actor identified, and the appropriate charges filed, including the all important hate crime charge.  There is nothing indicating that the victim identified as female, and that the officer deliberatly ignored that. Please, if I&#8217;m wrong in that assesment, give me a link! I am man enough to admit when I&#8217;m wrong, but it looks like that this police officer did his job, identified the actor, filed the appropriate charges, and you are signalling him out for incorrect pronoun usage!</p>
<p>As a police officer, I am the first to admit that training in interacting with the transgendered/gay community is seriously lacking, but that should start to improve.  As a liberal, I want information on how to further improve interactions with oppressed segments of the population.  As a front line supervisor, I am in a position to suggest ideas to the guys in charge, and educate the officers in my charge on how to properly interact.  Throw me a bone here, help me help you!</p>
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		<title>By: kaninchen</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/06/13/group-of-teenagers-attacks-trans-woman-in-seattle/#comment-246104</link>
		<dc:creator>kaninchen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13936#comment-246104</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Violence doesn’t happen in a vacuum.  Bigotry doesn’t happen in a vacuum.  And kids don’t learn how to hate out of thin air.&lt;/i&gt;

Fuck yes.  People say &quot;kids are cruel,&quot; but children &lt;em&gt;learn&lt;/em&gt; cruelty and hate.  Children who see the people in their lives solving problems with violence learn that &quot;violence never solves anything&quot; is a lie.  Some will have to work hard to unlearn hate and violence; others won&#039;t bother.

For all that this is depressing as hell and makes me realise just how lucky I am that my face and body match my stated gender pretty well, I&#039;m glad for people like you and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.womanist-musings.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Renee&lt;/a&gt; who keep an eye out and spread the word.  Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Violence doesn’t happen in a vacuum.  Bigotry doesn’t happen in a vacuum.  And kids don’t learn how to hate out of thin air.</i></p>
<p>Fuck yes.  People say &#8220;kids are cruel,&#8221; but children <em>learn</em> cruelty and hate.  Children who see the people in their lives solving problems with violence learn that &#8220;violence never solves anything&#8221; is a lie.  Some will have to work hard to unlearn hate and violence; others won&#8217;t bother.</p>
<p>For all that this is depressing as hell and makes me realise just how lucky I am that my face and body match my stated gender pretty well, I&#8217;m glad for people like you and <a href="http://www.womanist-musings.com/" rel="nofollow">Renee</a> who keep an eye out and spread the word.  Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurie in Mpls.</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/06/13/group-of-teenagers-attacks-trans-woman-in-seattle/#comment-246100</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurie in Mpls.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13936#comment-246100</guid>
		<description>Cara:
Your last paragraph.  Yes.  Exactly.  And so beautifully put.  I may need to borrow it on occasion (with appropriate credit, of course.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cara:<br />
Your last paragraph.  Yes.  Exactly.  And so beautifully put.  I may need to borrow it on occasion (with appropriate credit, of course.)</p>
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		<title>By: Ol'Froth</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/06/13/group-of-teenagers-attacks-trans-woman-in-seattle/#comment-246093</link>
		<dc:creator>Ol'Froth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13936#comment-246093</guid>
		<description>Ahh, I missed the part where she identifies herself as a woman.  My bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh, I missed the part where she identifies herself as a woman.  My bad.</p>
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		<title>By: Cara</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/06/13/group-of-teenagers-attacks-trans-woman-in-seattle/#comment-246085</link>
		<dc:creator>Cara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13936#comment-246085</guid>
		<description>Ol&#039;Froth -- of course there should be training.  But:

1. Ignorance is not an excuse.  Never is.

2. When a person is in front of you describing herself as a woman, it exceedingly easy to figure out which pronouns that person would like you to use.  No one has problems calling me &quot;she&quot; when I tell them that I am a woman.  When the person doing so is trans instead of cis, it should make absolutely no difference.  The officer made the active choice to ignore the fact that the victim was identifying herself as a woman.  Period.  Which means that yes, he did deliberately misgender her.  He &lt;i&gt;knew&lt;/i&gt; better, because as it even &lt;i&gt;says&lt;/i&gt; in the police report, she &lt;i&gt;told&lt;/i&gt; him better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ol&#8217;Froth &#8212; of course there should be training.  But:</p>
<p>1. Ignorance is not an excuse.  Never is.</p>
<p>2. When a person is in front of you describing herself as a woman, it exceedingly easy to figure out which pronouns that person would like you to use.  No one has problems calling me &#8220;she&#8221; when I tell them that I am a woman.  When the person doing so is trans instead of cis, it should make absolutely no difference.  The officer made the active choice to ignore the fact that the victim was identifying herself as a woman.  Period.  Which means that yes, he did deliberately misgender her.  He <i>knew</i> better, because as it even <i>says</i> in the police report, she <i>told</i> him better.</p>
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