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	<title>Comments on: Perfect</title>
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	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/07/perfect/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:12:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: you have no right &#171; a shiny new coin</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/07/perfect/#comment-281529</link>
		<dc:creator>you have no right &#171; a shiny new coin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 03:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14314#comment-281529</guid>
		<description>[...] Writing this post I can only know how I feel from the privileged position of being a white, cis, TAB woman, and there is a certain unearned safety in that. I can&#8217;t fully understand how the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Writing this post I can only know how I feel from the privileged position of being a white, cis, TAB woman, and there is a certain unearned safety in that. I can&#8217;t fully understand how the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mykell</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/07/perfect/#comment-272000</link>
		<dc:creator>Mykell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14314#comment-272000</guid>
		<description>&quot;Temporarily non-disabled&quot; is a mouthful that will never catch on. &quot;TND&quot; will just confuse the heck out of people and will never catch on.

I think &quot;abled&quot; is the best of the options you&#039;ve laid out. It doesn&#039;t imply that any way to be is better or worse than another. It doesn&#039;t make any form of ability or disability invisible. It&#039;s short.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Temporarily non-disabled&#8221; is a mouthful that will never catch on. &#8220;TND&#8221; will just confuse the heck out of people and will never catch on.</p>
<p>I think &#8220;abled&#8221; is the best of the options you&#8217;ve laid out. It doesn&#8217;t imply that any way to be is better or worse than another. It doesn&#8217;t make any form of ability or disability invisible. It&#8217;s short.</p>
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		<title>By: three rivers fog &#187; Disability Is&#8230;?</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/07/perfect/#comment-251949</link>
		<dc:creator>three rivers fog &#187; Disability Is&#8230;?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14314#comment-251949</guid>
		<description>[...] had a really good discussion about nondisability. It got derailed, a bit, because it depended on our ability to reasonably [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] had a really good discussion about nondisability. It got derailed, a bit, because it depended on our ability to reasonably [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Does It Really Cost To Employ My Fat Ass? Or Does It Pay? (And Who Cares?) &#171; fat fu</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/07/perfect/#comment-251528</link>
		<dc:creator>Does It Really Cost To Employ My Fat Ass? Or Does It Pay? (And Who Cares?) &#171; fat fu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 09:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14314#comment-251528</guid>
		<description>[...] and training new people is costly. And thin, young, conventionally attractive, well educated, currently able people aren&#8217;t going to accept nearly as much shit from management as fatties (and older [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and training new people is costly. And thin, young, conventionally attractive, well educated, currently able people aren&#8217;t going to accept nearly as much shit from management as fatties (and older [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Labels &#171; Women&#8217;s Glib</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/07/perfect/#comment-251346</link>
		<dc:creator>Labels &#171; Women&#8217;s Glib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14314#comment-251346</guid>
		<description>[...] inclusive movement. This is probably because I&#8217;m very privileged, as women go &#8212; cis, currently able, thin, middle-class, white &#8212; and my first introductions to contemporary feminism were [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] inclusive movement. This is probably because I&#8217;m very privileged, as women go &#8212; cis, currently able, thin, middle-class, white &#8212; and my first introductions to contemporary feminism were [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eghead</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/07/perfect/#comment-251105</link>
		<dc:creator>Eghead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 02:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14314#comment-251105</guid>
		<description>Reading this list of possible terms, I find it very hard to figure out where I fit in.  I&#039;m sure there are plenty of other people out there who are wondering just when and how they classify as disabled or not...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading this list of possible terms, I find it very hard to figure out where I fit in.  I&#8217;m sure there are plenty of other people out there who are wondering just when and how they classify as disabled or not&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: shah8</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/07/perfect/#comment-250622</link>
		<dc:creator>shah8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14314#comment-250622</guid>
		<description>Given &lt;em&gt;why&lt;/em&gt; people desire to be pratronizing, I doubt we&#039;d ever see a widely used term that is at least neutral.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given <em>why</em> people desire to be pratronizing, I doubt we&#8217;d ever see a widely used term that is at least neutral.</p>
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		<title>By: amandaw</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/07/perfect/#comment-250615</link>
		<dc:creator>amandaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14314#comment-250615</guid>
		<description>This may be affected by my youth, but to me, &quot;handicapped&quot; is just not a word I identify with. I only ever hear it used in reference to accessible parking spaces anymore; the occasional person uses it in reference to a person. I&#039;ve not heard it used as a slur, exactly... it&#039;s just mildly uncomfortable. I don&#039;t know how else to explain it.

There is considerable diversity in how disabled people choose to refer to themselves; interacting with particularly low-income folk I tend to hear &quot;handicap&quot; a bit more. I never hear differently-abled, or anything-challenged (I&#039;ve only ever heard that used as a sly way to insult without directly insulting) and so forth. The simpler the term the more people seem to accept it as an &lt;i&gt;identity&lt;/i&gt;.

That said, when trying to find terminology for the non-marked/dominant group, there isn&#039;t as much of a concern whether there is a strong sense of identity with that term by those people. (That isn&#039;t to say there&#039;s *no* concern. It&#039;s just not primary.) I think it is a slightly different conversation.

Also, I get the sense that disabled folk identify a lot more with a term when other people use it in a neutral-or-positive, affirmative sense -- rather than a patronizing sense. And we can almost always tell the difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This may be affected by my youth, but to me, &#8220;handicapped&#8221; is just not a word I identify with. I only ever hear it used in reference to accessible parking spaces anymore; the occasional person uses it in reference to a person. I&#8217;ve not heard it used as a slur, exactly&#8230; it&#8217;s just mildly uncomfortable. I don&#8217;t know how else to explain it.</p>
<p>There is considerable diversity in how disabled people choose to refer to themselves; interacting with particularly low-income folk I tend to hear &#8220;handicap&#8221; a bit more. I never hear differently-abled, or anything-challenged (I&#8217;ve only ever heard that used as a sly way to insult without directly insulting) and so forth. The simpler the term the more people seem to accept it as an <i>identity</i>.</p>
<p>That said, when trying to find terminology for the non-marked/dominant group, there isn&#8217;t as much of a concern whether there is a strong sense of identity with that term by those people. (That isn&#8217;t to say there&#8217;s *no* concern. It&#8217;s just not primary.) I think it is a slightly different conversation.</p>
<p>Also, I get the sense that disabled folk identify a lot more with a term when other people use it in a neutral-or-positive, affirmative sense &#8212; rather than a patronizing sense. And we can almost always tell the difference.</p>
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		<title>By: Ursula L</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/07/perfect/#comment-250596</link>
		<dc:creator>Ursula L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:41:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14314#comment-250596</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Did “handicapped” go the way of “oriental”, “black”, “negro” “retarded” and “spastic”? They were all technically correct, but came to be insults.&lt;/i&gt;

Pretty much, yes.

I did a paper for a college class on the history of disease, at one point, where I tracked laws relating to the mentally ill and developmentally disabled, in England.   Went all the way back to the 1500s.  And you saw much of the same issue, with older/known terms becoming perjorative as the general public became comfortable with them, and the people who cared about the issue developing newer terms that would not be perjorative.  Both &quot;moron&quot; and &quot;idiot&quot; were new non-insulting alternative terms, at one point. 

Playing with terms helps in the short term, and in particular it helps the people who are actually involved in the cause keep it at the front of their mind that the people they care about are people and not to be insulted.  

It&#039;s less effective at changing the way the public thinks, to just play with the words, as the tendancy is to just equate  the new  term with the old now-insulting term.  

What seems to have done the most good in recent times are laws requiring that public schools educated the disabled, and that this education include as much participation in the regular classroom as is possible.  And other laws, requiring employers to make reasonable accomidations for employment, and that people who need physical assistance with daily life tasks be able to get that help coming into their own home, rather than having to go live in an institution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Did “handicapped” go the way of “oriental”, “black”, “negro” “retarded” and “spastic”? They were all technically correct, but came to be insults.</i></p>
<p>Pretty much, yes.</p>
<p>I did a paper for a college class on the history of disease, at one point, where I tracked laws relating to the mentally ill and developmentally disabled, in England.   Went all the way back to the 1500s.  And you saw much of the same issue, with older/known terms becoming perjorative as the general public became comfortable with them, and the people who cared about the issue developing newer terms that would not be perjorative.  Both &#8220;moron&#8221; and &#8220;idiot&#8221; were new non-insulting alternative terms, at one point. </p>
<p>Playing with terms helps in the short term, and in particular it helps the people who are actually involved in the cause keep it at the front of their mind that the people they care about are people and not to be insulted.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s less effective at changing the way the public thinks, to just play with the words, as the tendancy is to just equate  the new  term with the old now-insulting term.  </p>
<p>What seems to have done the most good in recent times are laws requiring that public schools educated the disabled, and that this education include as much participation in the regular classroom as is possible.  And other laws, requiring employers to make reasonable accomidations for employment, and that people who need physical assistance with daily life tasks be able to get that help coming into their own home, rather than having to go live in an institution.</p>
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		<title>By: katrina</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/07/perfect/#comment-250456</link>
		<dc:creator>katrina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14314#comment-250456</guid>
		<description>&quot;Temporarily non-disabled&quot; and &quot;currently non-disabled&quot; are pretty long and clunky if you&#039;re trying to find a convenient handle for use in a complex discussion of the issues. Of course, you can reduce it to an acronym, but then it&#039;s only intelligible to the initiated.

&quot;Disabled&quot; is a difficult starting point, being a word with a prefix added. I&#039;ve been thinking about this overnight and wondering when everyone stopped using &quot;handicapped&quot; in English. To me it seems more descriptive and less dismissive than &quot;disabled&quot;. It doesn&#039;t have other, harsher meanings the way &quot;disabled&quot; does when applied to machines. And handicaps can come and go.

Did &quot;handicapped&quot; go the way of &quot;oriental&quot;, &quot;black&quot;, &quot;negro&quot; &quot;retarded&quot; and &quot;spastic&quot;?  They were all technically correct, but came to be insults. Is that why people are suggesting such long descriptions? &quot;Retarded&quot; is now &quot;developmentally delayed&quot;, and you sure don&#039;t hear kids yelling that at each other in the playground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Temporarily non-disabled&#8221; and &#8220;currently non-disabled&#8221; are pretty long and clunky if you&#8217;re trying to find a convenient handle for use in a complex discussion of the issues. Of course, you can reduce it to an acronym, but then it&#8217;s only intelligible to the initiated.</p>
<p>&#8220;Disabled&#8221; is a difficult starting point, being a word with a prefix added. I&#8217;ve been thinking about this overnight and wondering when everyone stopped using &#8220;handicapped&#8221; in English. To me it seems more descriptive and less dismissive than &#8220;disabled&#8221;. It doesn&#8217;t have other, harsher meanings the way &#8220;disabled&#8221; does when applied to machines. And handicaps can come and go.</p>
<p>Did &#8220;handicapped&#8221; go the way of &#8220;oriental&#8221;, &#8220;black&#8221;, &#8220;negro&#8221; &#8220;retarded&#8221; and &#8220;spastic&#8221;?  They were all technically correct, but came to be insults. Is that why people are suggesting such long descriptions? &#8220;Retarded&#8221; is now &#8220;developmentally delayed&#8221;, and you sure don&#8217;t hear kids yelling that at each other in the playground.</p>
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