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	<title>Comments on: The Hammering</title>
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	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/15/the-hammering/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:12:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: The Abyss</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/15/the-hammering/#comment-257196</link>
		<dc:creator>The Abyss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14563#comment-257196</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t care what people say: race issues have not and will never go away. It&#039;s what built America. Some people have managed to get past the injustices of slavery, but the mentality of privilege is a hard thing to escape. And maybe they dont even know it. Or don&#039;t even care. I went to grad school with this white girl whose initials were KKK, mind you. She feigned to be the most inclusive, nonjudgmental person ever, but after about four or five months, her true colors came out and she started making little side comments about blacks and hispanics. She&#039;d always follow it up with &quot;but I have black friends&quot;. White people always try to make themselves feel justified in saying what they say, or doing what they do, by having black friends. Whatever. White people need to wake up and realize that the world is bigger than just them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t care what people say: race issues have not and will never go away. It&#8217;s what built America. Some people have managed to get past the injustices of slavery, but the mentality of privilege is a hard thing to escape. And maybe they dont even know it. Or don&#8217;t even care. I went to grad school with this white girl whose initials were KKK, mind you. She feigned to be the most inclusive, nonjudgmental person ever, but after about four or five months, her true colors came out and she started making little side comments about blacks and hispanics. She&#8217;d always follow it up with &#8220;but I have black friends&#8221;. White people always try to make themselves feel justified in saying what they say, or doing what they do, by having black friends. Whatever. White people need to wake up and realize that the world is bigger than just them.</p>
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		<title>By: Quoted: Holly on Interpretation of Culture at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/15/the-hammering/#comment-253952</link>
		<dc:creator>Quoted: Holly on Interpretation of Culture at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14563#comment-253952</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8212;&#8221;The Hammering,&#8221; Feministe [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8212;&#8221;The Hammering,&#8221; Feministe [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mixed Chicks Chat</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/15/the-hammering/#comment-253668</link>
		<dc:creator>Mixed Chicks Chat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 04:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14563#comment-253668</guid>
		<description>Hey there - we are obviously are coming into this conversation late &amp; apologize for repeating something that may have already been commented.  We just wanted to let you know we&#039;ve created a forum to discuss these kinds of feeling - i.e. our consistently changing attitudes, as mixed race women, towards all that makes up who we are.  We don&#039;t know all that went into bringing you to the place you are for this particular situation, but we certainly can say that we have &#039;been there&#039; through different circumstances.  Would love to talk more about it if you&#039;re up for it. Perhaps you&#039;d be a guest on our podcast? - let us know &amp; we&#039;ll make it happen!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey there &#8211; we are obviously are coming into this conversation late &amp; apologize for repeating something that may have already been commented.  We just wanted to let you know we&#8217;ve created a forum to discuss these kinds of feeling &#8211; i.e. our consistently changing attitudes, as mixed race women, towards all that makes up who we are.  We don&#8217;t know all that went into bringing you to the place you are for this particular situation, but we certainly can say that we have &#8216;been there&#8217; through different circumstances.  Would love to talk more about it if you&#8217;re up for it. Perhaps you&#8217;d be a guest on our podcast? &#8211; let us know &amp; we&#8217;ll make it happen!</p>
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		<title>By: Bint Alshamsa Guest Posting at Feministe &#171; Questioning Transphobia</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/15/the-hammering/#comment-252659</link>
		<dc:creator>Bint Alshamsa Guest Posting at Feministe &#171; Questioning Transphobia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 04:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14563#comment-252659</guid>
		<description>[...] think both of these posts (and another she&#8217;s planning to write) are important. First this: I’m may end up regretting this, but I’ve come to feel that there’s really no way around it. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] think both of these posts (and another she&#8217;s planning to write) are important. First this: I’m may end up regretting this, but I’ve come to feel that there’s really no way around it. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: roofingbird</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/15/the-hammering/#comment-252604</link>
		<dc:creator>roofingbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 23:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14563#comment-252604</guid>
		<description>So, I guess to elucidate; there are different levels of isolation.

Red Shafted Flickers live in different parts of the country than Yellow Shafted Flickers. Geography separates them, but when they get together they produce more Flickers. 

You chose, bint, out of love and an open heart, to produce the equivalent of a beautiful new Orange Shafted Flicker. My family did the same. You choose now, to  mingle amongst all the fine plumage, as I, for the same reasons. 

Having chosen that another’s physicality did not matter, would we then racially separate ourselves from our neighbors? Some might hate another’s face in the neighborhood. You did not. I did not. Why then retrench and complain about it?

I watched TV for more than fifty years. If there was ever a mission to be admired it is that of “The Black Agenda’s” clarion leadership regarding the FCC and our current system of media ownership. This not just because of how 14% of the population is omitted, or displayed as stereotypes, but the 51% and the 30%, and the 5% and the others. It is also because of the 60%-70% of the population that is sequestered due to the inability to receive anything more than local news or dial up internet? Is it still “whiteness”? Or is it Big Brother arrived and masquerading as an old enemy?

TV currently represents oligarchy unhinged and triumphant. 

The Great Melting Pot does change cultures. However, it is we that choose to share. When we offer up ourselves to our new friends we are transformed as are the elements of our cultures, our food, music and bodies. All these things must change. We find the difference between us is far smaller than the commonality. Our reasons are not the same as those who rape and plunder. Yet the same permutation is accomplished. We can’t have it both ways, except as a memory of what was. 

Injustice abounds everywhere. if African American men are still incarcerated at a rate of six time to that of white and three times that of Hispanic men, we must do something about it. What we do might depend on how clearly we identify the elements of classism as well as racism. Making sure previously incarcerated men get their voting voice  back might be part of that.

White is not “whiteness”. 

Whiteness is a euphemism born out of a need to understand and classify. As long as we continue to use this shorthand term, we fail to trumpet the real evil’s names: institutional discrimination, classism, sexism, wealth disparity, injustice, unemployment, under-education,  Balkanization and loss of social networking, ignorance, fear,  and most of all, greed and power.

What to do?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege

[Zetzer also specifies the type of changes necessary to make progressive steps in dealing with white privilege and its implications. She notes that most people who become educated on white privilege undergo a first-order change in which they gain increased awareness, knowledge and skills. However, for progress to be made in equalizing problems such as white privilege, individuals need to undergo second-order change. Second-order change is characterized by a paradigm shift in which people use their awareness, knowledge and skills to take action. Zetzer believes the first, and easiest, way to initiate this transformation is through dialogue. Honest and multicultural dialogue is the first way to build alliances which can then “transform people and systems and turn intention into action,”[58] thus slowly changing the persistence of white privilege.]

How, then, can “white privilege” be surrendered,  and human equality gained, if not by access to each other? If we get tired in this dialogue, and need a little rest or reinforcement, so be it. There are other enemies far greater than you or I could ever be. We need our strength for those battles. However, we cannot stay in our safe little groups. Their safety is only an illusion anyway- a puff of time. Eventually we must walk next door and introduce ourselves our new neighbor, and start a dialogue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, I guess to elucidate; there are different levels of isolation.</p>
<p>Red Shafted Flickers live in different parts of the country than Yellow Shafted Flickers. Geography separates them, but when they get together they produce more Flickers. </p>
<p>You chose, bint, out of love and an open heart, to produce the equivalent of a beautiful new Orange Shafted Flicker. My family did the same. You choose now, to  mingle amongst all the fine plumage, as I, for the same reasons. </p>
<p>Having chosen that another’s physicality did not matter, would we then racially separate ourselves from our neighbors? Some might hate another’s face in the neighborhood. You did not. I did not. Why then retrench and complain about it?</p>
<p>I watched TV for more than fifty years. If there was ever a mission to be admired it is that of “The Black Agenda’s” clarion leadership regarding the FCC and our current system of media ownership. This not just because of how 14% of the population is omitted, or displayed as stereotypes, but the 51% and the 30%, and the 5% and the others. It is also because of the 60%-70% of the population that is sequestered due to the inability to receive anything more than local news or dial up internet? Is it still “whiteness”? Or is it Big Brother arrived and masquerading as an old enemy?</p>
<p>TV currently represents oligarchy unhinged and triumphant. </p>
<p>The Great Melting Pot does change cultures. However, it is we that choose to share. When we offer up ourselves to our new friends we are transformed as are the elements of our cultures, our food, music and bodies. All these things must change. We find the difference between us is far smaller than the commonality. Our reasons are not the same as those who rape and plunder. Yet the same permutation is accomplished. We can’t have it both ways, except as a memory of what was. </p>
<p>Injustice abounds everywhere. if African American men are still incarcerated at a rate of six time to that of white and three times that of Hispanic men, we must do something about it. What we do might depend on how clearly we identify the elements of classism as well as racism. Making sure previously incarcerated men get their voting voice  back might be part of that.</p>
<p>White is not “whiteness”. </p>
<p>Whiteness is a euphemism born out of a need to understand and classify. As long as we continue to use this shorthand term, we fail to trumpet the real evil’s names: institutional discrimination, classism, sexism, wealth disparity, injustice, unemployment, under-education,  Balkanization and loss of social networking, ignorance, fear,  and most of all, greed and power.</p>
<p>What to do?</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege</a></p>
<p>[Zetzer also specifies the type of changes necessary to make progressive steps in dealing with white privilege and its implications. She notes that most people who become educated on white privilege undergo a first-order change in which they gain increased awareness, knowledge and skills. However, for progress to be made in equalizing problems such as white privilege, individuals need to undergo second-order change. Second-order change is characterized by a paradigm shift in which people use their awareness, knowledge and skills to take action. Zetzer believes the first, and easiest, way to initiate this transformation is through dialogue. Honest and multicultural dialogue is the first way to build alliances which can then “transform people and systems and turn intention into action,”[58] thus slowly changing the persistence of white privilege.]</p>
<p>How, then, can “white privilege” be surrendered,  and human equality gained, if not by access to each other? If we get tired in this dialogue, and need a little rest or reinforcement, so be it. There are other enemies far greater than you or I could ever be. We need our strength for those battles. However, we cannot stay in our safe little groups. Their safety is only an illusion anyway- a puff of time. Eventually we must walk next door and introduce ourselves our new neighbor, and start a dialogue.</p>
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		<title>By: Holly</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/15/the-hammering/#comment-252568</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14563#comment-252568</guid>
		<description>Also, Kai: ugh, that post. Talk about a case in point -- full of well-meaning tourist aphorisms about how scary and conformist Japan is, plus a Japanese friend complimenting him and denigrating Japan (&quot;oh we don&#039;t have creative people&quot; -- and of course he takes it literally) and then he congratulates himself for being from a culture that prizes uniqueness. Man, I am going to barf, and not just because I am sick. Oh extra bonus prize: there&#039;s never been any women&#039;s movement in Japan! That&#039;s awesome. Erasing decades upon decades of Japanese feminism is TOTALLY AWESOME.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, Kai: ugh, that post. Talk about a case in point &#8212; full of well-meaning tourist aphorisms about how scary and conformist Japan is, plus a Japanese friend complimenting him and denigrating Japan (&#8220;oh we don&#8217;t have creative people&#8221; &#8212; and of course he takes it literally) and then he congratulates himself for being from a culture that prizes uniqueness. Man, I am going to barf, and not just because I am sick. Oh extra bonus prize: there&#8217;s never been any women&#8217;s movement in Japan! That&#8217;s awesome. Erasing decades upon decades of Japanese feminism is TOTALLY AWESOME.</p>
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		<title>By: Holly</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/15/the-hammering/#comment-252564</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14563#comment-252564</guid>
		<description>Hey Bint -- you can totally quote or do whatever you want with my comment. Sorry, tried to post this from my phone yesterday when I was sick in bed, but I guess it didn&#039;t go through. OK... still sick, so going back to bed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Bint &#8212; you can totally quote or do whatever you want with my comment. Sorry, tried to post this from my phone yesterday when I was sick in bed, but I guess it didn&#8217;t go through. OK&#8230; still sick, so going back to bed.</p>
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		<title>By: roofingbird</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/15/the-hammering/#comment-252544</link>
		<dc:creator>roofingbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14563#comment-252544</guid>
		<description>I think it’s a sliding scale of good to bad in group dynamics, no matter what culture, or nationality. Individuals will always opt in or out of the group based on their own cost, versus benefit tabulation.

If, as shah8 suggests, the “hammering” phrase is  an essentialization,  it is also a key, or a bread crumb on a trail into the Japanese culture. Even if it’s wrong, it has a use- to remind us that Japanese are a strong nation with a strong culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it’s a sliding scale of good to bad in group dynamics, no matter what culture, or nationality. Individuals will always opt in or out of the group based on their own cost, versus benefit tabulation.</p>
<p>If, as shah8 suggests, the “hammering” phrase is  an essentialization,  it is also a key, or a bread crumb on a trail into the Japanese culture. Even if it’s wrong, it has a use- to remind us that Japanese are a strong nation with a strong culture.</p>
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		<title>By: Chelsea</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/15/the-hammering/#comment-252543</link>
		<dc:creator>Chelsea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14563#comment-252543</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Bint&lt;/b&gt;, this post has given me a lot to think about (as has your Oppressor Within post).  Thanks for your writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Bint</b>, this post has given me a lot to think about (as has your Oppressor Within post).  Thanks for your writing.</p>
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		<title>By: roofingbird</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/07/15/the-hammering/#comment-252535</link>
		<dc:creator>roofingbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 17:45:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=14563#comment-252535</guid>
		<description>Yes- shah8 - A “pitch, or sell phrase”; a jingle if you will, that reminds us at every turn, Oh, this is how the Japanese think!

Holly’s comments reflect another point. That is we, as USAns’ cannot fully engage in the group dynamic of  which she speaks. it requires that everyone, or most in the group, have an understanding of Japanese culture. Following this scenario, we could do the anthropological tour perhaps, and involve ourselves in such a group, as an individual. However, we could not easily, untrained, transfer the Japanese group dynamics there. ( I believe we did attempt this commercially in late 80’s.)

Whether Japanese group behavior is in fact different, or not, I don’t know. We do have many examples where group behavior attempts to rule over individualism.

Think of how group behavior in gangs, like the Nortenos, operate in the US. The needs of the individual are subsumed for the good of the group. 

The Mennonites also come to mind, as do the group activities of the Warren Jeffs enclave.

Another simple example of group dynamics is Bint’s.  Two young women, through jealousy, fear, ignorance, pressure or whatever, feel the need to act out against another member. Do the the rest of the group come to the victim’s defense? Does the victim subsume her needs for the good of the group? what would be the Japanese answer and would it differ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes- shah8 &#8211; A “pitch, or sell phrase”; a jingle if you will, that reminds us at every turn, Oh, this is how the Japanese think!</p>
<p>Holly’s comments reflect another point. That is we, as USAns’ cannot fully engage in the group dynamic of  which she speaks. it requires that everyone, or most in the group, have an understanding of Japanese culture. Following this scenario, we could do the anthropological tour perhaps, and involve ourselves in such a group, as an individual. However, we could not easily, untrained, transfer the Japanese group dynamics there. ( I believe we did attempt this commercially in late 80’s.)</p>
<p>Whether Japanese group behavior is in fact different, or not, I don’t know. We do have many examples where group behavior attempts to rule over individualism.</p>
<p>Think of how group behavior in gangs, like the Nortenos, operate in the US. The needs of the individual are subsumed for the good of the group. </p>
<p>The Mennonites also come to mind, as do the group activities of the Warren Jeffs enclave.</p>
<p>Another simple example of group dynamics is Bint’s.  Two young women, through jealousy, fear, ignorance, pressure or whatever, feel the need to act out against another member. Do the the rest of the group come to the victim’s defense? Does the victim subsume her needs for the good of the group? what would be the Japanese answer and would it differ?</p>
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