I think I am both innocent and guilty of what you describe at the same time! But I’d be 100% fine with a female leader and no, I don’t talk penis all day. Nice post! :)

I know it is a running theme in WoW that women are dangerous to guild solidarity–a bit like pirates really, “women are bad luck, yarr.” Most of the pubescent/anonymous/socially-isolated males adore a woman who speaks to them like a human. If she wants to take power she can, and with an inordinate amount of ease.

re: how to respond to “Yes, but I don’t want men and women to be the same.”

(See, this is why I became a feminist so early, because illogical shit like this drove me crazy)

The best tactic I’ve found is to point out the lack of logic. (Course, I still never know what to say most times when people say stuff like that offline and you have to answer right away…)

If had been in your shoes (but had a pause button so I could think about it and then speak :) ) I would have asked your mom what one has to do with the other. I’d ask her how in the world expecting boys to act like good sports (or men to act like adults, jesus christ) has fuck all* to do with men and women being the same or not or whatever. And when she has nothing to say to that or simply goes on about boys just being better at certain things**, I’d ask why “men and women not being the same” always seems to translate into men being better at certain things. When she starts talking about there being things women are better at too, ask her why it is that the things women are better at tend to come with less power and pay than the things that men are better at.

This is also a good time to point out that while women do the bulk of the cooking worldwide, men are more likely to be chefs. Which neatly punches holes in the twin ideas that men and women simply have a discrete set onf innate skills and that men’s skills just happen to be of the flashier variety. It might not be a bad idea to also point out that, despite all their talk of “mom’s recipes,” a great number of these male chefs are just as likely to act like spoiled brats as the defeated gamerbois when faced with competent women – er, that’s what I’ve heard anyway.

And I know you were asking about both parents, but I would concentrate on your mom as much as possible (unless she’s the less progressive of the two, in which case, focus on your dad first). Dealing with both parents at once is really hard, it’s easier to deal with them one at a time. Also, if you get one to listen to you, they may help you tag team the other one later. Often without meaning to – they are your parents and love you (or at least it sounds like they do) and once they see your side, parents often get really defensive in your favor when they think the other parent is picking on you or telling you that you are less than you are.

No matter what, though, avoid any language that may suggest that you think that the things that women are traditionally considered to be better at actually are less important, etc. This is tricky, as you do want to point out that society values these things less; you just need to make sure that however you say that, you are also making it very clear that you don’t agree. Language like that – language that implies that your mom is stuck doing crap that is of no value – means that your parents will hear you as disrespecting your mom and her choices, which – aside from not winning you any points – will cause them to get defensive and angry and not listen to anything you say.

I can’t promise my advice will help, but when I have been able to ‘win” conversations like this, it’s when I’ve managed to do most of what I just said.

*ok, I wouldn’t say fuck – not to your mom ;)

**and this probably the general direction she will go in because this is what people usually mean when they say that men and women are different. Also, if she immediately starts talking about boys being better at video games specifically, jump straight to the bits about power and pay.

To answer your question, I suggest developing a finely tuned level of sarcasm. Not mean or angry (don’t want to appear “hysterical”) or too preachy (you’ve run into what people think of that), just rude and condescending. And don’t try to convince them of a truth, make fun of them for not knowing the truth….far more effective as a teaching tool…