A new poll shows that 62% of Republicans think that government should “stay out of Medicare.”
I admit that I snickered at first. Quite heartily, in fact. So I certainly can’t hold it against anyone for doing the same.
But then I remembered that this kind of ignorance — which isn’t exclusive to Republicans, as 24% of Democrats and 31% of independents answered the same way — is precisely the reason why I’m so concerned that when this is all said and done, I’m still not going to have health care, and neither will millions of other Americans, including many who need it a lot more badly than I do.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA this health care debate will kill me yet!
i totally agree – the ability of the GOP to create totally false talking points (it will provide care for undocumented immigrants and kill your grandmother and pay for mandatory abortions!!!) to get traction with people is terrifying. it seems to be some unholy combination of people willing to believe the worst and people willing to lie about the worst.
I had to read this several times before I understood that it shows that they refuse to acknowledge that Medicare IS government.
This is so incredibly frustrating. A family member told me that health care reform will just be abused by poor people. She told about a mother with no health care, who took her sick son to the ER and he only had a stomach ache, and she WASTED $900 with that visit- see proof that poor people just ruin everything. I tried to explain that if she had insurance and could schedule a much cheaper appointment with a doctor, rather than turning to her last resort of an ER visit, there would be no waste- see this proves we NEED health care reform. They told me I was blinded by Obama and wanted to turn our country over to the Chinese.
It makes me cry how people who insist they are their brother’s keeper turn away when it really matters.
6% think Hawaii is NOT a part of the United States.
We’re doomed.
Oh gawd– I watched a segment from Fox News a few days ago (chill out, it was playing very loudly in the Taco Bell where my bf and I were eating during a road trip, INCREDIBLY distracting…) and the absolute ignorance and blind hatred that was spewing out of the tv at me was absolutely astounding– (of course) the only issue under attack when I was watching was healthcare. Up until recently I guess I was unaware of how bitter the right-wingers are about not having the white house or the public majority anymore–I live in a campus town and have surrounded myself with “dirty hippie liberal socialist punks” like me (lol, as my mother calls us), I make it a point to keep away from the conservatives around here.
I guess the point is that I fail to understand how an entire party can want to take away not only my right to healthcare but also my life (I am a woman with HPV who currently cannot get the tests I need to check on my status due to my insurance refusing to cover my expenses– if you really want to get technical, I could have cancer and not even know it) simply because 1) they are too set in their ways to see that their beliefs impractical and will only serve a very small portion of the population and 2) they don’t realize that this decision will actually be a life and death decision for a vast majority of American people. I’m not usually an angry person but GODDAMN… I BLAME FOX NEWS!!!!! (Go MSNBC!)
Okay. Not exactly sure if there was a point to be made there but I guess I needed to get that off my chest more than anything.
To be fair, that question was formulated to make people look stupid, which I think is kind of mean. Or else, the folks who created the poll are total dumbasses. The poll was automated, and the only possible answers to that question were yes, no, and unsure. So, you either hang up the phone or you pick an answer that makes no logical sense. How is that useful?
It may indeed be arguable that there is more than one way to take the question, but I’m scratching my head at the assertion that the answer “no” does not make any sense. It would be my answer, were I taking that poll: “No. Obviously. It’s a government program, how can government stay out of a government program? WTF.” Which would, of course, translate to pushing 2 for “No.”
The question was “Do you think the government should stay out of Medicare?” The use of the word say implies that the government is not already involved in Medicare, which is obviously ridiculous. Answering “no” may seem like the logical answer, but it would mean that you think the government should not stay out of Medicare. In other words, it would mean that you think the government should get involved in Medicare. It already is involved, so the entire question is nonsensical.
I’ll just add that I realize that I may be thinking about this a little too hard, but it’s been bugging the crap out of me all day.
I agree with Shelly. My first impression was that there was no logical way to answer this. It’d be like asking do you think water should stay out of rain. The question itself doesn’t make any sense. There are a lot of ways to point out the logical fallacies we hear coming from conservatives– we don’t need “gotcha!” survey riddles to prove our point.
To be fair, it’s possible that some, if not most, people interpreted “stay out of Medicare” to mean “not alter the existing program for the sake of something new.” In other words, they’re fully aware that Medicare is a government program; they just think that this government should stay out of Medicare as it currently exists.
Possible respones to that range from “Yeah! If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!” to “What makes you so special?” (I’m more inclined toward the latter.) But the point is, these are topics that can and should be debated legitimately. Lampooning people who raise them as ignoramuses, even if some of them are, won’t help anything.
But that’s a discourse we’re already well used to dealing with. People say things like “government should stay out of our personal lives!” Well, government is already in our personal lives. (Assisted suicide is illegal, abortion is restricted, who I can and can’t marry is legislated, etc.) We regularly ask “should government stay out of health care?” when in fact, government is already heavily involved in health care, through Medicare, through the way they do and don’t regulate the providing of health care and insurance companies, etc.
When someone answers “yes,” we should keep government out of health care, the progressive among us will usually point out the ways that government is already involved in health care, along with arguing why involvement in ensuring that everyone has access to health care is a good idea. But I’ve never seen anyone claim before that those who say government should stay out of health care have been tricked somehow.
I think it’s possible for some people to have taken the question as “should government leave Medicare as it is?” And so certainly, the question could have better worded for that reason. But I’m not seeing that the reason the wording was poor is because of logical fallacy that we’re already well used to engaging in.
@ Cara: I get what you’re saying. It just seems (to me) that the statement “The government should stay out of health care” isn’t as illogical as saying “The government should stay out of medicaid” because the definition of “health care” is not dependent on the government being involved in it. (I think?)
I think a better way to handle what the survey was *trying* to get at would be to ask: “Do you think government involvement in health care is a bad thing?” And then ask “Do you or would you receive benefits from medicare/medicaid?” or something like that.
I think the question was phrased perfectly to highlight the incredible contradiction in people’s opinions on the matter. And when it is pointed out that Medicare IS a govt program, many, not all but many, will realize “D’oh, that was stupid” and at least some will rethink (because they don’t actually hold THAT loyally to the contradicting-ignorance-Republican side anyway).
I mean, it’s got a better chance than most other corrections of misperceptions. So I’m all for it.
Health care for all! Fuck the status quo!
It also gets back to the post Joe made above: People don’t want governmental control over their bodies. Unless they’re punishing lady sluts.
Gah. I don’t know why, but it’s really bothering me that my initial reaction to this survey was so different from other people’s. I firmly believe that health care is a right and that the government should provide it for everyone. But when I read the question I was genuinely confused on how to answer it any way other than “This question does not make sense.” In my brain, none of the response options allow me to say: “Medicare IS government.” Which I guess is why the question came off as a cheap set-up to me?
“But I’ve never seen anyone claim before that those who say government should stay out of health care have been tricked somehow.”
–I don’t think that people who hold that belief have been tricked. I believe that this survey is not a good tool to measure whether or not someone actually holds that belief, or whether or not they recognize that it’s illogical to support medicare and not government-run health care.
A phone poll like this needs a control answer.
Something along the lines of “If currently tripping off some seriously bad shit, press 4.”
@ mama mia: That is so unfortunate that the mother had to wait for care, and get the more expensive emergency care. One thing I really don’t get in the health care debate is that the American people are currently already supporting a huge public health care system in the most unfair and irrational way possible. The American government and the Canadian government cover just about the exact same percentage of total health care costs. The difference is that the American government covers these costs for medical emergencies in the uninsured, those who go bankrupt and those on Medicaid or Medicare. These are tax dollars being spent, here, so it is public care. In Canada, in contrast, the government payments cover basic care for everyone, and the private payments/insurance covers “extras” like a private room.
It is completely ironic to me that allegedly America has a private system and Canada has a public system, but the difference in government spending is only about 2%. We both have mixed systems, only America’s does not cover everyone and is much less fare.
There is an interesting piece at Daily Kos http://bit.ly/CmUl2 about the framing of the health care debate. It talks about how different metaphors conjure different emotions, and this is what is persuasive to people. Republicans are really good at framing debates, and progressives tend to see framing as lying, spin, or manipulation. It also gives ways that Democrats could improve the framing of the debate.
18% of Americans think the SUN REVOLVES AROUND THE EARTH.
I don’t know what I’m supposed to do when someone is that far gone. Honestly, it’s like dealing with Martians.
Even worse when you think that some of the 18% must have been just guessing and randomly hit “sun around earth”, which kind of implies that an equal number were just guessing “earth around sun”.
It would be funny “if any aspect of public igorance could ever be otherwise than threatening and full of evil.” Charles Dickens said that a hundred and fifty years ago.
I am more afraid of the rule of ignorance than I am of terrorist attacks.
Another terrifying thought: Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin have constituencies.
‘Member a while back when everybody talked about “compassion fatigue?”
All those fine hardworking conservative types were just sick n tired of hearing about people who were less fortunate, and they kept paying All Those Taxes and Giving To Charity and dangit I put the money in the slot but why don’t all those poor people Just Go Away And Git Jobs.
I am officially suffering from Ignorance Fatigue. I no longer have any sympathy for those who do not read or think, or who decide that anyone who does is un-American and should be screamed down, booed, beat up, abused or shot.
Barney Frank has the right idea, folks–treat them as part of the furniture until such time as they learn how to behave in civil society.
Mama Mia,
“She told about a mother with no health care, who took her sick son to the ER and he only had a stomach ache, and she WASTED $900 with that visit- see proof that poor people just ruin everything.”
…and what totally slays me is that when parents without access to health care fail to take their children in at precisely the RIGHT time (assuming that abdominal pain was a simple stomach ache, rather than, say, appendicitis), they are slapped with charges of abuse and neglect and how DARE they?
Apparently, if you don’t have access to medical care, you’re expected to have a medical DEGREE instead, and if you don’t, you run the risk of losing your children.
The whole situation is awful.
Ow! The stupid! IT HURTS! And I don’t have insurance. T_T
This is a perfect example of a bunch of old people (GOP) who already have good heath care, and could care less about every body else! Who votes for these people??
A sick part of me kind of hopes the government will take that 61%’s advice and discontinue Medicare completely.