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	<title>Comments on: In The Belly of the Beast</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/08/28/in-the-belly-of-the-beast/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/08/28/in-the-belly-of-the-beast/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:34:52 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Salome</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/08/28/in-the-belly-of-the-beast/#comment-273529</link>
		<dc:creator>Salome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 05:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15708#comment-273529</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve said this before and I&#039;ll say it again:  I think I owe a lot to the fact that I continued watching Nickelodeon &amp; Cartoon Network cartoons into middle school and never watched the &quot;kid-sitcoms&quot; on The Disney Channel.  However, this was largely my own choice and nothing my parents forced on me.

As someone who is not too far removed from high school (age 19), my advice would be that you can&#039;t set too many rules, or else you&#039;re just setting up a lot of this stuff as forbidden fruit which as a teenager/adult she&#039;ll be oh-too-eager to sample.  Banning cheerleading might be pushing it.  In some ways, you kind of have to let her learn lessons as her own.  Preteens and teenagers (and I know she&#039;s not there yet, but she will be very soon) will rebel against whatever their parents discourage, and you have to make sure you aren&#039;t pushing her toward it by attempting to push her away.

I had a feminist mom and stepdad, and while they definitely tried to steer us away from certain things, there was very little that they outright &quot;banned&quot; for the reason of being anti-feminist.  A lot of things (like dating or make-up) were not allowed at certain ages but became o.k. as I got older.  It&#039;s good to model feminism, but I&#039;ve found that it&#039;s something you have to come to on your own.  I&#039;ve always considered myself a feminist, but only started actively getting involved in the feminist community and studying feminist thought right around my first year in college, when I first became aware of the dearth of feminist resources out there and how much it would augment my life as a young, independent woman in a society that didn&#039;t always agree with who I wanted to be.  I&#039;d say that though I used the label in middle school &amp; high school, my behavior and ideas weren&#039;t always the most feminist - which I think is typical.  At that age, it&#039;s hard not to become too wrapped-up in what boys think (assuming you&#039;re hetero), and it wasn&#039;t like I was getting the best advice from our patriarchal society (and I tended to ignore my mom&#039;s).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve said this before and I&#8217;ll say it again:  I think I owe a lot to the fact that I continued watching Nickelodeon &amp; Cartoon Network cartoons into middle school and never watched the &#8220;kid-sitcoms&#8221; on The Disney Channel.  However, this was largely my own choice and nothing my parents forced on me.</p>
<p>As someone who is not too far removed from high school (age 19), my advice would be that you can&#8217;t set too many rules, or else you&#8217;re just setting up a lot of this stuff as forbidden fruit which as a teenager/adult she&#8217;ll be oh-too-eager to sample.  Banning cheerleading might be pushing it.  In some ways, you kind of have to let her learn lessons as her own.  Preteens and teenagers (and I know she&#8217;s not there yet, but she will be very soon) will rebel against whatever their parents discourage, and you have to make sure you aren&#8217;t pushing her toward it by attempting to push her away.</p>
<p>I had a feminist mom and stepdad, and while they definitely tried to steer us away from certain things, there was very little that they outright &#8220;banned&#8221; for the reason of being anti-feminist.  A lot of things (like dating or make-up) were not allowed at certain ages but became o.k. as I got older.  It&#8217;s good to model feminism, but I&#8217;ve found that it&#8217;s something you have to come to on your own.  I&#8217;ve always considered myself a feminist, but only started actively getting involved in the feminist community and studying feminist thought right around my first year in college, when I first became aware of the dearth of feminist resources out there and how much it would augment my life as a young, independent woman in a society that didn&#8217;t always agree with who I wanted to be.  I&#8217;d say that though I used the label in middle school &amp; high school, my behavior and ideas weren&#8217;t always the most feminist &#8211; which I think is typical.  At that age, it&#8217;s hard not to become too wrapped-up in what boys think (assuming you&#8217;re hetero), and it wasn&#8217;t like I was getting the best advice from our patriarchal society (and I tended to ignore my mom&#8217;s).</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/08/28/in-the-belly-of-the-beast/#comment-271952</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15708#comment-271952</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s really not clear to me how my struggle to raise my daughter in a way that aligns with my values has anything to do with &quot;what kind of feminist we&#039;re allowed to be&quot;. I don&#039;t think there&#039;s anything in my post that prescribes what anyone else is supposed to be doing. This is about me, my family and my community. 

Cheerleading does indeed have its own competitive heirarchy now, and it requires a great deal of strength and training. Around here, it also involves a great deal of emphasis on appearance, specifically on an ultra-feminine sparkly kind of appearance. I just don&#039;t see that in soccer or softball or basketball. At least some of the competition is judging girls on their appearance. That&#039;s not OK with me. This may be a local phenomenon, and I respect and accept that others have had different experiences. I would ask for the same respect of mine.

I have never seen cheerleaders cheering for the girl&#039;s team. Again, that may happen somewhere, but it doesn&#039;t happen here. So it is, in my experience, girls cheering for boys, and it&#039;s the boys who get their names in the paper and their pictures on the walls of the school. The kids know what really counts.

My daughter is at risk for an eating disorder even if she never sets foot in a gym or a ballet studio. I didn&#039;t say anything about cheerleading. I am well aware of the risks associated with dance, and chose her program accordingly. We have more choice of dance programs than gymnastics centers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s really not clear to me how my struggle to raise my daughter in a way that aligns with my values has anything to do with &#8220;what kind of feminist we&#8217;re allowed to be&#8221;. I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s anything in my post that prescribes what anyone else is supposed to be doing. This is about me, my family and my community. </p>
<p>Cheerleading does indeed have its own competitive heirarchy now, and it requires a great deal of strength and training. Around here, it also involves a great deal of emphasis on appearance, specifically on an ultra-feminine sparkly kind of appearance. I just don&#8217;t see that in soccer or softball or basketball. At least some of the competition is judging girls on their appearance. That&#8217;s not OK with me. This may be a local phenomenon, and I respect and accept that others have had different experiences. I would ask for the same respect of mine.</p>
<p>I have never seen cheerleaders cheering for the girl&#8217;s team. Again, that may happen somewhere, but it doesn&#8217;t happen here. So it is, in my experience, girls cheering for boys, and it&#8217;s the boys who get their names in the paper and their pictures on the walls of the school. The kids know what really counts.</p>
<p>My daughter is at risk for an eating disorder even if she never sets foot in a gym or a ballet studio. I didn&#8217;t say anything about cheerleading. I am well aware of the risks associated with dance, and chose her program accordingly. We have more choice of dance programs than gymnastics centers.</p>
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		<title>By: heidirose</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/08/28/in-the-belly-of-the-beast/#comment-271871</link>
		<dc:creator>heidirose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 02:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15708#comment-271871</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s funny that you associate an &quot;early risk of eating disorders&quot; with cheerleading and not dance [if that&#039;s what you mean to be doing - rereading that, I&#039;m not 100% clear], given the well-known prevalence of eating disorders in the latter.  (On a personal level, I hold my years of ballet at least partially responsible for my own ED.)  I cheered for five years, and in my experience, cheerleaders are praised for being muscular.  It was a running joke that the new girls&#039; thighs always doubled in size after the first year, and my squad included a number of bigger girls.  The reality is nothing like &quot;Bring It On&quot; (where the cheerleaders were encouraged not to eat) – any serious cheerleader will tell you that.

Anyway, I know that&#039;s not the main point of the post!  I just wanted to jump in and defend cheerleading, as well as chime in with the former-cheerleader-still-a-feminist thing.  Depending on your squad, it can be just as much of a &quot;sport&quot; as anything else (especially competitive cheerleading), with the added benefit of teaching you a whole lot about standing up to disrespect from sexist pigs, including the sexist pigs in authority who make you practice in the cafeteria with the squished-up french fries from lunch and won&#039;t put your hard-earned national trophies in the same case as the other sports teams&#039;.

Sorry I can&#039;t offer child-raising advice, other than if she really wants to go for cheerleading, I say go for it and just watch out for signs that it&#039;s going badly.  Thanks for your post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s funny that you associate an &#8220;early risk of eating disorders&#8221; with cheerleading and not dance [if that's what you mean to be doing - rereading that, I'm not 100% clear], given the well-known prevalence of eating disorders in the latter.  (On a personal level, I hold my years of ballet at least partially responsible for my own ED.)  I cheered for five years, and in my experience, cheerleaders are praised for being muscular.  It was a running joke that the new girls&#8217; thighs always doubled in size after the first year, and my squad included a number of bigger girls.  The reality is nothing like &#8220;Bring It On&#8221; (where the cheerleaders were encouraged not to eat) – any serious cheerleader will tell you that.</p>
<p>Anyway, I know that&#8217;s not the main point of the post!  I just wanted to jump in and defend cheerleading, as well as chime in with the former-cheerleader-still-a-feminist thing.  Depending on your squad, it can be just as much of a &#8220;sport&#8221; as anything else (especially competitive cheerleading), with the added benefit of teaching you a whole lot about standing up to disrespect from sexist pigs, including the sexist pigs in authority who make you practice in the cafeteria with the squished-up french fries from lunch and won&#8217;t put your hard-earned national trophies in the same case as the other sports teams&#8217;.</p>
<p>Sorry I can&#8217;t offer child-raising advice, other than if she really wants to go for cheerleading, I say go for it and just watch out for signs that it&#8217;s going badly.  Thanks for your post!</p>
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		<title>By: Lynnsey</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/08/28/in-the-belly-of-the-beast/#comment-271827</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynnsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 00:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15708#comment-271827</guid>
		<description>As someone who has what many consider to be pretty strong feminist leanings AND a former cheerleader and coach for many years since, I&#039;m hoping that your view of cheerleading is, like you view of gymnastics, colored by your own local experience. 

In many places, cheerleading is much more than &quot;cheering for the boys who are playing the real game.&quot;  These girls (and boys in many cases) are dedicated athletes who perform in their own right as well as support the various other teams, members of which are often good friends.  They often work just as hard, if not harder, than many &quot;real&quot; sports and learn valuable skills such as teamwork and leadership abilities in addition to the physical activity they are engaging in.  I, myself, was painfully shy up to middle school and owe a great deal of my confidence to my experience.

I realize, too, that there are cheerleaders out there who don&#039;t promote a positive image of women, but the majority I have met are strong, healthy, smart, confident young people who I would be proud to have my children look up to.  

I also have to agree with others in the concern that, yet again, we are cherrypicking the kind of feminist it&#039;s okay to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who has what many consider to be pretty strong feminist leanings AND a former cheerleader and coach for many years since, I&#8217;m hoping that your view of cheerleading is, like you view of gymnastics, colored by your own local experience. </p>
<p>In many places, cheerleading is much more than &#8220;cheering for the boys who are playing the real game.&#8221;  These girls (and boys in many cases) are dedicated athletes who perform in their own right as well as support the various other teams, members of which are often good friends.  They often work just as hard, if not harder, than many &#8220;real&#8221; sports and learn valuable skills such as teamwork and leadership abilities in addition to the physical activity they are engaging in.  I, myself, was painfully shy up to middle school and owe a great deal of my confidence to my experience.</p>
<p>I realize, too, that there are cheerleaders out there who don&#8217;t promote a positive image of women, but the majority I have met are strong, healthy, smart, confident young people who I would be proud to have my children look up to.  </p>
<p>I also have to agree with others in the concern that, yet again, we are cherrypicking the kind of feminist it&#8217;s okay to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Caitlin</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/08/28/in-the-belly-of-the-beast/#comment-271739</link>
		<dc:creator>Caitlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15708#comment-271739</guid>
		<description>Jay, while it seems like 9 is a pretty scary age to be watching your daughter go through this it might be better to get it over with at this age. My little ister was about that age when she was really into body glitter and cheerleading,,,,,,she&#039;s now 17 and more into dying her hair black and begging to get her nose pierced. Our parents were far more uptight about raising me in a PC way. I&#039;d beg for barbie dream houses and babydoll changing tables for christmas and I&#039;d get a tool kit and workshop table. So I hit my girlie period freshman year of college and they were incredibly freaked out. I went to art school so my outfits were kind of verging on cartoonish. I went from wearing green corduroys to spandex pink mini skirts and white high heeled cowboy boots. I remember my dad trying to give me a talk about what my eyeliner might mean to other people. I lost about 30 lbs and became a master flirt. Now all that is over, well aside from the eyeliner.....i&#039;m back to combat  boots and jeans now. I really think that the common sense and self respect they instilled  helped me come back to a middle ground.  However if I&#039;d been able to experiment a little when I was younger it might have helped me not go so overboard. I ended up turning friends into mothers in an effort to learn about &quot;how to be a girl&quot;....and their tactics of eatting disorders and competitiveness made for bad role models.  I&#039;d say just be there for your daughter and pick your battles....maybe encourage sports over ballet but still let her wear makeup?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay, while it seems like 9 is a pretty scary age to be watching your daughter go through this it might be better to get it over with at this age. My little ister was about that age when she was really into body glitter and cheerleading,,,,,,she&#8217;s now 17 and more into dying her hair black and begging to get her nose pierced. Our parents were far more uptight about raising me in a PC way. I&#8217;d beg for barbie dream houses and babydoll changing tables for christmas and I&#8217;d get a tool kit and workshop table. So I hit my girlie period freshman year of college and they were incredibly freaked out. I went to art school so my outfits were kind of verging on cartoonish. I went from wearing green corduroys to spandex pink mini skirts and white high heeled cowboy boots. I remember my dad trying to give me a talk about what my eyeliner might mean to other people. I lost about 30 lbs and became a master flirt. Now all that is over, well aside from the eyeliner&#8230;..i&#8217;m back to combat  boots and jeans now. I really think that the common sense and self respect they instilled  helped me come back to a middle ground.  However if I&#8217;d been able to experiment a little when I was younger it might have helped me not go so overboard. I ended up turning friends into mothers in an effort to learn about &#8220;how to be a girl&#8221;&#8230;.and their tactics of eatting disorders and competitiveness made for bad role models.  I&#8217;d say just be there for your daughter and pick your battles&#8230;.maybe encourage sports over ballet but still let her wear makeup?</p>
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		<title>By: evil_fizz</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/08/28/in-the-belly-of-the-beast/#comment-271643</link>
		<dc:creator>evil_fizz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15708#comment-271643</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;In retrospect, what made a big difference in my proto-feminism was participation in sports.&lt;/i&gt;

I had this experience too.  I played soccer for 9 years and even though I wasn&#039;t particularly good, it was great having a reason to run around.  Also, when I saw my softball league next to my brother&#039;s Little League, it was hard not to get bristly about gender disparities.  They had a snack bar, for crying out loud.  We had to ask local schools nicely to use their fields.

With respect to cheerleading, it was one of the very few things that my mother actually banned outright.  Her take was that if I wanted to play a sport, that was great.  If I wanted to be a spectator, that was cool too and she would take me to games, but no cheerleading.  My daughter&#039;s only 2 months old, but I think I&#039;ll probably take the same tack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>In retrospect, what made a big difference in my proto-feminism was participation in sports.</i></p>
<p>I had this experience too.  I played soccer for 9 years and even though I wasn&#8217;t particularly good, it was great having a reason to run around.  Also, when I saw my softball league next to my brother&#8217;s Little League, it was hard not to get bristly about gender disparities.  They had a snack bar, for crying out loud.  We had to ask local schools nicely to use their fields.</p>
<p>With respect to cheerleading, it was one of the very few things that my mother actually banned outright.  Her take was that if I wanted to play a sport, that was great.  If I wanted to be a spectator, that was cool too and she would take me to games, but no cheerleading.  My daughter&#8217;s only 2 months old, but I think I&#8217;ll probably take the same tack.</p>
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		<title>By: Jha</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/08/28/in-the-belly-of-the-beast/#comment-271639</link>
		<dc:creator>Jha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:10:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15708#comment-271639</guid>
		<description>Jay: You&#039;d be right if you guessed I didn&#039;t have a kid. I&#039;ve never met any child who could answer the &quot;why I like this&quot; questions either - but to be honest, I&#039;m usually more horrified when I meet kids who just ... &lt;i&gt;don&#039;t ask &quot;why&quot;&lt;/i&gt; in the first place. Or parents who never questioned their kids &#039;why&#039; either.

I&#039;m just harking back to my own childhood when I would ask &#039;why do people do this&#039; and no one took me seriously enough to give me some form of an answer. It was frustrating because I wasn&#039;t given the language I needed to express myself. You don&#039;t appear to be one of those adult types I grew up with. I think your daughter&#039;s in good hands there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay: You&#8217;d be right if you guessed I didn&#8217;t have a kid. I&#8217;ve never met any child who could answer the &#8220;why I like this&#8221; questions either &#8211; but to be honest, I&#8217;m usually more horrified when I meet kids who just &#8230; <i>don&#8217;t ask &#8220;why&#8221;</i> in the first place. Or parents who never questioned their kids &#8216;why&#8217; either.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m just harking back to my own childhood when I would ask &#8216;why do people do this&#8217; and no one took me seriously enough to give me some form of an answer. It was frustrating because I wasn&#8217;t given the language I needed to express myself. You don&#8217;t appear to be one of those adult types I grew up with. I think your daughter&#8217;s in good hands there.</p>
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		<title>By: Jackie</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/08/28/in-the-belly-of-the-beast/#comment-271634</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15708#comment-271634</guid>
		<description>I understand how your feeling. It&#039;s difficult when your child embraces, that which your against. Are you sure it&#039;s not a form of rebellion, teenagers tend to rebel against their parents to test their ground. Not that this is news, but that could really be what&#039;s behind this.

As far as being a cheerleader, most cheerleaders now see themselves as athletes and are insulted by the notion that people would see them only as sexual objects. So it&#039;s not the same environment that cheerleading had in the past.

I remember a episode of 7th Heaven where the daughter wanted to wear a revealing outfit to a concert. The mother explained to her that the problem wasn&#039;t with her and what she was wearing, it was that you can&#039;t control how other people will perceive dressing that way. That in a perfect world a woman could wear whatever she wants, but we&#039;re not there yet. That feminism is helping us get towards that world, and a world where if a woman dressed revealing, it wouldn&#039;t be assumed that she&#039;s doing it just to be sexual.

The feminism part wasn&#039;t in the show, but it really affected me as a high schooler who was getting a lot of greif for dressing Goth. That there wasn&#039;t anything wrong with me, it&#039;s just that other people can&#039;t handle difference. Also women in high school can be very insecure, and will use language that is demeaning to other women they feel is threatening their turf. That&#039;s why you get language like slut thrown about, regarding women in high school who dress revealing. It&#039;s that the girl who says it is threatened by that person&#039;s security with themselves, because they don&#039;t have it themselves. From a girl, who formerly called girls sluts herself, myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand how your feeling. It&#8217;s difficult when your child embraces, that which your against. Are you sure it&#8217;s not a form of rebellion, teenagers tend to rebel against their parents to test their ground. Not that this is news, but that could really be what&#8217;s behind this.</p>
<p>As far as being a cheerleader, most cheerleaders now see themselves as athletes and are insulted by the notion that people would see them only as sexual objects. So it&#8217;s not the same environment that cheerleading had in the past.</p>
<p>I remember a episode of 7th Heaven where the daughter wanted to wear a revealing outfit to a concert. The mother explained to her that the problem wasn&#8217;t with her and what she was wearing, it was that you can&#8217;t control how other people will perceive dressing that way. That in a perfect world a woman could wear whatever she wants, but we&#8217;re not there yet. That feminism is helping us get towards that world, and a world where if a woman dressed revealing, it wouldn&#8217;t be assumed that she&#8217;s doing it just to be sexual.</p>
<p>The feminism part wasn&#8217;t in the show, but it really affected me as a high schooler who was getting a lot of greif for dressing Goth. That there wasn&#8217;t anything wrong with me, it&#8217;s just that other people can&#8217;t handle difference. Also women in high school can be very insecure, and will use language that is demeaning to other women they feel is threatening their turf. That&#8217;s why you get language like slut thrown about, regarding women in high school who dress revealing. It&#8217;s that the girl who says it is threatened by that person&#8217;s security with themselves, because they don&#8217;t have it themselves. From a girl, who formerly called girls sluts herself, myself.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/08/28/in-the-belly-of-the-beast/#comment-271629</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15708#comment-271629</guid>
		<description>Malta, thanks for the suggestion about image editing. That&#039;s a great idea, and something we can all learn together - I&#039;m fascinated by it but have never tried it, and I know it would also appeal to Eve&#039;s dad. Very cool.

My concern about my daughter&#039;s clothing and activities is not to make sure she is &quot;feminist enough&quot;. I&#039;m concerned about her health and safety. Cheerleading in and of itself may not be the End of the World as We Know It, but in this community, at this age, it teaches girls lessons that I think are dangerous. She&#039;s nine years old. I will let her wear makeup when she&#039;s 12. Is that really all that stifling?

I don&#039;t think there&#039;s a feminist dress code. I do think there&#039;s a patriarchy, and a kyriarchy, and as La Lubu points out, that takes a toll on our bodies and our spirits. I&#039;m doing what I can now to help Eve manage that when it comes her way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Malta, thanks for the suggestion about image editing. That&#8217;s a great idea, and something we can all learn together &#8211; I&#8217;m fascinated by it but have never tried it, and I know it would also appeal to Eve&#8217;s dad. Very cool.</p>
<p>My concern about my daughter&#8217;s clothing and activities is not to make sure she is &#8220;feminist enough&#8221;. I&#8217;m concerned about her health and safety. Cheerleading in and of itself may not be the End of the World as We Know It, but in this community, at this age, it teaches girls lessons that I think are dangerous. She&#8217;s nine years old. I will let her wear makeup when she&#8217;s 12. Is that really all that stifling?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s a feminist dress code. I do think there&#8217;s a patriarchy, and a kyriarchy, and as La Lubu points out, that takes a toll on our bodies and our spirits. I&#8217;m doing what I can now to help Eve manage that when it comes her way.</p>
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		<title>By: La Lubu</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/08/28/in-the-belly-of-the-beast/#comment-271624</link>
		<dc:creator>La Lubu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:15:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15708#comment-271624</guid>
		<description>Malta: thanks! I have only a passing familiarity with the Simpsons; I know Bart&#039;s the smartass, Lisa plays the sax, Marge has the beehive, and Homer isn&#039;t too bright. And that&#039;s about it.

Simon(e): I&#039;m really glad you&#039;ve never experienced street harassment. I hope it will be that way for my daughter too, but considering the neighborhood we live in, I seriously doubt it. I first experienced men driving up to me while I was walking down the street and asking me for blow jobs when I was eleven, and in no way, shape or form could I have passed for older than twelve. Now, it&#039;s possible there could have been some ethnic/racial ugliness in that, given that with my dark hair and olive tone I was often taken as nonwhite (and I thought about that at the time too, as a kid), but I know &lt;i&gt;damn&lt;/i&gt; well it had everything to do with becoming a woman, because I didn&#039;t have that experience before physically developing. What bothered me more than the creeps themselves, were the reactions of witnesses---like &lt;i&gt;I&lt;/i&gt; was the problem, not the creeps. It definitely gave me the feeling of &quot;you&#039;re in this alone, kid. No one is one your side.&quot;

I notice a difference in the way young men and young women perceive their bodies that is directly related to the way our bodies are perceived by others. Young men have a freedom that young women don&#039;t because their bodies aren&#039;t typed as necessarily sexual (women being the sex class), nor are their bodies typed as &quot;dirty.&quot; A good part of the issue surrounding &quot;too girly&quot; or form-fitting clothing is about how visible the female form is---how much the clothing emphasizes difference from the male form, and the effect that has on the perception of the woman. Those are issues men don&#039;t have to negotiate their way around; they can just &lt;i&gt;be&lt;/i&gt;. 

I mean, I see the difference in the way male and female &lt;i&gt;children&lt;/i&gt; are carrying themselves in the upper grades of my daughter&#039;s grade school. It happens that early. My daughter just entered the fourth grade. She&#039;s already getting policed about her both her body and her (lack of) girliness. What. The Fuck.

But yeah, I still go out and enjoy the feel of the sun on my skin too. But for some strange reason, I can&#039;t do that without packing a weapon, know what I mean? And growing eyes in the back of my head? And being mindful that if I were to be assaulted, the first thing the cops would say is &quot;what were you doing out here (running, walking, working in my own backyard, whatever) alone?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Malta: thanks! I have only a passing familiarity with the Simpsons; I know Bart&#8217;s the smartass, Lisa plays the sax, Marge has the beehive, and Homer isn&#8217;t too bright. And that&#8217;s about it.</p>
<p>Simon(e): I&#8217;m really glad you&#8217;ve never experienced street harassment. I hope it will be that way for my daughter too, but considering the neighborhood we live in, I seriously doubt it. I first experienced men driving up to me while I was walking down the street and asking me for blow jobs when I was eleven, and in no way, shape or form could I have passed for older than twelve. Now, it&#8217;s possible there could have been some ethnic/racial ugliness in that, given that with my dark hair and olive tone I was often taken as nonwhite (and I thought about that at the time too, as a kid), but I know <i>damn</i> well it had everything to do with becoming a woman, because I didn&#8217;t have that experience before physically developing. What bothered me more than the creeps themselves, were the reactions of witnesses&#8212;like <i>I</i> was the problem, not the creeps. It definitely gave me the feeling of &#8220;you&#8217;re in this alone, kid. No one is one your side.&#8221;</p>
<p>I notice a difference in the way young men and young women perceive their bodies that is directly related to the way our bodies are perceived by others. Young men have a freedom that young women don&#8217;t because their bodies aren&#8217;t typed as necessarily sexual (women being the sex class), nor are their bodies typed as &#8220;dirty.&#8221; A good part of the issue surrounding &#8220;too girly&#8221; or form-fitting clothing is about how visible the female form is&#8212;how much the clothing emphasizes difference from the male form, and the effect that has on the perception of the woman. Those are issues men don&#8217;t have to negotiate their way around; they can just <i>be</i>. </p>
<p>I mean, I see the difference in the way male and female <i>children</i> are carrying themselves in the upper grades of my daughter&#8217;s grade school. It happens that early. My daughter just entered the fourth grade. She&#8217;s already getting policed about her both her body and her (lack of) girliness. What. The Fuck.</p>
<p>But yeah, I still go out and enjoy the feel of the sun on my skin too. But for some strange reason, I can&#8217;t do that without packing a weapon, know what I mean? And growing eyes in the back of my head? And being mindful that if I were to be assaulted, the first thing the cops would say is &#8220;what were you doing out here (running, walking, working in my own backyard, whatever) alone?&#8221;</p>
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