Comments on: Stealth Was A Mistake http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/08/stealth-was-a-mistake/ In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:02:20 +0000 hourly 1 By: Jen http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/08/stealth-was-a-mistake/#comment-277646 Jen Fri, 25 Sep 2009 05:45:47 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15945#comment-277646 Monica, I very much appreciate your thoughtful article and this is definitely the type of thoughtful, intelligent dialog than needs to occur more! I have one slight disagreement with your analogy and some comments of my own that I hope will add to the conversation (though I'm sure will drive some girls batty *smiles*). While I cannot in any way comprehend the issues of of the African-American experience let alone the African-American transgender experience, I think comparing being a transgender woman who is attempting to become on the outside what she is on the inside is different than the example of an African American pretending to be something they are not. That may be a minor nit given the crux of the article that pushing militant stealth can do irreparable harm to some. When I look at how the grass-roots, political and medical efforts have effected positively and negatively in my own transition, I end up seeing many pros and cons. In some ways, the level of "transparency" that any one transitioning woman accepts for herself is a personal decision and based on what they want their life to be like. I have chosen to get as close as I am able to get to "passing" which I am ABSOLUTELY still working on :). I am a woman, I live as a woman, and I personally do not want to spend my life as a "Trans-Woman". That is my personal choice. However, I will also say that, at times, the advocates for people should be able to look any way they want, don't need to try to pass and be "out and proud", especially in the political and work environments, create the impression of to the world (right or wrong, just reality) of what a transsexual woman is. I had to overcome the expectations and previous experiences of all of the people I work with, including HR when I transitioned in a professional environment. I also had to overcome the stereo-types created by whoever decides they want to let the discovery channel do a special on them with no thought to how it impacts public perception :) As much as I agree personally, that everyone should be able to be whoever they feel they are inside, and that some women have more, or less, resources with which to transition, we are the future generation's examples and we are setting the expectation of everyone around us when they meet the next one of us or decide the next law. Striving for passing to the best of our resources and abilities is a great motivation and a great example even if we never fully get there. Being "out" with class, thoughtfulness and dignity at all times requires no money and no doctors. Moinica, you have shown both with your article and I hope people can learn from your example. Hugs, Jen Monica, I very much appreciate your thoughtful article and this is definitely the type of thoughtful, intelligent dialog than needs to occur more! I have one slight disagreement with your analogy and some comments of my own that I hope will add to the conversation (though I’m sure will drive some girls batty *smiles*). While I cannot in any way comprehend the issues of of the African-American experience let alone the African-American transgender experience, I think comparing being a transgender woman who is attempting to become on the outside what she is on the inside is different than the example of an African American pretending to be something they are not. That may be a minor nit given the crux of the article that pushing militant stealth can do irreparable harm to some. When I look at how the grass-roots, political and medical efforts have effected positively and negatively in my own transition, I end up seeing many pros and cons. In some ways, the level of “transparency” that any one transitioning woman accepts for herself is a personal decision and based on what they want their life to be like. I have chosen to get as close as I am able to get to “passing” which I am ABSOLUTELY still working on :). I am a woman, I live as a woman, and I personally do not want to spend my life as a “Trans-Woman”. That is my personal choice. However, I will also say that, at times, the advocates for people should be able to look any way they want, don’t need to try to pass and be “out and proud”, especially in the political and work environments, create the impression of to the world (right or wrong, just reality) of what a transsexual woman is. I had to overcome the expectations and previous experiences of all of the people I work with, including HR when I transitioned in a professional environment. I also had to overcome the stereo-types created by whoever decides they want to let the discovery channel do a special on them with no thought to how it impacts public perception :) As much as I agree personally, that everyone should be able to be whoever they feel they are inside, and that some women have more, or less, resources with which to transition, we are the future generation’s examples and we are setting the expectation of everyone around us when they meet the next one of us or decide the next law. Striving for passing to the best of our resources and abilities is a great motivation and a great example even if we never fully get there. Being “out” with class, thoughtfulness and dignity at all times requires no money and no doctors. Moinica, you have shown both with your article and I hope people can learn from your example. Hugs, Jen

]]> By: ginasf http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/08/stealth-was-a-mistake/#comment-277086 ginasf Wed, 23 Sep 2009 04:26:08 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15945#comment-277086 "Stealth was a mistake." What would you have done differently if you were her? “Stealth was a mistake.”

What would you have done differently if you were her?

]]> By: Monica Roberts http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/08/stealth-was-a-mistake/#comment-276995 Monica Roberts Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:20:25 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15945#comment-276995 Gina, Still doesn't change what I said and wrote in the post. Stealth was a mistake. Gina,
Still doesn’t change what I said and wrote in the post.

Stealth was a mistake.

]]> By: ginasf http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/08/stealth-was-a-mistake/#comment-276934 ginasf Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:25:35 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15945#comment-276934 http://zagria.blogspot.com/2009/09/georgia-black-1906-1951-housewife.html An interesting story about an African-American transwoman in stealth. Was she wrong to do what she did? http://zagria.blogspot.com/2009/09/georgia-black-1906-1951-housewife.html

An interesting story about an African-American transwoman in stealth. Was she wrong to do what she did?

]]> By: Ariel Silvera http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/08/stealth-was-a-mistake/#comment-275230 Ariel Silvera Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:31:40 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15945#comment-275230 Leigh, Thank you for your condescending rant which, once again, presumes to tell me who I am or what my history is. I don't hate my body. My body is my own, it will still be my body in a decade when I've been on hormones for a long while. It'll simply be more adjusted to who I want to be and how I feel. I am genderqueer in that I mess around with people's concept of gender. I'm transsexual in that I was born with a male body, which isn't what I feel I should have. But transitioning does not mean I hate my flesh, it means I love it and want to be able to love it more. Never pretend to tell another trans person who they are or how they should feel. I hope you'll respect other trans people in the future as I've tried to respect you, whereas you've treated me dismissively. regards ariel Leigh,

Thank you for your condescending rant which, once again, presumes to tell me who I am or what my history is.

I don’t hate my body. My body is my own, it will still be my body in a decade when I’ve been on hormones for a long while. It’ll simply be more adjusted to who I want to be and how I feel.

I am genderqueer in that I mess around with people’s concept of gender. I’m transsexual in that I was born with a male body, which isn’t what I feel I should have. But transitioning does not mean I hate my flesh, it means I love it and want to be able to love it more.

Never pretend to tell another trans person who they are or how they should feel. I hope you’ll respect other trans people in the future as I’ve tried to respect you, whereas you’ve treated me dismissively.

regards

ariel

]]> By: Sophia http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/08/stealth-was-a-mistake/#comment-275019 Sophia Mon, 14 Sep 2009 00:04:22 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15945#comment-275019 At the same point of time, that doesn't mean that as a community we can't judge ourselves. If we accept that part of our community are young and perhaps unable to see the viability of accepting themselves as trans, then a sufficiency of clearly identified trans role models is surely desirable. If there are members of our community who find aspects of transition hard, or any particularly trans specific set of life issues are difficult, or if stealth is not possible, its not too much of a crutch to have as many out trans people about and vocal about their life strategies. Now if people want to argue that stealth works best for them, or that visibility is a bad political stance, well I live near Sachsenhausen and I can certainly respect those points of view. But if stealth is accompanied by a belittlement of community and a denial of any meaningful trans identity, I'm afraid I don't quite understand how those who view themselves as passing through a birth defect, for example, can expect to have a voice in discussions of trans community issues. Perhaps someone might point out how I must be mistaken in this regard. At the same point of time, that doesn’t mean that as a community we can’t judge ourselves. If we accept that part of our community are young and perhaps unable to see the viability of accepting themselves as trans, then a sufficiency of clearly identified trans role models is surely desirable. If there are members of our community who find aspects of transition hard, or any particularly trans specific set of life issues are difficult, or if stealth is not possible, its not too much of a crutch to have as many out trans people about and vocal about their life strategies.
Now if people want to argue that stealth works best for them, or that visibility is a bad political stance, well I live near Sachsenhausen and I can certainly respect those points of view. But if stealth is accompanied by a belittlement of community and a denial of any meaningful trans identity, I’m afraid I don’t quite understand how those who view themselves as passing through a birth defect, for example, can expect to have a voice in discussions of trans community issues. Perhaps someone might point out how I must be mistaken in this regard.

]]> By: Leigh http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/08/stealth-was-a-mistake/#comment-275009 Leigh Sun, 13 Sep 2009 23:26:59 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15945#comment-275009 Yes yes .. the so termed gender spectrum theory .. so how come the transgender machine are disowning Jasper ? Is s/he not transgendered enough or did s/he fall off the spectrum? Yes yes .. the so termed gender spectrum theory .. so how come the transgender machine are disowning Jasper ? Is s/he not transgendered enough or did s/he fall off the spectrum?

]]> By: ginasf http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/08/stealth-was-a-mistake/#comment-274916 ginasf Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:31:40 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15945#comment-274916 ^ Thanks Tammy... totally agree! This is too intensely personal an issue for any of us to be entitled to judge one another. ^ Thanks Tammy… totally agree! This is too intensely personal an issue for any of us to be entitled to judge one another.

]]> By: TammieH http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/08/stealth-was-a-mistake/#comment-274900 TammieH Sun, 13 Sep 2009 17:32:41 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15945#comment-274900 I know this to be true..from gay to heterosexual to transsexual there are varying degrees of social norms and those that are considered not normal "by some" across the board. So much that there is a blending a graying, so many people or groups of people do not fit into any one single category, that the categories walls seem to fall and spill over. We know this. The same is true for our community, there are those of us hate our bodies so much that we do not see how we an ever be truly happy inside them, that death is the only way for true happiness. To those who are more comfortable, those who even might be OK with not having surgery, those who want to be out to everyone because they are so proud of who they are, that they want everyone to know...to those who want to be the person that they wish so bad that the only way to be is to push the past so far behind them because they feel that is the only way to be treated as the gender they are. Between those extremes lies an infinite number of variations of trans. It is not for any one of us to say what is right or wrong...there is no right or wrong! Do I wish that everyone would or could be completely out? Yes! Do I believe if everyone of us were out it would help our cause? Yes! ... But I realize that we are all different, our experiences, our choices, our economic background, our dreams, our physical and mental strengths, everything that has made us who we are at this point in our lives. So, No...I Will NOT judge others! As I have said before, we want to be fully accepted by society, but we cannot even accept the differences in ourselves. There simply is no one right way to be! We must open our minds in order for others to open theirs towards us! I know this to be true..from gay to heterosexual to transsexual there are varying degrees of social norms and those that are considered not normal “by some” across the board. So much that there is a blending a graying, so many people or groups of people do not fit into any one single category, that the categories walls seem to fall and spill over. We know this.

The same is true for our community, there are those of us hate our bodies so much that we do not see how we an ever be truly happy inside them, that death is the only way for true happiness. To those who are more comfortable, those who even might be OK with not having surgery, those who want to be out to everyone because they are so proud of who they are, that they want everyone to know…to those who want to be the person that they wish so bad that the only way to be is to push the past so far behind them because they feel that is the only way to be treated as the gender they are. Between those extremes lies an infinite number of variations of trans.

It is not for any one of us to say what is right or wrong…there is no right or wrong! Do I wish that everyone would or could be completely out? Yes! Do I believe if everyone of us were out it would help our cause? Yes! … But I realize that we are all different, our experiences, our choices, our economic background, our dreams, our physical and mental strengths, everything that has made us who we are at this point in our lives.
So, No…I Will NOT judge others!

As I have said before, we want to be fully accepted by society, but we cannot even accept the differences in ourselves. There simply is no one right way to be! We must open our minds in order for others to open theirs towards us!

]]> By: This week, I have mostly not been blogging about… « bird of paradox http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/08/stealth-was-a-mistake/#comment-274756 This week, I have mostly not been blogging about… « bird of paradox Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:02:05 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=15945#comment-274756 [...] pontifications on TransGriot’s post (Stealth was a mistake) at [...] [...] pontifications on TransGriot’s post (Stealth was a mistake) at [...]

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