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	<title>Comments on: A (baby) step forward for working moms</title>
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	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/17/a-baby-step-forward-for-working-moms/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
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		<title>By: Alas, a blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Link Farm and Open Thread, Brain Scanning Dead Fish Edition</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/17/a-baby-step-forward-for-working-moms/#comment-276683</link>
		<dc:creator>Alas, a blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Link Farm and Open Thread, Brain Scanning Dead Fish Edition</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16711#comment-276683</guid>
		<description>[...] The UK offers paternity leave for the first time. Molly calls this a baby step forward for working moms, and she&#8217;s right, but I&#8217;d add that it&#8217;s also a step forward for working dads. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The UK offers paternity leave for the first time. Molly calls this a baby step forward for working moms, and she&#8217;s right, but I&#8217;d add that it&#8217;s also a step forward for working dads. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nikita</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/17/a-baby-step-forward-for-working-moms/#comment-276623</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16711#comment-276623</guid>
		<description>Just as a side note... the &#039;unpaid leave&#039; in Ontario is covered by Employment Insurance (EI) which we pay into from each paycheck. For the mother there is 17 weeks of pregnancy leave followed by 35 of parental leave (the parental leave can be shared by both parents).  This entire 52 weeks is covered by EI.  It isn&#039;t a large amount of money (max benefit is currently $447 per week and is taxable bringing it down to $393; it is calculated based on the amount earned in the 26 weeks prior to the day the leave starts) but it is usually enough to help the new parents who are used to two incomes for the year.  

Also, some companies (mostly government and unions, not usually private corporations/small businesses) &quot;top up&quot; the employee so that in addition to the EI they receive up to a certain percentage of their salary. This is also taxable so usually the first year after the maternity/parental leave gives you a larger tax bill than in other years.

Last week in Ontario one couple with newborn twins earned the right to double the parental leave giving them 35 weeks each. This does not set a precedence as it was not a legal battle, just a hearing, but it is definitely a promising step forward in realizing the importance of supporting families.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just as a side note&#8230; the &#8216;unpaid leave&#8217; in Ontario is covered by Employment Insurance (EI) which we pay into from each paycheck. For the mother there is 17 weeks of pregnancy leave followed by 35 of parental leave (the parental leave can be shared by both parents).  This entire 52 weeks is covered by EI.  It isn&#8217;t a large amount of money (max benefit is currently $447 per week and is taxable bringing it down to $393; it is calculated based on the amount earned in the 26 weeks prior to the day the leave starts) but it is usually enough to help the new parents who are used to two incomes for the year.  </p>
<p>Also, some companies (mostly government and unions, not usually private corporations/small businesses) &#8220;top up&#8221; the employee so that in addition to the EI they receive up to a certain percentage of their salary. This is also taxable so usually the first year after the maternity/parental leave gives you a larger tax bill than in other years.</p>
<p>Last week in Ontario one couple with newborn twins earned the right to double the parental leave giving them 35 weeks each. This does not set a precedence as it was not a legal battle, just a hearing, but it is definitely a promising step forward in realizing the importance of supporting families.</p>
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		<title>By: Alara Rogers</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/17/a-baby-step-forward-for-working-moms/#comment-275921</link>
		<dc:creator>Alara Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16711#comment-275921</guid>
		<description>I think that for a *first* child, very little of the wage gap will have kicked in yet. Single women make 94 cents to the male dollar, and *most* of the differential is accounted for by various mommy penalties. If a couple has this option available with their first child, and their salaries haven&#039;t dramatically diverged yet, it may be a way to prevent their salaries from diverging terribly. 

If mom already makes significantly less than dad, either because she entered a lower-paying profession in the first place (&quot;female&quot;-coded professions make less than &quot;male&quot;-coded professions of equal educational requirement) or because they already have kids, then it might not make sense for dad to take the time. But some dads will make time. Men get burned out and fed up with their jobs too, and one reason women drop out of the workforce when they have kids is the feeling of &quot;why am I putting up with this bullshit when I could go home to a baby that loves me?&quot; Give men the option to opt out of the bullshit and go home to a baby that loves them for a while, and *some* of them will take it... and the more that take it, the more will feel comfortable taking it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that for a *first* child, very little of the wage gap will have kicked in yet. Single women make 94 cents to the male dollar, and *most* of the differential is accounted for by various mommy penalties. If a couple has this option available with their first child, and their salaries haven&#8217;t dramatically diverged yet, it may be a way to prevent their salaries from diverging terribly. </p>
<p>If mom already makes significantly less than dad, either because she entered a lower-paying profession in the first place (&#8220;female&#8221;-coded professions make less than &#8220;male&#8221;-coded professions of equal educational requirement) or because they already have kids, then it might not make sense for dad to take the time. But some dads will make time. Men get burned out and fed up with their jobs too, and one reason women drop out of the workforce when they have kids is the feeling of &#8220;why am I putting up with this bullshit when I could go home to a baby that loves me?&#8221; Give men the option to opt out of the bullshit and go home to a baby that loves them for a while, and *some* of them will take it&#8230; and the more that take it, the more will feel comfortable taking it.</p>
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		<title>By: ShelbyWoo</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/17/a-baby-step-forward-for-working-moms/#comment-275898</link>
		<dc:creator>ShelbyWoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16711#comment-275898</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;some companies offer six weeks with pay, some three months, some none at all.&lt;/i&gt;

I think the use of &quot;some” here is rather misleading and seriously understates the problem Only a small percentage of U.S. employers offer paid maternity/paternity leave of any kind. The overwhelming majority of U.S. employers do not - well more than &quot;some.&quot; Obviously, the author of the post rightly sees this a a huge problem, it&#039;s just the wording of that statement doesn&#039;t properly portray the state of maternity leave in the U.S.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>some companies offer six weeks with pay, some three months, some none at all.</i></p>
<p>I think the use of &#8220;some” here is rather misleading and seriously understates the problem Only a small percentage of U.S. employers offer paid maternity/paternity leave of any kind. The overwhelming majority of U.S. employers do not &#8211; well more than &#8220;some.&#8221; Obviously, the author of the post rightly sees this a a huge problem, it&#8217;s just the wording of that statement doesn&#8217;t properly portray the state of maternity leave in the U.S.</p>
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		<title>By: martini_5697</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/17/a-baby-step-forward-for-working-moms/#comment-275874</link>
		<dc:creator>martini_5697</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16711#comment-275874</guid>
		<description>In Ontario, &quot;Both new parents have the right to take parental leave of up to 35 or 37 weeks of unpaid time off work.&quot; (from http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/guide/guide_11.html), but this is unpaid leave, so economics still rule. But this allows the parents more flexibility in arranging the leave... they can both be off for the first month, and when Mom is heading back to work, Dad can stay home for a couple of months (I know a couple families where the Dad has taken 2 months when Mom goes back to work). This seems like a better option than mandating a 50/50 split, since it allows the family to balance time and paycheques to suit them the best.

And of course, &#039;Dad&#039; in the above can be a second parent who is not &quot;Dad&quot;, and adoptive parents get the same parental leave (except for the medical portion of the leave that only applies if you personally have given birth). From the same website linked above:

&quot;A &quot;parent&quot; includes:
- a birth parent; 
- an adoptive parent (whether or not the adoption has been legally finalized); or 
- a person who is in a relationship of some permanence with a parent of the child and who plans on treating the child as his or her own. This includes same-sex couples.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Ontario, &#8220;Both new parents have the right to take parental leave of up to 35 or 37 weeks of unpaid time off work.&#8221; (from <a href="http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/guide/guide_11.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/guide/guide_11.html</a>), but this is unpaid leave, so economics still rule. But this allows the parents more flexibility in arranging the leave&#8230; they can both be off for the first month, and when Mom is heading back to work, Dad can stay home for a couple of months (I know a couple families where the Dad has taken 2 months when Mom goes back to work). This seems like a better option than mandating a 50/50 split, since it allows the family to balance time and paycheques to suit them the best.</p>
<p>And of course, &#8216;Dad&#8217; in the above can be a second parent who is not &#8220;Dad&#8221;, and adoptive parents get the same parental leave (except for the medical portion of the leave that only applies if you personally have given birth). From the same website linked above:</p>
<p>&#8220;A &#8220;parent&#8221; includes:<br />
- a birth parent;<br />
- an adoptive parent (whether or not the adoption has been legally finalized); or<br />
- a person who is in a relationship of some permanence with a parent of the child and who plans on treating the child as his or her own. This includes same-sex couples.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Nentuaby</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/17/a-baby-step-forward-for-working-moms/#comment-275850</link>
		<dc:creator>Nentuaby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:07:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16711#comment-275850</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;A woman with children will typically earn 10 percent less than any man doing the same job.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I keep seeing things similar to this in discussion of pay inequality, and the pecise comparison strikes me as a bit odd. A lot of people like to say seniority lost to maternity leave adequately explains the wage gap (as if penalizing women for their gender directly is unacceptable, but penalizing a vital social role only one sex can fulfill is totally reasonable &gt;.&gt;). Yet the comparison is always either women in general, or mothers, vs. men. Does anyone here know where to find statistics directly comparing mothers vs. childfree women?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>A woman with children will typically earn 10 percent less than any man doing the same job.</p></blockquote>
<p>I keep seeing things similar to this in discussion of pay inequality, and the pecise comparison strikes me as a bit odd. A lot of people like to say seniority lost to maternity leave adequately explains the wage gap (as if penalizing women for their gender directly is unacceptable, but penalizing a vital social role only one sex can fulfill is totally reasonable &gt;.&gt;). Yet the comparison is always either women in general, or mothers, vs. men. Does anyone here know where to find statistics directly comparing mothers vs. childfree women?</p>
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		<title>By: Lyndsay</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/17/a-baby-step-forward-for-working-moms/#comment-275841</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16711#comment-275841</guid>
		<description>I can only hope that the next step is to give dads three months that don&#039;t take away from the mom. In Canada (or just Ontario?) dads who work for government get three months paid off. I just wish that could be extended to the rest of the population. The issues are paying them and getting someone trained to take over for them. It&#039;s not like there aren&#039;t enough people out there who want to work in this recession.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can only hope that the next step is to give dads three months that don&#8217;t take away from the mom. In Canada (or just Ontario?) dads who work for government get three months paid off. I just wish that could be extended to the rest of the population. The issues are paying them and getting someone trained to take over for them. It&#8217;s not like there aren&#8217;t enough people out there who want to work in this recession.</p>
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		<title>By: Bakka</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/17/a-baby-step-forward-for-working-moms/#comment-275840</link>
		<dc:creator>Bakka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16711#comment-275840</guid>
		<description>I really liked this post and I think it is great to offer substantial parental leave. I also appreciate the point about the possible effects of the wage gap on whether fathers will take the leave (Ann Cudd makes a similar point in her article &quot;Oppression by Choice&quot; which I highly recommend).

But I think the pessimism may not be entirely warranted. Canada has had paid parental leave for both spouses since 2001 and so there has been time to evaluate the program, which you can find here http://bit.ly/q2DKc

There is a pretty high percentage of fathers who are taking up the benefit, especially in Quebec (55%). Other European countries also have a pretty high-uptake depending on how the plans are implemented: e.g. Sweden (90% participation rate), Norway (89%) and Iceland (84%). This study also sites the wage gap as a barrier to up-take in countries where it is low: e.g. Belgium has a paternal participation rate of under 7%, Austria, 2% and France, 1%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really liked this post and I think it is great to offer substantial parental leave. I also appreciate the point about the possible effects of the wage gap on whether fathers will take the leave (Ann Cudd makes a similar point in her article &#8220;Oppression by Choice&#8221; which I highly recommend).</p>
<p>But I think the pessimism may not be entirely warranted. Canada has had paid parental leave for both spouses since 2001 and so there has been time to evaluate the program, which you can find here <a href="http://bit.ly/q2DKc" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/q2DKc</a></p>
<p>There is a pretty high percentage of fathers who are taking up the benefit, especially in Quebec (55%). Other European countries also have a pretty high-uptake depending on how the plans are implemented: e.g. Sweden (90% participation rate), Norway (89%) and Iceland (84%). This study also sites the wage gap as a barrier to up-take in countries where it is low: e.g. Belgium has a paternal participation rate of under 7%, Austria, 2% and France, 1%.</p>
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		<title>By: Ros</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/17/a-baby-step-forward-for-working-moms/#comment-275838</link>
		<dc:creator>Ros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16711#comment-275838</guid>
		<description>I think that&#039;s pretty great, actually. 

I also think that saying that this won&#039;t do much is kind of overlooking the point - the fact that it&#039;s an option means that some people will go for it, and the more people go for it the less stigma there is. I know this isn&#039;t the norm, but there are a lot of couples I know (including mine) the mother makes considerably more money, and having this sort of option would be incredibly practical.

As a general rule, though, I&#039;m oddly in favor of options that mean that women aren&#039;t automatically assumed to be the ones doing the bulk of the childcare. So, yay Britain. Now to work so that more people are in a situation where they can take advantage of this... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that&#8217;s pretty great, actually. </p>
<p>I also think that saying that this won&#8217;t do much is kind of overlooking the point &#8211; the fact that it&#8217;s an option means that some people will go for it, and the more people go for it the less stigma there is. I know this isn&#8217;t the norm, but there are a lot of couples I know (including mine) the mother makes considerably more money, and having this sort of option would be incredibly practical.</p>
<p>As a general rule, though, I&#8217;m oddly in favor of options that mean that women aren&#8217;t automatically assumed to be the ones doing the bulk of the childcare. So, yay Britain. Now to work so that more people are in a situation where they can take advantage of this&#8230; :)</p>
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