Comments on: Maureen Dowd on happiness discrepancies

By: Michaelen

Michaelen — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 07:51:10 +0000

I believe the topic of Ms. Dowd’s latest ramblings were covered twenty something years ago by Shirley Maclaine and Deborah Winger in “Terms of Endearment,” which was, of course, written by a man.

That Maureen writes about the subject as though she’s just personally discovered plutonium is simply annoying, nothing more, nothing less.

By: preying mantis

preying mantis — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:37:59 +0000

“I think this is something men grow up knowing: Work is hard, relationships are hard, power is hard.”

…I honestly cannot conceive of how growing up female is even the slightest bit different in that regard.

By: Happy Feet

Happy Feet — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:30:55 +0000

This is also self-reported. Why does anyone assume it’s even remotely truthful??? Women are consistently found to sell their abilities and physical appearance short in self-rating surveys, relative to how they are assessed on some sort of standardized scale or by others. Why wouldn’t it be likely that they do the same with their happiness? I know that personally, I have downplayed my own happiness when asked, because I didn’t want to seem like I was bragging to someone I knew was going through a rough patch, comparatively, or like a bit of a brat with a charmed life. Things are always going well, but not *too* well (of course, I say going well even when things suck).

The converse has been found to be true for men. Men always say they’re better at things than they are – why wouldn’t they consciously or unconsciously over-estimate their happiness? It’s macho to be happy – it means you’re successful, in control, where you want to be. Totally not macho to say you’re sad or depressed or worried about your future.

By: Mary

Mary — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:06:30 +0000

I think that it is a case of be careful for what you wish for. As a woman, I wanted equal professional opportunities…in the largest part, I now have them. I wanted to have a sensitive, emotionally open husband…and, to a large part, I have one. I wanted to feel that access to political power was possible, and it certainly is.

Guess what: Professional life is hard, sometimes it absolutely sucks. I wish my husband would stop “sharing”. And, now that I feel that women have access to political power, I realize and appreciate how complicated and glacial the political process is.

Happiness has been defined as the difference between your expectations and your reality. I thought a career, a more openly emotional spouse, a feeling of being a participant in real power would be fulfilling and exciting. It isn’t. Well, sometimes it is…but lots of time it isn’t.

I think this is something men grow up knowing: Work is hard, relationships are hard, power is hard. I just have to put on my big girl underpants and get over it.

By: peanutbutter

peanutbutter — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:07:25 +0000

Diana: yes, she wasn’t addressing Dowd’s post, but both articles were talking about the same set of data. I love how she skewers it, too ;-)

By: scootermom

scootermom — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:42:27 +0000

My happiest friends are those without children. A few of my family members have been bold enough to tell me that they love their children, but if they had to do it over again, they wouldn’t have had children.

I’m child free and have never regretted that decision.

Hey, I’d even consider myself happy!

By: Ampersand

Ampersand — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:38:40 +0000

It's actually very doubtful that significant change in happiness has happened at all.

By: 10G

10G — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:36:40 +0000

I’m with Preying Mantis….just because women/parents don’t articulate that they wish they hadn’t had kids doesn’t mean the feelings don’t exist. And hasn’t research been done that has indicated that the happiest couples DON’T have children? American culture really needs to examine this seriously. I know why we avoid it–there’s that insecure, irrational niggling mindset of, “Well, what if EVERYONE felt that way, the planet would be UNDERPOPULATED!!”. Oh Christ…fucking horrors. Americans need to get a grip already. Kids DO NOT equal Utopia. Duh.

By: preying mantis

preying mantis — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:15:22 +0000

Didn’t the happiness survey downtick also only occur if you ignored everyone but white respondents? Like, there’d been a fucking massive uptick amongst black women in particular?

““Yet I know very few people who would tell me they wish they hadn’t had kids or who would tell me they feel their kids were the destroyer of their happiness.””

You know, maybe it’s just me, but I look at a statement like the above and think “Yeah, and?” Actually verablizing “If I had it to do over again, my children would not be here” is still an immensely daring thing. There is a very strong social stop to looking at your own children, in whom you’ve invested a great deal and who you presumably love and whose survival and success you have a strong biological imperative to ensure, and think “I would erase this if I could.” It’s difficult enough for women to admit it if they don’t feel some sort of all-consuming love and contentment vis-a-vis their spawn from the second conception occurs.

By: Diana

Diana — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:07:48 +0000

Thanks for that peanutbutter! It isn’t about Maureen Dowd, but I think you could easily replace her name with Arianna Huffington. I love the opening paragraph:

Because of that crappy post at Huffington Post and the whole idea that women are now terribly unhappy because feminism failed them. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that this isn’t what our Arianna is selling us. She’s very unhappy herself, because she is running a website rather than washing floors back at home. But getting more clicks at the expense of feminists is well worth the tears she sheds.