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	<title>Comments on: Racial Inequality and the Rhetoric of Responsibility</title>
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	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/23/racial-inequality-and-the-rhetoric-of-responsibility/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
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		<title>By: B. Adu</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/23/racial-inequality-and-the-rhetoric-of-responsibility/#comment-277660</link>
		<dc:creator>B. Adu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16873#comment-277660</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;less emphasis on academic achievement by one’s peers, or even outright ridicule by one’s peers for “acting white” by valuing education&lt;/i&gt;

Oh please, this is so delusionally vainglorious, I&#039;m almost lost for words.

Non blacks reject plenty of facts and knowlege. The difference is we&#039;re expected to pretend that this always happens to co-incide with the limits of reality; if we don&#039;t go along, much rage ensues. 

Whilst I&#039;ve been taught to value education myself, there is a difference between valuing learning and knowledge and elevating everything you are told-by those in charge of how education is defined-to the status of knowledge or fact, &lt;i&gt;uncritically&lt;/i&gt;.

Conflating the two costs black people, heavily, so at least some awareness of that could been seen as an exercise in self responsibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>less emphasis on academic achievement by one’s peers, or even outright ridicule by one’s peers for “acting white” by valuing education</i></p>
<p>Oh please, this is so delusionally vainglorious, I&#8217;m almost lost for words.</p>
<p>Non blacks reject plenty of facts and knowlege. The difference is we&#8217;re expected to pretend that this always happens to co-incide with the limits of reality; if we don&#8217;t go along, much rage ensues. </p>
<p>Whilst I&#8217;ve been taught to value education myself, there is a difference between valuing learning and knowledge and elevating everything you are told-by those in charge of how education is defined-to the status of knowledge or fact, <i>uncritically</i>.</p>
<p>Conflating the two costs black people, heavily, so at least some awareness of that could been seen as an exercise in self responsibility.</p>
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		<title>By: Katie</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/23/racial-inequality-and-the-rhetoric-of-responsibility/#comment-277593</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16873#comment-277593</guid>
		<description>This is a great post - I too will be referring to this when that damn &quot;take responsibility&quot; argument comes around again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great post &#8211; I too will be referring to this when that damn &#8220;take responsibility&#8221; argument comes around again.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Jeffrey Newman</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/23/racial-inequality-and-the-rhetoric-of-responsibility/#comment-277451</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Jeffrey Newman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16873#comment-277451</guid>
		<description>This puts me in mind of a conversation I had with the Asian American Literature class I am teaching this semester. We were talking about race and ethnicity: how they overlap, how they are distinct, etc. There are several Black people in the class, some who are African-American and some who are from other countries. In the course of the conversation, by way of illustration, I pointed out that while the term Black might apply to all of the people I just mentioned, the term African-American would not, unless the Blacks from other countries chose to identify themselves as African-American. A little later in the conversation--and I am not going to give the blow by blow of how we got there--when I pointed out that it was not like all the Black people in the world formed a committee and decided that they should be known as &lt;i&gt;Black&lt;/i&gt; people, that the racial category &lt;i&gt;Black&lt;/i&gt; was created and imposed on them by &lt;i&gt;white&lt;/i&gt; people, it was kind of wonderful to see all the little light bulbs going off over most of my students&#039; heads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This puts me in mind of a conversation I had with the Asian American Literature class I am teaching this semester. We were talking about race and ethnicity: how they overlap, how they are distinct, etc. There are several Black people in the class, some who are African-American and some who are from other countries. In the course of the conversation, by way of illustration, I pointed out that while the term Black might apply to all of the people I just mentioned, the term African-American would not, unless the Blacks from other countries chose to identify themselves as African-American. A little later in the conversation&#8211;and I am not going to give the blow by blow of how we got there&#8211;when I pointed out that it was not like all the Black people in the world formed a committee and decided that they should be known as <i>Black</i> people, that the racial category <i>Black</i> was created and imposed on them by <i>white</i> people, it was kind of wonderful to see all the little light bulbs going off over most of my students&#8217; heads.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/23/racial-inequality-and-the-rhetoric-of-responsibility/#comment-277446</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16873#comment-277446</guid>
		<description>That is a profoundly astute point, squirrely.  I&#039;ve actually copied and pasted it into a Word document as a resource to refer back to if/when I think about this whole concept again.  Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is a profoundly astute point, squirrely.  I&#8217;ve actually copied and pasted it into a Word document as a resource to refer back to if/when I think about this whole concept again.  Thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: squirrely</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/23/racial-inequality-and-the-rhetoric-of-responsibility/#comment-277442</link>
		<dc:creator>squirrely</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16873#comment-277442</guid>
		<description>This is a really interesting question that I think is not just about &quot;black culture&quot; (obvs).  There are so many interwoven threads in the culture/race/ethnicity mashup.  I don&#039;t think you can say, across the board,that &quot;a racial category is not a group with civic powers.&quot;  In Bosnia or Serbia, for example, there were explicit civic powers that came with your ethnicity. A racial group, even as it is sociologically, not biologically, defined, can in fact become a civic force. 

There is also some history here that needs to be unpacked. Bill Cosby did not invent the idea that &quot;black culture&quot; needs to take care of itself. Malcom X was saying something similar when he argued for community support of Black retailers and professionals, and the pan-African movement did a lot to instill as sense of pride in African Americans by arguing for a common culture and reference point.  

I think we&#039;ve moved in to a more sophisticated place where we can recognize both things as true: There is no monolithic Black Culture, no annual meeting or spokesperson, and yet the presence of racism in our society *does* create certain shared experiences and there are very real cultural trends that emerge.  However, those trends are exploited to make overly broad statements about what it means to be &quot;black&quot; and &quot;white&quot; and the most rigid enforcers of these stereotypes come from popular culture.  Witness the infuriating website &quot;Stuff White People Like.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a really interesting question that I think is not just about &#8220;black culture&#8221; (obvs).  There are so many interwoven threads in the culture/race/ethnicity mashup.  I don&#8217;t think you can say, across the board,that &#8220;a racial category is not a group with civic powers.&#8221;  In Bosnia or Serbia, for example, there were explicit civic powers that came with your ethnicity. A racial group, even as it is sociologically, not biologically, defined, can in fact become a civic force. </p>
<p>There is also some history here that needs to be unpacked. Bill Cosby did not invent the idea that &#8220;black culture&#8221; needs to take care of itself. Malcom X was saying something similar when he argued for community support of Black retailers and professionals, and the pan-African movement did a lot to instill as sense of pride in African Americans by arguing for a common culture and reference point.  </p>
<p>I think we&#8217;ve moved in to a more sophisticated place where we can recognize both things as true: There is no monolithic Black Culture, no annual meeting or spokesperson, and yet the presence of racism in our society *does* create certain shared experiences and there are very real cultural trends that emerge.  However, those trends are exploited to make overly broad statements about what it means to be &#8220;black&#8221; and &#8220;white&#8221; and the most rigid enforcers of these stereotypes come from popular culture.  Witness the infuriating website &#8220;Stuff White People Like.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Laurel</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/23/racial-inequality-and-the-rhetoric-of-responsibility/#comment-277418</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16873#comment-277418</guid>
		<description>Oh come now, we all know that if those kids would just pull their pants up, racism would vanish.

Sorry, I&#039;ve been living back at Mom&#039;s for awhile now. Such close proximity to someone who really believes this crap has left me incapable of anything but snark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh come now, we all know that if those kids would just pull their pants up, racism would vanish.</p>
<p>Sorry, I&#8217;ve been living back at Mom&#8217;s for awhile now. Such close proximity to someone who really believes this crap has left me incapable of anything but snark.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/23/racial-inequality-and-the-rhetoric-of-responsibility/#comment-277386</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 04:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16873#comment-277386</guid>
		<description>G.D. is exactly right on every count. The idea of a distinct &quot;black culture&quot; that we can, as Jut says &quot;statistically&quot; measure, is ridiculous.  Cultural dispositions emerge out of unique contexts, which G.D. rightfully points out.

On a more factual level, these &quot;statistically proven&quot; facts you bring up are highly contentious.  The issue of disproportionate levels of black incarceration for example: Are they more likely to offend? Given harsher sentences? More likely to be convicted, relative to whites? Is the increase in incarceration a cause of more offenders, or is it shifts in the punitive justice system? Or is it the expansion of prisons?  On out of wedlock births: Is it that blacks and/or poor people are more inclined, culturally, to have babies out of wedlock? Or is it that the number of marriageable men are lower, relative to whites--a function of the decline in union membership (itself a function of changing labor policy), economic opportunities, and depressed demand for non-skilled workers?

&quot;The other side,&quot; as you write, isn&#039;t exactly as clear--or even as &quot;cultural--as you suggest.  And that of course, was part of the point of the post: the idea of a &quot;black community&quot; or &quot;black culture&quot; is an ideological construct.  There are many communities, many cultures, and all are situated in particular contexts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>G.D. is exactly right on every count. The idea of a distinct &#8220;black culture&#8221; that we can, as Jut says &#8220;statistically&#8221; measure, is ridiculous.  Cultural dispositions emerge out of unique contexts, which G.D. rightfully points out.</p>
<p>On a more factual level, these &#8220;statistically proven&#8221; facts you bring up are highly contentious.  The issue of disproportionate levels of black incarceration for example: Are they more likely to offend? Given harsher sentences? More likely to be convicted, relative to whites? Is the increase in incarceration a cause of more offenders, or is it shifts in the punitive justice system? Or is it the expansion of prisons?  On out of wedlock births: Is it that blacks and/or poor people are more inclined, culturally, to have babies out of wedlock? Or is it that the number of marriageable men are lower, relative to whites&#8211;a function of the decline in union membership (itself a function of changing labor policy), economic opportunities, and depressed demand for non-skilled workers?</p>
<p>&#8220;The other side,&#8221; as you write, isn&#8217;t exactly as clear&#8211;or even as &#8220;cultural&#8211;as you suggest.  And that of course, was part of the point of the post: the idea of a &#8220;black community&#8221; or &#8220;black culture&#8221; is an ideological construct.  There are many communities, many cultures, and all are situated in particular contexts.</p>
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		<title>By: G.D.</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/23/racial-inequality-and-the-rhetoric-of-responsibility/#comment-277357</link>
		<dc:creator>G.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 02:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16873#comment-277357</guid>
		<description>Oh, boy. 

JutGory:

&lt;blockquote&gt; Statistically speaking, the “black community” does have problems that can be identified (high rates of out-of-wedlock births, high incarceration rates, poor school performance, and black-on-black violence).
Take education, for example. It is fair to say that some of those problems can be tied to societal factors (poorly-funded urban schools), but they can also be tied to cultural factors (less emphasis on academic achievement by one’s peers, or even outright ridicule by one’s peers for “acting white” by valuing education). To fix the problem, both sides have to be addressed.
That WILL NOT happen if it is presumed that any criticism of the “black community” springs from racism.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You&#039;re showing your hand here.  The first and most obvious problem with your argument is that the dysfunctional black pathology narrative&lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; in fact racist. The &quot;acting white&quot; meme is the laziest kind of cultural analysis --- it assumes that there is something specifically &lt;i&gt;black&lt;/i&gt; about disdain academic/intellectual achievement; white kids and Asian kids apparently never get picked on by their peers/classmates for being nerdy and bookish. Right. This stance also assumes that this alleged penchant for anti-intellectualism is &lt;i&gt;more&lt;/i&gt; pronounced among black people.  (I seem think of a certain former president and a certain former Alaskan senator whose disdain for book learnin&#039; marked them among lots of people as just &quot;regular folk&quot; who didn&#039;t put on airs.)

Let&#039;s consider this: black kids are less likely to be placed in AP/honors classes (and black males, especially, are more likely to be seriously disciplined than their nonblack counterparts for disruptions). What happens is that the few black kids in honors classes --- or in more moneyed, predominantly white school districts --- end up socializing with the white peers with whom they spend much of their class/school time, and are picked on for not exhibiting sufficient racial solidarity. It&#039;s happened to all of my friends who went to school in the suburbs. Is it problematic? Absolutely. But it&#039;s a fundamentally different than equating &lt;i&gt;academic achievement with racial treason,&lt;/i&gt;  and it is always conveniently interpreted by those ostracized/wounded black teenagers (and social critics with agendas) as hating on those kids for &quot;doing well.&quot;  

I say this as a black dude who went to an academically rigorous Philadelphia public high school that was overwhelmingly African American --- that idea is complete nonsense. But there are obvious reasons why that narrative gets so much attention. 

In summation: GTFOHWTBS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, boy. </p>
<p>JutGory:</p>
<blockquote><p> Statistically speaking, the “black community” does have problems that can be identified (high rates of out-of-wedlock births, high incarceration rates, poor school performance, and black-on-black violence).<br />
Take education, for example. It is fair to say that some of those problems can be tied to societal factors (poorly-funded urban schools), but they can also be tied to cultural factors (less emphasis on academic achievement by one’s peers, or even outright ridicule by one’s peers for “acting white” by valuing education). To fix the problem, both sides have to be addressed.<br />
That WILL NOT happen if it is presumed that any criticism of the “black community” springs from racism.</p></blockquote>
<p>You&#8217;re showing your hand here.  The first and most obvious problem with your argument is that the dysfunctional black pathology narrative<i>is</i> in fact racist. The &#8220;acting white&#8221; meme is the laziest kind of cultural analysis &#8212; it assumes that there is something specifically <i>black</i> about disdain academic/intellectual achievement; white kids and Asian kids apparently never get picked on by their peers/classmates for being nerdy and bookish. Right. This stance also assumes that this alleged penchant for anti-intellectualism is <i>more</i> pronounced among black people.  (I seem think of a certain former president and a certain former Alaskan senator whose disdain for book learnin&#8217; marked them among lots of people as just &#8220;regular folk&#8221; who didn&#8217;t put on airs.)</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s consider this: black kids are less likely to be placed in AP/honors classes (and black males, especially, are more likely to be seriously disciplined than their nonblack counterparts for disruptions). What happens is that the few black kids in honors classes &#8212; or in more moneyed, predominantly white school districts &#8212; end up socializing with the white peers with whom they spend much of their class/school time, and are picked on for not exhibiting sufficient racial solidarity. It&#8217;s happened to all of my friends who went to school in the suburbs. Is it problematic? Absolutely. But it&#8217;s a fundamentally different than equating <i>academic achievement with racial treason,</i>  and it is always conveniently interpreted by those ostracized/wounded black teenagers (and social critics with agendas) as hating on those kids for &#8220;doing well.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I say this as a black dude who went to an academically rigorous Philadelphia public high school that was overwhelmingly African American &#8212; that idea is complete nonsense. But there are obvious reasons why that narrative gets so much attention. </p>
<p>In summation: GTFOHWTBS.</p>
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		<title>By: JutGory</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/23/racial-inequality-and-the-rhetoric-of-responsibility/#comment-277265</link>
		<dc:creator>JutGory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 21:27:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16873#comment-277265</guid>
		<description>That is fine to say that there is no &quot;black community&quot; and that it has no ability to fix its own problems and that it has no collective agency.  But, then, if non-blacks are expected to be fixing those problems, they should not be lightly accused of racism for pointing out what those problems are.
Statistically speaking, the &quot;black community&quot; does have problems that can be identified (high rates of out-of-wedlock births, high incarceration rates, poor school performance, and black-on-black violence).  
Take education, for example.  It is fair to say that some of those problems can be tied to societal factors (poorly-funded urban schools), but they can also be tied to cultural factors (less emphasis on academic achievement by one&#039;s peers, or even outright ridicule by one&#039;s peers for &quot;acting white&quot; by valuing education).  To fix the problem, both sides have to be addressed.
That WILL NOT happen if it is presumed that any criticism of the &quot;black community&quot; springs from racism.
-Jut</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is fine to say that there is no &#8220;black community&#8221; and that it has no ability to fix its own problems and that it has no collective agency.  But, then, if non-blacks are expected to be fixing those problems, they should not be lightly accused of racism for pointing out what those problems are.<br />
Statistically speaking, the &#8220;black community&#8221; does have problems that can be identified (high rates of out-of-wedlock births, high incarceration rates, poor school performance, and black-on-black violence).<br />
Take education, for example.  It is fair to say that some of those problems can be tied to societal factors (poorly-funded urban schools), but they can also be tied to cultural factors (less emphasis on academic achievement by one&#8217;s peers, or even outright ridicule by one&#8217;s peers for &#8220;acting white&#8221; by valuing education).  To fix the problem, both sides have to be addressed.<br />
That WILL NOT happen if it is presumed that any criticism of the &#8220;black community&#8221; springs from racism.<br />
-Jut</p>
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		<title>By: Whu</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/23/racial-inequality-and-the-rhetoric-of-responsibility/#comment-277257</link>
		<dc:creator>Whu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16873#comment-277257</guid>
		<description>The &quot;rhetoric of black communal responsibility&quot; is just that ... RHETORIC.  First of all, Bill Cosby is not the spokesperson and never has been for black America.  He is a comedian by trade.  A good one, but a comic nonetheless.  Furthermore, if he were going to seriously take on the role of a full-time activist he would have done it earlier in his career.  Unfortunately, the untimely and tragic death of his son Ennis is what has triggered the latter public obligation to be a spokesperson as Mr. Cosby continues the Ennis Cosby Foundation in his late son&#039;s name.  That is what the upstart &quot;civil rights&quot; career of Bill Cosby is all about.  He certainly means well, and still is one of America&#039;s favorite sons, but when he speaks now, if you listen closely enough, you hear a tinge of senility setting in, just a tinge.  My response is not to be critical of Mr. Cosby, it&#039;s intended to let the masses know (or the few who might read your blog) that Black America is doing fine.  And before the rest of America can in any way shape or form, critique Black America, it must get its own house in order, and this includes other black people who choose to belitte their own race.

We are all branches of the same tree so when you are critical of Black or White Americans, you do damage to the entire Human Tree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;rhetoric of black communal responsibility&#8221; is just that &#8230; RHETORIC.  First of all, Bill Cosby is not the spokesperson and never has been for black America.  He is a comedian by trade.  A good one, but a comic nonetheless.  Furthermore, if he were going to seriously take on the role of a full-time activist he would have done it earlier in his career.  Unfortunately, the untimely and tragic death of his son Ennis is what has triggered the latter public obligation to be a spokesperson as Mr. Cosby continues the Ennis Cosby Foundation in his late son&#8217;s name.  That is what the upstart &#8220;civil rights&#8221; career of Bill Cosby is all about.  He certainly means well, and still is one of America&#8217;s favorite sons, but when he speaks now, if you listen closely enough, you hear a tinge of senility setting in, just a tinge.  My response is not to be critical of Mr. Cosby, it&#8217;s intended to let the masses know (or the few who might read your blog) that Black America is doing fine.  And before the rest of America can in any way shape or form, critique Black America, it must get its own house in order, and this includes other black people who choose to belitte their own race.</p>
<p>We are all branches of the same tree so when you are critical of Black or White Americans, you do damage to the entire Human Tree.</p>
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