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	<title>Comments on: Polanski Defend-a-Thon, Part 2</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/29/polanski-defend-a-thon-part-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/29/polanski-defend-a-thon-part-2/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 07:12:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: shenanigan</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/29/polanski-defend-a-thon-part-2/#comment-279190</link>
		<dc:creator>shenanigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 21:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16946#comment-279190</guid>
		<description>Look, like I said. I&#039;d love to see him punished. I am not trying to find him a loop hole. I feel reallly, truly torn. 

I am just trying to  reconcile this with the multiple times I&#039;ve argued as an advocate for sexual assault survivors that the police should not be brought into the room just cause a woman ask for a rape kit, that when we answer phone lines about rape cases that we never pressure anyone to press charges. That it needs to be her choice-- when and how she brings it to trial.

Sure the fact that this is big and public does change the situation. It seems, as PrettyAmiable mentions, there is more than just the survivors well being on the line.

Its complicated for me. This caught some of my feelings: http://sugartheshop.blogspot.com/2009_09_01_archive.html?zx=b0e798154935e1dd</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, like I said. I&#8217;d love to see him punished. I am not trying to find him a loop hole. I feel reallly, truly torn. </p>
<p>I am just trying to  reconcile this with the multiple times I&#8217;ve argued as an advocate for sexual assault survivors that the police should not be brought into the room just cause a woman ask for a rape kit, that when we answer phone lines about rape cases that we never pressure anyone to press charges. That it needs to be her choice&#8211; when and how she brings it to trial.</p>
<p>Sure the fact that this is big and public does change the situation. It seems, as PrettyAmiable mentions, there is more than just the survivors well being on the line.</p>
<p>Its complicated for me. This caught some of my feelings: <a href="http://sugartheshop.blogspot.com/2009_09_01_archive.html?zx=b0e798154935e1dd" rel="nofollow">http://sugartheshop.blogspot.com/2009_09_01_archive.html?zx=b0e798154935e1dd</a></p>
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		<title>By: javier</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/29/polanski-defend-a-thon-part-2/#comment-279024</link>
		<dc:creator>javier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 03:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16946#comment-279024</guid>
		<description>another &quot;progressive&quot; website that has only the defender/apologist  take on things.really sickening.
:
BuzzFlash.org &#124; Progressive News and Commentary with an Attitude ...Sep 30, 2009 ... Jacqueline Marcus: 9/11 Cover-up, Torture, Wiretapping, BUT Roman Polanski Is More Important to the U.S. Justice Department ...

http://blog.buzzflash.com/contributors/2081</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>another &#8220;progressive&#8221; website that has only the defender/apologist  take on things.really sickening.<br />
:<br />
BuzzFlash.org | Progressive News and Commentary with an Attitude &#8230;Sep 30, 2009 &#8230; Jacqueline Marcus: 9/11 Cover-up, Torture, Wiretapping, BUT Roman Polanski Is More Important to the U.S. Justice Department &#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.buzzflash.com/contributors/2081" rel="nofollow">http://blog.buzzflash.com/contributors/2081</a></p>
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		<title>By: plain(s)feminist</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/29/polanski-defend-a-thon-part-2/#comment-278812</link>
		<dc:creator>plain(s)feminist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 05:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16946#comment-278812</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If Polanski decided tomorrow that he forgave Charles Manson, would you advocate letting Manson out of prison? After all, he’s an old man too.&lt;/i&gt;
This is an excellent analogy.  Thank you for giving me the perfect thing to say to the next person who brings up that &quot;but she doesn&#039;t want him to be punished&quot; crap.

I am just sick over this whole thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If Polanski decided tomorrow that he forgave Charles Manson, would you advocate letting Manson out of prison? After all, he’s an old man too.</i><br />
This is an excellent analogy.  Thank you for giving me the perfect thing to say to the next person who brings up that &#8220;but she doesn&#8217;t want him to be punished&#8221; crap.</p>
<p>I am just sick over this whole thing.</p>
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		<title>By: PrettyAmiable</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/29/polanski-defend-a-thon-part-2/#comment-278782</link>
		<dc:creator>PrettyAmiable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 02:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16946#comment-278782</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d agree if circumstances were different, shenanigan. But I can tell you that I spent an hour in my shrink&#039;s office crying over THIS. Over how I&#039;m not heard about how wrong my own assaults were when people with considerably more clout justify it away.

I don&#039;t want Samantha to feel victimized again, but it seems to be a choice between her and me and others like me who feel increasingly hopeless with regards to American society.

As an aside, I haven&#039;t seen this mentioned: http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20309753,00.html?xid=rss-fullcontentcnn

Schwarzennegger has daughters my age, one of whom is at my alma mater. 

Cheers. It feels good to be proud of someone willing to speak out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d agree if circumstances were different, shenanigan. But I can tell you that I spent an hour in my shrink&#8217;s office crying over THIS. Over how I&#8217;m not heard about how wrong my own assaults were when people with considerably more clout justify it away.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want Samantha to feel victimized again, but it seems to be a choice between her and me and others like me who feel increasingly hopeless with regards to American society.</p>
<p>As an aside, I haven&#8217;t seen this mentioned: <a href="http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20309753,00.html?xid=rss-fullcontentcnn" rel="nofollow">http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20309753,00.html?xid=rss-fullcontentcnn</a></p>
<p>Schwarzennegger has daughters my age, one of whom is at my alma mater. </p>
<p>Cheers. It feels good to be proud of someone willing to speak out.</p>
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		<title>By: shenanigan</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/29/polanski-defend-a-thon-part-2/#comment-278771</link>
		<dc:creator>shenanigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 00:15:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16946#comment-278771</guid>
		<description>Here is what I am struggling with:

I am a survivor of sexual assault. I also am a survival of taking a sexual assault case into a campus trial, at which point it became very public. That public trial was nearly as traumatic and painful as the assault itself. When friends ask me if they should press charges against a man who has raped them, I hesitate... I tell them to think hard about it.

Not because I don&#039;t want to see that man punished. I do. I really, really, do. But because I don&#039;t want to see the rape survivor suffer in order to make it happen. &#039;Cause we all know how survivors get treated-- in the media, in the courts, etc. Its not nice. Its not fun.

So when I here a rape survivor say she wants the whole thing dropped I have a hard time not wanting to listen to her. I still have my doubts.... Why is she saying this? Where is this sentiment coming from?  And my own desire to see a rapist publically punished and shamed for the sake of the larger case of rape.

But even on this large scale I want to see that survivor empowered. How do we do this? How do we support her right now?

I don&#039;t have an answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is what I am struggling with:</p>
<p>I am a survivor of sexual assault. I also am a survival of taking a sexual assault case into a campus trial, at which point it became very public. That public trial was nearly as traumatic and painful as the assault itself. When friends ask me if they should press charges against a man who has raped them, I hesitate&#8230; I tell them to think hard about it.</p>
<p>Not because I don&#8217;t want to see that man punished. I do. I really, really, do. But because I don&#8217;t want to see the rape survivor suffer in order to make it happen. &#8216;Cause we all know how survivors get treated&#8211; in the media, in the courts, etc. Its not nice. Its not fun.</p>
<p>So when I here a rape survivor say she wants the whole thing dropped I have a hard time not wanting to listen to her. I still have my doubts&#8230;. Why is she saying this? Where is this sentiment coming from?  And my own desire to see a rapist publically punished and shamed for the sake of the larger case of rape.</p>
<p>But even on this large scale I want to see that survivor empowered. How do we do this? How do we support her right now?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have an answer.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam O.</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/29/polanski-defend-a-thon-part-2/#comment-278770</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam O.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 00:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16946#comment-278770</guid>
		<description>Petition &lt;b&gt;Supporting&lt;/b&gt; the Extradition of Roman Polanski

http://thomashawk.com/2009/09/petition-supporting-the-extradition-of-roman-polanski.html

It&#039;s totally ad-hoc, but real. Thomas Hawk is apparently a tech CEO who is aghast at the apologists. No reason not to do this as well as join Facebook groups. I have heard the Obama administration does pay attention to Facebook, e.g. was encouraged by postings supporting a public health care option.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Petition <b>Supporting</b> the Extradition of Roman Polanski</p>
<p><a href="http://thomashawk.com/2009/09/petition-supporting-the-extradition-of-roman-polanski.html" rel="nofollow">http://thomashawk.com/2009/09/petition-supporting-the-extradition-of-roman-polanski.html</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s totally ad-hoc, but real. Thomas Hawk is apparently a tech CEO who is aghast at the apologists. No reason not to do this as well as join Facebook groups. I have heard the Obama administration does pay attention to Facebook, e.g. was encouraged by postings supporting a public health care option.</p>
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		<title>By: W. Kiernan</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/29/polanski-defend-a-thon-part-2/#comment-278743</link>
		<dc:creator>W. Kiernan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 20:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16946#comment-278743</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Patrick Goldstein:&lt;/b&gt; &lt;i&gt;...The real tragedy is that he will always, till his death, be snubbed and stalked and confronted by people who think the price he has already paid isn’t enough.&lt;/i&gt;

Well I can&#039;t speak for anybody else, but as far as I&#039;m concerned, if:

1.) they bring Polanski back to L.A.,
2.) drag him in front of a judge,
3.) have the judge declare the sentence for the crime to which he confessed and pled guilty thirty years ago,
4.) make him serve the sentence - just like as if he were any ordinary non-millionaire who was convicted of the same crime most certainly would - and finally,
5.) let him out of jail with his sentence served in full,

then at that point I&#039;d say the price he&#039;d have paid was enough.  Don&#039;t wanna do the time? then don&#039;t do the crime.  Wanna do the crime? then don&#039;t whine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Patrick Goldstein:</b> <i>&#8230;The real tragedy is that he will always, till his death, be snubbed and stalked and confronted by people who think the price he has already paid isn’t enough.</i></p>
<p>Well I can&#8217;t speak for anybody else, but as far as I&#8217;m concerned, if:</p>
<p>1.) they bring Polanski back to L.A.,<br />
2.) drag him in front of a judge,<br />
3.) have the judge declare the sentence for the crime to which he confessed and pled guilty thirty years ago,<br />
4.) make him serve the sentence &#8211; just like as if he were any ordinary non-millionaire who was convicted of the same crime most certainly would &#8211; and finally,<br />
5.) let him out of jail with his sentence served in full,</p>
<p>then at that point I&#8217;d say the price he&#8217;d have paid was enough.  Don&#8217;t wanna do the time? then don&#8217;t do the crime.  Wanna do the crime? then don&#8217;t whine.</p>
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		<title>By: Faith from F.N.</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/29/polanski-defend-a-thon-part-2/#comment-278677</link>
		<dc:creator>Faith from F.N.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 02:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16946#comment-278677</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s another petition demanding that Polanski face justice here:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/art-does-not-excuse-rape-polanski-must-face-justice

&quot;I really disagree with your politics in general, but thank God you guys are getting on the correct side of this one.

Props.&quot;

Well, thank God that we got it right for once. It&#039;s good to know us dumbass feminists are good for something, huh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s another petition demanding that Polanski face justice here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/art-does-not-excuse-rape-polanski-must-face-justice" rel="nofollow">http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/art-does-not-excuse-rape-polanski-must-face-justice</a></p>
<p>&#8220;I really disagree with your politics in general, but thank God you guys are getting on the correct side of this one.</p>
<p>Props.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, thank God that we got it right for once. It&#8217;s good to know us dumbass feminists are good for something, huh?</p>
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		<title>By: Hockey &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Penny Red: Tea and sympathy.</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/29/polanski-defend-a-thon-part-2/#comment-278662</link>
		<dc:creator>Hockey &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Penny Red: Tea and sympathy.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 23:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16946#comment-278662</guid>
		<description>[...] McEwan and Jill at Feministe give us the Roman Polanski defend-a-thon (trigger [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] McEwan and Jill at Feministe give us the Roman Polanski defend-a-thon (trigger [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/09/29/polanski-defend-a-thon-part-2/#comment-278654</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 22:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=16946#comment-278654</guid>
		<description>As is so often the case in matters of law and life, Zuzu is right.  Polanski can be charged for fleeing, he can now be sentenced for the crime he pled to in addition.  On top of that, if he had shown up for sentencing, he would have had the other charges dismissed, but they probably were never dismissed because he fled, and while he is a fugitive the statute probably tolled.  The original indictment was five counts, including sodomy and rape.  He had a deal to make those go away, and potentially serve time for &quot;only&quot; statutory rape, with a strong likelihood that he would get time served.  Instead of take that very lenient deal and some risk of further incarceration, he became a fugitive and lived in luxury in the land of his birth for more than thirty years.  

Lots of people who molest children have horrible personal histories.  If they are not rich and famous, nobody gives a damn about their stories. 

He didn&#039;t &quot;just&quot; use his position to have sex with a thirteen year old who was sober and willing.  He didn&#039;t &quot;just&quot; give quaaludes to an 18 year old to use her intoxication to lower her inhibitions to sex with him.  He didn&#039;t &quot;just&quot; sexually penetrate a sober adult who said &quot;no.&quot;  He committed rape ALL THREE WAYS.  He forcibly penetrated a child to whom he had deliberately given alcohol and quaaludes and who still said &quot;no.&quot;  Do that, go to jail.  Even if you flee and are arrested thirty years later; even if you are a famous and talented filmmaker.  That&#039;s my position.  No buts.  It makes me sad that this is controversial.

The victim does not get to turn off the process of criminal justice.  It&#039;s not a civil process.  It&#039;s not her v. him.  It&#039;s the People of the State of California, through the DA, versus the Defendant.  Rape is not a civil tort.  It&#039;s a criminal offense:  a breach of his obligations not just to the victim but to the whole community.

If we as a community say, &quot;hey, sure, it&#039;s not a good thing, but if you&#039;re rich, famous and talented and flee the jurisdiction, we&#039;ll just let it slide forever,&quot; we&#039;re saying we as a community -- as an American polity -- don&#039;t really think it&#039;s that bad.  And as I look around, that clearly is what is being said.  It makes me sick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As is so often the case in matters of law and life, Zuzu is right.  Polanski can be charged for fleeing, he can now be sentenced for the crime he pled to in addition.  On top of that, if he had shown up for sentencing, he would have had the other charges dismissed, but they probably were never dismissed because he fled, and while he is a fugitive the statute probably tolled.  The original indictment was five counts, including sodomy and rape.  He had a deal to make those go away, and potentially serve time for &#8220;only&#8221; statutory rape, with a strong likelihood that he would get time served.  Instead of take that very lenient deal and some risk of further incarceration, he became a fugitive and lived in luxury in the land of his birth for more than thirty years.  </p>
<p>Lots of people who molest children have horrible personal histories.  If they are not rich and famous, nobody gives a damn about their stories. </p>
<p>He didn&#8217;t &#8220;just&#8221; use his position to have sex with a thirteen year old who was sober and willing.  He didn&#8217;t &#8220;just&#8221; give quaaludes to an 18 year old to use her intoxication to lower her inhibitions to sex with him.  He didn&#8217;t &#8220;just&#8221; sexually penetrate a sober adult who said &#8220;no.&#8221;  He committed rape ALL THREE WAYS.  He forcibly penetrated a child to whom he had deliberately given alcohol and quaaludes and who still said &#8220;no.&#8221;  Do that, go to jail.  Even if you flee and are arrested thirty years later; even if you are a famous and talented filmmaker.  That&#8217;s my position.  No buts.  It makes me sad that this is controversial.</p>
<p>The victim does not get to turn off the process of criminal justice.  It&#8217;s not a civil process.  It&#8217;s not her v. him.  It&#8217;s the People of the State of California, through the DA, versus the Defendant.  Rape is not a civil tort.  It&#8217;s a criminal offense:  a breach of his obligations not just to the victim but to the whole community.</p>
<p>If we as a community say, &#8220;hey, sure, it&#8217;s not a good thing, but if you&#8217;re rich, famous and talented and flee the jurisdiction, we&#8217;ll just let it slide forever,&#8221; we&#8217;re saying we as a community &#8212; as an American polity &#8212; don&#8217;t really think it&#8217;s that bad.  And as I look around, that clearly is what is being said.  It makes me sick.</p>
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