Laurie: In looking back over the thread I saw you wrote a rather lengthy reply to me several pages back and I missed it; I apologize. I really didn’t see it at the time.

Also wanted to reply to Jesurgislac here.

“Coffeegirl asked twice : ‘I’ll ask again…By taking my husband’s name, how exactly am I sending a message to the rest of the world that the historical oppression of women is ok?’

That question has already been answered. You just didn’t like the answer. But no one has any new answers for you, beyond what you’ve already got and didn’t like in this very long thread, so why should people bother to answer you again when you have made clear by asking the question that you’ll pay no attention to answers you don’t like?”

Sorry that you saw my questions as insincere. They weren’t. I read the replies to that particular question and didn’t/still don’t buy the logic given. We just disagree. Or it could be KJG has a point…

KJG says: “Coffeegirl: The answer to your question is all right here in this discussion. I’m not suggesting that you aren’t reading the comments, but I do agree with Rachel II that you just don’t seem to be at a point in your life where you can understand.”

Perhaps not. Thank yall anyhow for the interesting discussion. :)

My sister, who does not identify as a feminist, recently got married. We had talked about the name-changing issue before that. She had confided that she liked her name and didn’t want to change it, but she thought others would object. I tried to encourage her to do what SHE wanted to do and gave her my own reasons why I would never change my name. I also sent her this thread as food for thought.

I just found out that she is keeping her name. She’s already had to deal with shit for it. Conservative friends asking her why, colleagues asking questions. She’s a teacher and her husband works in the same school. A lot of her young students, fellow teachers, and even her principal assumed she would be Mrs. HisLastName when she got back from the wedding.

But she’s keeping it and I’m beyond happy for her. I’m happy because she did what SHE wanted to do. I’m happy because she has been brave enough to have conversations about this and go against the grain. And I’m happy that she’s showing her young students that there are other options for women. I give her so much credit. She’s not in the most liberal of places and is being questioned about this right and left, but she has courage to stand up to patriarchal tradition and say that her name is part of her identity and she’s keeping it.

So thanks everyone. I think that this discussion has helped give her some of the encouragement and support she needed.

My resolve is this: Should I ever get published, I will use my partner’s last name as a kind of pseudonym. It’s just way catchier. (That is, if he’s ok with that. I’d better ask him first.)
But should I ever, ever marry, I won’t go the hassle of changing all my details, ID cards, etc. Especially because I am, apart from my silly brother, the only left of our family to still bear the name – which doesn’t mean that I particularly like it, though. So, I won’t change because I am lazy, for when it comes to aesthetics, I prefer his by a long shot. And in terms of initials, it wouldn’t even matter because they’d still be the same.

For me, it’s all a matter of convenience vs. attractiveness of choice (and Mr. agrees), and I feel pretty much pragmatic about the whole thing. Maybe here in Germany it’s not such a big deal and that’s why I don’t think it’s such a particularly unfeminist thing to do, changing your name.

That being said, I believe that not so long ago couples weren’t allowed to go by different names unless the wife hyphenated hers and his. Now, that is effed up. But today? We can choose whichever we like best. And so I will do, and the first person stepping up judging me or my personal preferences (whatsoever inclined) will get a piece of my mind. Because, if you ask me, it’s just not your business.

Some friends got shocked when I said, “In marriage, the woman’s name, career, and orgasm must come first. And if you believe that marriage means the two become one, make sure the woman makes more money and has more orgasms – and that the man makes more career sacrifices and takes all the birth control responsiblity.”

I’m not shocked by that study that showed that 70& of the population believes the women needs to take the man’s name, and that 50% believe it should be a law. America is a right wing country.

When I was in high school and the feminist movement started calling women “Ms,” I felt uncomfortable with it. I considered myself a feminist but didn’t think I had to stop being called “Miss.” But after some friends addressed me as Ms, I started getting more comfortable with it and realized that titles like Miss and Mrs were @#$%^ oppressive. That experience taught me to stop arguing about names and just call married women by their birth names. It also taught me that if I REALLY want to make a point, I should call married men by their spouse’s names, even when it makes them squirm.

Some women on this list have said, “Marriage means that two become one.” A nice sweet thought, but in reality, that often means the man is the one. I believe that the old English Common Law actually said, “When a man and woman marry, the two become one and the man is the one.”

Believe it or not, I have never gotten any flack for doing this sort of thing. Yes, women who says they freely “chose” to take their husband’s name feel perfectly fine when I address them by their birth name. :-)

If a married feminist woman says, “I compromised because I didn’t have the energy or support system to deal with all the hassle,” I understand perfectly and don’t think she is less of a feminist. But if she says, “It is my choice and it should be respected,” I cringe.

Naming is an important issue and feminists have a right to “make a stink” about it.

Second, what is a conumdrum for me is the issue of naming children. I can’t see an easy solution. Someone in most couples will have to concede and there are good arguments on both sides, e.g. a system of genealogy is a system of genealogy whether matriarchal or patriarchal and giving birth does require a lot of sacrifice, but so does being a father. Thoughts?

@comment 152, here is what the director of civil status says on Quebec province (the org responsible for all legal changes, including marriage, death, birth etc).

Spouses’ names

Both spouses keep their birth names after marriage and continue to exercise their civil rights under that name, i.e. they must use their birth name in contracts, on credit cards, on their driver’s licence, etc.

This rule applies to all spouses domiciled in Québec, even if they were married outside Québec.

However, women married before April 2, 1981 who were already using their husband’s surname before that date may continue to exercise their civil rights under their married name.

Sex of the spouses

In Québec, two people wishing to make a public commitment to live together may form a civil marriage, whether they are of the same or the opposite sex.

—————

Note: Civil marriage is *exactly* the same as a religious marriage in Quebec, in every single way (except where its celebrated and whom can celebrate it – allowing for more options). It’s not separate but equal or anything like this, all rights and obligations apply the same.

Note2: My parents married in August 1981, my mother was not legally allowed to change her name to my father’s.

Note3: About being able to change otherwisely by legal ways:

Through administrative course of action: the Directeur de l’état civil

The Directeur de l’état civil handles all name change applications that do not fall under the jurisdiction of the court. However, there must be a serious reason for making an application. Serious reasons include:

* You have been using for at least five years a name other than the one that appears on your birth certificate
* Your name is of foreign origin or is too difficult to pronounce or write in its original form
* Your name invites ridicule or has become infamous

The Directeur de l’état civil can also study an application for a name change for any other reason that you present.

It is possible to request a change of name to add a part of your surname to your minor child’s surname if you are the father or mother declared in the child’s act of birth.

——-
Court can do: if abandonment, adopting a child or other peculiar situations, not to get husband’s name.

Note4: Those restrictions also make it quite hard for trans people to change their first name. Proof of Gender Identity Disorder must be given, it costs 300$ and takes 8-9 months total time to process, it can also be refused.

But her firm convictions gave way to practicality when she actually got married. She confided that she still did not want to change her name, and would prefer not to, but she said her fiance wouldn’t budge. She said it was extremely important to him that she take his name, and he freaked out when she said she didn’t want to “take his name,” so she changed it. Right after the wedding, she changed her name on Facebook, and it made me cringe to see it there on her profile, in direct contradiction to her stated wishes. I intentionally neglected changing her name in my phone for about six months before I finally started to feel vindictive and bowed to the inevitability of the change.

I still very much intend to keep my own name, though, and I also don’t intend to pick a guy who’d flip out over something like me not wanting to change my name to his. I respect my friend’s decision to give in, I guess, but it seemed pretty evident to me that she had been coerced out of her original, independent, feminist decision. If anything, this has only strengthened my convictions that naming is a political act, and that I won’t ever jettison my last name – hyphens might be cool, though.