There’s variations on the meaning of aggressive here. In the mind of the man doing it, it’s not aggressive. In that it holds no anger, no tension. It’s not intended as a threat. In the mind of the woman receiving it, it’s threatening. I take it as a threat personally part for the reason you mention(the depersonalizing), and part because I don’t know if there -is- a real threat. That same stare can be a prelude to assault.

I realize you don’t mean a subtle glance, and that’s why I made the distinction.

As far as whether men know this puts women off, I don’t know. Some do, obviously. I think many don’t though. I think they know it puts -some- women off. Hence my mentioning that ‘either there is something wrong with them, or something wrong with -her-’. And guess which he’d rather believe.

I think many men get told this actually pretty infrequently. And usually it’s only in a very limited number of contexts. And this leads to the possibility of them thinking that the only people bothered by it are women who there is something ‘wrong’ with. Uptight, man-hating, angry feminists, if you’ll excuse my use of that disgusting trope.

The fact that they say that ‘one day it will stop and then we’ll be sorry’ actually lends credence to my point. This seems to indicate that they think that it -should- be flattering. And are clueless as to why women are upset. Many men think that they themselves would feel good, feel flattered, if an attractive woman was overtly checking them out. So why don’t women feel the same?

I’ve known many men who in other manners are fairly polite, but who stare. When I’ve pointed it out to them, the response is often along the lines of ‘What, I was only looking’, ‘She was hot, I’m a guy’, ‘I couldn’t help it’, and worse ‘you like women too, you know what it’s like’. All horrible responses, and I’m never sure what the hell to say to them. I’ve had discussions where guys have claimed that ‘they’d feel flattered’.

What seems to be going on is not an intentional attack, rather a complete disregard. The feelings of the woman in question are just not taken into account. And I’ve never been able to figure out what to say to make them see just how wrong this is.

But that is aggressive. When a man stares at a woman so openly, he’s disregarding her humanity and treating her disrespectfully. When you reduce someone to an object, to a thing, you’re depersonalizing them. I take that as a threat.

I’m not talking about surreptitiously checking someone out. I’m talking about openly staring at someone. As you said, women do it surreptitiously because, well, openly staring at someone is rude. Except, apparently, when men do it to women.

And I also dispute that men don’t know about how much this kind of starting puts women off. We say it all the time, and we’re told to just deal with it, that we should be flattered, that one day it will stop and then we’ll be sorry. That tells me not that men don’t get that it’s threatening, but that they don’t care.

When a man stares at a woman that he finds attractive it’s a different weight, a different style. It doesn’t seem to be so much a challenge. There isn’t usually the same level of direct aggression, and the man need not push anger behind the stare, unless the woman stares back and makes it into a challenge. Up to that point, it’s just objectification. Which though distressing is -not- to the one doing the objectification, aggressive. Why be aggressive to an object?

The stare is usually quite similar to one might give a pretty object, a piece of art, a flower, or the like. Something visually appealing that one finds attractive. It likely isn’t intended as aggressive, or even distressing, it simply isn’t taking the possibility into account.

Children stare at people all the time. Boys and girls alike. Eventually most grow out of it, as they are informed that it’s rude. Boys stop staring particularly at other boys because they learn the challenge aspect of it. Usually by getting into fights. They often -will- stare at smaller, weaker, or less socially powerful(in some cases) boys. Because they can get away with it. And some will still stare at girls, if they can get away with it, or don’t learn better. And at that age, some girls will do the same.

Throughout our lives, we are subjected to constant imagery of the female form presented as an object of beauty. Something to look at. Something to stare at. Billboards, posters, ads, tv, movies…everywhere. The male gaze.

When puberty hits, boys have a new reason to look at, to stare at, women’s bodies. Sexual interest. Sexuality attraction will draw the eye, if one does not decide to stop it. I know many women who surreptitiously check out guys. The key here is that it’s subtle, instead of overt.

Men will stare at women because there’s no reason -not- too. It’s often encouraged by other young men. The woman has little recourse to do anything about it. There’s no aggression, no challenge, simply a complete disregard for the woman’s feelings.

A final complication arises in that, in some ways, in some circumstances, a lustful look -can- be flattering. A young woman who is a late bloomer might feel pleased for a time that she’s getting sexual attention. An older woman, numbed to the insult of it, might feel pleased that she’s ‘still got it’. A flirtatious woman who thrives on her use of the one power of her sexuality, the one power classic patriarchy affords her, might encourage it. And modern women’s fashion seems to be designed to be eye-catching and sexualizing.

Add to this the jealousy that I think many, possibly most, men harbor of that sexual attention women get. Not knowing the discomfort and distress, embarrassment and shame it leads to, and without firsthand experience of the limitations it sets on women, or the other handicaps women have, men are jealous. I think it starts as children, when little girls are told they’re pretty and little boys aren’t. This is just a theory though.

These, and other things, muddy the waters. It leads the unreflective man to think that his stare -should- be flattering, or at least not distressing. If it is, obviously either there is something wrong with him, or there is something the matter with her. After all, he’s just looking, like you would at any -thing- beautiful, and being called beautiful is a compliment, right?

I am not in any fashion in any of this attempting to excuse the action. Nor is this the case in all stares. But I do think it bears some resemblance to what is going on.

Seriously. Men understand very, very well that staring at *men* is a hostile act; aggressive men respond to being stared at as if it were a challenge or threat. So how exactly could they fail to get that women interpret male stares as hostile?

Well, way oversimplified: because a sexist notion of hostility involves a definition of threat and insult that covers men but not women. Men possess personal space and a level of personal dignity; women don’t, so much. Men can feel that their personal space has been invaded; women cannot. Men can see staring as an unacceptable lead-in to more unacceptable behavior; women cannot. So of course you’re not threatening anybody, you’re just trying to pay a pretty girl a nice compliment. What’s your problem, bitch?

And we are encouraged to see a disjunct, when we’re told that sexual assault is wrong but staring at a woman’s tits when she’s clearly frightened–or yelling at her when she objects–is perfectly normal.

I don’t think this double standard is less common than staring: look at the additional level of racist scrutiny and denigration that is but cannot be reason to fear racist violence. We’re encouraged to see no connection whatsoever between profiling and, say, racist verdicts.

But I kind of feel like it’ll get intolerable eventually; we’ve only even known each other a few months (he asked me out like 1 week after we met! Gah!) and I’m just wondering how long I can hold off on ruining our friendly-acquaintance-ship… ’cause I really do think telling him off would do that. He’s one of those guys who has to be coddled just to function in society, I swear: “No, you did fine in that talk!” “Don’t worry, you don’t sound awkward at all!” “Of course women (who aren’t me) want to date you!”

When it comes down to it, I don’t think it’s something he can change. It’s just something I *hate* about him. So I don’t know if telling him he’s being creepy would be productive at all… And I’m fine with going full-bitch at a dude but I usually prefer to not kick a guy while he’s (permanently) down.

/whining :p

Indeed my husband has them too. A while ago a guy stared at us in the park, and he said quietly, “That guy is about to try and mug us.” This was news to me, but I trust him as more streetwise than me. Literally seconds later the guy proved him right. It wasn’t scary because I was too busy being impressed at my husband’s perception. My husband squared up to him and stared him down. No words, just staring. The mugger went off and started trying to mug a guy who was running solo down a little path nearby. My husband loitered threateningly and stared (he is a huge guy, why on earth anyone would try and mug him baffles me), and the mugger went away empty-handed. The runner said thank you and went on his way.

Men know when other men are doing it and they know when they are doing it. Part of the reason we go quiet is because we don’t want to provoke or flatter them with a response while we’re busy gauging the best way out of the situation. Also it’s the reason my husband did it, because he was too busy staring back.