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15 Responses

  1. DAS
    DAS February 17, 2010 at 4:57 pm |

    Actually mikvot are not only for women: some Orthodox men have the practice of immersion before Shabbos and many Jewish men have adopted the practice of pre-wedding mikvahs as well (I myself did). And both men and women must immerse upon conversion to Judaism.

    At any given time, the mikvah is for either men or women and women are the primary users of mikvahs, so usually it’s “women’s hours” at any given mikvah.

    What is odd is the list of requirements for a mikvah. When my wife went to the mikvah before she married, the “mikvah lady” gave her all sorts of requirements to make sure she was “ready” for the mikvah. When I went, the male attendent just made sure I showered first so I didn’t get the mikvah itself dirty and gave me a brief instruction about what I was supposed to do. I don’t know why the difference, it could be just a matter of which attendent you get, but I suspect they are simply stricter when it comes to women for whatever reason.

    Interestingly, conversions are somewhat of a different matter because the Rabbi directs it. Even if the Rabbi is a male Rabbi directing a female’s conversion (and hence is in another room for some of the steps), the final say is not the attendent but the Rabbi so if the Rabbi says whatever was done is ok, it’s ok.

  2. Simcha
    Simcha February 17, 2010 at 5:58 pm |

    As for LGBT-friendly or progressive mikva’ot, they’re about as common as unicorns. I live in the third-largest Jewish population in the world. Yeah, no liberal mikvah open to the public here. I don’t know of one at all on this side of the Rockies. In Israel there might be more because there is more connection, even among secular Jews, to Judaism (a self-described “secular” Jew in Israel may keep kosher, go to the mikvah, and avoid doing work on Shabbat). But I understand why she wouldn’t write about something so fantastically uncommon.

    Laws of taharat hamishpacha (“family purity”) are intense: no touching, ever, of the opposite sex, until you’re married, at which point you can touch only your spouse.

    As an Orthodox feminist (who, for the record, loves her religion), let me tell you: if you aren’t, as a liberal feminist, utterly horrified by the sexism, racism, homophobia, and oppression that goes on in Orthodox Judaism, you just don’t know the whole story.

  3. Brown Shoes
    Brown Shoes February 17, 2010 at 7:12 pm |

    The mikveh is definitely also for men, as in some communities it’s a place with a bad reputation for child abuse. I’ve been hearing about it more and more.

  4. Ruchama
    Ruchama February 18, 2010 at 5:23 pm |

    I live in the third-largest Jewish population in the world. Yeah, no liberal mikvah open to the public here. I don’t know of one at all on this side of the Rockies.

    Do you mean Los Angeles? I don’t really know any details, but I’ve heard that the one at American Jewish University is supposed to be fairly progressive.

  5. Kristen from MA
    Kristen from MA February 18, 2010 at 5:25 pm |

    in which women are banned from studying sacred texts and must present underwear stains to rabbis for inspection

    WTF?!!!

  6. Ruchama
    Ruchama February 18, 2010 at 6:03 pm |

    Women are supposed to go to the mikveh no sooner than 7 days after the last day of their periods. What counts as the last day of the period is the last day that there’s a red or brown stain. If a day or two after bleeding stops, the woman gets some spotting where she’s not quite sure whether to count it as brown, which means it counts as a period day, or yellow, which means it doesn’t, she’s supposed to show it to a rabbi and get his opinion. I have no idea how often people actually do this.

  7. Brown Shoes
    Brown Shoes February 18, 2010 at 6:43 pm |

    Ruchama, I do think it depends on the community or the rabbi – I do imagine it probably happens more the more fundamentalist you get, but my old Conservative rabbi said it was kind of like abortion in that you may have been technically supposed to talk to your rabbi but most communities he was familiar with didn’t actually do that and it was a private matter.

    And I have to agree with Simcha: the more I’ve learned about what goes on in many Orthodox communities the more I have been horrified, and it’s not getting any better.

  8. Shoshie
    Shoshie February 18, 2010 at 8:34 pm |

    I’m a fairly observant Conservative Jew in Seattle. I immerse 7 days after menstruation at the mikvah in an Orthodox Lubavitch synagogue. They’re pretty nice there. I’ve shown up in pants before and wasn’t hassled about it. My female rabbi goes there, wearing her kippah, and isn’t harassed. But I know that there are problems in other mikvahs in our city.

    As far as liberal mikvahs, here’s a good list: http://community.livejournal.com/mikveh/2685.html?thread=25981

  9. Brown Shoes
    Brown Shoes February 19, 2010 at 11:47 am |

    Actually, despite being easily the most socially conservative city in Canada, Calgary’s Orthodox synagogue is open to all Jews using the mikvah – I know for a fact our Reform temple uses it in conversions all the time without a fuss, which is not the case in Edmonton.

  10. Nancy Green
    Nancy Green February 19, 2010 at 5:01 pm |

    When I was a teenager I went to a Pentecostal footwashing ceremony. I was very moved by the act of giving and receiving care. It opened my mind to how the spiritual and the physical are braided together. There’s a book called, ‘Nurses Work–The Sacred and the Profane’. That pretty much says it.
    Now as a Unitarian Pagan Witch I am a believer in ritual, and the power of acting out your beliefs and intentions.

  11. L
    L February 19, 2010 at 8:22 pm |

    I’m wondering why the response to the period-checking is automatically “WTF” and “horrified.” Given, I find the idea pretty gross. But that’s a gut reaction to the idea that menstruation is dirty – “ew period blood.”

    I can definitely see how the practice could be implemented in a sexist, patriarchal way. But I don’t think I get to assume that someone necessarily experiences their religion as intrusive and patriarchal.

    Naomi Ragen writes fiction that is often set in Orthodox Jewish communities (both in the US and Israel) that incorporate a lot of these questions. I have not lived in these communities, but the impression I take away from her fiction and other writings is that Orthodox Judaism can be used as a tool of oppression and patriarchy – but that it does not need to be this way, and those communities that do so are abusing the word of G-d to justify their pride/greed/desire for power/etc. She’s explicitly said that she does not think that this should mean that she must leave her religion – they should be the ones to go.

  12. piny
    piny February 19, 2010 at 10:05 pm |

    I’m wondering why the response to the period-checking is automatically “WTF” and “horrified.” Given, I find the idea pretty gross. But that’s a gut reaction to the idea that menstruation is dirty – “ew period blood.”

    I don’t consider my menses dirty, but I wouldn’t want to produce them to anyone.

    I think many women consider menstruation to be extremely private. It’s associated with sexuality and reproduction. Those ideas seem valid in this context as well. And so this directive to show them to a male authority figure sounds like a pretty deep invasion of privacy.

    I understand that it is not for an outsider to determine another woman’s boundaries, or to tell her what religious observance should mean to her. And I agree that menstruation is no big deal. I don’t know if it makes sense to read this interaction that way, though, or to assume that commenters here are bothered by menstruation rather than a reading of it.

  13. Marilyn Johnson
    Marilyn Johnson February 20, 2010 at 11:19 am |

    My very limited understanding of showing a rabbi your bloodstained underwear (I Googled it, I know, hardly accurate) is that the time that a woman is menstruating she is “impure” and is kept apart from her husband (I think.) The rabbi checks her underwear to make sure she is indeed done menstruating. And to make sure she’s ready to use the ritual bath.

    Menstruation isn’t impure. It’s a bodily function like any other, it just happens to be unique to women. If I needed to whip out some blood-stained underwear, or a used pad, and take it to a doctor, that definitely wouldn’t be my funnest day, but I would do it because…hey, it’s a doctor, if they need it, they need it. But to have a rabbi inspect my underwear because, essentially, they don’t trust my word that I am done menstruating? Again, I’m making these judgments as a non-Jewish (and non-religious) woman, but I don’t understand how that can be anything but oppressive, humiliating and patriarchal.

  14. UnFit
    UnFit February 20, 2010 at 8:00 pm |

    I thought the whole point of having to wait 7 days, not being allowed to touch anyone while you’re menstruating – let alone have sex – and having to immerse in order to purify yourself again was that menstruation is viewed as dirty and icky and something that has to be purged.

  15. Ruchama
    Ruchama February 22, 2010 at 7:11 pm |

    There are different interpretations for why a woman is supposed to go to the mikveh after her period ends and before she can have sex with her husband. It certainly can be read as “menstruation is dirty,” and there are definitely people who interpret it that way, but there are other possible interpretations, too. One I’ve seen pretty often is that menstruation represents, in a way, the “death” of a potential life, which is ritually impure. (“Ritually impure” is not the same thing as just “impure.”) The mikveh marks the separation between the ritually impure state and the ritually pure state, so that the act of sex, a holy act, won’t be tainted by the impurity of death.

    The mikveh itself is not meant as a physical bath — you’re supposed to get totally clean before going in the mikveh, so that the water only touches the person and isn’t blocked by any dirt.

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