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Jill has been blogging for Feministe since 2005.
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36 Responses

  1. herong
    herong February 23, 2010 at 9:55 am |

    Omfg.

  2. Leo
    Leo February 23, 2010 at 10:18 am |

    Wow. “Long-term monogamy is the right thing to do” or else, you’ll end up with HIV and die miserable.
    So, I’ll got get a husband and have babies right away because so far, I’ve only been a shameless marriage-breaking whore.

  3. Marle
    Marle February 23, 2010 at 10:22 am |

    This is posted on a site called *momlogic* (not sounding like a base of men rights activists) by a woman with a PhD?

    “How can we blame our husbands for getting wet on their way home from work when IT’S RAINING WHORES?” – Where do I begin with that? Where’s the logic in having sympathy for someone who breaks their vows by blaming people who did not make said vows?

    WTF. BTW, Dr Walsh, the reason Tiger Woods “did the right thing” by going to a press conference and saying he’s sorry and the men in your life haven’t, it’s because I assume the men in your life are not famous and don’t need to do that to keep their careers. Also, the men in your life probably don’t have the money to pay people to write a beautiful, sappy speech for you? Let’s not judge a relationship by what’s said at a *press conference*.

  4. Icewyche
    Icewyche February 23, 2010 at 10:30 am |

    How can we blame our husbands for getting wet on their way home from work when IT’S RAINING WHORES?

    Right. Because there are no such things as UMBRELLAS.

    The shameless Tiger mistresses who have sought their fifteen minutes by kissing and telling on national television need a serious reality check. Or they need to become mothers so they can sympathize with Elin.

    WTF IS THIS I DON’T EVEN

    News flash, Dr. Smug: Becoming a mommy doesn’t make you a better person. It doesn’t make you a saint, and as a childfree woman I am so very sick of women like this thinking mommyhood makes them Sooper Speshul and Exalted and Better Than You, You Unwomanly Whore.

    I want to punch this sanctimonious twit SO BAD.

  5. melancholia
    melancholia February 23, 2010 at 10:33 am |

    One aspect of this story that hasn’t gotten enough play is that his wife very likely violently assaulted him on Thanksgiving day when she discovered his affairs. Yet nobody seems to want to discuss that. Of course Tiger claimed at his press conference that there is no domestic violence in their relationship, but his bruises and eyewitnesses tell a different story. Their whole relationship seems pretty toxic.

  6. samanthab
    samanthab February 23, 2010 at 10:46 am |

    Melancholia, did you yourself see Woods’ bruises and interrogate eyewitnesses? Because otherwise, you made multiple speculative leaps here. And you’re oh so surprised that others don’t want to take those leaps with you?

  7. William
    William February 23, 2010 at 10:57 am |

    Melancholia, did you yourself see Woods’ bruises and interrogate eyewitnesses? Because otherwise, you made multiple speculative leaps here. And you’re oh so surprised that others don’t want to take those leaps with you?

    At a minimum she used a golf club to bash in the rear window of a vehicle he was driving, likely causing an accident. Reverse the roles and I doubt many people would have trouble calling Tiger domestically violent. Does that excuse his cheating ass? No, obviously not. But lets on strain credulity here. Not every scenario has to have a good guy and a bad guy.

  8. PrettyAmiable
    PrettyAmiable February 23, 2010 at 11:10 am |

    haha, my favorite part is that he’s hosting a press conference that his wife didn’t even attend. What part of that apology was for her? That was to AT&T kids, not to Elin.

    “Thanks for that 20-second TV hug, mom! Maybe I can win back some endorsements before I go back to golf this fall.”
    “I know, son… I know.”

  9. samanthab
    samanthab February 23, 2010 at 11:15 am |

    William, if she was never charged, how can you comfortably assert this? You know, my gut feeling is that the rumors probably are accurate, but it’s just plain intellectually dishonest to base conclusions on rumors and gut feelings.

  10. Ruthie G
    Ruthie G February 23, 2010 at 11:20 am |

    Apparently because my parents have split up I am going to “end up on the public coffers or spreading HIV”.

    a)the phrase “credit crunch” doesn’t seem to be registering
    b)thank you for the stereotyping of HIV positive as being completely irresponsible.

    Wait, she says she’s a single mother? I really hope her kids don’t ever find this…

  11. norbizness
    norbizness February 23, 2010 at 11:25 am |

    I still can’t believe Disney created an animatronic Tiger for use in that press conference.

  12. William
    William February 23, 2010 at 11:43 am |

    William, if she was never charged, how can you comfortably assert this? You know, my gut feeling is that the rumors probably are accurate, but it’s just plain intellectually dishonest to base conclusions on rumors and gut feelings.

    Most domestic abusers are never charged. Why aren’t most abusers charged? Much of the time it is because the police don’t take domestic violence seriously, because the victims don’t press charges due to feeling they deserved it or trying to protect their abusers, or because of the ridiculous shame our society heaps on people for being victims.

    I’m not in any way trying to defend Tiger here, but this is the kind of horseshit that maintains the myths we have about domestic violence. By questioning what is pretty clearly a case of domestic violence because we don’t like the victim, because charges haven’t been brought, because we aren’t 100% sure we are contributing to the culture which allows domestic violence to be as prevalent as it is. In this case the victim is a complete schmuck, but seeing how even the suggestion of violence was silenced is going to have an effect on other victims.

  13. William
    William February 23, 2010 at 11:45 am |

    Also, its not “intellectually dishonest.” Intellectually dishonest implies that there is intentional deceit or malice. Perhaps you meant to say my assertion was logically unsound or unprovable, but I think it would be pretty tough to argue that I was lying.

  14. samanthab
    samanthab February 23, 2010 at 11:51 am |

    William, you’ve made so many assumptions about what *I* believe that you’ve gone a long way towards proving yourself, at least to me, as someone that can perhaps get carried away on the basis of presumption. I never said you were lying, furthermore. I said that any such discussion would be intellectually dishonest because it would be based on a foundation of sand. Or, in this case, TMZ reports.

    Also, as a former victim of domestic violence: thanks for the mansplaining.

  15. sophiefair
    sophiefair February 23, 2010 at 11:51 am |

    i actually felt really sad and sorry for this author. no man has used words like “poise” and “grace” to describe her. the men who have wronged her have not apologised for their behaviour… seeing a man say he was sorry was such a strange thing for her that she was actually reduced to tears. none of what tiger said should be that shocking or unusual (leaving aside, for the moment, issues of sincerity). the men in this woman’s life must truly be atrocious human beings, that she would be so moved and impressed by the crumbs offered at tiger’s press conference.

  16. CBrachyrhynchos
    CBrachyrhynchos February 23, 2010 at 12:06 pm |

    Um, can someone tell me why Tiger Woods is apologizing to the public, when his private relationships are none of their fucking business?

  17. Alara Rogers
    Alara Rogers February 23, 2010 at 12:15 pm |

    Also, as a former victim of domestic violence: thanks for the mansplaining.

    You know, it’s not mansplaining when you *ask* a man “Why do you believe that? I’m not sure that’s true” and he says “I believe that because a, b and c.” It’s mansplaining when they come in apropos of nothing to explain the world to you, but if you and another person are having a civil debate and the other person explains their position, the fact that the other person is male and (probably) does not have lived experience that you do (but have not yet shared in the converstion) does not automatically make it mansplaining.

    It’s a great word and I love it, but let’s not consider it synonymous with “every time a man opens his mouth on a feminist board.” When you *ask* a guy why he thinks something, he’s got the right to tell you. And you can’t very well say “My lived experience makes me an expert on this subject that you are discussing, therefore you are condescending to me by using that subject in explaining your position” when you hadn’t previously raised the issue of your lived experience.

    I’m not following the case closely but I thought it was pretty well established that Elin did attack the car with a golf club and that this is what caused Tiger to have an accident. That’s an act of violence, and it is reasonable for any person to fear that an enraged person with a golf club in their hands might cause them harm, even if the enraged person is physically smaller and weaker. Does this mean there was some sort of long-term pattern of violence? No, there’s no evidence of that whatsoever; if there was violence against Tiger himself it may have been a “crime of passion”, a single incident caused by overwhelming anger, and even if the violence was all against the car that may have been all it was. But the spectrum of “domestic violence” includes the incidents where an enraged spouse beats, kills or deliberately destroys the property of a spouse found cheating, even if there had not previously been violence.

    Some say Elin’s reaction was understandable. I say there is no reason, ever, to attack either a person or a car a person is driving with a nine iron. Maybe if the person just did serious physical harm to you or someone you love, but not if all they did was betray you emotionally. She took a hurt that was in the realm of the mind and emotions and she made it into physical damage, and in my mind that is never excusable no matter what the provocation. I have sympathy for people who discover their spouses were cheating on them, but that sympathy flees the moment they use that hurt as an excuse for physical violence, whether against people or property (since violence against property is well understood to be a proxy for people.) And if people speculate that Elin physically attacked Tiger… well, she wouldn’t be earning such speculation if she hadn’t physically attacked his car. If she did attack him, of course he would not press charges and of course he would do his best to conceal that the attack occurred, because that’s what most people would do if attacked by a spouse in a rage after it was discovered that they were cheating, so the fact that he hasn’t pressed charges and has stated that she has never harmed him is no evidence of anything. But the fact that she admits to attacking his car *is* evidence that she’s willing to get violent over this issue. So I don’t see it as particularly unlikely that she attacked him, no. And since this is a web site on the Internet, not a jury, I don’t see the harm in speculating or even assuming; if she hadn’t wanted people to assume that maybe she beat her husband up for cheating on her, maybe she shouldn’t have smashed up his car while he was driving it.

  18. Icewyche
    Icewyche February 23, 2010 at 1:34 pm |

    @ Norbizness: Actually, it was CGI. Animatronics are SO 20th-century.

  19. Niki
    Niki February 23, 2010 at 2:24 pm |

    Near the beginning, she actually compared women who have been cheated on by their husbands to women who have suffered from domestic violence, saying that all these women (lumped into one big umbrella group of “women who have been deeply injured by some man’s selfishness”) just need a big ol’ thank you.

    Annnnnnnnnnd that’s when I stopped reading the article. The pain caused by marital infidelity is, I’m sure, heartbreaking, but you don’t do that pain any justice by committing gross hyperbole and suggesting it is on par with the pain and fear experience by victims of spousal abuse.

  20. Hugo
    Hugo February 23, 2010 at 2:48 pm |

    That’s awful. I wrote about Tiger’s speech today, and I honor his first step — but we don’t become role models by taking a first step.

    The “raining whores” stuff is so ugly that it ought to result in a report to whatever state licensing board gave this doc the all-clear to practice psychotherapy. The myth of male weakness and internalized misogyny are common enough, but coming from a doctor who presumably treats couples and individuals it is foul beyond words.

  21. sophiefair
    sophiefair February 23, 2010 at 2:54 pm |

    alara — tiger didn’t use condoms at least some of the time, so i would argue that he did put his wife at physical risk, perhaps actual physical harm. it is highly likely that she has since had to undergo extensive std testing, which is no small inconvenience. not to mention the extreme stress of worrying if any of those tests (especially the big ones) are going to come back positive.

    this still does not excuse domestic violence, if that is what occured. but it’s too easy to dismiss cheating as not physically harmful. in cases where protection is not used, that is simply inaccurate.

  22. Kat
    Kat February 23, 2010 at 3:34 pm |

    Did anyone read any of Dr Wendy’s other posts? I got halfway through “Would you hire a hot nanny” and had to stop when she likened putting a “Swedish nanny in her pajamas” at the breakfast table with her husband to putting her purse in front of poor kids — they are just too vulnerable to resist the temptation.

    What the heck??

  23. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub February 23, 2010 at 3:48 pm |

    I have no time or respect for women who blame the other woman in infidelity–FFS, your husband knew he was married. He walked down the damn aisle and said his “I do’s.” He’s a grown adult, he can and should take responsibility for his actions.

  24. CBrachyrhynchos
    CBrachyrhynchos February 23, 2010 at 3:50 pm |

    That’s awful. I wrote about Tiger’s speech today, and I honor his first step — but we don’t become role models by taking a first step.

    Perhaps a step sideways because the people to whom Woods should be accountable were apparently conspicuously absent from that meeting.

    As it is, the tabloid culture that demands public apologies and amends while putting private concerns under the microscope acts as another roadblock for the Woods family.

  25. CBrachyrhynchos
    CBrachyrhynchos February 23, 2010 at 4:05 pm |

    repost for closing tag fail:

    Perhaps a step sideways because the people to whom Woods should be accountable were apparently conspicuously absent from that meeting.

    As it is, the tabloid culture that demands public apologies and amends while putting private concerns under the microscope acts as another roadblock for the Woods family.

    Sheelzebub: I have no time or respect for women who blame the other woman in infidelity–FFS, your husband knew he was married. He walked down the damn aisle and said his “I do’s.” He’s a grown adult, he can and should take responsibility for his actions.

    Responsibility to whom? Here is the way I see it. ESPN spent the last few months exploiting the hell out of the problems within the Woods family. Then, they smugly congratulate Tiger Woods for apologizing to the people who directly benefitted by turning his family’s personal and private conflicts into prime-time ratings.

    There is an obvious and unequivocally abusive partner in this tragedy: sports media.

  26. kaninchenzero
    kaninchenzero February 23, 2010 at 4:53 pm |

    Dr. Walsh gives monumentally bad advice. It’s like all the worst parts of the kyriarchy served up as Just What Women Need. Did you know, ladies [sic], that if you’re not comfortable with something sexual your husband [sic] wants to do, you need therapy so you can get past that and learn to say yes?

  27. anonymous for this one
    anonymous for this one February 23, 2010 at 5:07 pm |

    Well yeah Sheezelbub, absolutely he needs to take responsibility and wives need to realize that he made the choice and could’ve walked away if he so chose. But at the same time, it takes two to have an affair and either party could have stopped the behavior. When I found out about my husband’s infidelity, I blamed them both because he is obviously a grown adult and she knew he was married and pursued him anyway. They both make me sick. I’m more angry at him because he was the one who made vows to me and she never did, but she still knew she was doing something that could hurt his wife and kids and decided she just didn’t fucking care. In addition to the infection I inherited from her via him, which I am pretty pissed at both of them about. Neither one of them took the time to consider what I was getting exposed to without my consent.

  28. james
    james February 23, 2010 at 5:24 pm |

    “The pain caused by marital infidelity is, I’m sure, heartbreaking, but you don’t do that pain any justice by committing gross hyperbole and suggesting it is on par with the pain and fear experience by victims of spousal abuse.”

    I don’t know, spousal abuse is a big category. The stuff that gets on the news is murder and beating, but it also covers lots of other harms too: like theft and threats and control. Being cheated on obviously isn’t as bad as being murdered or beaten, but these women are systematically decieved and their health and finances can suffer as a result. That’s not just some trivial emotional thing people should just have to stuck up, and I’m not sure it shouldn’t be considered abusive.

  29. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub February 23, 2010 at 5:36 pm |

    @CBrachyrhynchos: I don’t give two shits about Tiger Wood’s apology. I was writing regarding the momlogic epic fail blaming the other women for the actions of straying douchebags. You know who’se to blame for the actions of straying douchebags? The straying douchebags.

    @anonymous: It takes two to have an affair, but as far as I’m concerned, there would be only ONE person I’d have a huge beef with–and that would be my cheating SO. Because again–the cheating SO made a choice–the a choice to expose their partner to STD’s, to betray trust, to act like an entitled shitbag.

    I’d rather hold my SO accountable for his actions because there are people in the world–and stressing out over everyone else in the world is not helpful. Expecting your partner to show you the respect you deserve by being faithful is perfectly reasonable.

    And you know, when I’ve been in committed relationships, I had the opportunity to stray. I was SORELY tempted. Guess what? I didn’t do it. And I’m willing to bet that if I did, my partner wouldn’t go on about those slag-ass men I had sex with–nope, I’d be held fully accountable.

    And not for nothing–but married men have made passes at me and single friends of mine. No, none of us went for it, but I doubt these guys stopped with the first or twentieth woman who said no. I have one friend who didn’t know her boyfriend was married until far into the relationship–does that make her a whore? I’m curious.

    At some point, a husband who fucks around has got to own the fact that he’s acting like a creeping slagtastic asshole; he doesn’t have to make the pass. I’m willing to bet that these guys would insist the women they did screw around with threw themselves at them when they’re caught creeping. It’s pretty fucking galling to have some dipshit go on about how it’s “raining whores” when HELLO–the men who fucked around on her CHOSE to do so. You can’t tell rain not to make you wet. You can tell someone that you’re married or in a committed relationship and walk away.

    If that makes me a bad person, so be it. But I stand by what I said: the common denominator in someone who fucks around on their spouse is, well, the philandering spouse. Posting crap like “it’s raining whores” is misogynist and it’s utter bullshit, and I have zero respect for people who think that the answer to their problems is to blame the women when it was the husband who was out creeping.

  30. anonymous for this one
    anonymous for this one February 23, 2010 at 10:04 pm |

    I never said it was okay to call the other woman a whore. Pissed though I may be at both of them, I’m certainly not calling her names. Hell, I didn’t even call my husband names. I’m saying that in this particular case, the woman my husband had an affair with knew he was married because she had met me and the two of them complained to each other about their spouses. And her husband? Was the one who told me what was going on, threatened to kill my husband and most definitely held him accountable more than her. I know this because he told me in great detail what a horrible person I was married to and how it was his fault, etc…I agree with you that the person I hold most responsible for my husband’s fucking around is him. Absolutely. But he didn’t fuck around by himself and I don’t think it makes me a bad person to hold her accountable too. Not more accountable, no. The person I hold most accountable is him. But she knew… they waited until I was out of town so she could come to our house, she “surprised” him at work by picking him up early and driving him someplace so they could have sex. I’m supposed to think that’s ok? Why is it ok for me to be disgusted by his behavior but not hers? I’m not talking about affair partners (be it men or women) who didn’t know their SO was married. That’s horrible for them as well as the spouse and I can’t imagine how horrible that is for everyone involved. I would never have been upset with her if he had lied to her and she didn’t know he was married. But like you said- I’ve had married men make passes at me, I walked away. If I hadn’t? I’d damn well expect that spouse to be pretty pissed at me.

  31. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub February 24, 2010 at 8:41 am |

    No, anony, you’re not “supposed to think it’s OK.” But it would be really nice if you’d read my original comment in the context in which it was posted–in response to the epic fail at Mom Logic, where the blogger was calling women whores. As in “it’s raining whores” and how can we expect the poor widdle menz to treat their wives and partners respectfully when there are all of these dirty wimminfolk around? Because heaven forbid the blogger ever hold a man accountable for acting like a douche.

  32. Sarah
    Sarah February 24, 2010 at 8:49 am |

    On morality (not that I’m much good at morality) it seems pretty clear that husbands shouldn’t cheat and women shouldn’t mess around with married men. Everybody’s an adult and everybody’s responsible for whom they choose to have sex with.

    God, this reminds me of The Women, by Clare Booth Luce. It’s this idea — which I want to believe is outdated, but maybe isn’t — that straying husbands are a fact of life, given that women grow old and ugly, and that female life is a desperate (but impossible) struggle to keep one’s man around, and then to bear it gracefully when he does stray. It’s so damn depressing.

  33. William
    William February 24, 2010 at 10:20 am |

    Also, as a former victim of domestic violence: thanks for the mansplaining.

    Yeah, because men are never victims of domestic violence. God knows I haven’t, I’m just reaching into my manbag for some mansplaining. There certainly isn’t any reason for me to be getting defensive here, right? God knows theres no way seeing someone’s likely victimization silenced, denied, and questioned because they’re a man could be triggering, right? Because theres no way that I could be triggered. Because only women have experienced domestic violence.

    Speaking of assumptions…

  34. anonymous for this one
    anonymous for this one February 24, 2010 at 8:16 pm |

    I know what it was intended as. But everyone throws shit at women whose husbands have had affairs- the right will tell you that it’s your fault for not being attentive enough and feminine enough, your friends think you’re stupid if you stay married, but society is ready to jump on you if you leave because “what about the kids” and now I get to read about how someone doesn’t respect me if I’m pissed at the woman who knowingly had an affair with my husband, and then had the nerve to tell me that it was my fault because I was such a bad wife. But you know, you read a lot of stuff into my comment that I never said either so maybe we could lay off the sarcasm? I am aware that your comment was probably aimed more at women who call the affair partners names, but as a woman who has been there and gone through it, it bothered me to read it and I wanted to point it out to you. I had a friend tell me that one of the things she liked best about my handling of the affair was that I placed the blame on where it belonged- him, but we have a mutual friend who didn’t and it isn’t because she’s a horrible person or a woman who doesn’t deserve respect. It’s because she was devastated emotionally and hurt very badly and was trying to keep the hurt less than it would be, because admitting “he screwed up” is a lot harder to take than “she tricked him into it”. I know my husband wasn’t tricked… a relationship was offered and when he should have walked away he didn’t and that hurts like hell. He risked his job, our marriage and my health and for all of those things he is responsible, not her. It would be easier to sleep at night if I could lay it at her feet, but I can’t. I understand why someone might try to though and having had several friends go through it, I try not to judge either their reaction or their decision about their marriage.

  35. Amelia the Lurker
    Amelia the Lurker February 25, 2010 at 2:14 am |

    OH MY CHRIST.

    This reads like a parody, it really does. I mean everyone says that but seriously, it sounds like something out of ChristWire.

    “My own waterworks started with his tribute to his wife, Elin, using words like grace and poise to describe her.”
    Behold a person with no critical thinking faculties at all. Does she not know there exists such a thing as dissemblance? Does she get up in the middle of plays to stop the action or yell at the actors? Get this woman a salt shaker, she’s direly in need of some grains with which to take things.

    I like that she follows “Thanks to feminism, women own their own orgasm and a box of Trojans.” with the whole “families are falling apart spiel!” Way to blame women for “not providing sexual boundaries.” It’s normal for men to be sexual, but the burden of creating and upholding all sexual mores is on women. She’s missing the entire point of feminism.

    “Actually, two of his alleged mistresses DID have kids, and they still didn’t care!” That admission disproves her entire thesis (“Having kids makes you a paragon of awesome monogamous ladyhood!”) and she doesn’t even know it.

    P.S. Is it wrong that when I read “It’s raining whores,” the song “It’s Raining Men” started playing in my head? “It’s raining whores, hallelujah, it’s raining whores, amen!”

  36. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub February 25, 2010 at 9:46 am |

    ow I get to read about how someone doesn’t respect me if I’m pissed at the woman who knowingly had an affair with my husband, and then had the nerve to tell me that it was my fault because I was such a bad wife.

    I never said any such thing. I’m sorry your husband screwed around on you but you’re projecting your personal situation on my comments. Again, my original comment was in response to the blog posting of Mom Logic–you responded to my original comment and went off on a tear. Cut the shit and stop putting words into my mouth. You’re being disingenuous.

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