Author: Lauren has written 1251 posts for this blog.

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19 Responses

  1. 1
    Comrade Kevin 2.27.2010 at 9:53 pm |

    There are a few men who manage to convey their female characters with a sense of authenticity. This might be a bit off-topic, but the 80′s New Wave group “The Waitresses” (and I don’t mean the single they are best known for, “I Know What Boys Like”) was a collaboration between two close friends: Chris Butler, the songwriter, and Patty Donahue. Butler’s lyrics are seamless and yes, even Feminist, making the listener believe Donahue had written them herself.

    As for filmmakers, you’ve now got me thinking.

  2. 2
    Blue Jean 2.27.2010 at 11:16 pm |

    Oh, Perry is Sojourner Truth, Susan B. Anthony, and Lucretia Mott all rolled into one compared to the misogynistic pinheads behind the 2006 remake of The Wicker Man, another film that passes the Bechdel Test yet utterly flunks Feminism 101. We finally get a film where women make up half the cast, and it turns out they’re a pagan cult who likes to kidnap cops for human sacrifice, because hey, women in power are always evil, amiright? It features lots of bees, the dumbest cop in the world as played by Nick Cage, along with Cage disguising himself as a bear, stealing bikes, punching women in the face, etc. so there’s something for everyone. I look at Academy Award winner Ellen Burstyn who had to play the cult leader in this dreck just to keep working, and I weep for humanity.

    /rant

  3. 3
    Azalea 2.27.2010 at 11:29 pm |

    I think you missed several points that man people commonly miss when things like this occur:

    1) Sanaa’s character not only cheated on her husband- but she caused ANOTHER WOMAN immense pain becase her lover was someone else’s husband

    2) Her affair with the white married man was delsional- she thought he’d leave his wife for her when in reality that was never going to happen

    3) The affair resulted in a biracial child that she pretended was her husband’s when it wasn’t.

    She didn’t simply have an interracial experience- she cheated on her husband, duped him into false fatherhood, caused another woman a lot of pain and thought there was more to the relationship than sex. The white man in all of this is just as guilty of everything as she is except switch paternity fraud with he fathered a child he has no intention of ever claiming as his own.

    There are good movies on interracial dating but the movie where the two dating are married to other people and there is a serious power dynamic being ignored I have to say I pray that is NOT the standard interracial dating experience.

  4. 4
    roula 2.28.2010 at 12:09 am |

    Another one that was really frustrating, Bechdel-vs-feminism-wise: “The Women”. Oh my god. (I was on a REALLY long flight, okay?) Just, really bad stereotypes of, like, the four kinds of women that a good woman can be (why is it always four?) – and then the villainess. But they did pass the Bechdel test. To make matters worse, it actually had some worthwhile themes (growing up girl in the world of boys, etc) but didn’t run with them and allowed the inanity to dominate.

    Also, I was flying to Lebanon on Middle East Airlines and they did some REALLY awkward cutting in (a) a scene involving nipple-baring lingerie in a fitting room and (b) a conversation about sex and growing up between a young girl and an aunt-figure. Maybe there was other stuff that they took out entirely?

  5. 5
    Anonymous 2.28.2010 at 2:57 am |

    “I never considered that a movie might pass the Bechdel Test with flying colors yet still ooze stereotype”

    Seriously? I just watched Bring It On: All or Nothing (one reason why I’m anonymous). That passes the Bechdel Test twenties times over. And it would be hard to be much more stereotypical.

    And that’s just the first movie that came to mind, because I watched it last week. I can’t believe there aren’t a whole lot more.

  6. 6
    Sacha 2.28.2010 at 3:50 am |

    “I never considered that a movie might pass the Bechdel Test with flying colors yet still ooze stereotype”

    Or the entire series of Ghost In The Shell: Standalone Complex? It’s great that you have a strong women character, and she has some friends (and later, a female prime minister), but she’s still wearing practically nothing and has ironically been created a lesbian because you’re too homophobic to draw have naked men.

  7. 8
    kristen 2.28.2010 at 12:15 pm |

    I finally watched this movie a few weeks ago and my eyes began to bleed from the blatant PROFESSIONAL black woman hatred and disrespect that I saw in this movie. Here are some of the ideas that I found:
    1. A black woman w/ more education than her husband is an uppity bitch

    2. Black women who sleep with white men are just whores for white dick.

    3. [in the scene where cole hauser's wife confronts sanaa's character] a black woman is not good enough to be with a white man, we will never be accepted by the upper (read: white) class and, they only see us as sex objects (and the fact that he used a white woman to spew this hate about black women that is a common argument of black people [read: men] about black women who date white men pissed me off royally)

    4. black men are justified in hitting black women whenver that black woman pisses them off enough

    and 5. tyler perry ‘probably’ hates (professional) black women

    i know i am missing a few, but these were the ones that struck me the most.

    kristen

  8. 9
    UnFit 2.28.2010 at 12:23 pm |

    On the Bechdel test: after seeing Sex and the City (and now, out of curiosity and because I love Candice Bergen, The Women), I’m inclined to expand the Bechdel test. Not only do the women have to talk about something other than a man, but also about something other than fashion and beauty. Gag.

  9. 10
    Lizzie 2.28.2010 at 2:38 pm |

    Ugh yes this is a very good post.

    Indeed the other day I watched in disgust as Chris Rock was on TV waxing hilarious about the crap black people endure. He was really funny and apt. But eventually I realized, as he moved on to what he thinks of women, that he doesn’t mean black PEOPLE, he means black MEN. Because the funny wore out pretty damn quick when he started describing women, who in his brain, are not oppressed or disadvantaged at all. Indeed, in Rock’s skit, it’s not OK for a white person to call someone “nigger” but OK for Rock himself to call a woman a “bitch”. Women, he explains to us, are lazy sluts and leeches who just get men to do everything for them.

    It’s very depressing when you see someone who has been on the receiving end of people trying to keep them down out of blind prejudice, who then turns around and pushes the exact same bile on someone else. They know what it feels like!

    Lauren – as an aside, re “Something New” (I worked for one of the producers so I read that script way back), I agree it did a good job of handling these issues and also making Lathan’s character more than just a black woman, or a professional woman, she was an individual. Note that it has a female director, Sanaa Hamri, which I think is key.

  10. 11
    Tracey 2.28.2010 at 5:33 pm |

    @ Kristen
    “5. tyler perry ‘probably’ hates (professional) black women”

    Don’t think that is fair but it may be pretty close aside from the word hate, especially when it comes to his movies. Pretty much all Tyler Perry movies advocate a certain kind of family relationship, and by that, a certain kind of woman. He seems to use the professional woman as the anti-good woman. For his world view, a woman’s priority should be the traditional stay -at-home role and centered around the man and the Christian God. He often uses the professional type woman as an archetype for a woman who has forgotten her proper role in the household, and needs to be reminded of what her “real” duties are.
    In his movies, professional women can be good women, so long as they fit into the profile of :submissive to men, good chaste Christians, housewives first, soft-spoken mostly, maternal, etc.
    His movies are often criticized, and rightly so, for lacking balance in the characters, especially women and professionals. As a matter of fact, the professional man is also often a villain who is only after money, abuses his wife etc (which if the OP is accurate about the DV scene is highly problematic b/c it means that while treating DV violators of a high class badly in other films he makes DV justified by a blue-collar man). Also, women are often punished in his movies for being with rich men and chasing after wealth, and then find redemption at the hands of a good working-class Christian man.
    In the end, he uses badly constructed archetypes to advance his vision of what a good black family should be: middle class with a strong in control man at the helm, a submissive wife who may or may not work but knows her place, Christian, Christian, Christian. Anything else is pretty much demonized and belittled.
    I think he could make some good points with his emphasis on regarding family and community as high priorities were it not for his emphasis on Christian patriarchy as the only ways to accomplish these things. I like movies that stress strong relationships, and community togetherness and uplift, but seriously, is there no way to do so without emphasizing only one type of family model and Christian patriarchy? At least in Tyler Perry’s worldview there isn’t, which leads me to believe that while he may see the two as connected, he gives a higher priority to proselytizing than encouraging emphasis on family, and for a woman, there is only way to show commitment to family, and it doesn’t involve professionalism.
    For someone so quick to promote quality over money in his movies, TP sure doesn’t give up the chance to turn out cliche movies that have been done by him 100x over in order to make some money. At least he gives roles to Actors of color though, even if those roles are below the actors’ talent and doesn’t utilize them well.

  11. 12
    Emily 2.28.2010 at 11:03 pm |

    roula, “The Women” was based on a play by Clare Boothe Luce (which eventually spawned the movie that was remade into the movie you’re speaking of, who was kind of a self-hating A-hole when it came to women’s issues. She didn’t write a lot of plays, but instead went into conservative politics. There’s now a really scary conservative women’s organization called the Clare Boothe Luce Foundation.

  12. 13
    S.L 3.1.2010 at 2:09 am |

    While I agree with many of the points you all made, I don’t necessarily agree that he was saying this:

    2. Black women who sleep with white men are just whores for white dick.

    3. [in the scene where cole hauser's wife confronts sanaa's character] a black woman is not good enough to be with a white man, we will never be accepted by the upper (read: white) class and, they only see us as sex objects (and the fact that he used a white woman to spew this hate about black women that is a common argument of black people [read: men] about black women who date white men pissed me off royally)

    I think this would have more merit if the white man would not have been someone else’s husband. I mean, how would that have worked out nicely? They ride off into the sunset together to prove that interracial extra marital affairs work out nicely? Because it wasn’t really interracial dating, or even casual hook up. This was a full blown affair that resulted in a child he didn’t want and she tried to pass off as her husbands, In the movie, both Sanaa and the Hauser were greedy, selfish, and manipulative. It’s not like he winded up being the good guy and she the villiain. They both were pretty distasteful. I think the message is more like “you play with fire, you get burned” kind of thing.

  13. 14
    Raven 3.1.2010 at 5:23 am |

    I think the Bechdel test needs to add “About something besides a man or their own bodies.” (And usually the insecurities of.)

  14. 15
    Angelia Sparrow 3.1.2010 at 8:37 am |

    I have a disclaimer on my movie lists:

    Passing [the Bechedel Test] doesn’t make a good movie or a feminist one. Failing doesn’t mean a bad movie. I find this an interesting measure of roles for women.

    Resident Evil: Extinction passes. So do The Hills Have Eyes (where even the hero treats women as sex objects) and Grindhouse Presents: Planet Terror, which features a one-legged gogo dancer, a man trying to kill his wife for having an affair and Quinten Tarantino’s zombifying privates dropping off.

    Yet several good movies, including Gods and Monsters, do not pass because the female characters never talk to each other. There is never a reason for them to.

  15. 16
    MaryC 3.1.2010 at 10:04 am |

    I think what kills me about Tyler Perry is that he fills a certain void in mainstream cinema that a lot of other filmmakers simply don’t fill, and often don’t even acknowledge. But then he goes and fills the void in a way that’s imperfect at best and offensive at worst.

    For better or worse, a lot of Tyler Perry’s movies are about their female protagonists in ways that most mainstream movies, even ones that contain strong female characters, aren’t. I haven’t seen The Family That Preys, but part of what kept me watching Diary of a Mad Black Woman and Madea’s Family Reunion all the way through was that it was about a WOMAN’s psychological journey, not a man’s journey that was abetted by a female character. (For example, Avatar has strong female characters in Sigourney Weaver, Zoe Saldana and Michelle Rodriguez, but the movie is still basically ABOUT Jake… I’m sure you could find lots of movies that technically pass the Bechdel test but are still “about” a male character.) Even for all the problems I have with Perry philosophically, there is some emotional part of me that is so starved for stories about women that I find it refreshing to see his female characters front and center.

    I also appreciate, even if he does it in his typical hamhanded way, that Perry is willing to depict women who bear the lingering aftereffects of abuse, both physical and sexual. Again, this says less about Perry’s talent and more about the general landscape of movies, that I find myself going “Wow. He actually acknowledged that abuse can mess up a woman for a long time afterwards.” Far too frequently, when the assault or rape of female characters occurs in a movie, the focus shifts to how it affects her father/boyfriend/spouse/brother. I give Perry some credit for attempting to keep the primary focus on HER journey, even if the actual depiction of that journey is, well, problematic.

    Related to that, I was a little surprised to read about the domestic violence in The Family That Preys because Diary and Family Reunion also feature domestic abusers, but in the latter two films the men are unquestionably depicted as villains. I mean Blair Underwood is skirting Snidely Whiplash territory in Family Reunion. In fact, when his fiancee finally responds to a violent outburst by throwing a pot of boiling grits on him and smacking the shit out of him with a frying pan, the movie is pretty clearly on HER side. Taken in conjunction with the DV in The Family that Preys, it seems Perry isn’t so much anti-DV as he is a proponent of the sliding scale of physical abuse, where you’re a monster if you abuse “good” people but it’s okay to abuse “bad” people. Which… is truly creepy to think about.

    So like I said, there are all kinds of problems with Tyler Perry and I really hope this post doesn’t come across as an uncritical defense of his movies. I haven’t even gone near the class or education issues. But like I said, he kills me. I think it would be easier to write him off completely if there were NO redeeming value to his movies, but… I can’t deny there are things that draw me in to his movies.

  16. 17
    Nicole 3.1.2010 at 10:32 am |

    Just chiming in to agree that it’s absolutely possible for a movie that passes the Bechdel Test to be more anti-feminist than one that fails it.

    I think the Bechdel test needs to add “About something besides a man or their own bodies.” (And usually the insecurities of.)

    I don’t know, I can imagine a conversation between female characters about their body image could be realistic and enlightening in certain situations. Personally I don’t think the test needs to be *expanded* or clarified with any other rules, just understood that it serves a very specific purpose: illustrating whether women are visible/valued in this movie in the absence of men. Many movies I love fail, and it can be sobering to realize you didn’t even *notice* how driven they are by men. However, the presence of women in significant roles doesn’t mean they’ll be portrayed well. Just as the presence of a female writer or director doesn’t guarantee that either, even though more female writers and directors is something to strive for.

  17. 18
    Azalea 3.1.2010 at 1:29 pm |

    @ Kristen, did you completely miss Robin Given’s character? SHe was the epitome of classy and very refreshing. Ivy League educated, worked her way tot he top and wasn’t going to back down because some dude’s panties were all in a bunch about not getting her hard earned and well deserved position on the corporate ladder. Add to that she was extremely professional about all the unprofessionalism and bullshittery around her and what’s not to love?

    And seriously, this was not about love. Come on, that guy made Sanaa Lathan a sex partner that he paid a LOT of money for. He didn’t love her, he wasn’t going to leave his wife and her being black had little to do with it or did you really think a greedy cheating man with NO prenup would divorce his wife with whom he has a child for someone with far less money than he makes in a year? That was pure common sense to me, he and his wife eloped before he could even dare be talked into a pre-nup. He wasn’t planning on ever leaving her without a big knock down drag out fight.

    Also remember when Robin Given’s character came along, he was VERY willing to ditch SANAA NOT his wife for Robin Given’s character ASAP but she shot him down.

    I don’t think all the black women sleeping with white men are cheating on their husbands with married white men. THAT is offensive, highly. Interracial dating has and continues to exist in monogamous relationships and sometimes monogamous and HAPPY marriages. WHy would you want to see a movie where being the black “other woman” is glorified in the first place? Where a black woman is telling her husband he’s nothing and can’t do better than he’s doing yet complain that he isn’t helping out enough? I mean seriously her character BLAMED her own mother for her FATHER’S adultery and abandoning his family. She was not meant to be the poster child of black woman goodness. If anyone here thinks that, you’ve got some serious self- examination to do.

  18. 19
    kaninchenzero 3.1.2010 at 2:38 pm |

    I got nothing but contempt for Mr. Perry, and it’s nothin much to do with the material he produces. It’s his labor practices. He uses racial solidarity as a lever to get black writers actors techs to work his plays and movies below union scale and without benefits [source]. (I’d heard earlier than 2008 but my Google skills are not finding source for that.) After he became extremely wealthy. How exactly is that giving a hand up?

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