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  1. Danny
    Danny March 25, 2010 at 10:01 am |

    We weren’t shown Isabella saying that Richard must kill MIB and Hurley said, “OK got it” after she disappeared. That is not the Spanish he was using to talk to her before. I can’t help but think that Jacob asked Hurley to add that part.

  2. LC
    LC March 25, 2010 at 10:09 am |

    I loved earnest, Romance Novel Richard, too.

    I am thinking more and more that Jacob sinned in a big, big way. He did *something* that created the Man in Black/Smoke Monster. He’s responsible, and so he took on the role of guardian of the Island to atone. He’s protecting the world. He was evil, but he changed.

    The MIB doesn’t believe that. He thinks Jacob is just as evil as ever, and so is everyone else. Smokey thinks the choices Jacob and he made (and I think they were both in on it) were reasonable and then Jacob betrayed him and trapped him here. (And the Anubis/Smokey picture in the temple may just indicate that the evil was there and contained before MiB and Jacob showed up and disturbed the balance.)

    They’ve been having this discussion about people being redeemable ever since. So both were once men, and now are more, because of the island.

    I’m thinking the Hell metaphor is partially correct, and MiB touched the energy under the swan and became Smoke. Jacob convinced him to do it. Jacob “can be very persuasive.”

    I kind of want to see season 5 again, to see if Smokey ever lies about being the smoke monster/not Locke. Because I’ve noticed in Season 6 that he NEVER denies who he is.

  3. Ashley
    Ashley March 25, 2010 at 10:09 am |

    Ah I love this show. It confuses the hell out of me but I still love it.

  4. LC
    LC March 25, 2010 at 10:11 am |

    Danny: I thought the “got it” was in answer to Richard.

    Side note – Did Jacob only come up with the candidate idea once MiB tried to kill him?

  5. Danny
    Danny March 25, 2010 at 10:17 am |

    LC: I’ll have to go back and check but it looked like he was staring off into space like he does when he’s talking to a dead person. The fact that we weren’t shown Isabella saying it makes me very suspicious.

  6. Nymeria
    Nymeria March 25, 2010 at 10:44 am |

    Danny: I believe Hurley said “You got it.” because Richard thanked him for what he did. Then he added in the all going to hell part. Which, ahhh. I know I can’t say the entire show hasn’t been setting it up since episode one, but I really hope this isn’t as simple as “THE ULTIMATE GOOD VS THE PURE EVIL”

    Amazing episode, though.

  7. Astraea
    Astraea March 25, 2010 at 11:27 am |

    I was actually not that excited about this episode for a number of reasons. I was already in a pretty crappy mood, and another dead woman serving a man’s storyline didn’t do anything to help.

    TBH, I’m missing the days of crazy physicists, electromagnetism and other faux-science Sci Fi, and manipulative bastards I can enjoy. I’m having a hard time seeing Jacob as anything but a personification of traditional ideas of the christian god, but I don’t really see a mainstream show agreeing that that makes god a big douche so I’m getting nervous about how it’s going to play out.

    I really want all the Losties to destroy both Smokey and Jacob and sink the island at this point. With no more female casualties.

  8. Shakatany
    Shakatany March 25, 2010 at 11:40 am |

    Let me see if I have this right: Oceanic Flight 815 was flying over the Pacific Ocean heading to LA from Australia; Richard on the Black Rock was on his way from the Canary Islands to the Americas which means the Atlantic Ocean. Can The Island move across the world? OTH it makes a bit more sense to have it on the Atlantic and closer to where Egyptians might have come across it but all this oceanhopping confuzzles me.

  9. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub March 25, 2010 at 11:45 am |

    Didn’t Jacob order the gassing of Dharma and the killing of Danielle and her baby? He gave orders through Richard, his representative, yes? So, um. . .how is Jacob supposed to be “good”? And yes, I still think he’s a major, passive-aggressive douche, even though the MIB is also a manipulative, lying shitsack.

    IOW, I’m with Astraea.

  10. Aaron
    Aaron March 25, 2010 at 11:49 am |

    I expect that under the “rules” mentioned in previous episodes, MIB is prohibited from directly killing a candidate. (That would explain why (real) Locke was spared by the smoke monster a few seasons back.) So perhaps, even as Sawyer schemes to steal the submarine, MIB is scheming to have Widmore’s latest gang of thugs slaughter the remaining candidates. (Others here have much better memories than mine – have I forgotten an incident in which MIB/the smoke monster directly killed a candidate?)

    I am skeptical of some of the implications of the last episode – painting the conflict on the Island as a battle between good and evil – as the show to this point has been much more nuanced. If it does turn out to be as simple as “Jacob’s a good guy who wears white and tries to keep evil at bay, even by unpleasant means, while MIB is evil and wants to escape to destroy the world,” I will be disappointed.

    Any Rush fans out there? I couldn’t help but imagine their song, Freewill, as a theme for the episode and, depending upon the outcome, as a potential theme for the series.

  11. Eric A.
    Eric A. March 25, 2010 at 12:02 pm |

    I also found it interesting how Jacob kicked the crap out of Richard as he was approaching the statue. Previously Jacob had always been calm and collected but here he was aggressive to the point where he was practically waterboarding Richard in the ocean.

    I can’t remember any other scenes in which he acted like that.

  12. frau sally benz
    frau sally benz March 25, 2010 at 12:37 pm | *

    Shakatany, the island does move. Remember the scene with Eloise at the Lamp Post? She explained that the island moves, though now I can’t remember if it’s only through time or also through space. I imagine it’s both.

    Aaron, I think it’s hard to say if Smokey ever killed a candidate directly because we don’t know who they all are. For example, if the pilot was a candidate, then he certainly killed him directly. And Smokey also killed Eko, but we don’t know if he was a candidate (or do we? I can’t keep track anymore…).

  13. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub March 25, 2010 at 12:44 pm |

    I think Eko was a candidate–he was on the compass, at least. . .

    I dunno. This ep left me sour–Carbonell is a great actor, but sheesh, the whole good vs. evil god/devil thing makes me throw up a little in my mouth. Maybe it’s because I’m also watching Supernatural and am a little maxed out on that shit right now.

    And yes–again, seconding Astraea–tired of the female prop to advance male character development already.

  14. Astraea
    Astraea March 25, 2010 at 1:25 pm |

    Here’s another thing that gets me… Does Jacob not know that Smokey/MIB is killing people? Is it part of the rules that he gets to kill people that prove his theory? The poor 815 pilot didn’t even do anything. Does he get to kill anyone who isn’t a candidate?

    That makes Jacob’s bringing people to the island to play with downright evil, IMO.

  15. Evrybdy44
    Evrybdy44 March 25, 2010 at 1:35 pm |

    I’ve always been ok w/Jacob. I do find him a tad annoying in some ways, but he grew on me. I get the sentiment of wanting to prove the bad guy wrong, but not to make people do anything and hope the best in them comes out. Bringing these poor saps to the island for that seems a bit mean tho.
    I liked learning about Richard. I also had built his story so far up in my head that I expected more somehow, but I was content w/what they gave us. I loved him by the end. Not that I didn’t like him before, but still. . . I heart Richard.
    I just keep remembering an interview I read w/the writers saying that Jacob is not truly good and FLocke/Smokey isn’t truly evil. That it’s not that simple. So the religious undertones may be unavoidable. But unlike religion it will not be so cut and dry. Which brings me to Sady’s Battlestar comment. Uhhh. . . For such a big fan that’s a very silly statement. Larson is Mormon. Even the name of the planet they all came from (Kobol) is an anagram for Kolob from the Book of Abraham. Polytheism vs. Monotheism. It was always about that. To expect the ending to not be hugely religious is ridiculous. I found it annoying and fascinating at the same time. But I was expecting it, I guess. Had I not been expecting that sort of let down I would have been more upset too. I geared up for it in my head for awhile in advance. It took awhile to wrap my brain around. Not what I would have chosen as the end. But, then, it’s not my show. So essentially my opinion means nothing.

  16. LC
    LC March 25, 2010 at 2:47 pm |

    I think the fact Jacob beat Richard up gives a hint to his nature and past as a violent man.

    I’ll be incredibly disappointed if it turns out to be a simple Good/Evil thing, too. I like to think that Smokey doesn’t think he is evil, and that all his killing is justified by what’s been done to him.

    I really hope whatever background/explanation is given for Jacob, we understand why he formed the Others (to find candidates? Are the Others really a creation of Richard’s to help keep more of them alive?) why they massacred Dharma, and why Ben could summon the Monster before (which seemed to be a side benefit of being the leader of the Others) and the role of “guardian of the island”.

    I had hoped the island was a cork on alternate realities, not on a hell.

  17. Thom
    Thom March 25, 2010 at 3:01 pm |

    I think the comment about the world going to hell simply means that “if you think it is bad now? Wait and see what happens if HE gets out there.

    Or, to make it Vice Presidential:
    Smokey getting off the island is a “Big F*****G Deal.” ;)

  18. B. Adams
    B. Adams March 25, 2010 at 5:41 pm |

    LAUREN: If this show turns out to be six seasons of Christianity Parables Yay! I’m going to be pissed. off.

    Ditto. I actually didn’t like this episode too much. I enjoyed Richard’s backstory, but I wouldn’t want the show to end with “Don’t let Smokey out of the bottle.” I mean, what is that supposed to be a metaphor for? Satan causing people to be evil? That’s a boring idea, for me at least.

  19. Aaron
    Aaron March 25, 2010 at 9:45 pm |

    If the sideways flashes are to a world in which smokey runs free, it doesn’t seem much different.

    Maybe the wine bottle is a metaphor for my speculation about the show. I’m full of ideas, but I’m wrong so often that I really should just put a cork in it. ;-)

  20. Raznor
    Raznor March 27, 2010 at 12:28 pm |

    Eric, I was also interested in ass-kicking Jacob, especially since when Ben killed him, he did nothing to fight back.

    I think book of Job is appropriate metaphor, with Jacob & MIB being God and Satan in that story. Of course this is the story where God is as big a douchebag as possible. “Wow, Job, you sure are a nice guy, so let me kill everyone you ever loved and ruin your life and make sure it’s not just an act.”

  21. Holly
    Holly March 27, 2010 at 8:32 pm |

    I kind of thought that it wasn’t as simple as Jacob and the MIB as Christian allegories, but rather that they were putting it in terms that Richard would understand. I like to think that they are something that predates Christianity. Although it is coming across as very Old Testament so far. Ooh, although with Jacob’s death it could be turning more New Testament. I would rather the explanation wasn’t just about religion, but I won’t be too pissed if it is. If it ends with my favourite character randomly disappearing with no explanation, immediately followed by cute dancing robots? Heads will roll. Also, flying all the technology into the sun? I know this is getting further away from Lost now, but really Ron Moore? Really?!

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