Author: has written 5095 posts for this blog.

Jill has been blogging for Feministe since 2005.
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14 Responses

  1. PrettyAmiable
    PrettyAmiable May 13, 2010 at 1:48 pm |

    I really enjoy reading these pieces by you because your passion for the subject jumps off the screen.

    Thanks for the information!

  2. Amanda in the South Bay
    Amanda in the South Bay May 13, 2010 at 2:00 pm |

    I’ll admit to having somewhat ambiguous feelings about this whole issue.

    I know first hand just how bad DADT is-I was discharged from the Army after coming out as trans (which isn’t technically covered under DADT, but meh). Obviously I agree that its a fucked up policy that should be repealed ASAP (and I very much look forward to the day when trans people can serve openly in the American military).

    I guess having had some actual military experience, I’m a little wary about banning military recruiters from law schools, as well as the separate but very related issue of banning ROTC from elite/urban/coastal schools.

    The problem is that a good sized chunk of the officer corps isn’t representative of the population as a whole. Officers are unfortunately drawn disproportionally from rural and southern schools. I remember on a forum somewhere (can’t think of it off the top of my head) where Allyson Robinson, a trans woman, West Point grad and (I think) current HRC employee, recently visited West Point, and lamented how back not so long ago many West Point students had as their back up schools either Ivy League or similar elite schools. Now they tend to have bumfuck southern schools as their backup choices.

    I find myself genuinely torn over this issue-I know all too well how shitty it can be to discriminated against on the basis of sexual orientation and gender id, and I’ve sorta evolved into an anti-war radical myself, but the military isn’t going away, and I think its important for civil-military relations that this problem be addressed.

    You know how every once in a while you see news stories about the pernicious influence of fundygelical Protestantism in the military? Shenanigans at the USAF Academy? Franklin Graham being invited to the Pentagon? I think there’s a definite connection between the rise of a southern dominated officer corps in the past 20-30 years and this.

  3. libdevil
    libdevil May 13, 2010 at 3:15 pm |

    The notion of military exceptionalism is as pernicious as anything in American politics right now. It leads to needless wars and deaths, and pollutes nearly everything that Congress touches. The Solomon amendment is just another example. Alas, I expect to see a openly gay or atheist President* elected before I see one who’s willing to speak the truth about our military.

    *Neither of which I expect to see in my lifetime.

  4. Rebecca
    Rebecca May 14, 2010 at 1:24 am |

    @ Amanda in the South Bay:

    My university’s talking right now about bringing back ROTC, and there is the point to be made that allowing officers to be recruited from liberal schools would have a positive effect on the military, but it’s ultimately Congress’s call. There are plenty of military voices on both sides of the debate, and there’s no way an overwhelming military consensus on repealing it would sway a Republican Congress anyway, so what’s necessary right now is getting liberal congresspeople. (And a repeal of DADT might have the pleasant side effect of getting all those officers who bluster and threaten to resign to actually do it.)

  5. southpaw
    southpaw May 14, 2010 at 4:15 am |

    Shorter Peter Beinart: You may think that the United States of America is a nation defined by ideas–ideas like liberty and equality for all–but, when you get down to it, it’s all about our badass armed forces so go fuck yourself.

  6. djf
    djf May 14, 2010 at 11:01 am |

    barring recruiters from Harvard Law School because the military discriminates against gays was as counterproductive as banning ROTC from Harvard during Vietnam.

    The comparison holds for another reason. In neither Vietnam nor DADT is the military acting independently. Our military is merely an arm of the federal government. If our elected officials choose to use the armed forces to fight unjust wars, then protest the officials!

    The same is true for DADT. The military DOES NOT discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation. Congress does. In fact, when military leaders recently called for repealing DADT, they were rebuffed by Congress! Protesting JAG recruiting only serves to stigmatize the military in the country’s top law schools. It doesn’t further the cause because the object of the protest is not the one discriminating against anyone.

  7. Q Grrl
    Q Grrl May 14, 2010 at 11:32 am |

    “It’s a statement of profound alienation from your country, and will be received by other Americans as such.”

    So is being banned from serving in your country’s military. Just sayin’.

  8. Lisa
    Lisa May 14, 2010 at 11:44 am |

    So instead of doing as your school did, Jill, and complying so as to keep federal funds without encouraging the recruiters, Kagan chose to actively make the recruiters’ experience as easy as possible, at the expense of her LGBTQA students, faculty, and staff.

    Everything I read about her suggests she only ever makes politically expedient choices and has yet to take a moral stand on anything. I find it disheartening that she is Obama’s first choice.

  9. Sailorman
    Sailorman May 14, 2010 at 1:16 pm |

    The ideas of our nation and their practical execution are complex and often conflicting; and moreover the millions of citizens of the country have very different concepts of what those ideas are and how they should be put into practice. Viewing this as a black and white issue on a personal level makes sense. Expecting the government to do so–or expecting that of someone like Kagan, who is responsible to large groups of people with diverse opinions–is not.

  10. Tracey
    Tracey May 14, 2010 at 3:30 pm |

    djf:
    Prior to DADT, the ban on gay people serving in the military was in place under military law. Had the military changed its law, then Clinton and Congress would not have had to step in to come up with this “compromise.” It was not Congress’s fault that prior to DADT the military asked a question about sexuality on recruiting forms, conducted withchunts for LGB servicemembers and forced people to make confessions under stressful circumstances and the threat of jail time for lying on their intake forms and being outed to their family,etc.
    The blame for DADT belongs in large part to the military. The truth is, compared to the former policy of the military DADT is a godsend where being outed doesn’t mean possible jail time b/c you lied on intake forms and witch hunts are banned.

  11. djf
    djf May 14, 2010 at 3:37 pm |

    Tracey, you’re right about pre-DADT. But my point stands that opposing DADT by protesting JAG recruiters – who have no responsibility for DADT nor authority to change it – is not productive.

  12. Tracey
    Tracey May 14, 2010 at 8:01 pm |

    djf:
    I apologize, I took your post as saying the military had no responsibility for the policy (I believe their refusal to act led to Presidential and then Congressional interference). I believe that Hagan’s position and those of other is that since they do not allow recruiters from other organizations that discriminate to come to some functions, the military should not be an exception.

  13. emmie
    emmie May 16, 2010 at 8:59 am |

    Djf I completely agree with the points you have made. It is not productive to protest JAG recruiters when they are not the ones making this policy. Congress is the one who has made this policy. Those are the people you should protest. JAG recruiters are simply there doing there job. As a matter of fact, many people in the military do not agree the DADT, but they have no power to change it.
    My goal as a law student is to hopefully become part of the JAG corp, and there is a huge stigma against the military at my school. The backlash I have gotten from some because I choose this route has been strong. I am also conflicted on this subject because I do not agree with DADT, but I know I want to join the military. I have my personal reasons and I know that is where I belong.
    I don’t agree with the treatment of JAG recruiters such as making appointments and not showing up and wasting their time. These individuals for their own personal reasons choose to join the military they are not making policy in the military and I don’t think treating them as if they were responsible for this is correct. We need to protest to the politicians these are the people with the power to change this, and I hope it will be change soon because it is far overdue for this change to occur.

  14. Tracey
    Tracey May 17, 2010 at 7:56 am |

    To all the people concerned about targeting recruiters I have to wonder:
    There was a college basketball coach that didn’t allow lesbians to play. If a high school prevented recruiters for that basketball team to come to recruit their students would you be outraged? I mean, it is the coach making the policy, not the recruiters or other team members, so the same sympathy should apply. But I seriously hope no one would jump down a school’s throat for not allowing people to come recruit for a discriminatory team, regardless of who made the policy.

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