Tuesday LOST Roundtable: The End

Major spoilers ahead.

Jack and Kate sitting on the ground, with Hurley sitting behind them, watching. Jack is bloody and is holding his side, Kate looks concerned.

This week on Lost, the episode we’ve all been waiting for. Jack is Jesus, Hugo’s the protector, reunions made us gush, and Vincent made us cry. Read our discussion below and let us know your own thoughts and theories in the comments.

Let’s start with the island. Jack’s on a mission to kill Flocke and Flocke’s on a mission to kill the island. They all go to the light together and Desmond is able to do both: make Flocke killable and start destroying the island. What did you guys think?

CARA: I’d probably think a lot more if we had any idea what the light and the cave and the plug actually were. Since they never told us that and all of it was basically just a series of props that either looked cool or really pathetic, it’s kind of hard to think a lot. It was fun to watch, though.

LAUREN: I love that the solution to the Flocke problem was un-penising a giant vagina-object, and the solution to the island problem was shoving the penis-object back in the island-vagina. Really?

SALLY: I feel like maybe they think they explained these things or that they are just so mysterious that they have no answer. I also feel like maybe the shaking of the ground and whatnot was supposed to remind us of the flashes when the island was skipping through time. So the light is the same thing that causes both? Anyhoo, it certainly was fun to watch and I kind of like the idea that both Flocke and Jack were right, but it was just a matter of who would actually win in the end. To that end, I loved that the winner was actually Kate!

Kate saves the day by killing Flocke. Awesome scene, or what?!

CARA: I literally pumped both fists in the air and screamed YES!!! at the top of my lungs. No exaggeration. I was like one of those screaming drunk dudes at a football game with the face-paint on. It was compulsive. It doesn’t in any way make up for what they’ve done (or failed to do) with Kate for the past 5 years, but I did get a serious amount of satisfaction out of it.

JILL: I also fist-pumped and yelled! Kate was so fucking Rambo in that scene, it was amazing.

LAUREN: I totally cheered.

I also enjoyed that Kate didn’t stay with Jack. I think that showed some growth in her character, that completing her own mission (getting Claire back to Aaron, and also getting her own ass of the island) were more important to her than standing by Jack no matter what he did, even though she did still love him.

SALLY: I was really happy with Kate’s ending. I think it was one of the highlights of the episode. I was so happy she was the one to kill Flocke and I think it does at least make up for the whole name-crossed-off-the-list thing. For a moment, I thought she might end up staying with Jack, but I was happy they finally realized that she should have ambitions beyond getting with Jack. Their kiss bugged me a bit, but whatevs.

SADY: Yeah, they actually gave Kate something worthwhile to do and an identity of her own outside of the eternal Which Dude Will She Do question, and it only took the entire series to get around to it! Good job! Granted, it doesn’t necessarily make up for the crappy way they wrote her, or the fact that her purpose turned out to be about birthin’ babies (as it is for, like, most of the female characters on this show; Ana-Lucia had a baby thing, as did Juliet, Claire, Sun, Eloise Hawking; the only characters to escape from it were Shannon, whose life purpose was doing a dude outside of her family, and Rose, whose purpose was giving folksy advice at random) but I was just so happy to see her accomplishing something genuinely commendable, on the show’s own terms, that I didn’t even think about it in the moment.

Richard’s alive, Lapidus is alive. Together with Miles, they get the plane ready to get off the island. What’s up with them being alive? What the heck do you infer happened to everyone who made it on the plane?

CARA: I was both really happy about them being alive and really, really angry about it. Because them both being alive means that Sayid is the only one who got the really shitty insta-death. Why my favorite character? It is so incredibly not fair.

LAUREN: Cara, were you happy with Sayid’s Sideways send-off? Even though Sayid died, like, twelve times in the series, I thought it made up for the abrupt bomb scene in the submarine a dozen times over.

CARA: As I discuss below, I was surprisingly pleased about the Sayid/Shannon reunion. I always thought that Nadia was the love of Sayid’s life, and would have assumed that he’d have rather been with her … but as far as things go, they pulled it off pretty well. I really loved it when Hurley started giving Sayid the speech about how he was actually a good guy and how he needed to believe it. And I was like yes, yes, so close! But instead of reflecting on that or even just saying “thank you,” he instead said that Hurley clearly didn’t know him, and was wrong. And they were so close. If Sayid would have had his revelation in sideways land, it would have at least been the next best thing. He did seem happy with Shannon and I was happy that he was happy, but I wish that he had at least had his “yeah, I am a good guy” moment. He could have even just had a moment when he remembered everything, where he lingered on the knowledge that he sacrificed himself for everyone and realized what that meant about him! Sigh.

JILL: I watched LOST with 8 people, and every time they brought back a character we loved, we all cheered. There was a lot of cheering. I was obviously VERY happy that Lapidus is still alive, since I love him. And I appreciate that the writers basically pandered to their fans throughout the whole episode. Most of the great characters came back, Hurley got his due, Kate got her due, and they made a bunch of insidery jokes that I’ll admit I loved.

CARA: I definitely didn’t predict Miles and Lapidus being two characters who would make it all the way to the end of the show. I’m not complaining, because I think they’re both great (though given the choice, I’d of course trade their lives for those of several characters who did die!), but it was pretty surprising to me. As for what happened to everyone who made it on the plane, I think they got home, and just lived. Claire was probably reunited with Aaron, Sawyer and Miles probably went off together somewhere as best buddies and were awesome, Richard got to live a real life which I think is great, Lapidus hopefully retired from being a pilot, because dear god, and hopefully Kate somehow managed to avoid prison for breaking her parole, but was definitely Aaron’s favorite aunt. I imagine that they would have had a hell of a lot to explain to the airport where they eventually landed, though.

SALLY: I was really happy when I saw that Richard was still alive, but I yelled out “no way, he’s alive?!” when I saw Lapidus. Of course, I’m glad he was there to fix the plane and get them back home, but I was definitely bummed that Lapidus got to live while so many others had to die.

I also have to say that I was pleasantly surprised that any of them made it on the plane and, presumably, off the island. I was also happy about who made it off. Sawyer can finally live a life without worrying about getting the revenge he needs, Claire can raise Aaron, and Kate can figure out whatever the heck it is that makes her happy. Richard leaving was also great now that he is no longer ageless and has spent enough time on the island to appreciate that it’s not the worst thing in the world to be off the island leading a normal life. Lapidus only went there to find out what happened with the passengers and to help them get off, so he got to save them not once, but twice. Miles was just along for the ride and I am a bit indifferent about him getting off, but it’s nice anyway.

LAUREN: I was also a little excited to see that some people made it off the island — it’s funny, too, because all of the season finales featured a splintering of the group. A lot of the show, looking back, is waiting with bated breath to see if there will be a reunion of our beloved characters after the group separates. In this one the separation was final — some stay, some go, but it all relies on the martyrdom of the leader. Good stuff.

Jack makes Hurley the protector of the island, and Hurley asks Ben to help him. Were you surprised by this? Happy? Angry? Annoyed?

SALLY: Not gonna lie – my initial reaction was “Hurley can’t leave the island because he’s too fat to climb down the ladder?!” But I actually like that Hurley ended up with this important task. He really does like helping people and he hated being off the island. Ben’s look when Jack annoints Hurley is SO FUNNY, but I think this a good ending for both of them.

CARA: Well I didn’t gather than Hurley thought he couldn’t get down the ladder, but that he was like “um, screw you, I’m so not doing that.” But in any case, I liked things being in Hurley’s hands — and I liked what Ben said about how he could do things differently. I like to think that they found a way to get Desmond home. What exactly they did after that, and what exactly the magical glowy light needed protection from anyway with Smokey dead, I have no idea, but it was an odd and surprising pairing, and I enjoyed it.

LAUREN: I have a little soft spot for Ben, so it was good to see him get some redemption in both worlds.

SADY: Haha, I got (yet another) Sun and Jin reunion, Kate with something to do, Jack dead, AND Hurley as the protector of the Island. All of my dreams have come true! All I needed was for Arzt to be waiting on the other side of the door to the Promised Land, and I would have been perfectly satisfied. But, yes, in conclusion: Hugo was so the only good choice! I knew it! You knew it! The Island knew it! All has come about as it should!

The sideways world was full of reunions – which was your favorite?

SALLY: I think the clear winner of the night was Sawyer & Juliet. Holy crap – loved it! Although, I must say that Ben apologizing to Locke and Locke accepting his apology, cried like a baby at that.

CARA: Yes, I really, really loved Sawyer and Juliet. That was perfect. I enjoyed Sayid and Shannon a lot more than I thought I would have, though it’s quite possibly just because I love Sayid. I also really loved Sun and Jin not only recognizing what had happened, but then grinning ridiculously at Sawyer afterward, when he still had no clue. Same thing with Hurley and Charlie.

SUN AND JIN SUN AND JIN SUN AND JIN. I was so bitter over those kids getting, like, A DAY together before their watery grave claimed them. Now they can effectively have already been married and still hang out. AND get a fresh start, without all the assorted horrors they got into the last time. My whole thing about the Jin and Sun relationship, which I cannot stop talking about apparently and mention creepily in every freaking recap, has been about that. Without excusing either of them, I think everybody can connect to the idea of having one relationship that started out wonderfully and then just went wrong, despite the fact that you were both pretty decent people and you really did love each other; the idea of these two people essentially getting to start over is really moving to me, in that Eternal Sunshine way and I thank the Mystical Powers of Sideways World for that.

Except, wait, they’re dead still. But they can hang out in Heaven! I guess! I was basically calling the Sawyer and Juliet thing throughout the season — I knew she would show up in the last episode and ask him out for coffee — but it was really sweet, so that’s good. And I was really surprised by how much I liked Charlie and Claire finding each other. And… oh, God. For about five seconds, I was moved by the fact that Jack got to talk to his Dad. I WAS MOVED! I ADMIT IT! DAMN MY EYES.

SALLY: I know, I didn’t think I’d care much about Charlie and Claire, but I was bawling like a baby.

We got what we wanted! Jack dies! Thoughts?

CARA: Dude, they pulled the dog card. I was so incredibly thrilled to see Vincent earlier in the episode — I was going to be so crushed if we ended the show without seeing him one last time. Then, when Jack was stumbling through the jungle and it was clear that he was going to die in the same spot he landed in and the final frame was going to be him closing his eye, I thought to myself “lol, where’s Vincent coming out of the jungle?” AND THEN HE DID. And then he laid down next to Jack so that Jack wouldn’t die alone! And I was like omg, fuck you LOST, you cannot make me cry over Jack’s death.

But seriously, I was crying over the dog, people. Even though they did manage to kind of make me like Jack again just a little bit. (I really loved when he told Smokey that he was dishonoring John Locke’s memory by wearing his face.) Loyal dog stories just kill me.

SADY: Haha, every time I thought Jack was dead — like when Locke beaned him with that rock — I got so happy. And then I learned they were going to drag it out for the entire episode. Jack gets to die AND process the fact that he’s dead AND he gets a special So You’re Dead Now party with all his friends AND he makes a cryface about it. EVEN DEATH will not stop Jack from whining! But we totally did call it, didn’t we, with the Ultimate Sacrifice For The Sake Of The Island thing? Jack is literally the Jesus Christ Almighty of the Lost universe, and they are not above lingering on statues of Jesus Christ Almighty to make that point.

JILL: LOST did the impossible with this episode: They made me care about Jack. I was actually rooting for him, and I was sad when he died. But I only went on Team Jack because (a) he stopped acting like such a douche, and (b) Smokey threatened Rose and Bernard, making him clearly The Evilest Person Ever. You do NOT fuck with Rose and Bernard!

Also, VINCENT! I cried.

LAUREN: Sigh, Vincent. I cheered.

I actually gave a shit about Jack here — not in Sideways World, where Jack is the cryingest person on television — but in his final scenes in Island Time, dying a slow, lonely death, comforted by dear Vincent, with the plane he schemed would get him off the island flying overhead. He had to die alone so his loved ones could live together. For a character who was so often frustrating and douchey, it was a just and poetic end.

SALLY: I didn’t care much about Vincent (sorry…), but I did get some satisfaction to seeing Jack die, even if he got the most Lost of Lost death scenes. I didn’t actually cry when he died, though I was crying through some of the sideways footage in the last scene. And, I totally did feel some nice warm fuzzy feelings about Jack – he lost some of his annoyingness.

We also get confirmation that the entire show is about faith. As if that was not obvious enough, the final scene ends at a place of worship. Did anybody see that coming – learning that the sideways world and church was the purgatory and then afterlife for the Losties?

CARA: I definitely didn’t see it coming. My husband also had to explain it to me. :) But I’m cool with it. I can’t really explain why I’m cool with it, because it’s something that I’d usually hate and that I feel like I should hate, but I just don’t.

The sideways world also makes a lot of sense, now. It was kind of like a dream, I guess — most things were in place and made sense, but others were just off and not how they were supposed to be. It also seems that in their sideways worlds, each person was trying to make up for something that they felt they screwed up while they were alive — Jack with his father/son issues as well as “doing right” by John Locke (though I don’t like how that was handled), Claire being with Aaron, Sun and Jin not being separated, Ben having a relationship with Alex, Hurley doing good with his lottery winnings instead of bad. I’m having trouble figuring out Sayid, Kate, and Charlie, though. I’m thinking that maybe Kate was telling the truth — in her sideways world, she really was innocent. Charlie’s mission might have simply been to help Desmond in the way that Desmond had helped him. And Sayid? Either he felt that it was bad for Nadia to ever be with him, or he just felt so badly about himself and his life that he thought the failure of his life was at any point having any sort of happiness ever. Which is depressing.

JILL: I definitely did not see the opposite-purgatory thing coming — because that’s what it was, right? It was like pre-heaven purgatory, not kinda-Hell purgatory? Anyway, interesting.

CARA: Right. Basically, they were all still hung up on what could have been and saying “if only the plane had never crashed.” They had to let go of the idea that it ever could have been or was supposed to have been any other way before they could move on together and actually be happy. The bomb never did anything — the “secret” that Juliet wanted to tell Sawyer as she died and her saying “it worked” was actually all about the vending machine in the sideways. And presumably Desmond saw the sideways world because the electromagnetism was so strong that it temporarily stopped his heart or something.

SALLY: Even though I knew that the show was centering on faith/spirituality, I was really surprised by this turn. I was slightly annoyed at first, but the more I thought about it, the more it made sense and I really like it now. I think the most interesting thing about the heaven-purgatory thing is seeing how some of the core differences are resolved. Locke not having any faith at first, Sayid thinking that the best thing might be for Nadia to be with somebody else, etc. I did think it was a bit odd how some of the lesser characters really play a role in that, especially the ones who didn’t have any real breakthrough, like Charlotte, but… whatever.

I was wondering how Desmond saw the sideways world, but I guess him dying for a moment is a good enough explanation.

SADY: Actually, I have a sort of science-fictiony theory regarding this! I am not so sure it is all about faith! Because, yeah, the Jesusy religious allegory toward the end was fairly heavy, and heavy-handed, and I actually groaned aloud and typed “are they going to make this ALL ABOUT GOD” into my notes. (I don’t think any work of fiction should definitively assert that God exists and thereby effectively make God a character; it’s deus ex machina, it’s a solution that’s too big and too easy to make for a compelling story, and I seriously doubt that your serialized TV show is the greatest theological work of all time so I doubt you know God/The Powers That Be well enough to define them in a way that I’ll buy; I don’t have a problem with you substantively hinting at a larger metaphysical power, and really enjoy it in fact, but I think you should always have an alternate explanation for that power’s “actions” within the story so as to leave some mystery in the picture. Otherwise, it’s just a hubristic and cheesy move.) BUT: When Jack saw the plane passing overhead, as he died, I formed myself a brand-new theory. I think that, in the Sideways World, which actually was a parallel and alternate timeline, the Island was in fact destroyed by Flocke. But since Jack sacrificed himself to save the Island, the Island remained afloat, thus causing a paradox. There are now two versions of at least some of these castaways — one from each timeline. And since the mutual existence of those two realities would be impossible, a paradox, the Sideways World actually did merge with and collapse into the original timeline, leading all the alterna-castaways to “remember” their other lives and ascend into mystic glowy worlds of wonder. Not saying it’s not Jesusy! But since Lost has always played with both the science thing and the faith thing, I like to believe there are at least two explanations. That saves the whole damn finale — for me, anyway — from feeling like some drippy New Age text and making me terminally impatient.

LAUREN: I wouldn’t call it “purgatory,” per se, or even “heaven” so much as “afterlife.” Despite carrying on religious themes for the duration of the show they were smart enough to keep things vague and non-denominational enough that us obsessive fan-geeks couldn’t research the subject’s accuracy into the ground. I can’t say I was down with the religious themes, or at least the heavy-handedness of said religious themes. Sady, I also thought we were looking at some kind of paradoxical bend in time, something the show seemed to be hinting at all the way up until the last fifteen minutes when Christian Shepard showed up to mansplain Sideways World to the audience. The rest of the finale really worked for me — it REALLY worked for me thematically and as a finale — until then. I don’t know if I can forgive the show for boiling down half of the last season to “LOL IT WAS ALL A DREAM.”

I know I’ve complained a lot about “heavy-handedness” in this final season, but I think the show’s strengths have not been dialogue or explanation. The show’s strengths are in building mystery and sustaining inertia — and I hearted the brilliant inertia in Jack’s death scene! — so for the final moments of the show to be given such a pat explanation and be completely devoid of narrative movement was jarring and weird. Schmaltzy. Which sucks because the rest of the finale worked so well. This is part of the reason that I resented the religious themes so much: instead of providing a plausible story and confirming that they really did have an idea of where the second half of the story was going to go, EVEN IF they didn’t detail every answer for every question the audience may have had, they settled for cliche.

Notably, Ben chooses to stay outside of the kumbaya reunion. What did everyone think about that?

SADY: Okay, here are MY THOUGHTS: I like Ben okay. But Ben killed an entire town, INCLUDING HIS OWN FAMILY, became a dictator, fucked over and lied to everyone that we cared about for years, killed God, and still gets to (a) co-rule the Island and (b) get his family back and (c) get a personalized invite to Heaven which he doesn’t even have to accept because his new life with his resurrected daughter is just way more awesome. What did Michael do? Kill two people and tell one lie? And he’s damned to eternal torment? Ana-Lucia… accidentally shot Shannon and made Sayid sad. And she’s not good enough to ascend into the mystical glowy world? Eko? WHAT THE FUCK DID EKO DO WRONG? Without killing the finale buzz, I have to tell you, this was just a little more confirmation for me that Lost gave up on being anything other than a story about white dudes a long time ago.

CARA: I am really disappointed about Eko not ever showing up. That was bullshit. As for Michael … I mean, Michael’s character has gotten repeatedly screwed on the basis of his story being tied to that of his son, played by an actor that grew up way too quickly, something that nobody could have ever predicted in advance. Well, at least, that’s the official reason his character has gotten screwed. But I really do think that it would have been difficult to resolve Michael’s story without Walt. He couldn’t have been ready to “let go” without Walt.

At the same time, I don’t think that them failing to move onto heaven (or whatever) was really about them being good or bad, but as everyone kept saying, about them being “ready” to move on. I really, really would have liked to have seen Michael, Eko, Ana Lucia, and even Miles in the church, too, and I’m disappointed that they weren’t. I do think that it’s incredibly disrespectful to the characters (who are all of color!) to say that while everyone in that room mattered deeply to each other, those characters didn’t count. But I don’t necessarily think it’s the same thing as saying that those characters were worse people than Ben?

As for why Ben actually stayed behind, I’m not really sure I get it. Did he think that his purgatory was so awesome that even heaven couldn’t beat it? Did he feel like he still hadn’t properly atoned for Alex’s death, or some of his other evil deeds, and therefore still wasn’t ready to let go and move on? It was an interesting choice that I didn’t quite get.

SALLY: I got the sense that he really liked his own purgatory, but also that maybe the shock of all the things he did made him feel he wasn’t ready to move on yet. I thought it was an interesting last spin when the characters were all getting their closure.

JILL: I didn’t think that it was that people weren’t good enough, it was that they weren’t ready or couldn’t leave. Michael said as much in his episodes; when Hurley saw Ana Lucia, he said that “she isn’t ready” also. And Ben didn’t feel ready to go either, so he’s going to stay stuck in kinda-Heaven.

And my guess is that the actor who played Eko didn’t want to be in the finale, not that they didn’t invite him. Although I was seriously disappointed that he wasn’t there (also Walt!).

SALLY: I totally wanted to see Eko, even though I didn’t think we would. But if anybody out there was at TimesTalks Lost or one of the screenings – total let-down or what with Walt not being in the episode?? Who, wha, huh?

Yeah, the actor who played Eko apparently asked to be written off the show, and doesn’t have a good relationship with the Lost crew, from what I understand. I’m not surprised that he didn’t come back, though I am disappointed. But I still think it was ominous and gross that the church scene effectively contained the characters we “liked” or that the writers thought we would want to see — and that all but one of the show’s black characters, and several characters of color and/or women, were not deemed important enough by the writers to get their absolution and redemption along with everyone else. Ana-Lucia wasn’t “not ready” for some compelling plot reason; Michael wasn’t “trapped” due to some overwhelming sin (because Ben’s committed worse, and he’s allowed his transcendence); some writers decided that they were “unready” or “trapped” because they didn’t think we’d want to see them in the show’s final scene. Which fucking blows.

Most importantly, did you all find the episode satisfying? Does it make up for the season?

CARA: For what it was, I really, really enjoyed it. I went in without expectations, seeing how disappointing the whole season had been up to this point, and that seemed to work. I got big things I wanted — Vincent (VINCENT!!!), Juliet, and Kate doing something non-useless. I thought it was a great 2 hours of television.

That said, the more I think about it, the more annoyed I get, on the basis that the characters were resolved but absolutely nothing else was. They resolved the characters well enough that I managed to forget about this both throughout the episode and for about 20 minutes afterward, but once I remembered that, hey, we never even learned why it was that Smokey wanted to leave the island so bad in the first place, why on earth they couldn’t just let him, what the island was, why pregnant women die there, and so on … well, I’m actually pretty fucking pissed about that. Not surprised, but pissed, yeah. I mean, it’s pretty clear that they didn’t have a plan all along, as they’d been so adamantly claiming. Maybe for the characters, but knowing that the show would end on Jack dying isn’t the same as them knowing what they were doing when they created this mystery island with all of its strange properties and happenings.

SALLY: Oh! So I went to TimesTalks Lost last week and personally asked Damon Lindelof as he was leaving the building if we’d ever find out about the pregnant women. He said “you will get a significant amount of information about the fertility issues on the island – but not on the finale.” So, I’m guessing DVD extras or something of the sort? I don’t know, but he didn’t seem surprise about my concern and was really confident about his answer. I guess maybe one season really wasn’t enough for them to give us all the answers.

As far as the episode… I was pissed about the lack of answers when it ended. I wanted to know how Lapidus would fly out without knowing the exact coordinates, or how Hurley became the protector without the incantation that’s supposed to happen. But, I’ve come to terms with the lack of answers and am satisfied with the finale. I think they answered the questions as fully as they ever thought of them, so, whatever. As Cara says, it was a great 2.5 hours of television and there really were some bright moments in there. I loved Sawyer in this episode, Juliet was awesome, the Ben/Hurley pairing was great, and even Jack wasn’t as annoying as usual (or maybe I was just happy he was dying?).

LAUREN: I loved how they rounded out the character stories, but hate how they rounded off Sideways World. Once it exists as a complete story, all that Sideways World works for is providing a platform to look back on much-loved characters without resorting to a cheesy montage. Does it redeem the season? Eh. I don’t want to be the hipster in the corner who is all, “Their early work was their best; their third album sucked,” but I am. It’s not about whether the finale redeemed the season, it’s where this season fit with the rest of the series, and how the mythical elements that were introduced in the twelfth hour were handled respective to the story up to then. I know I sound curmudgeonly, but I guess I’m annoyed that they bothered to make this mystical, mysterious island a central part of a science-fiction story, but neglected to include any of this in the send-off. One reviewer suggested that the story would have worked just as well without the addition of the Sideways storyline, and I completely agree — and now that we know that Sideways world was an afterlife, I posit that the story would have been better without it. Look, I’m a hard atheist with a hard-on for a science fiction show that ended with a salute to feel-good religious uplift. Yes, I’m disappointed.

SADY: When Cuse & Lindelof were being all, “but it’s about the CHARACTERS,” I was really skeptical. First of all, the show frequently didn’t know how to WRITE for these characters; second, we heard that around the time of the Battlestar Galactica finale — to which everyone and her brother is comparing this episode, today, probably because they both ultimately shrugged their shoulders and got all “God did it” toward the very end — which was catastrophic. But it… worked. To a surprising degree. It was really far from perfect, because the SHOW was far from perfect, but in the reunion scenes, or when Jack got to close out his arc by reconciling with his dad and returning to the bamboo forest, when we got a chance to reflect on how much time we’d spent with these people and how much they’d changed, I actually was moved in a way that I did not expect to be. Lost actually got me to care about the characters here, and what happened to them. More than I actually cared about the resolution to any of the mysteries. And, for that, I think it deserves some substantial applause.

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43 comments for “Tuesday LOST Roundtable: The End

  1. herong
    May 25, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Despite carrying on religious themes for the duration of the show they were smart enough to keep things vague and non-denominational enough that us obsessive fan-geeks couldn’t research the subject’s accuracy into the ground.

    REALLY?? JACK’S FATHER’S NAME IS CHRISTIAN SHEPHARD!!!!! (Ps, that scene were Kate was like, really? was quite funny.) THEY WERE IN A CHURCH WITH ANGELS!!

    I liked the closure but I was SO disappointed to have watched 6 seasons of Christian allegory. And I was SO SO SO pissed to see possibly non-Christian members of the cast go to “Heaven.” Sayid is probably Islamic. While I can’t remember the specifics of Jin and Sun’s marriage ceremony, there’s a 20% chance they’re Buddhist. And all the “atheist” characters. So disappointing.

  2. Marc
    May 25, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    Great review, yall. I still think about Vincent and Jack and get a little chokey.

    The more I think about sideways world, the more awesome it feels as the afterlife weigh station, where you come to grips with the worldly issues that plagued you before moving on to the next level of consciousness. Think about Ben and Alex and Rousseau working through their relationships. Think about Widmore trying to make it all up to Des, even down to the whiskey. Think about Locke coping with killing his father on the island, or Jin trying to get over being such a crappy husband early on, or Jack finally learning how to emotionally connect with people through his not-kid. Sure, they mangled a few of the sideways figuring-stuff-out arcs (like Kate’s and Sayid’s) but they got a lot of them right.

    Then add in the implications of what we learned about the characters through dialogue in the afterlife — that Ben and Hurley had years of adventures together on the island, that Kate had been waiting decades to see Jack again (however lame their love seemed at times), etc. — and the whole thing seems pretty profound for network TV to me.

    Warts and all, I’d do it again.

  3. Marc
    May 25, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Ack, apologies for poor use of lame. #fail

  4. May 25, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    All I can say is that I want my 120 1/2 hours back!! I feel the ending was such a copout – the creators set up all these mysteries and made it so they never had to bother answering the questions that arose…very lazy scriptwriting. Yes the characters were interesting but so was all the plotlines with Hanso, the Dharma Initiative, the Egyptian statue etc. that were never cleared up.

    They wrote themselves into a corner re the island and left so many mysteries unsolved. It was for those answers that I stuck around for all these years. It came across a humongously long episode of “The Twilight Zone”.

    So if all that happened on the island was “real” did that mean the grownups took off leaving little Hank and Emma to fend for themselves? Or had they already been killed off by Widmore or Smokey. See it’s unresolved stuff like this that’s making me so mad.

    And can you imagine what happens when that plane touched down somewhere and people wanted to know what happened to the others on board and where it had been – “oh we were on a magic island with a smoke monster.” And Richard – can a man from the 19th century find his way around the 21st? All in all a frustrating mess :(

  5. May 25, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    That said, the more I think about it, the more annoyed I get

    Yeah, that’s why I… don’t think about it very hard. Because: who needs thinking when you just have a lot of feelings! /mean girls

    It’s interesting to me that everyone is calling the post-white-light thing “heaven” – I get that they were in a church, but in the room with Christian’s coffin they did include a lot of symbols of other faiths. To me, it reminded me most of a tweaked version of the belief some people have that you keep living different lives till you live one that works out for you, basically, and then you go on to something else; and also a bit of the Our Town thing, where the dead are waiting for “what comes after,” which despite the explicit Christianity of many of the characters isn’t really, IMO, painted as necessarily in accordance with Christian beliefs (I mean: I would never refer to Our Town as a Christian play).

    I also am intrigued by Christian telling Jack “everything that ever happened to you is real” – to me that legitimizes the Sideways world as being not the reality we’re used to, but a different but equally true and important reality that exists in the LOSTverse. Less an afterlife, and more a next-life.

    And, speaking of what an A+ job the producers did of pandering, because you can interpret it however the hell you want, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it :) Seriously though, I have never seen such a fanservicey show. An hour in I started getting really nervous, because it’s such typical Lost style to make your heart swell and then stomp all over it, so I expected it to end with something horrible, like all of them dying. But then… they did die, because everyone died, and it wasn’t horrible at all. Which, bonus (and do I think the writers planned this? …maybe, not sure): remember the Jacob/MIB episode? What was Jacob’s biggest fear/one of his primary motivations? His inability to accept death. Jacob is the worst character ever on the show, and the finale proved him totally wrong about that (which, extra bonus, touches on a pet thing of mine).

    Also – like Sady (unless I’m misinterpreting her), I thought the plane at the end was Oceanic 815, and Jack died happy because he knew he was sending them off, in a way, to get a do-over.

    Unlike Sady, Lost has always been mostly about the characters to me, because I knew from like ten episodes into season one there was zero way this was ever getting explained via science fiction. It’s true that the writers are not super good at… actual writing, including characterization; but the casting crew deserves a fucking medal because the show was so fucking well-acted throughout, and the actors sold almost every thing that happened, even the stupid ones, so fucking well, that I fell for a lot of them. I mean: look how happy we were (self VERY much included) at the Sawyer and Juliet reunion, when we as an audience never saw that relationship happen. It was just like, BAM, relationship, but it worked, and became a thing a lot of people loved, pretty much entirely, in my opinion, because of the outstandingly compelling performances of Josh Holloway and Elizabeth Mitchell. So – the writers lucked out, in a way, because with a lesser cast I’d definitely react to their it’s-about-character statement all “lol no.” But, to me, the cast overcame the shitty writing.

    And, bonus on a kind of meta-level – by focusing the finale the way they did, the writers basically said “looking for answers in life is WAY less important than making out and having friends,” which as a committed apathetic agnostic basically sums up my own life philosophy.

    WHOA okay this is already tl;dr and not even close to all my thoughts, which I think means it’s time to take the rest to my own blog. But, those are the most important bits.

  6. Ian Samuel
    May 25, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    I was a huge fan of this finale and found it very moving. I think it is a polarizing finale in this way: If you liked LOST, you probably liked this finale a lot. If you’d started to not like LOST and were hoping for the finale to “redeem” it, then you probably hated it. The negative comments I’ve seen have all been of the form “this finale is just the most recent example of how LOST started sucking a while ago.” The positive comments have been from people who, like me, have liked the show throughout (while acknowledging that like any long creative work, there are better and worse parts) (tattoo episode).

    I’ve heard literally no one say “LOST was so great all through Season 6 but then I was let down by the very last episode.” I think that’s telling, and perfectly appropriate. The writers never intended to use this last episode to convince the haters; they wrote the show for the people who liked it.

    This fits in with my General Theorem of Art, which is simply that it is not important that a given artwork appeal to everyone; what matters is that it be, to some people, the best thing they have ever seen. The more people the better, obviously, but that is the only spot worth aiming for. It is better to have a hundred people think what you are doing is simply transcendent than to have a million people think it’s pretty good. (It’s best of all, of course, to have a million people think it’s transcendent.) (And you might make more money at the “1 million/pretty good” level; but that’s a [perfectly reasonable and valid] business concern separate from the artistic and aesthetic point I am making. Besides, you make most money of all at the “1 million/transcendent” level.)

    It will take many months and years of reflection before I can durably relate Lost to the other great television shows I have watched, like Six Feet Under, The Wire, and of course, the West Wing. But right now, Lost feels like the best thing I’ve ever seen. I loved it and anticipated it in a way that I have not ever for anything else, and I did so throughout; I TiVo’d the very first episode back in September 2004 (and it was one of the first things I TiVo’d, as I had just gotten one for my birthday in August) and have watched ever since.

    I felt like the finale was written for me, and people like me; people who loved Lost and cared more than anyone about how it ended. Lost’s finale will anger the people who didn’t like the show, but it wasn’t important that they like the finale. The finale didn’t matter to them. But it mattered a lot to me, and I felt like the writers and show runners and actors all understood that, and that they wrote—for two and a half hours—a finale just for me.

    So farewell, Lost. For now, and maybe forever, you’re the best thing I’ve ever seen.

  7. JP
    May 25, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    I think the “but it’s about the CHARACTERS” argument is a total cop-out. The show is about the characters AND the mysteries of the island. Since the pilot! Don’t spend the first couple of seasons giving us SOLID answers to the various questions we have (i.e. what is the hatch? did the button actually do anything? why the polar bears?) and then just, you know…stop. I don’t need the answers to everything, I like figuring things out for myself. But don’t spend so much time focusing on what are obviously huge plot points (why is walt special? fertility problems? the origins of the island? frickin’ dharma and what they were doing all this time…) and then pull the “characters” card. It was the mysteries of the island that kept me interested, and how the characters were going to deal with these mysteries. Please, if I thought it was actually about Jack this entire time I don’t know if I could’ve kept watching it….

    As far as all the Jesus-y stuff, meh. The show has had a lot of Christian imagery throughout the show (Christian Shepherd, Eko’s stick and church, The heroine-Marys, baptizing Aaron, Eloise’s church) so I wasn’t much surprised. I did however really, really appreciate that in the room where Jack and Christian chat there is a stained glass window that has a cross, Star of David, an Aum, Buddhism wheel, Crescent moon and star, and a yin-yang. Also, that room has all sorts of artifacts from various religions. I think between that and the sorta catch-all concept of The Magical Light the creators are going for a general “having faith is good!” concept. The Christian imagery is of course the most predominant, and I don’t know what they’re saying about atheists, if anything, but I was happy to at least see other religions represented so it wasn’t just Jesus stuff. Although it does kinda parallel the rest of the series: Look! we’re diverse…but only to a point…then the focus is back on western Christian white males. Sadly, overall LOST still does a better job at diversity than most shows.

  8. Astraea
    May 25, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    My biggest disappointment with Lost (aside from the issues with women) is that there was A Big Bad Villain who was Undoubtedly Evil.

  9. May 25, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    I found the finale emotionally satisfying, but my engagement with Lost has always been primarily intellectual — I liked the mysteries and puzzles, and I wanted answers. For the first few seasons, I really believed that the writers had a coherent vision for what was happening on the island, and whether they did or not, we never actually got to see it.

    But hey, the sideways-verse never made a lick of sense as an alternate timeline caused by The Incident, so I guess it was better as purgatory?

    • May 25, 2010 at 2:37 pm

      What JP said. Down to the letter. No, it wasn’t about the characters. It was about the characters and mysteries. For me, it was probably a 60/40 or 55/45 split in favor of mysteries. (Though it depends on the character/mystery in question. I’d much rather that Sayid had a satisfying arc than learned anything to do with DHARMA or the statue or Walt.) And like JP also said, I’m annoyed at constantly being told that the show couldn’t have possibly provided satisfying answers — because a) if they couldn’t provide the answers, they shouldn’t have raised the questions as though they could, and b) they’ve proven in the past that they can provide answers in a way that is satisfying — or that if I actually wanted answers I just didn’t “get” what the show was all about. Actually, I’m pretty sure that I got it just fine. I’m pretty sure that they just pulled a bait and switch.

  10. Astraea
    May 25, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Ian, could we please go without calling people who didn’t love the finale or haven’t been 100% thrilled about the 6th season “haters?” It’s seriously annoying. I love LOST. I’ve been watching from the pilot, and I was defending the damn Temple and Ilana. But things took a turn for me and made it clear that a lot of things about LOST were just not my cup of tea, not to mention outright sexist. And yeah, parts of the finale confirmed things that I wasn’t happy with.

    But it’s hard enough to not be thrilled about a show I loved for 6 years without people claiming to be better fans and calling others haters.

    Isabel, I totally agree about the acting. What an amazing cast. I’m going to miss them.

    • May 25, 2010 at 2:41 pm

      Also what Astraea said! I’ve also been really annoyed about that, and it kind of broke my heart the other week when I read an interview with Damon and Carlton (linked in the last recap) where they basically treated the fans who were critical of recent developments as “haters” who wanted to hate it and wanted the show to fail. As someone who wanted nothing more than to believe that Damon and Carlton did know what the hell they were doing and that all would in fact be revealed, not to mention as someone who has invested so much time and energy into the show, that really hurt. It doesn’t feel a whole lot better coming from fellow fans.

  11. Astraea
    May 25, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    they’ve proven in the past that they can provide answers in a way that is satisfying

    Exactly. The biggest mystery of the first season, the hatch, was dealt with brilliantly and consistently for 6 seasons.

    The sideways was a problem because it felt like bad writing. Obviously now we know why, but I’m really frustrated that it threw me out of the suspension of disbelief and honestly ruined the last season for me.

  12. May 25, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Oh Jack. *smile*

    You know, even at the end, I totally didn’t see Flocke as pure evil or anything like that. Sure, he was a villain and a very self-aware one, but knowing everything I know about him at this point? I feel sad that he was placed in those circumstances to begin with.

    Remember when he tells Jack that it’s “just like old times”? It was as if a little spark of goodness flared up in him for a second, before going out again. Makes me wistful.

    (And Jack’s reply to that little line was still very much spot-on, of course)

  13. LC
    May 25, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    I’m with Cara on this, 100% Like any story, it is a mix. Maybe for some people it was 90/10 characters, sure. I think for most people a story like this is closer to 60/40 or 55/45. As Cara said, there are character arcs I cared about more and ones I cared about less. There were mysteries I cared about more and cared about less. But most important was that the mysteries informed the characters and how they paid off.

    But I do think most TV writers think of TV as soap operas where everything else is setting and so doesn’t matter. Only characters. Then they cover it up with the “hater” talk.

    Look, if they honestly thought their show was all about the characters and that was the only thing worth resolving, they wouldn’t have lied for years about having answers. They would have said that from the beginning. (Because that’s a perfectly valid way to do it.)

    As for answering the fertility and everything in DVD extras — besides the money-grab aspect of that, it just strikes me as more lazy writing. Look, I can stick in explanations for almost any of it, but what we wanted was for it to be important, mean something, and affect what was going on. (Well, those of us who thought the story of the island mattered at all.)

    I do agree with one thing. People who thought the show had clearly lost its way and become just all about Jack being cryface and the important white dude and were hoping for some way the show came back to a better mix were disappointed. Those who had long ago decided they liked it better as a series of unconnected events that let us see characters do things (with great acting and production values) had little problem with the end.

  14. May 25, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    As I discuss below, I was surprisingly pleased about the Sayid/Shannon reunion. I always thought that Nadia was the love of Sayid’s life, and would have assumed that he’d have rather been with her … but as far as things go, they pulled it off pretty well.

    One thing I remarked on at another forum was that amid all the talk about whether Nadia was the love of Sayid’s life, not many people ask if he was the love of hers. She loved him, and that’s great, but did getting together with him represent a positive change to her life, how she saw herself? I’d argue no; she knew her worth as a person, and seemed to have a pretty good life when we saw Locke briefly meet her during her Sayid-less years. But he did represent such a change for Shannon – being with someone who actually thought she deserved some respect gave her something she needed, and that Nadia didn’t seem to need. And that’s why it being Shannon at the end worked for me.

  15. Sheelzebub
    May 25, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    I loved the Sayid and Shannon reunion–then again, I liked them as a couple–at first grudgingly (because, I shamelessly admit, I’m in total lust over Naveen Andrews and hated the Shannon character)–then quite enthusiastically. They brought out the best in each other and were acquainted with the worst–or at least the pretty bad. I liked the fact that Sayid didn’t put up with Shannon’s shit but wasn’t a sexist douche about it–he just very quietly said something like “You know, Shannon, you’re actually a very capable person, you don’t need me to do this stuff for you.”

    I could see them good-naturedly bickering over what to get for their annual summer barbecue. I liked Nadia, but I guess I liked the Shannon connection because it showed Sayid, in a way, moving on, accepting his past (while not condoning it) and being with someone who was flawed and unidealized. And not being with her in a way where it was obvious he settled for second best.

    And I liked the fact that Shannon sort of blossomed with him. She did stuff for herself. She showed she was fluent in French. She did stuff for the other Losties–like watch Vincent (and wow, she was a bit obsessed about that).

  16. Astraea
    May 25, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    I think that it didn’t have to be someone’s One True Love that made them aware in the sideways, but that was kind of muddled because of what Desmond and Daniel said. I was actually happy that at least one couple was not Epic OTP, and was a little more normal. Others already said the same thing I was thinking, which was that Sayid needed Shannon because Nadia did not help him move on from what held him back. They were good for each other.

  17. Max Van
    May 25, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    Gee, maybe i’m cynical, but I think a big percentage of the reason for so few answers and for the, ahem, “Character driven’ focus towards the end is to put all the answers on ‘extras’ that can only be purchased with the ultra-deluxe Blu ray set that you know they’ll be shilling within moments. They’ve had the final season on pre-order at Amazon for 6 months already, so why not? It reminds me of professional wrestling- why give away a good match on free TV, when you can get people to pay for the match on Pay per view.

  18. LC
    May 25, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    It reminds me of professional wrestling- why give away a good match on free TV, when you can get people to pay for the match on Pay per view.


  19. Paul Escobar
    May 25, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    3 Questions:

    1) Am I right in assuming that people who died “on the island” are trapped “on the island” like Casper the friendly ghost? (thinking of Michael & Richard’s wife)

    2) If their souls are trapped on the island, then how did Sayid/Shannnon/Boone/Sun/Jin/Bernard/Rose show up in purgatory?
    They all died on/near the island (Shannon/Boone/Bernard/Rose died on the island, while Sayid/Sun/Jin died like Michael, offshore)

    3) Why was “Heaven” less appealing than purgatory?
    The implication was that once they crossed over into heaven, they’d lose what they currently have (friendships, loves, etc.).
    Like how Elouise feared losing her son Daniel…why would heaven want to sever that bond?

  20. May 25, 2010 at 7:24 pm

    Love it or hate it, the fact is that the finale is just that: final. It was a fitting end to a series that brought amazing characters to your living room and made you think about life, death, science, faith, and so much more for 6 years. What will you do now? You can’t get that from The Jersey Shore or The Hills. http://www.thesmogger.com/2010/05/24/and-in-the-end/

  21. May 25, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    I am going to miss the Feministe Lost posts. They have been humorous, entertaining, and thought-provoking. Time to cue Vincent.

  22. May 25, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    I think Michael and Ana Lucia and Ben and all will move on, once they resolve their issues. Michael, like you noted, said as much. I like to imagine that the Michael on the island whispering is one version of Michael. Another is in Sideways Land, and after Ana Lucia takes that bribe, she runs in to Michael. And they become friends and through this, forgiveness is achieved and they move on. Much how Ben was atoning by befriending Alex and Rousseau.

  23. May 25, 2010 at 10:23 pm

    A quick thought: I’m bothered the young sister and brother kidnapped by the Others are still on the island. Jacob putting these kids on a list has to be his highest douchebag moment.

  24. S.A. Small
    May 26, 2010 at 1:34 am

    My girlfriend astutely noted that all of the women in the church scene were paired off, unlike, say, Locke. So, to the last, the same sorts of issues with women and/or folk of color persist. Which is depressing, because there were few shows I was more religious about than LOST.

    I’m with everyone who had to process this episode. I ended up rewatching the last five or so minutes, and followed it up with the pre-finale recap and the Jimmy Kimmel (!) special. (Matthew Fox thinks that sideways world is purgatory: take that with a grain of salt.)

    The purgatory/dreaming explanation was heavy-handed at best, but the sideways stuff was pretty enjoyable up until that point. Maybe the writers’ mistake was trying to explain anything: I’m with Sady and Lauren that the character-based stuff was most effective (i.e., affecting).

    [Re: the missing stuff on the (not free with the price of cable) DVDs…sometimes people leave out important stuff for no understandable reason. (Ex: George Lucas left out the scene in Star Wars III where Nat Portman’s character FOUNDS THE F**KING REBEL ALLIANCE.) So, maybe it’s the motherlode or whatever.]

    Long story short, I was kinda mad right after but am more sanguine about it now.

  25. hated it
    May 26, 2010 at 1:56 am

    I hated this for a myriad reasons, but this comment section is the first I’ve run into people still wondering what happened to the kids (zak and emma). I think its pretty clear that they’re dead- they were either killed in the temple by smokey or by widmore’s bombs. It wasn’t explicitly shown, so you can hope they’ll have a shocking lapidusesque recovery, but I don’t think there’s much hope for them.

    also, why is it an asshole move for the others to take them? its not like they were torn apart from their family- in fact the got to live with a group of people that knew how not to suffer on the island.

  26. mia
    May 26, 2010 at 5:15 am

    EPIC FAIL. After 6 years of unbelievable intellectual debates and in depth banter with friends and family that lasted hours after the episodes, I for one feel cheated, led on, and completely shocked at what they gave us for an ending to this marvelous ride. After experiencing philosophy, psychology, sci-fi, fantasy, theology, pop-culture, heartwrenching and heartwarming drama for all these years, to let us down and bring it all to a close with some ‘white light’ and a very fast paced ‘touch and re-live six years of memories” in less than 10 seconds each character, was an insult and a shock! Where are OUR ANSWERS????!!!! I mean, c’mon? We already figured out they were all DEAD three seasons ago!!! Is that why we had to wait months and months in the middle of a season before the writers figured out what they were going to do-knowing that die hard fans already figured it out???? It could have been an EPIC ending to the most thought provoking, smart, brain bending and unbelievably creative treasure on TV in decades, but they obviously did NOT know where they were going and for them to not expect more out of us (their audience) is a huge let down of epic proportions. I feel completely BETRAYED. SHAME ON YOU LOST WRITERS!! SHAME ON YOU ABC!!!

  27. May 26, 2010 at 8:25 am

    My biggest disappointment with Lost (aside from the issues with women) is that there was A Big Bad Villain who was Undoubtedly Evil.

    The more I think about this, the more confused I get, but I think maybe I finally got it??? The thing that’s been bugging me is that Damon and Carlton have been saying since season 1 that there’s no such thing as a person who’s pure good or pure evil – that they give us the back stories of people that would traditionally be the “bad guys” in order to make them sympathetic. So when they had Flocke come out as pure evil, I was confused. When they gave us his back story and he wasn’t, in fact, pure evil, I was even more confused. But I guess the point is that MIB as Smokey is an evil entity, and that MIB himself was never pure evil. This would go with the theory I posed that week that perhaps Smokey was all the evil inside of MIB in this new form (which, admittedly, I sort of came up with on the fly but am more convinced of now).

    That said, I’m wondering how that ties into the smokiness that we saw in Claire and Sayid. I know I had a theory for that at some point, but I can’t remember it for the life of me…

    • May 26, 2010 at 10:08 am

      We already figured out they were all DEAD three seasons ago!!! Is that why we had to wait months and months in the middle of a season before the writers figured out what they were going to do-knowing that die hard fans already figured it out????

      Okay, I’m terribly confused.

  28. May 26, 2010 at 10:35 am

    The actor who played Eko actually expressed interest in returning for the finale, and the producers tried to cut a deal, but it was late enough that they did not arrive at a deal in time, which is unfortunate. Yeah, according to the actor who played Michael, he is still on the island, although, who is to say Hurley and Ben could not have changed the rule?

    I am unsure why some think Richard adjusting to the 21st century is such a big deal. He has left the island numerous times and seems more than used to the modern world and technology.

    It’s also interesting to me that I have seen a few Christians complain about the vague ending that they felt validated all religions as equal. :)

  29. May 26, 2010 at 10:48 am

    I to am confused, Cara. Apparently, the die hards kept that a secret, because I do not remember any theories that they were dead in the sideways world. Three seasons ago they were all alive…

    • May 26, 2010 at 11:41 am

      Well there was no sideways world three years ago. So that would be quite a theory, indeed! I remember lots of people thinking that they were all dead on the island (or in purgatory) during the first season, but … that’s not what ultimately happened.

      I’d heard that Eko wanted to come back, too, which is why I was REALLY disappointed that he wasn’t there. I hadn’t heard anything about them being unable to cut a deal, though. Any idea where you read that?

  30. Erica
    May 26, 2010 at 11:35 am

    I think the “we already figured out they were dead” thing comes from all those moments a few season back where characters (Locke’s father, for instance) insinuated that the island was hell and everyone was dead. Richard, too, suggested this, though I think he later said it was just a metaphor.

  31. Astraea
    May 26, 2010 at 11:36 am

    But I guess the point is that MIB as Smokey is an evil entity, and that MIB himself was never pure evil. This would go with the theory I posed that week that perhaps Smokey was all the evil inside of MIB in this new form (which, admittedly, I sort of came up with on the fly but am more convinced of now).

    Yeah, that makes sense but it still annoys me, lol. It feels like the wanted it both ways.

    I am unsure why some think Richard adjusting to the 21st century is such a big deal. He has left the island numerous times and seems more than used to the modern world and technology.

    Yeah, it might take some adjustment to get used to the regular world but he seemed to be well adjusted to the present day. Nestor told his fans during a Q&A that he and Ken Leung decided that Miles would help him out off the island.

  32. Astraea
    May 26, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    According to E!Online the actor who played Eko wanted more money for the appearance than they were willing to pay.


    I don’t think he wanted to go back to the show.

  33. May 26, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    also, why is it an asshole move for the others to take them? its not like they were torn apart from their family- in fact the got to live with a group of people that knew how not to suffer on the island.

    Zak and Emma told Ana Lucia their mother was waiting for them at LAX. The Others took the kids because Jacob put them on the list. Remember the list Ana Lucia found and Mr. Friendly scolding Ethan for not getting all the people on list. The lists was made by Jacob because they contained first and last names of Oceanic 815 passengers. It is unlikely the Others would know that the first night of the crash.

    I can’t speak for everyone else, but I wouldn’t want (pre-redemption) Ben, Mr. Friendly and Patchy raising my kids. The Others raised Ethan and look how that turned out. Ethan tried to kill Charlie and was going to kill Claire, in order to take her baby.

    Jacob recruited people who were weak and flawed. The result was a cult of scared and violent people. Jacob brought the Dharma people and Others on the island and the result was a war he never lifted a finger to stop. (Remember, Ben said most of the Others weren’t born on the island.) Cindy, the Oceanic stewardess, became an Other, and was willing to help the Temple Others kill the Losties. What saved the Losties was Hurley having Jacob’s ankh.

    The Others are nothing more than a violent cult/militia. When Oceanic 815 crashed the Others first thought wasn’t to help the survivors. The Others wanted to know who Jacob wanted kidnapped. They provided no aid and killed two of the survivors (Goodwyn and Ethan each killed one.) So, I ask: would you want these people raising children? Seriously.

  34. JP
    May 26, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Bahahaa! College Humor did a fantastic job of summing up all of the remaining questions that were NEVER SOLVED in lieu of “character development.”

  35. May 26, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    @Sady- I don’t believe it was that Ana-Lucia, Eko, etc didn’t make it into the afterlife… they just didn’t do so with the LOST group. The most important parts of their lives were not spent with the LOST people, but with their own families, etc. It wasn’t because they weren’t “good enough”.

    As for Ben getting in, I don’t think he turned down the invite just because he could and was doing so great but because he couldn’t get in yet. He still had to make amends with all those he’d done wrong. And maybe he never did get to enter, because time did not matter in the church and some got in years after others.

    Great points about the baby thing though!

    @Cara- Smokey wanted to leave the island so bad because he was formerly Jacob’s brother- and remember how the brother wanted to get off the island so bad? He didn’t buy into their mother’s saying there was nothing beyond the island and from early on he wanted to get off the island to see the world.

    And maybe pregnant women die on the island because there’s a phallus-thing blocking the vagina-thing at the heart of the island? :)

  36. norbizness
    May 26, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    That pretty much puts the nail in the coffin of my ever watching Season 6.

  37. Anony Mouse
    May 26, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    I don’t think any work of fiction should definitively assert that God exists and thereby effectively make God a character; it’s deus ex machina, it’s a solution that’s too big and too easy to make for a compelling story. . . I think you should always have an alternate explanation for that power’s “actions” within the story so as to leave some mystery in the picture. Otherwise, it’s just a hubristic and cheesy move.

    Damn, Milton just got told.

  38. May 27, 2010 at 6:11 am

    I remember lots of people thinking that they were all dead on the island (or in purgatory) during the first season, but … that’s not what ultimately happened.

    But a large number of people are inexplicably convinced that it was.

  39. June 2, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    Super late to this thread, but in response to comment #1 Sayyid is not “Islamic.” Things are Islamic, people are Muslim.

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