I’ve got mixed feelings about Slate’s advice columnist Emily Yoffe who writes under the pseudonym Dear Prudence. The second letter in her column this week reminds me why.
First the letter:
I am a female law student who is employed for the summer (and potentially for the school year) at a small firm that I’m really enjoying. The law office shares a floor of an office building with a bigger law firm, and my cubicle is “on the border.” All of the attorneys at both firms are male, but at the other firm, the men are far from politically correct. I have two issues: First, one of the attorneys, “Jerry,” often makes comments to me about my appearance. These range from annoying but harmless (“Nice tan”) to creepy (“I like that skirt,” in a lecherous tone). I have tried to ignore him or subtly indicate his comments aren’t welcome, but neither approach has worked. I’m tempted to speak to one of my firm’s partners, but I fear it would make me look like a little girl running to a man to fight my battles. I’m also considering documenting all his comments until I have enough for a sexual harassment suit so I can make his firm pay for the legal education I used to nail it. Second, I overhear a lot of conversations I find highly offensive. The men are fond of using homosexuality-based insults, calling one another or opponents “fag” and “homo.” The work environment is becoming so unpleasant that I wonder how long I can stand it. What should I do?
—Livid but Lost Law Student
Well, it certainly sound like the sort of place that might having you looking for employment discrimination as a third year elective and the kind of firm you may want to reject an offer from, but let’s hear from Prudie.
Dear Livid,
I hope you don’t view your law degree as a carte blanche to take to court everyone who makes you uncomfortable. If you tell a judge that getting the compliment “I like that skirt” made you unable to discharge your own legal duties, the conclusion may be that you need to find another line of work, not that the firm of Blowhard, Homophobe & Creep owes you a tuition check. The law firm you’re working for likely won’t be impressed with your enterprising spirit if they find out you’ve filed suit against the guys next door. Let’s deal with Jerry. As you’ve discovered, being subtle isn’t working. I assume your legal education is teaching you to state your position plainly, so do so. Next time Jerry comes over, tell him, “Jerry, I’d appreciate it if you would cease remarking on my appearance. I find your comments disruptive and your tone hostile. I hope you understand what I’m saying and that I won’t have to say it again. Thanks.” Only if he escalates should you take it to one of your partners, explaining that you’ve tried to deal with him yourself. As for the frat boys next door—get a sound-blocking headset if you must. Yes, their comments are repugnant, but you don’t want to be the Carrie Nation of your floor. Let’s hope this is resolved one day when a client of the firm who doesn’t share their sensibilities overhears the office banter.
—Prudie
Where to even begin? One’s law degree isn’t carte blanche to sue everyone who bothers you, but it’s certainly a professional license which entitles you to sue someone who’s violating the law*. A hostile work environment (and let’s be clear here: it’s hostile) is actionable in the U.S. Second, sexual harassment is not a compliment. Jerry’s not leering at her because he’s trying to pay her a compliment: he’s trying to demean her, undercut her, intimidate her, and make himself feel superior. Having someone in your workplace who makes you that uncomfortable could certainly make it very difficult to accomplish your work. Prudie’s response suggests that Livid just needs to suck it up and get thicker skin. There’s no mention of the idea the person whose behavior and reactions need to change is Jerry.
I do agree that Livid should put it all on the line once and tell Jerry in no uncertain terms that his commentary is unwelcome, but I suspect his only response is going to be “Why do you have to take this so seriously? It was just a compliment. Can’t you take a compliment?” (Read: Why are you such a uptight bitch who refuses to understand that I am perfectly within my rights to tell you how you should and should not respond to my banality?) Taking it to the partners is definitely the next step, if for no other reason that if Livid wants to sue them successfully, she’ll probably need to demonstrate that she went to her bosses and/or HR and raised a complaint and they failed to act on it or adequately address the issue.
It’s not 100% clear to me, but it seems as though Jerry and the homophobia are coming from the firm with whom Livid shares a floor in an office building, not her own employer. If that’s the case, I think it’s even more important to raise the issue with the partners, one of which has absolutely nothing to do with sexual harassment: client confidentiality. If Livid’s able to hear homophobic banter, I can’t imagine what else she might overhear. This is something the other firm should be aware of, even if their staff is made up of a bunch of people who have no objection to loudly voicing bigoted remarks. And I would think that her own firm would want to be aware of the fact that the other people on the office floor are creating a huge headache (not to mention potentially litigious situation) for them. Assuming Livid likes her own employer, she really ought to give them a shot to resolve this situation. If they won’t, then it’s probably time to head back to the career services office.
And finally, Carrie Nation? Carrie Nation!? Comparing a woman who has a perfectly legitimate gripe about her workplace with a woman who charged around Kansas destroying bars with a hatchet? Seriously? Next time, you might just come right out and call Livid irrational and hysterical.
*To be fair, the likelihood of a successful lawsuit that would enable Livid to finance her higher education is pretty small.
Thankyou for this. I get tired of having to *convince* people to stop making sexist and/or sexual comments toward me. It’s just one more symptom of patriarchy.
I’ve been in situations before where one wonders if being a whistleblower was reallly worth the grief and hassle. Sometimes you can’t fight City Hall. But certainly whatever proceeds from this point forward is this law student’s prerogative.
I agree with you completely. Also, I have experience to suggest that sometimes, saying “That’s making me uncomfortable, what you’re doing there, and I’d like you to stop” is plenty to get the person to stop. Sometimes, repulsive though they may be, people really will change their behavior once it’s pointed out. I’ve seen it happen.
While Prudie’s response was off the mark in suggesting that Livid was simply an opportunistic jerk, she did suggest, as you immediately pointed out in the very next paragraph, that she confront the man’s repugnant behavior directly before taking it to the court system.
It’s also unwise to assume that all men who make comments that make women feel uncomfortable are doing so to “trying to demean her, undercut her, intimidate her, and make himself feel superior.” Sometimes, in fact, oftentimes, they don’t realize that what they’re saying or doing is not a compliment and, as Serene suggested above, will cease the harassing behavior once the feelings of discomfort that it causes is made known to the person perpetuating it.
Obviously, though, if it doesn’t stop, taking it to the firm’s partners and.or legal action is certainly warranted.
One of my BIGGEST pet peeves is when I voice a valid concern and people respond with, “Whoa, calm down!” (aka don’t be the “Carrie Nation of your floor”). Blargh. What kind of advice is that? What kind of advice is that whole thing, actually?
It’s also unwise to assume that all men who make comments that make women feel uncomfortable are doing so to “trying to demean her, undercut her, intimidate her, and make himself feel superior.” Sometimes, in fact, oftentimes, they don’t realize that what they’re saying or doing is not a compliment and, as Serene suggested above, will cease the harassing behavior once the feelings of discomfort that it causes is made known to the person perpetuating it.
Well, I’m just making that assumption about Jerry. And judging from the letter, I’m inclined to think that’s exactly Jerry’s intent. He’s been unresponsive to being ignored and subtlety. He’s clearly pushing the envelope and if he’s not aware of it, well, he will be shortly. He’s already gotten the benefit of the doubt and hasn’t been dissuaded.
And while there’s a subset of people who don’t realize they’re making others uncomfortable unless told point blank, they’re a much smaller group than those who are trying to be jackasses and/or pushing other people’s boundaries. It also gets mighty tiresome when the jackasses try to pretend they just didn’t know any better. (This usually takes the form of “Jeez, it was supposed to be a compliment, damn feminazis, grumble grumble.”)
Well, that’s the thing though, is that he’s being occasionally ignored or having hints thrown at him, instead of being firmly and definitively communicated with. Some people need to be communicated with directly, not subtly, and don’t read hints well.
It sounds like I’m defending this turd. I’m not really trying to, and maybe we disagree about this less than I thought. But I do think the tone of the post implies an assumption that all men whose behavior causes discomfort in a woman is doing so intentionally, and with malicious intent, and fails to acknowledge a line between “clueless and annoying” and “scary and dangerous.” And I think that assumption, which is made often, is really unproductive and damaging.
Have you read Schrodinger’s Rapist? Yeah, it’s not fair that some women assume all men are intentional assholes, but that’s not really the women’s problem so much as a problem of patriarchy. Hey, beating down patriarchy helps men…go figure.
@konkonsn: I have read that post. What I’m arguing against, though, is not hurting men’s poor feelings, but the assumption can lead to dangerous things, such as harmless or innocently clueless men potentially being sent to prison or having to pay great deals of money for something that could easily be resolved with a more direct objection. The automatic assumption can, and does, create serious problems for men who are victims of the same patriarchy. That’s a problem with confusing the overarching structure of the system with the individual model after it. It would be like saying it is understandable, and even safe, to treat all Catholic priests as potential pedophiles because so many of the child molesters in religious organizations are Catholic priests.
I mean, yes, beating down the patriarchy helps men, too. It absolutely does. But we don’t need to make the process of beating down the patriarchy and going toward an egalitarian society more painful for any particular group of people. It’s useless, and smacks of juvenile revenge rather than equality and accountability.
If Gerry is Clueless Het Guy, he’ll stop when Livid tells him NO.
Clueless Het Guy can be – frequently is – a creepy, annoying, arrogant git, filled to the brim with male privilege.
Clueless Het Guy genuinely does not hear anything except a firm, definite, clear NO.
For Clueless Het Guy, what he wants is what you want. He likes it, so you must like it. He isn’t scared or offended by the things he’s saying to you, so how can you find them scary or offensive?
What distinguishes Clueless Het Guy from Scary Het Guy is that Clueless Het Guy does stop when he hears NO – and doesn’t act up or take revenge for the NO.
If I’d been Prudence, I’d have told Livid “Tell Jerry NO. Document that you have done so. Tell the homophobic gits that you can overhear them talking in the corridors and this could be a serious problem with client confidentiality. Document that you have done so. Tell your employer that you were being sexually harassed by a guy in the other firm, and you told him NO and here’s the notes you made: that you can overhear frat guys from the other firm talking in the corridors, you warned them that you could hear them, here’s your notes.”
Keep copies.
Done right, it puts the employer on your side, and at least, there’s a record of Jerry’s ugly behavior next time he tries it on with another young woman.
(I have no idea if Clueless Het Guy can be re-educated: that’s not the point. The point is Clueless Het Guy can be stopped.)
Let’s deal with Jerry. As you’ve discovered, being subtle isn’t working. I assume your legal education is teaching you to state your position plainly, so do so. Next time Jerry comes over, tell him, “Jerry, I’d appreciate it if you would cease remarking on my appearance. I find your comments disruptive and your tone hostile. I hope you understand what I’m saying and that I won’t have to say it again. Thanks.”
This part of the advice is good. If someone’s bothering you, don’t SUBTLY INDICATE you don’t like it. Don’t make little oblique hints that something somewhere is somewhat off. Just come out and say “YOU’RE BEING A DICK, JERRY. QUIT IT.”
but the assumption can lead to dangerous things, such as harmless or innocently clueless men potentially being sent to prison or having to pay great deals of money for something that could easily be resolved with a more direct objection…The automatic assumption can, and does, create serious problems for men who are victims of the same patriarchy.
Um, what? Strawmen much? Would you like to highlight a single instance of such persecutions of innocent hyper-complimentary men, ever? And how do understand such men to be “victims of the same patriarchy?” You’re assuming that this woman can’t identify a lecherous tone and, yes, is some type of hysteric. I don’t find this assumption to be terribly appropriate to a feminist space.
Okay, let’s at least acknowledge that pulling out the “You’re being a dick, Jerry. Quit it,” card can be really difficult, especially for a summer intern who works for another firm (and who, like pretty much all other women has been socialized to be non-confrontational and polite). I’m sure she’s right about the situation, but that doesn’t make it easy to speak up forcefully. (And, like evil fizz, I think it’s pretty likely that his response would be along the lines of “Jeez, can’t you take a compliment, you little bitch?”)
I have mixed feelings about this advice. I think it’s highly inappropriate that Prudie starts and ends her response with something along the lines of “calm down, cheer up”. On the other hand, it is true that a succcessful lawsuit is unlikely, aqnd telling Jerry firmly to stop or going to her employer is a better course of action for Livid. Not because she’s whining, but because a court case is expensive and unlikely to be won. That may be my European bias, where we hardly sue unless all other options have been exhausted, though. (I’m not sure how easily people really sue in the U.S., but my bias tells me they sue a lot easier than in Europe.)
O_o. I must have missed the spate of jailings and huge lawsuit judgements (or even minor lawsuit judgements) against men who have made seemingly-innocent remarks to women with a leer.
Can we please just drop the scare scenarios and strawfeminists already? FFS.
I’ve been in Livid’s situation. Responses from the offending party and bystanders have ranged from “Jeez, you humorless, uptight PC bitch, chill out,” escalation, or excuses. Or other, more sublte attempts as a follow up. Or explainations about how they didn’t mean it that way and no efforts to change it. And bystanders–and higher ups–who shrugged it off and sided with them and told me not to be such a bitch and to just relax.
And men who whine that it’s PC feminist meaniebutts who make it verbotten for them to compliment someone overlook two things: 1) they don’t, as a matter of course, compliment other dudes on how they look, and 2) if it weren’t for the assholes who leered and acted inappropriately, no one would think twice about an innocent (not leering) “I like your skirt.”
Mm, Clueless Het Guy does exist. I’ve met him, and successfully redirected him. In a science fiction club that I was the president of in college, a guy said something about me or my clothes (I forget what) which could be taken as a compliment or as harassment, and a female friend of mine pointed out in a joking-on-the-square tone that that could be interpreted as harassment. So I made a big production of complimenting the guy on his sweater in a very public, very meta-commentary way, and then turned to my friend and said (again, publicly), “See, now it’s equal.” The guy never made a comment about my looks again.
However, some important distinctions to make here:
- In this case, Clueless Het Guy was a college student, not an adult man in the professional work force.
- Clueless Het Guy had less power in the science fiction club than I did. I was the president of the club at the time.
- Clueless Het Guy was slightly introverted and didn’t talk much in the club.
- My friend, who was an out lesbian, took on the role of criticizing Clueless Het Guy for his behavior, and did so in public. She wasn’t at all concerned with what men thought of her, and she was acting in the defense of a woman who was the highest-ranking officer in the club, so she had a *very* strong position.
- At the time I felt very strongly that Clueless Het Guy really was trying to compliment me, so I was trying to be kind to him, while at the same time making it clear that I *would* make a public joke out of people publicly commenting on my looks.
Livid does not have my power in the situation, she doesn’t have a friend backing her up, she isn’t dealing with a shy college student who’s younger than her, and, for that matter, the fact that Jerry is not a shy college student in a science fiction club but an adult man in the professional workforce strongly suggests that he *doesn’t* mean it as a genuine compliment.
I think it’s safe to say that in most cases, women *can* tell the difference between a genuine compliment and harassment. Perception may play into their ability to gauge the difference (I wouldn’t be at all surprised if genuine compliments from men the woman finds unattractive are rated as creepier than genuine compliments from attractive men, and I also strongly suspect that a genuine compliment from a man with autism or Asperger’s will be perceived as creepy and harassing because a lot of the subtle social cues men send to convey that they really do mean a compliment are difficult for people with autism or Asperger’s to send), but I think that, in general, if a woman reports that an able-bodied, neurotypical man’s “compliments” are harassment, she’s telling the truth. We’re *so* socialized to perceive male attention to our “attractiveness” as positive that I think men almost need to *actively* send social signals saying “I’m putting you down, you dumb bitch” before the average woman will perceive it as harassment.
So while yes, it’s true that it’s possible for a miscommunication to exist — particularly if there’s a privilege axis that empowers the woman, such as the man being a person of color when she’s white, or disabled or non-neurotypical when she is abled and NT — it’s like the “false reports of rape” mythical specter. On the very rare occasions when it happens, sure it’s bad for the innocent men involved, but it’s much much more common for the error to go in the other direction — for the woman to be excoriated for attacking an “innocent” man who has in fact intentionally harmed her.
I think that in most cases, a man is entirely safe in complimenting a woman if a. he genuinely means it as a compliment and b. he waits until he knows her well and is on friendly terms with her. The fact that even men who want to genuinely compliment a woman insist on doing so to women they don’t know at all reflects clueless privilege — “My opinion is so important I have to impose it on total strangers!” — and also reflects how they would feel about it (the construction of the “male gaze” as the only important signifier of beauty means that men never get to be gazed at, and I see plenty of evidence that they are starved for it — but it’s very dangerous for women to openly gaze at men and compliment them, because of the large number of men who would take that as a declaration that she wants sex with them or is clearly madly in love with them. Men who would *not* assume that a woman who compliments them wants to marry them mostly have no idea that there are so many men who would assume this, and thus can’t comprehend why it is that women who feel that a man is attractive wouldn’t dare tell him so unless they knew him well.) So I think it’s actually very, very easy for a man to avoid accidentally harassing women when he meant to genuinely compliment them. But, of course, men who meant to harass women all pretend they meant to compliment them, and we as a culture tend to take men’s words over women’s.
but the assumption can lead to dangerous things, such as harmless or innocently clueless men potentially being sent to prison or having to pay great deals of money for something that could easily be resolved with a more direct objection. The automatic assumption can, and does, create serious problems for men who are victims of the same patriarchy.
Wait, who’s being incarcerated? This is strictly a civil lawsuit, there’s no criminal element to it. The only time I can imagine the police being involved is if the harassment escalated to assault. And if assault is what we’re talking about, being clueless isn’t a pass.
And who’s having large monetary judgments levied against them? The law actually takes into account the clueless dude and essentially requires that lesser measures be taken first. I mentioned this in my original post: to have a successful lawsuit, Livid would most likely need to raise the issue and have her supervisors ignore it or fail to adequately address it. If anyone gets a huge judgment levied against them, it’s probably going to be the employer, not hapless clueless dude.
I was sexually harrassed, I wasn’t touched or hurt, but it was very awkward and wierd. You can read about my experience in my blog: Witchy Feminist-http://witchyfeminist.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/sexual-harassment/
Again it was really weird, I wrote this post to tell others that I am not afraid to speak up about it. It hurts too many people.
I think the point about client confidentiality is a very important one, and one that she should bring up with her employers. It sounds very professional (yes, I know it’s extremely awful that “Hey, he’s harassing me and they’re homophobes!” does NOT sound as professional, ugh), and it’s something the firm can use to get the other office to tone down if need be.
They will use any method to control us and in clever ways make us out to be the bad instead of the wronged party.
Sexual harassment can be so subtle, such an integrated part of current society.
I’ve experienced both Clueless Het Guy complimenting me in ways that weren’t really appropriate for work, and actual sexual harassment. Clueless Het Guy made me feel uncomfortable sometimes, but he never made me feel harassed. His words were midly inappropriate for work but there was no lecherous tone, no leer, no appraising looks. When you’re being harassed, you know. If Livid feels like she’s being harassed, she very likely is.
I wonder if she would advise someone to keep their mouth shut about racial harassment, or about a company violating the ADA, lest they be perceived as troublemakers.
Or is it just when it’s women being treated differently that we should keep quiet and go along with it?
I believe it’s possible that the guy in question isn’t consciously harassing the woman, but whether it’s conscious or not, he is very likely treating her differently because of her gender. I doubt that he compliments men on their clothing or their bodies on a regular basis; but he is conditioned to think of women as open to public comment.
Personally, I am almost always uncomfortable with people commenting on my appearance, but particularly at work; and I fail to see why I’m supposed to stop what I’m doing to listen to some random person’s opinions on what I look like. At best, I don’t care, and you just slowed my flow to interject something pointless; and at worst, you’re objectifying me and telling me that I’m just here for your amusement. I’m not flattered. I am flattered when someone tells me, truthfully, that I do something well, and focusing on my physical characteristics detracts from that, if anything.
And beyond that, it’s just plain uncomfortable to work in an environment where you are always conscious of people staring at you.
Just come out and say “YOU’RE BEING A DICK, JERRY. QUIT IT.”
You know, I kind of wonder about this strategy, especially when the harassment is over time and it’s cumulative, not that any one moment is horrendously egregious. I think a lot of women are sensitive to feeling like their response will automatically be treated as overreacting, and so this kind of approach has its own drawbacks. That doesn’t mean I don’t think it’s worth trying, but it’s not without limitations.
I wonder if she would advise someone to keep their mouth shut about racial harassment, or about a company violating the ADA, lest they be perceived as troublemakers.
Or is it just when it’s women being treated differently that we should keep quiet and go along with it?
Pretty sure there are *lots* of people who don’t ask for accommodations – which are part of the ADA, natch – because everyone will be all ragh at them for ONOES SPESHUL TREATMENT. Bootstraps and all that.
Regarding coming out and telling people to stop harassing you, does anyone else find this easier said than done? Like, I would love to be brave enough to tell someone to stop bothering me, but sometimes I’m genuinely terrified of how they’re going to react. And this is without any anxiety, at that.
My harassment doesn’t occur at work (blessedly), but on the transportation system on the way there. I’m honestly terrified of how these people would react if I told them to please stop approaching me because they make me uncomfortable. I imagine that there’s an element of coercion to workplace harassment as well, such that for some people experiencing it, they won’t feel comfortable being blunt because of the fear of repercussions. These could be job related, or they could be violence related.
Pretty sure there are *lots* of people who don’t ask for accommodations – which are part of the ADA, natch – because everyone will be all ragh at them for ONOES SPESHUL TREATMENT. Bootstraps and all that.
I can ratify that. My husband, who is legally blind, and is usually brought in as a highly paid IT consultant, needs a large monitor to see with. You would be amazed how many places are cool with the idea of letting a guy they are paying more than $50/hr work three times slower than he normally would because they won’t shell out for a $500 monitor (which, nowadays, is actually more like a $200 monitor), which, if you do the math, pays for itself in increased productivity after he’s worked for about four hours, and rather than bang the HELLO I’M LEGALLY BLIND GIVE ME MY GODDAMN LARGE MONITOR drum, he generally just sucks it up until the eyestrain gets bad enough that he brings in his own monitor from home. Because supremely competent developer/technical architect != disabled person, don’t ya know. Why, disabled people only get jobs because of affirmative action! They cannot possibly be a person who is actually incredibly good at his job and worth a great deal of money provided you actually give him a monitor large enough to read what he’s doing! Only abled people could be worth money!
I don’t know how many disabled people who are damn good at their jobs run into this attitude that if they ask for the accommodations they are legally entitled to, it is proof that they are not in fact damn good at their jobs and they don’t deserve their pay level… but I bet it’s a lot.
In fact, while as an able-bodied woman I have always felt very confident in throwing my weight around to demand the minimal accommodations I need, because I tend to think that any able-bodied human would need them (like, uh, not having THE SUN GLARING DOWN THROUGH A SKYLIGHT ON YOUR MONITOR FOR FOUR HOURS A DAY), if I were disabled I think I might feel more comfortable demanding that a sexual harassment situation be addressed than asking for the accommodations I deserve, because I feel like, being a woman who insists on being treated with respect just gets you a reputation as a humorless ball-busting bitch, and I can live with that. But being a disabled person who insists on getting the accommodations you are legally entitled to and which are your absolute moral right seems to make people start treating you like actually, you’re not as competent as you are. And I’d rather be seen as a bitch than as incompetent… even though *either* perception is totally goddamn unfair.
I wonder if she would advise someone to keep their mouth shut about racial harassment, or about a company violating the ADA, lest they be perceived as troublemakers.
Or is it just when it’s women being treated differently that we should keep quiet and go along with it?
Prudence is not exactly known for her well-reasoned advice, so it’s hard to say, but invoking the specter of harassment or legal violations with one’s employer is usually going to be dicey. I think the only substantive difference is going to be how the person raising the complaint is vilified. “Jeez, I don’t understand why you have to be the feminazi bitch,” can just as easily be rescripted to “Jeez, why do you have to be entitled to special treatment. None of the rest of us do that. We do it for ourselves,” or a series of derogatory invocations of Al Sharpton and anger for a complaint of racial discrimination.
In other words, I don’t think the oppression olympics is giving out any medals to anyone. We’re all stuck between a rock and a hard place.
In my last job, there was a man, I’ll call him M. M would always go around being touchy with all the women in the office. One day while we were all getting ready for a meeting, M came in and touched both knees of every woman sitting in the row. They all rolled their eyes (their usual response to M’s groping). I simply said “Don’t touch me. I don’t like it.”
He started with the backpedaling – I think his actual response was “I just needed to count everyone.” I said “You can do that without touching. You weren’t touching the guys to count them.”
Guess what – he never touched me again.
Even during a big farewell thing when a bunch of us were losing our jobs, he asked if he could hug me. I said no, and he respected that.
He was a prat. The other women continued to let him touch them (then complain about it later). However, once I gave him my boundaries, he respected them.
Not all creepers will stop – but a clear declaration is the best first step.
PrettyAmiable: Regarding coming out and telling people to stop harassing you, does anyone else find this easier said than done? Like, I would love to be brave enough to tell someone to stop bothering me, but sometimes I’m genuinely terrified of how they’re going to react. And this is without any anxiety, at that.
Oh yeah. Telling people to stop harassing me is terrifying. It’s terrifying no matter how many times I do it. It becomes additionally scary when I have good reason to believe they might react badly and I will have no defense.
But the more often I do screw my courage up to the point and do say, Stop, the more often I know it was worth doing. There is a whole essay to be made on no, there is often no immediate reward, yes, complaining will frequently just make me feel worse in the immediate aftereffects, yes, complaining at work has its own hazards: but all-in-all, long-term, I feel better about myself as a person for having done it. And, once in a while, now and again, you can actually see that your complaint was a positive source of change. (Mostly, I just hope my complaint was part of the trickle-down factor, or at least got my immediate situation changed.)
The partners know homophobic slurs are being thrown around…if they wanted to do something…they’d do it. But you can’t imagine in a small firm on one floor that the Partners would miss what is going on.
But here’s a question…
What is the fastest way for a female associate (to be) to derail her Big Law career? Is it:
(a) complaining to HR (which means the partners) about sexual harassment;
(b) being confrontational about sexual harassment with the person harassing you; or
(c) screaming at your assistant for 20 minutes a day.
Answer: Trick question, both a & b will get you downsized with the next economic wave while c is part of the job.
All of the above sarcasm is to illustrate that she is between a rock and a very hard, likely heavily in debt place. I’ve been there and done all that. Suing will likely get her black balled even from small firms. So unless she’s willing to leave the field (or put out a shingle) she’s going to have to create some coping mechanisms
(I’m fond of making fun of men for giving me compliments…takes the wind right out of them. Also, “grow up” is my favorite chastisement when I hear people make homophobic remarks. It doesn’t usually happen again.)
None of this is fair. Its not right. If I have any power to change it going forward, I definitely will.
But this is today…and law is (for all the women still going in to it) a male dominated field. Many firms, even small ones, will not play ball with women that directly stand up for themselves or even others really.
And when you have six figures in debt hanging over your head…sometimes you have to make the best choices you can at the time.
Which isn’t to say that there is nothing you can do…its just that in order to stay in the industry you have to deal with it on an interpersonal level.
So, yeah, when I’ve spoken with other female attorneys about this shit (and god knows it comes up at least once a week) the answer we inevitably come to is that you either toughen up, define (and guard) your personal space (which may still get you fired), or you prepare your resume for another career.
Maybe if enough of women survive to partnership things will be different for the next generation…but that’s hard to see given that almost all the women I’ve known since law school have thrown in the law firm towel.
When I was harrassed at one point I had no idea what was going on! And then suddenly it hit me. I think a lot of woman don’t know until it’s too late.
Is it illegal to carry a voice recorder for this? In my experience, I lost an anti-harrasment claim against a supervisor who harrased and then physically (not sexually) assulted me – which came after me telling him to leave me alone. He had some domination complex because I was female.
I lost because they said it needed to be a “repeated offense”, and because I didn’t have any other proof of previous incidents, they couldn’t do anything about it other than the judge giving him a warning.
I was younger and much more naive then, and I’ve since learned to always, always, always speak up.
Instead of the sound-blocking headset she’s advised to get, I’d advise a sound-gathering device. Geesh.
“Is it illegal to carry a voice recorder for this? ”
It definitely is in some states, definitely not in others.
“Just come out and say “YOU’RE BEING A DICK, JERRY. QUIT IT.”
Maybe using a sexual refernce is not the most effective way to repsond to sexual harrassment. Why hand the asshole a weapon when he is so clearly in the wrong?
I know that this isn’t the case with Prudence, but theres something to be said for not reporting sometimes. I’m disabled, I have been my entire life, and I’ve fought for my rights. That said, when I’m talking to someone about advocating for themselves I always ask the same question first “are you will to take the heat that comes from standing up?” I hate to have to ask that question, but when you’re talking about oppression one of the things you have to think about is the amount of energy the oppressed person has to devote to advocacy.
When I was in high school a decade or so ago I found myself needing accommodations because of a disability. I was in a public magnet school which had received awards for its “Special Ed” programs. By the time the dust settled I’d fought for three and a half years, spent a lot of money, developed digestive problems, hired a lawyer, and been a constant target of both school administrators and some students. I lived through it because I had to, but there were certainly days during which I wondered if I shouldn’t have just kept my mouth shut and kept my head down.
Its easy to say “oh you should just tell them to stop being an asshole” but even being able to make that comment comes from a position of relative privilege.