Wait, and it’s feminists who hate men?

Wow Liz Jones, you are something. I am sorry that your marriage ended and that your husband cheated on you, but uh, just because you have a particular experience doesn’t mean that your life speaks to some sort of universal truth. As an example, I don’t really like donuts all that much. I like basically every food, so it’s not that I hate donuts, but they’re low on my list. So clearly, women just don’t like donuts. We just have better things to eat. Right?

I don’t believe women are like characters in Sex And The City. We don’t shout and writhe and pursue sex as heartily and relentlessly as men do. It does not occupy our every waking moment.

The truth is: we don’t really enjoy sex that much. And we definitely don’t want sex as often as men do. That is a cold, hard fact. And women most definitely, incontrovertibly, do not want sex once they have children — or so my friends who have children confess to me. Particularly once their stomachs develop a texture akin to cold porridge.

The only reason we do have sex is to get a man, keep a man, steal his sperm and flatter ourselves that we are attractive.

Once we have a man, his children, his name on a piece of paper, his youth and his house, we no longer want to indulge in that ridiculous, time-consuming, horizontal dance.

…which is why lesbians just cuddle, and hetero women never have more than one child.

The story, basically, is that Jones married a lout who cheated on her a bunch of times. She wasn’t interested in sex and stopped having sex with him (which does not give someone carte blanche to cheat, obviously, because come on). But she apparently never really liked sex that much, and didn’t disclose that at any point, because she was trying to “steal his sperm” to have babies and make sure she lived in a nice house. He started cheating on her basically from the beginning of their relationship, because he is terrible. He admitted sleeping with a sex worker before they met, which she found “refreshing.” And when they finally got divorced, she felt sorry that she hadn’t just looked the other way when it came to his indiscretions. (Instead of, you know, talking about it and working out a plan if they wanted to stay together but he wanted to have sex with other people).

Jones talks about how she would scream at her husband for watching porn, and how he cheated on her repeatedly but her biggest regret is that she wasn’t “forgiving” enough. So: She hates sex (because she is a woman and all women hate sex), but believes that men have to have sex constantly, so when her husband cheats on her (with all kinds of other women who also hate sex?) it’s not really his fault. And now their marriage is over and it’s because she wasn’t forgiving enough — not because she married someone who she didn’t want to have sex with and who is also a cheating bastard and ran around behind her back over and over again.

Which is sad, but what?

For a lot of people, sex is important (I am one of those people, actually). For people who feel that sex is necessary for a happy life and for whom sex is nearly as necessary as eating or breathing, sexless relationships can feel like torture or emotional manipulation. It can be incredibly heartbreaking to feel like the person you love, who is supposed to be your lover, isn’t sexually interested in you anymore. For some people in relationships, withholding sex (or demanding sex) is emotional manipulation. If you know your partner has a high sex drive and you dislike sex, and you’re only having sex to get them to marry and then impregnate you (after which you’re no longer willing to have sex with them, and not willing to let them watch porn or have sex with other people), it is manipulative to not disclose that plan, and it lays the foundation for a very screwed up relationship. It will also screw up your relationship to demand sex constantly from someone who doesn’t want it, or to assume that someone who tells you straight-up “I have a low sex drive” or “I don’t like sex” is going to change because you are just so great. That does not happen! And relationships are all about compromise, but you can’t really compromise until you have all the facts laid out on the table, which neither Liz Jones nor her husband did (Liz didn’t seem to disclose that she was using sex purely as a tool to get wifed, and her husband didn’t disclose that he is a cheating piece of shit who was planning to use the “men just need sex constantly!” excuse to bang a bunch of other women). Which isn’t to say that people with differing sex drives can’t have functional relationships; of course they can, because people compromise all the time. But if you aren’t willing to come clean about your own desires, and especially if your view is “women hate sex and men are animals,” you’re going to have some problems.

Of course, your relationship is also going to have problems if you’re a terrible person, which is maybe the issue with both Liz Jones and her sleazy ex-husband.

via Jezebel.

About Jill

Jill began blogging for Feministe in 2005. She has since written as a weekly columnist for the Guardian newspaper and in April 2014 she was appointed as senior political writer for Cosmopolitan magazine.
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60 Responses to Wait, and it’s feminists who hate men?

  1. evil fizz says:

    I’m still waiting for her to explain how if mothers never havesex again how some women end up with more than one kid.

    Also, the whole bit about how being cheated on with sex workers is universally better than flirting with a colleague: huh?

  2. The Nerd says:

    Has she considered that she’s asexual? Probably not, because then that would acknowledge the fact that some people actually are different from other people, and that some people enjoy sex more than other people, and that she has no authority to speak for everyone else anymore.

  3. Um, no. See, I’ve never wanted children, ever. I only ever got “wifed” because my now husband wanted to ensure I would be in charge of his medical care if he were incapacitated. I also like sex.

    So, apparently, all women don’t care about marriage except as a practical issue, all women don’t want babies ever and all women like sex.

    Hmmmm . . . That seems directly contradictory to Liz Jones’ assertions. Is it possible that Liz Jones is only correct about Liz Jones and I am only correct about me?

  4. I don’t believe anyone is like the characters on SATC. I mean, that’s why it’s a fictional TV show…Oh, and also, it’s not like everyone is different or anything! The thing I dislike about Jones is her tendency to see everything in a binary. According to her, SATC is what feminists believe is representative of every women. Uh, no. Just like Jones herself is also not a representative of every woman. I find it ironic that she’s criticizing feminists for apparently claiming that every woman must love sex (how dare feminists speak for every woman! Though we don’t), when she’s doing the exact same thing on the other end (women hate sex! I know because I’m a woman! And my five woman friends said so!)

    Why can’t people just leave other people’s sex lives alone? Yeesh!

  5. Olive Wildly says:

    When I first read this, I couldn’t help feeling very sad for her. It reminded me of a conversation I had with my mom. She once told me that sex wasn’t that great or fun. (now, that could’ve been to hint that i shouldn’t have sex, but I think it was the truth.) To not know that sex can be as fun and awesome for women as well as men shows that she has just not found the right (partner/position/mindset/happinesswself).

    Dear Liz, if you would rather your man paid for sex than had an affair, that is your own prerogative. Some people have open relationships. We all set those personal rules ourselves. But don’t attribute your own feelings to an entire gender. As a woman, I do feel uncomfortable with her generalizations about our gender. Not one of us is alike. It is rather naive to believe that what is common for her and her close friends is common for all women.

    When Liz wrote “I considered men who [cheat] to be disgusting, weak, disloyal, dirty and disease- ridden. The truth is, they are just being men.” I immediately thought of this quote from Hugo Schwyzer. “Men are not so vulnerable individually and collectively that the very fabric of society can only be held together through women’s sexual self-control. That’s the myth of male weakness: the false notion that women are biologically “stronger” than men when it comes to the capacity to resist sexual temptation.”

    Choices are choices. If you choose to cheat. It’s your choice. The fault of it does not rest on your partner or your mistress/mister. Don’t dismiss issues like cheating because you think males are too weak to control impulses.

  6. Julie says:

    Huh. I wish I knew that before! I have three kids and have been married for 10 years, yet I thought sex was still important to me. Even though my stomach does, in fact, resemble cold porridge, especially now because I just had a baby two weeks ago. Now that I know better though, I’ll just go ahead and look the other way if my husband decides he wants to have sex with someone else and sit here at home content with the three children I have as a result of stealing his super sperm.

  7. Lance says:

    “I decided to do some more research into the subject of men who stray. I asked seven of my girlfriends, all of whom are either married or living with a man, when was the last time they had had sex.”

    I do not think that word means what you think it means.

  8. Scar says:

    Wow. The internet is an amazing thing. Just the number of people out there who believe that their opinions, purely by virtue of being their opinions, must not only be correct but also be the opinions of everyone else as well is pretty scary.

    I really hope that at some point in her life Liz realises it’s possible to have an open, fantastic relationship with someone regardless of whether you have different levels of sex drive. Also, that not all men are assholes and that honesty tends to be pretty central to many intimate relationships.

  9. DP says:

    I predict that this thread will be civil, calm and reasonable, with no accusations of intolerance, bad faith or discrimination.

  10. CBrachyrhynchos says:

    But if you aren’t willing to come clean about your own desires, and especially if your view is “women hate sex and men are animals,” you’re going to have some problems.

    Well said.

  11. Lynnsey says:

    Also, who irons sheets, let alone uses that as an excuse to not have sex?

    This article is all kinds of f’ed up.

  12. Alison says:

    I love how in Liz’s world the only available options for women are either Samantha Jones or Liz Jones.

    (Insert “keeping up with the Joneses” joke here.)

    The fact that she makes money writing pointless and stupid shit like this is maddening. I feel like she should be paying us to read it.

  13. Rhonda says:

    I concur. Every individual is unique and the uniqueness of an individual doesn’t stop at sexuality and sex drives. Had she told him the truth about her feelings they may not have gotten married in the first place, had he told her he’d cheat if his he weren’t being sexually satisfied, she may have opted no to have married him (or date him for being a jerk) in the first place.

    But , how does all of this fit in with feminism? And why would *her* screwed up relationship reflect the relationships of all other heterosexual women?

  14. zuzu says:

    Alison: The fact that she makes money writing pointless and stupid shit like this is maddening.

    She writes for The Daily Fail. They have a conservative agenda, which includes being anti-feminist.

  15. JGirl says:

    I’m pondering inclusive language. A recent post at feministing, along with some twitter conversation about using the word citizens has made me wonder what types of exclusive language I use that perhaps I should be more mindful of.

    That sort of fits in with these types of “all women” or “all men” or “all of group N” statements. I know for a fact that I don’t fit into this woman’s picture of what “all women” want or don’t want and I know that her words make me really, really angry.

    I have a really high sex drive. I’ve never dated a man who had a sex drive as high as mine. I’m tired of being excluded and pathologized for this.

    And in the process of doing my own little polls amongst my friends and acquaintances, I find that most of the cis/straight ladies who are willing to talk about it want more sex from the man/men in their lives. I haven’t been able poll other ladies so much, though. Small town and whatnot.

    So my experience and “research” (lol) is in direct contradiction to hers, and yet I am not running around yelling about how “all women” want more sex.

    *sigh*

  16. Alison says:

    zuzu: She writes for The Daily Fail.They have a conservative agenda, which includes being anti-feminist.

    Oh, believe me, I know. That there exists a market for this crap is what I meant, really.

  17. Erika says:

    Am I the only one stuck on the fact that this woman has both the time and the inclination to iron her sheets?!

  18. Nimue says:

    Erika:
    Am I the only one stuck on the fact that this woman has both the time and the inclination to iron her sheets?!

    No that’s bugging me too, I mean hell who cares that much about sheets ? If I remember to wash sheets on a regular basis that’s an accomplishment for me, what with grad school and teaching and blah blah blah whine my life is busy. But seriously, if she somehow has so much time to spend on imo pointless work, why doesn’t she 1) do less pointless things and 2) use that time instead to try to deal with her problems?

  19. ozymandias says:

    I’m a horny little bugger, and yet somehow I still possess two X chromosomes. I am, admittedly, genderqueer, but I’m pretty sure Liz would still fold me into the “female” category.

    Also, if anyone would be a cheating bastard in my relationship, it would probably be me.

    Speaking of. Boyfriend! It has been nearly sixteen hours since last we fucked! You are falling down on the job!

  20. Sergey says:

    this blog has such a problem with evidence. in stories we dont like, the andecdotal tales get ridiculed ad naseum for not being representative samples – like this one. But stories that fit with the narrative we like get a pass on scrutiny – like say, a study about gendered differences in anxiety levels. or worse yet, if we have population-level data that conflicts with anecdotes we like, we try to justify keeping the anecdotes under the heading of “not invisibilizing” someone’s experiences – like, oh, i dunno… BMI vs fat people’s stories about doctors not being nice to them.

    evidence just seems to be the plaything of our Feminist Narrative. are you saying something we agree with? dont sweat the evidence, we got ya. do we not agree with you? NO AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE CAN MAKE YOU RIGHT

  21. PrettyAmiable says:

    Nimue: I mean hell who cares that much about sheets ?

    You know, I would never think to iron sheets. Even if they’re wrinkly when they come out of the dryer, my sheets always magically unwrinkle a day or two later. OMFG I hope my sheets are magic.

  22. Rhonda says:

    I think the issue here is, she’s saying ALL women hate sex, the person who responded to this blog/article is a woman who enjoys sex, therefore not ALL women hate it.

    Also there have been posts on Feministe that approaches the subject of women and their sexuality/sex drives and *gasps* not everyone felt the same way. Many women LOVED sex, it is an integral part of their lives, some really like it, many can take it or leave it, and others don’t really want to engage in it at all ever. That alone disproves the notion that ALL women hate sex.

    Furthermore, Liz Jones asserted that ALL women had sex to have A baby/become a mother (considering most women use birth control, I think we can all agree that is false) however there exists HOMOSEXUAL women who know it would never result in them becoming pregnant yet still have sex (also no man involved to trap or keep *gasp*), women who are infertile yet still have sex, women who already have children yet still have sex, women who NEVER want children yet still have sex, women who have can get another woman pregnant but doesn’t want to yet still have sex and even *supergasp* women who are PREGNANT yet still have sex.

  23. Ema says:

    That article frustrates me to no end. I had a relationship with a man that rarely engaged in sexual activity with me, but when he did I was not allowed to initiate said sexual activity. He barely liked to have sex, but I compromised because we cared for each other. However, sex is an important part of all relationships and if you are not willing to compromise the sexual lack or overabundance, it is not going to work! I would sympathize for this woman if she did not blame her husband’s adultery on her lack of forgiveness. I find that to just be absurd.

  24. Yonmei says:

    The only person I ever knew who ironed sheets was a gay guy: I came round for a drink and found him happily at it. He told me, while pouring the wine, that there was a wonderful sensual pleasure at sliding between freshly-ironed cotton sheets.

    …I’m pretty sure he and his boyfriend liked sex.

    That said, look, Jill: the Daily Mail is a monster paper. Properly speaking it doesn’t even have a Conservative agenda – though the owner is a Conservative peer. Jonathan Harmsworth, 4th Viscount Rothermere, who is a non-domiciled British citizen, paying tax in France. Rothermere has said on the record, in the House of Lords, that the main concern he has about the Daily Mail is that it maintain circulation: money for him.

    The Daily Mail will publish anything – homophobic, racist, misogynist – just to drive up circulation. That a Daily Mail story outrages you, Jill, does not surprise me: that’s exactly what it’s meant to do. You are meant to increase the profits of the Daily Mail, drive up advertising revenue to Viscount Rothermere, by getting outraged and posting a link to their site. You’ve done so – without warning: I clicked and then realised where you’d landed me.

    I warn right-wing Americans (who love Daily Mail stories) that if a story is published in the Mail, it’s almost certainly not true. (Here’s an example.)

    The only way to resist that is to refuse. Do not link to the Daily Mail website. Ignore their ugly stories. They’re only writing them to make money.

  25. anna says:

    “Once we have a man, his children, his name on a piece of paper, his youth and his house”

    Because all women are goldiggers who don’t really love their husbands, amirite? Just a bunch of goldigging whores who dole out the sex to keep hubby happy while he spends his youth working to buy wifey a house (because obviously no wife earns an equal or greater salary than her husband) and giving her children (obviously a sacrifice for him, just as monogamy is, because all men are total horndogs who hate the thought of marriage and/or children).

    WTF??!!

    Seriously, if you are a straight woman with a low sex drive and monogamy is important to you, maybe you could find a man with a low sex drive? Because they actually do exist, and convincing yourself you weren’t forgiving enough because you actually expected your own husband to be faithful (at no point did they agree on an open relationship, notice) is fucked up.

  26. Sheelzebub says:

    Oh, GOD. Is this twit going on and on about her now-defunct marriage to that human flukeworm she married? Liz, dear, the cow is dead, stop trying to milk it.

    Honestly, these two trainwrecks manage to be simultaneously hateful and pathetic. They truly deserved each other. If you find you’ve ingested poison and the syrup of iapac isn’t working, read some of her archives or some of the misogynist drek he’s written.

  27. Spades says:

    Here’s to my nasty cold porridge, then, Liz! Except that these are my battle scars and most of the time, they only serve to remind me of my one true love: my child.

    In my case, it is true that I lost my mojo after having a child, and I’m not sure why. But I can attest that some women are sex machines, and I wish I were again! I’m working on it, Liz, I’ll let you know when I figure out the fix, so maybe you can have a little fun in your life… because it’s better than a big house.

  28. Paraxeni says:

    @Yonmei – yep, the Faily Heil purely exists to feed the outraged sensibilities of ‘oppressed’ white, straight, cis, abled, middle-Englanders.

    There’s a Chrome plugin called IstyOsty that redirects any Fail/Vexpress/Torygraph link so that the sites don’t get page hits or ad revenue from posted inks. I HIGHLY recommend it. http://istyosty.com/ works for non-Chromies.

    Sergey – bugger off if you don’t like it.

    Jill – Liz Jones is the same person who insisted she knew *exactly* how homeless people feel, because one day she went out without her credit card, and could not book into a posh Chelsea hotel. Oh, the tears, they spring from my eyes. As someone who was homeless, I think it’s fine for me to call her a [XENI’S BRAIN HAS SWITCHED TO AUTO-CENSOR MODE. NORMAL SERVICE WILL RESU..] and that’s being kind.

  29. Erin says:

    Hello, I am a woman, and I am offended by the inaccuracy of her statements.

    To me, sex is the most amazing thing ever. I crave it like a drug. My boyfriend works and goes to school, so he is always tired, so I don’t get it very often. But when I do, I scream and moan nonstop because I am orgasming the whole time. I almost always initiate sex too. And yes, I feel hurt when I get turned down. And days when I can’t get sex, I watch porn and masturbate.

    TRUE STORY.

  30. I have had so many health problems recently that I simply can’t have sex with my partner. I want to, but I can’t. And I feel incredibly guilty about it, because, contrary to what Liz Jones thinks, my partner loves having sex. It feels to me as though I’m denying her what she has ever right to expect.

    I know that if I were in her situation, I might be much more impatient. But she loves me enough to wait. And, according to her, the act itself is enjoyable, but simply having me close by is much more important.

    The whole of my adult life I’ve had sexual side effects from illnesses and medications, which in addition to creating lots of feelings of shame has left me frustrated. But I think I’m always worse on myself than any partner, relationship, sexual, or otherwise has ever been on me. And while on the subject, it seems that sterility in men is far more shameful and injurious than if a woman is ever told that she is barren. No one would dare mock a woman for not being able to have kids. That would be considered mean-spirited and cruel. It inspires pity. Yet, nothing is more humorous to some than finding humor when men are thought to be somehow less masculine than they ought to be.

  31. has EVERY right to expect….

  32. Paraxeni says:

    @Comrade K – me and my partner both have chronic illnesses and disabilities that require heavy medication that sometimes take sex off the menu, you’re not alone.

    After some mutual sadness we actually agreed that actually, great, fun, not-hurty sex once a month is better than daily sex when we’re tired, or in pain, or just not in the mood. We make sure to make it really awesome when we do get round to it, and make sure that we have plenty of intimate time when we’re not.

    Thanks to coming to peace with the situation despite me being a pretty sexual person there are times now when all I crave is a long backrub, and going to sleep with my head on her chest. I think for a fair few years I got into the bad habit of equating frequency of sex with desirability,because I have low self-esteem. Now that I’ve figured that out, it doesn’t feel so bad to have to limit how often we do it.

  33. Paraxeni says:

    Ugh excuse my awful punctuation, the drugs must’ve kicked in!

  34. Jess says:

    Wow, my super-horny, heavily-pregnant-with-child-number-three self would probably make her head explode…

  35. xenu01 says:

    Women don’t like sex= cold hard fact?

    Cold hard fact: Science consists of using a larger sample than yourself and your three best friends.

  36. Natalia says:

    Liz Jones is a troll like Camille Paglia, but slightly less pretentious.

    She should also just go ahead and date Rich Santos.

  37. Been There 0828 says:

    Now I am an oldie but not goodie. After years of therapy and marriage, 17 in fact, we have sex basically every other day, if not more. I can’t get enough of the poor, tired man and it’s getting worse! I am truly becoming out of control, especially when he plays his guitar. Poor woman, she needs my therapist. Get a life!

  38. Macha says:

    I almost gagged. I almost can’t believe that a real human being said it.

    I just want to raise my hand as a woman who DOES really like sex. Really. Love it. And hey look, I can admit that there are women who don’t want sex or don’t enjoy it much without thinking they’re sick or something! You should try it out Liz! I’m sick of some women trying to speak for all women.

  39. Kathleen says:

    this is just Liz Jones doing what she does — saying pathetic stuff about her trainwreck life to generate pageviews for the Daily Mail. The way they pay her to mine her own unhappy soul and psyche — it reeks of sulfur.

  40. Athenia says:

    “Particularly once their stomachs develop a texture akin to cold porridge.”

    Wow. Someone has a horrible self-image/self-esteem. That couldn’t possibly affect libido…..*eye roll*

  41. Where to begin? Both women and men differ as individuals. Sex is more important to some of us than others. Those of us who like it (and I do) don’t all like it for the same reasons, and have different reasons at different times. Sometimes, it’s physical itch-scratching. Sometimes, it’s affection and closeness. Sometimes, it’s a feelng of power and validation. Or some combination of all those.

    I’m about halfway through writing a blog post about sex, so I hope you won’t mind if I refer to this one.

  42. Nahida says:

    That quote sounds like she hates women more than it sounds like she hates men. I think I’ve actually heard an MRA say that women just want to steal sperm before.

  43. JustDucky says:

    Been There 0828:
    NI am truly becoming out of control, especially when he plays his guitar.

    I hear ya, sister. My husband picks up the acoustic, and he can guarantee a very affectionate spouse. The electric guitar… He can barely set the thing down without breaking it.

  44. Azkyroth says:

    I had a relationship with a man that rarely engaged in sexual activity with me, but when he did I was not allowed to initiate said sexual activity. He barely liked to have sex, but I compromised because we cared for each other.

    So, he wouldn’t let you initiate sex, but he cared for you?

    Buh?

  45. Alara Rogers says:

    This woman is disgusting.

    She believes women, in general, don’t want sex, at all. She admits that she herself never wanted sex, she just put up with it for the sake of kids and having someone support her. She also believes that men desperately want sex. But men who cheat are horrible, horrible people? Even though they are, in her view, going out to have sex with people who do want them and thus leaving their wives alone?

    Please tell me this woman is really a male MRA troll. Surely this level of utterly clueless misandry simply can’t exist in the real world. This is the straw woman that MRAs claim all of us are.

    Because if she’s on the level she’s basically saying men aren’t human and have no right to have their desires fulfilled. Men want sex, it’s okay for women to use sex (which they don’t want) to trick men into giving them children and financial support, and then the men are not allowed to go have sex elsewhere once their wives (who, recall, never wanted sex and were using it to manipulate) stop giving them sex? Um, the fuck? Women have the right to use sex to manipulate men but men who then seek sex elsewhere, after their wives stop wanting them, are terrible people?

    I would have cheated on this asshole too. Except I wouldn’t have married her in the first place, because, assuming she really exists and really has these opinions, how do you not notice that everything coming out of her mouth is a lie and she radiates hatred and resentment for you? I mean, I know our culture encourages men to not pay any attention to women’s emotional states, but seriously how do you not notice this?

    I mean, obviously her assertion that women all hate sex is absurd. But, even *within* that context, if you assume that everything she says is true for *her* and that she does in fact believe her own bullshit, then she’s a horrible, horrible person, a seething mass of misandrist resentment, and yet, I bet she would never actually turn to feminism to find a resolution to the conundrum that she completely hates and despises men and believes they *should* suffer or else they are bad people, and yet she thinks she needs one to support her.

    This is your brain on patriarchy. MRAs, please take note: This woman is NOT A FEMINIST. Feminists despise her. But I do also feel sorry for her, in a small way, because I am absolutely certain that it is her belief that the traits that are trained out of men (which I’m sure she believe men biologically lack) are superior to the traits men do exhibit, and yet society forces women to survive on the sufference of men (because, you know, feminism doesn’t exist and it was totally never an option for her to maybe shack up with a woman and get pregged from a sperm bank, or be a single mom), that has led her to develop this case of raging misandry.

    In a world where women aren’t shamed for having sex drives, she would have known that her low sex drive is not a “normal” part of being a woman and she just has to put up with being with a man with a high sex drive because that’s the way all women live, but it’s a trait with a wide variety, and while there’s nothing wrong with a low sex drive, the fact that high sex drive in women *exists* suggests that women with low sex drive should not be using “but no women like sex” as an explanation to themselves for why they are putting themselves through such misery, and should instead recognize that their situation is one they can and should change. Either she’s a lesbian, and would have been happier in a world where she could have admitted it to herself; or she’s asexual, and would have been happier in a world where she didn’t believe all women were secretly asexual; or she has a low sex drive, and would have been happier in a world where she didn’t believe all women have very low sex drive; or she just has no desire whatsoever for her husband, and would have been happier in a world where the concept of a woman settling for a man who doesn’t turn her on is as appalling as the notion of a man marrying a woman he has no interest in. And in any case, a world in which she wasn’t told from early childhood that sex is disgusting and dirty, but men like it, and therefore men are disgusting and dirty people, but they run the world so you have to pretend to like them, would have been better for her and everyone.

  46. PrettyAmiable says:

    Hey, don’t you have a blog you need to be starting for your adoring public?

  47. ellid says:

    If women don’t like sex, then I wish someone would explain why I spent so much time wearing sexy nighties, losing weight, and all but getting down on my knees and doing a full scale Marabel Morgan in hopes of getting my former husband to pay attention to something other than the MMORG he played every night for five straight hours.

  48. Anne says:

    A few things about me:

    1) I’m a woman.
    2) I enjoy sex, and have a higher sex drive than my boyfriend does.
    3) I like having freshly ironed sheets, and iron mine when I have the time (which is to say, rarely).

  49. Azalea says:

    Alara Rogers: This woman is disgusting.She believes women, in general, don’t want sex, at all. She admits that she herself never wanted sex, she just put up with it for the sake of kids and having someone support her. She also believes that men desperately want sex. But men who cheat are horrible, horrible people? Even though they are, in her view, going out to have sex with people who do want them and thus leaving their wives alone?Please tell me this woman is really a male MRA troll. Surely this level of utterly clueless misandry simply can’t exist in the real world. This is the straw woman that MRAs claim all of us are.Because if she’s on the level she’s basically saying men aren’t human and have no right to have their desires fulfilled. Men want sex, it’s okay for women to use sex (which they don’t want) to trick men into giving them children and financial support, and then the men are not allowed to go have sex elsewhere once their wives (who, recall, never wanted sex and were using it to manipulate) stop giving them sex? Um, the fuck? Women have the right to use sex to manipulate men but men who then seek sex elsewhere, after their wives stop wanting them, are terrible people?I would have cheated on this asshole too. Except I wouldn’t have married her in the first place, because, assuming she really exists and really has these opinions, how do you not notice that everything coming out of her mouth is a lie and she radiates hatred and resentment for you? I mean, I know our culture encourages men to not pay any attention to women’s emotional states, but seriously how do you not notice this?I mean, obviously her assertion that women all hate sex is absurd. But, even *within* that context, if you assume that everything she says is true for *her* and that she does in fact believe her own bullshit, then she’s a horrible, horrible person, a seething mass of misandrist resentment, and yet, I bet she would never actually turn to feminism to find a resolution to the conundrum that she completely hates and despises men and believes they *should* suffer or else they are bad people, and yet she thinks she needs one to support her. This is your brain on patriarchy. MRAs, please take note: This woman is NOT A FEMINIST. Feminists despise her. But I do also feel sorry for her, in a small way, because I am absolutely certain that it is her belief that the traits that are trained out of men (which I’m sure she believe men biologically lack) are superior to the traits men do exhibit, and yet society forces women to survive on the sufference of men (because, you know, feminism doesn’t exist and it was totally never an option for her to maybe shack up with a woman and get pregged from a sperm bank, or be a single mom), that has led her to develop this case of raging misandry. In a world where women aren’t shamed for having sex drives, she would have known that her low sex drive is not a “normal” part of being a woman and she just has to put up with being with a man with a high sex drive because that’s the way all women live, but it’s a trait with a wide variety, and while there’s nothing wrong with a low sex drive, the fact that high sex drive in women *exists* suggests that women with low sex drive should not be using “but no women like sex” as an explanation to themselves for why they are putting themselves through such misery, and should instead recognize that their situation is one they can and should change. Either she’s a lesbian, and would have been happier in a world where she could have admitted it to herself; or she’s asexual, and would have been happier in a world where she didn’t believe all women were secretly asexual; or she has a low sex drive, and would have been happier in a world where she didn’t believe all women have very low sex drive; or she just has no desire whatsoever for her husband, and would have been happier in a world where the concept of a woman settling for a man who doesn’t turn her on is as appalling as the notion of a man marrying a woman he has no interest in. And in any case, a world in which she wasn’t told from early childhood that sex is disgusting and dirty, but men like it, and therefore men are disgusting and dirty people, but they run the world so you have to pretend to like them, would have been better for her and everyone.

    Loving you, your post and I totally agree.

  50. Carrie says:

    I love sex. LOVE IT. No matter how tired I am, I can always muster up the energy for an orgasm. I have lots of married girlfriends with children and SOs and we love to talk about sex and how much we love sex and how to have it more, despite our busy, exhausting lives.

    I feel sorry for Liz Jones– her view on marriage is just plain sad. She obviously married to have babies and be a wife, but doesn’t sound like she a) picked a good mate or b) wanted to have a real, honest relationship. That’s her dysfunction, not the rest of women. Like any dysfunctional person, she is normalizing her behavior to justify her bad choices. It’s not her fault because men are just scum bags and feminists tell us if we don’t enjoy sex we are bad. She misses the lesson in her failed relationship and will probably latch on to a new man for more sperm and marital (un)bliss.

    My husband doesn’t annoy me, he isn’t some horny stallion ready to mount the first mare that walks in his path and I ENJOY being with him in non-sexual ways. It’s funny how things work out when you are upfront with a partner you like from the beginning and choose a mate not for his ability to support and fill you with sperm, but for other reasons…

  51. The targets weren’t the most challenging, but I liked how this post was right about everything.

  52. Carrie says:

    Spades:

    In my case, it is true that I lost my mojo after having a child, and I’m not sure why. But I can attest that some women are sex machines, and I wish I were again!I’m working on it, Liz, I’ll let you know when I figure out the fix, so maybe you can have a little fun in your life… because it’s better than a big house.

    Pregnancy, birth and lactation do crazy and horrible things to the female body. I had this really awesome doctor once who told me that if you don’t get your life back after expelling that cute little parasite, discuss it with a professional! She was of the mind-set that we are not supposed to sacrifice our bodies on the altar of motherhood. Things like inability to lose weight, depression, and lack of sex drive postpartum aren’t badges of honor, but results of the horror of a baby f-ing up your body. They are fixable, but too many doctors shrug it off as complaining-women-syndrome. We deserve to get that mojo back!!

  53. sherunslunatic says:

    Wow. Someone has a horrible self-image/self-esteem.

    Liz Jones infuriates me, but I can’t feel anything but pity for her after reading this article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1191429/Fatten-What-happened-anorexic-Liz-Jones-eat-normally-weeks.html

  54. gold says:

    This could have been a interesting article if she hadn’t screwed it by trying to generalise about everyone else.

    Women who don’t want sex are as despised as women who want it ‘too much’ – both groups don’t fit into the ‘goldilocks zone’ that society craves women align with.

    So I’m willing to listen to the voice of someone who just wants to talk about their impression of sex and experiences with it, whether it is positive or negativem, regardless of whether she is a newspaper shock jock. But unfortunately, she had to make it about ‘womanhood’ instead of just herself.

  55. Yonmei says:

    Macha: I almost gagged. I almost can’t believe that a real human being said it.

    You don’t have to. There is no reason to suppose this article reflects anything close to Liz Jones’s actual feelings about sex or men. It’s a Daily Mail article: Jill is just doing her bit to drive up Viscount Rothermere’s annual income. This article has been an admirable success from Rothermere’s point of view: it drove traffic to his newspaper’s website, thus bringing in additional revenue from online advertising.

  56. Brett K says:

    sherunslunatic: Liz Jones infuriates me, but I can’t feel anything but pity for her after reading this article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1191429/Fatten-What-happened-anorexic-Liz-Jones-eat-normally-weeks.html

    Oh, wow. That has got to be one of the most depressing things I have ever read.

  57. denelian says:

    Comrade K;

    i totally feel you. used to be, *I* was the one bugging HIM for sex. then i turned 30, the displaysia of my right hip got the point that i couldn’t walk [my hip was just *destroyed*, inside] and 6 surgeries later, sex is so incredibly painful, it barely happens – as it, even less than his low threshold would like.

    it’s definately a guilt-inducing thing.
    thankfully, it appears your partner is like my boyfriend – *YOU* are the important thing. sex is good, but it’s not EVERYTHING, and she cares enough to wait until you CAN, again.

    as for the OP at the Daily Fail – she is NOT a Liz, and she is NOT part of my Lizbian army. disowned!

  58. Pingback: How we mothers used sex to trap men and get their sperm « blue milk

  59. Sarah McAlpine says:

    I wouldn’t want to have sex if I ironed my sheets. What a waste of effort that would be.

  60. Pingback: People are alike all over, so everyone must think just like me « Fraser Sherman's Blog

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