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Jill has been blogging for Feministe since 2005.
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78 Responses

  1. Michelle
    Michelle August 16, 2011 at 2:27 pm |

    I am sick to my stomach after reading that man’s words. He is as much a monster as his brother.

  2. FashionablyEvil
    FashionablyEvil August 16, 2011 at 2:27 pm |

    Cue MRAs in 3, 2….

  3. gidget commando
    gidget commando August 16, 2011 at 2:37 pm |

    I’m no longer shocked that such men exist as the man who would kill his daughter rather than deal with a court that didn’t equate “justice” with “whatever he wanted.”

    But this? “I think he did the right thing. I’m proud of my brother and now he’s in a better place. He’s at peace. His daughter’s at peace. She’ll have one name now, and we can move on. And hopefully the court will learn a little thing about justice,” Nabil said.

    This deserves a new pit of hell, IMNSHO.

  4. Rare Vos
    Rare Vos August 16, 2011 at 2:38 pm |

    There are no words. Times like this I wish hell did exist.

  5. Annaleigh
    Annaleigh August 16, 2011 at 3:29 pm |

    This man is a monster and what has happened to this little girl and her mother is horrific. And I agree with Rare Vos.

    Also, I dread the coming of the MRAs but it’s probably inevitable… :S

  6. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub August 16, 2011 at 3:47 pm |

    I made the mistake of reading the comments in the story. Lord. People were bringing out the xenophobia and Muslim-bashing–though this was an American family of Egyptian origin, and they’re CHRISTIAN.

  7. Annaleigh
    Annaleigh August 16, 2011 at 3:57 pm |

    Sheelzebub:
    I made the mistake of reading the comments in the story.Lord.People were bringing out the xenophobia and Muslim-bashing–though this was an American family of Egyptian origin, and they’re CHRISTIAN.

    Just as I imagined any other comment threads on this would be. So sad, and predictable.

  8. Randomizer
    Randomizer August 16, 2011 at 4:15 pm |

    This is the nightmare of every woman who has had children with an unbalanced EX. Jeebus the brother should be investigated for aiding and abetting.

  9. saurus
    saurus August 16, 2011 at 4:20 pm |

    I hadn’t even thought of the MRA thing…mostly because while I think most MRAs might say (and lament) that a custody-related decision drove a man to suicide, I don’t think they’ll be cool with the murder thing.

    But my first thought was…countdown to people getting into “honor killing” territory, racism, and anti-Islam crap.

  10. Girl from Ontario
    Girl from Ontario August 16, 2011 at 4:53 pm |

    How does killing a 3 year old who did nothing wrong even fit the definition of an honour killing? And how much do you want to bet that the idiots crowing about scary Muslims with their honour killings wouldn’t give a rat’s ass if they thought that it was just plain old domestic violence?

  11. Iam138
    Iam138 August 16, 2011 at 5:48 pm |

    Two points: first, he is actually an “exceptional” dad in the true meaning of the word, because most of us don’t kill our children during our divorces; he’s the exception. And second, someone should report the guy quoted in the story to the disciplinary body of whatever state or states in which he is admitted, as quotes like that show a complete disrespect for the rule of law, perhaps violating some rule or another. In my main state of admittance (Delaware), he would be getting a call from ODC, as I think he should.

  12. M
    M August 16, 2011 at 5:52 pm |

    Madeline was Caucasian and Egyptian. Her mother loved every aspect of her, including her heritage. This was the act of an insane person. He violated the custody orders 5 times in July. She saw him unravelling. He seemed to no longer care about the consequences of his actions. He was behaving erratically. She tried to get his visitation restricted until the 30th and then supervised visitation in conjuction with counseling. It is a big leap from Narcissistic and controlling jerk to murderer. Abduction–foreseeable. Murder–still so very hard to believe. A beautiful, spirited child was lost to us much too soon. A mother who dreamed of watching grow to addulthood is experiencing grief that cannot be put into words. His familys’ words should not be dignified with a response. It is just inane buzz. To even spend time talking about it fails to respect the enormity of the loss.

  13. Chally
    Chally August 16, 2011 at 6:44 pm |

    How very terrible.

  14. Athenia
    Athenia August 16, 2011 at 7:31 pm |

    Perhaps he was a good father, but he was a tremendously horrible, selfish person and obviously very, very troubled.

  15. Brett K
    Brett K August 16, 2011 at 8:28 pm |

    Athenia:
    Perhaps he was a good father, but he was a tremendously horrible, selfish person and obviously very, very troubled.

    I think one of the things that defines good fathers is that THEY DON’T KILL THEIR CHILDREN.

  16. CassandraSays
    CassandraSays August 16, 2011 at 8:39 pm |

    “I think he did the right thing. I’m proud of my brother and now he’s in a better place. He’s at peace. His daughter’s at peace. She’ll have one name now, and we can move on. And hopefully the court will learn a little thing about justice,” Nabil said.

    Justice – that word does not mean what you think it means. And if the spirit of your niece is not in fact at peace, I hope it’s you that she chooses to haunt.

  17. BJ
    BJ August 16, 2011 at 9:29 pm |

    “I think he did the right thing”… reading that about made me vomit. He stole the life of a little girl. I… just… I can’t even imagine…

  18. Dea
    Dea August 16, 2011 at 10:51 pm |

    Sheelzebub: I made the mistake of reading the comments in the story. Lord. People were bringing out the xenophobia and Muslim-bashing–though this was an American family of Egyptian origin, and they’re CHRISTIAN.

    That’s why I think Jill is wrong. The MRA wouldn’t touch this with a barge pole, evil Muslims still trump feminist harridan, methinks. And they are probably to stupid to find out that the man is in fact not a Muslim. The names just scream Muslims, you know.

  19. Alicia
    Alicia August 16, 2011 at 11:26 pm |

    There are many people who can call themselves victims of the family court system. This sick, horrible man is not one of them. And I fear for the children of his brother if that madman thinks he can call someone who murders his child an “exceptional father.”

  20. Bagelsan
    Bagelsan August 17, 2011 at 6:02 am |

    I think one of the things that defines good fathers is that THEY DON’T KILL THEIR CHILDREN.

    A high bar, I know. :p

  21. Michael Biggs
    Michael Biggs August 17, 2011 at 6:49 am |

    The comments by Nabil Samaan are so bizarre that it is amazing that it hasn’t been more reported (I googled it – there’s not much). Maybe some media are being gentle as he is bereaved and therefore not of sound mind?

    But I’m not aware of ANY section of society that would defend child murder. His comments are THE best example I have ever seen of words that could engage the whole of society in reinforcing the priority of safety of women and children. I see he is a lawyer – could he not be disbarred for publicly promoting child murder? Wouldn’t a campaign for this be a powerful way to engage society in challenging such violence and control?

  22. Michael Biggs
    Michael Biggs August 17, 2011 at 6:49 am |

    The comments by Nabil Samaan are so bizarre that it is amazing that it hasn’t been more reported (I googled it – there’s not much). Maybe some media are being gentle as he is bereaved and therefore not of sound mind?

    But I’m not aware of ANY section of society that would defend child murder. His comments are THE best example I have ever seen of words that could engage the whole of society in reinforcing the priority of safety of women and children. I see he is a lawyer – could he not be disbarred for publicly promoting child murder? Wouldn’t a campaign for this be a powerful way to engage society in challenging such violence and control?

  23. matlun
    matlun August 17, 2011 at 7:32 am |

    Alicia: There are many people who can call themselves victims of the family court system. This sick, horrible man is not one of them.

    And more importantly: That is utterly irrelevant.

    In what alternate reality does being a victim of the family court system excuse killing your own child?

  24. crazyguy
    crazyguy August 17, 2011 at 8:19 am |

    @ M- Way to be disgustingly ableist. As a person who lives with a number of mental illnesses, I’m NOT in the mood to see this man’s atrocious actions written off as the inevitable actions of an ‘insane’ person. Mental illness and moral illness aren’t the same thing, and I would definitely qualify a parent who would do this to their child as morally ill.

  25. MagnoliaQueen
    MagnoliaQueen August 17, 2011 at 9:13 am |

    A couple of months ago near me a man killed his wife, two teenage children, then himself. The husband’s father blamed the courts because he couldn’t see his kids after holding them hostage the year before. http://bangordailynews.com/2011/06/15/news/shooter%E2%80%99s-father-says-court%E2%80%99s-denial-of-visitation-rights-caused-dexter-shootings/

  26. Dawn
    Dawn August 17, 2011 at 9:34 am |

    What crazyguy said, if everyone who murdered was mentally ill, nobody would ever go to prison for murder, they’d just be sent to mental institutes. Besides, the rates of violence for the mentally ill are the same as those for people who are not mentally ill. The place where the true spike lies is actually substance abuse, so someone who drinks is more likely to kill you than a tee-total mentally ill person is.

    Leave the diagnosis to those who are qualified, a young girl died at the hands of her father, someone she probably trusted. That is tragedy enough, and requires a good look at the system that let her down without making stigmatising comments about marginalised groups.

  27. Niki
    Niki August 17, 2011 at 9:53 am |

    Dea: That’s why I think Jill is wrong. The MRA wouldn’t touch this with a barge pole, evil Muslims still trump feminist harridan, methinks. And they are probably to stupid to find out that the man is in fact not a Muslim. The names just scream Muslims, you know.

    This.

  28. chingona
    chingona August 17, 2011 at 9:56 am |

    crazyguy: @ M- Way to be disgustingly ableist. As a person who lives with a number of mental illnesses, I’m NOT in the mood to see this man’s atrocious actions written off as the inevitable actions of an ‘insane’ person.

    It’s pretty clear from his/her comment’s that M actually knows this family and is suffering as a result of this man’s actions in a way that none of the rest of us are. Maybe M said Mourad was insane because she knows something about the background here, not just to arbitrarily attack anyone with a mental illness. And maybe, just maybe, some kindness, rather than calling someone “disgustingly ableist,” is called for in this case. Yes, I just made a tone argument. Because a little girl is dead.

  29. Dawn
    Dawn August 17, 2011 at 10:12 am |

    @Chingona,

    Why is it everytime disablist language pops up here, we have oppression olympics, tone arguments and X is worse than that so disablist comments not really a problem comments?

    Seriously, nobody is saying this isn’t a tragedy, but on the other hand, so it’s also a tragedy that people including children have died and continue to die because of stigma about mental illness.

    If he was insane, then the system has let this guy and his daughter down, if he isn’t then the little girl was let down. Regardless, the important thing is what can be changed to prevent outcomes like this?

  30. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub August 17, 2011 at 10:34 am |

    OK, you know, while I’m glad people here are in agreement (mostly) that killing a child is a horrible thing and that maybe we shouldn’t lose sight of that, I absolutely dispute the idea that MRA’s wouldn’t go off on how the courts “made” a father kill his children (though I agree that many of them may go off on a racist rant instead this time. So difficult to choose which way to be a waste of space). They have certainly defended child murder as a result of a supposedly unfair court system in the past.

    Indeed, we’ve already got someone lamenting the courts and the judginess of people who think that Samaan was an assbucket and proving his ex’s case by murdering his daughter. (With the usual caveats of “of course we don’t know who was bad, but. . .” UM, protip: WHEN YOU MURDER YOUR TWO YEAR OLD DAUGHTER IT’S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD THAT YOU SUCK AS A PARENT AND THAT YOU’RE A FUCKING NIGHTMARE EX.)

  31. matlun
    matlun August 17, 2011 at 10:43 am |

    Dawn: If he was insane, then the system has let this guy and his daughter down

    “Insane” != “Not capable of agency or being responsible for your actions” (necessarily).
    (Pet peeve of mine: “Mentally ill” is a very broad range of conditions and not a monolithic whole)

    Can we just drop this derail, or does anyone believe this is a good way for this thread to go?

  32. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub August 17, 2011 at 10:55 am |

    Yeah. As someone who’s dealt with mental health issues herself, I can cut M (who apparently knows the family and feels the loss) a lot more slack than someone who say, bleats on and on about how certain people in poor neighborhoods live up to their stereotypes and make shitty comments about foreigners.

  33. matlun
    matlun August 17, 2011 at 11:31 am |

    @Jill: In your judgment of the full comment: Do you believe that was serious? “Anti-men hate by the agents of Satan in black robes of hell”?

  34. Sara
    Sara August 17, 2011 at 11:35 am |

    Funny how the words “martyr”and “murder” sound so similar.

  35. Kristen J
    Kristen J August 17, 2011 at 11:35 am | *

    I am SHOCKED…shocked I say.

  36. LC
    LC August 17, 2011 at 11:46 am |

    matlun: Anti-men hate by the agents of Satan in black robes of hell

    Yeah, that caught my eye as a bit much, too. Still, far be it for me to assume people can’t be weirder than I think.

  37. FashionablyEvil
    FashionablyEvil August 17, 2011 at 11:58 am |

    Yeah, that caught my eye as a bit much, too. Still, far be it for me to assume people can’t be weirder than I think.

    My experience has been that the MRAs that get through the spam/mod queues usually don’t start with the “agents of Satan in black robes of hell,” but they often devolve to about that level of discourse. (At which point they are usually banned).

    That said, I do kind of want a “black robe of hell.” Imagine it would have pretty red patterns on it too?

  38. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub August 17, 2011 at 12:11 pm |

    Anti-men hate by the agents of Satan in black robes of hell are the reason for massive suicide rates by recently divorced men. Destroying a man’s family is a heinous crime. The man in this story is the victim of violence to him and to his family.

    No. The agents of Satan–of whom I am their manager, by the way–are not the reason why some divorced men commit suicide. My staff really are agents. We’re trying to sign people up for reality shows in Hell after they die.

  39. gidget commando
    gidget commando August 17, 2011 at 12:54 pm |

    Actually, the world DOES know, because he killed his daughter for revenge. He was not a calm, sensible compromising man who happened to be caught in a nasty divorce with an evil ex — calm, sensible compromising men don’t kill their kids. And I think it’s safe to say that the ex-wife sure as hell was trying to protect her child, because she told the courts that she thought he was a threat and she deserved full custody. He proved her right.

    @Jill–quoted for massive dose of essence of Captain Obvious. (Why this obviousness escapes some folks, I do not understand.)

  40. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve August 17, 2011 at 1:02 pm |

    gidget commando:
    Actually, the world DOES know, because he killed his daughter for revenge. He was not a calm, sensible compromising man who happened to be caught in a nasty divorce with an evil ex — calm, sensible compromising men don’t kill their kids. And I think it’s safe to say that the ex-wife sure as hell was trying to protect her child, because she told the courts that she thought he was a threat and she deserved full custody. He proved her right.

    @Jill–quoted for massive dose of essence of Captain Obvious. (Why this obviousness escapes some folks, I do not understand.)

    I do agree that this is obvious…but I’ve questioned before the taking too seriously of comments made by someone who’s right in the midst of a massive tragedy(in this case someone who’s family member has just committed suicide after murdering another.) In a few days the brother may think this is as obvious as we do.

  41. Dawn
    Dawn August 17, 2011 at 1:45 pm |

    @matlun,

    If he was insane and if it directly correlates to what he did, then he was let down by the courts. Nobody is saying that mental illness = insane, but generally in legal terms insanity is considered to be having an incapacity to the point where you are not in control of your actions.

    However describing actions like murder which are considered evil as being because someone was “insane” without any back up is stigmatising mental illness.

    @Jill,

    With all due respect, while I can respect that someone may be in pain, paying it forward helps nobody. I object to such comments because people have died due to those beliefs. I have been very polite about it because it’s a sensitive subjects, that is the extent of the “slack”, I am willing to give.

    This is one of the biggest problems with erasing disablist language, people will often use claims such as “he/she didn’t mean it, they’re just angry/grieving/ignorant” or by framing not using the terms as if it’s truly incredibly effort not to do so.

    Words have power, they reinforce privilege and social inequality. Terms need to become unacceptable before we can really tackle the out spoken bigotry because they are the underpinnings of the whole problem.

  42. Rare Vos
    Rare Vos August 17, 2011 at 1:56 pm |

    I object to such comments because people have died due to those beliefs.

    And, absolutely everyone who has died for those beliefs is white, and everyone who currently suffers this stigma is white, therefore, don’t argue with Special White Lady.

    <blockquote
    I have been very polite about it because it’s a sensitive subjects, that is the extent of the “slack”, I am willing to give.

    And by “very polite” she means “decided issues personal to Dawn were more important than absolutely any and everything else being discussed at any given moment”.

    AKA the The Special White Lady Decides argument.

  43. DammitJanet
    DammitJanet August 17, 2011 at 2:05 pm |

    This story and this thread are so depressing.

    M- I’m incredibly sorry for your loss.

  44. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub August 17, 2011 at 2:09 pm |

    Dawn, are you the same person who commented on the London riots thread?

  45. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub August 17, 2011 at 2:17 pm |

    I’m thinking you are. And that you’re a hypocrite.

  46. Dawn
    Dawn August 17, 2011 at 2:21 pm |

    @Rare Vos,

    Contrary to popular believe people can care about more than one problem at once you know. Addressing problem X doesn’t stop just because Y problem also exists, what I’d like is not to have to deal with Y problem while discussing X problem, ie I’d rather not read an article on race issues and find disablist comments, or open an article on feminist issues and find disablist underpinnings or to open an article on mothering to find someone hasn’t got the foggiest notion of many of the issues that wear the rest of us out.

    All I ask is that you and other posters (including the article writers) consider not using stigmatising disablist terms, that when writing stuff you consider the impact it will have on others.

    PoC aren’t the only ones who struggle with issues. Everyone’s a little bit selfish when you get down to it, we all think our issues are worse than everyone elses, I will readily admit I’m not immune to that, but at the same time issues I and others face don’t just magically disappear because another issue is considered worse or the main part of the discussion.

    In short, there’s no need for the disablist comments or the disablist assumptions, if they aren’t made then you won’t get people like me objecting to them. Nobody wants to derail but I for one am getting absolutely sick and tired of “But racism/misogynism” as an excuse for disablism. It’s called mutual support, and it’s something many people don’t seem to have learned. You want someone to march in step with you? Don’t hamstring them and then complain when they get upset at it.

  47. zuzu
    zuzu August 17, 2011 at 2:29 pm |

    Jill: Destroying a man’s family is a heinous crime.

    Is there some new meaning of “destroy” that would exempt, you know, murder-suicide?

  48. Rare Vos
    Rare Vos August 17, 2011 at 2:37 pm |

    Contrary to popular believe people can care about more than one problem at once you know

    Thats rich coming from the Special White Lady who cares only about herself.

    PoC aren’t the only ones who struggle with issues.

    So, its definitely best to remind them that Special White Ladys suffer from problems too! Bigger, more important problems! Constantly!

    want someone to march in step with you?

    LOL Definitely not you. Special White Ladies are not allies. You’re excusing your constant display of white privilege – cuz you’re Special! – and erasing other people who suffer this stigma because you can’t bully them into shutting up.

    In case you still haven’t figured it out – just because Special White Lady finds something offensive, doesn’t mean everyone also has to find it offensive. Shocking, I know!

  49. Dawn
    Dawn August 17, 2011 at 2:47 pm |

    @Jill,

    The immigrant problem we’re having at the moment is all white, not PoC as a matter of fact. The immigrants have started leaving my area, do you know why? Because they damaged the local economy to the point where -they- can’t find work anymore. There are no jobs for anyone now.

    The economy is like the forest, it requires a balance between give and take, take too much and you get desert and we have desert.

    Also your complaint would carry a lot more water if you weren’t the one who supported judging women because “GF diets are a fad”. I care about my issues as a disabled feminist because YOU DON’T and many other feminists don’t.

    All I want is for folks to stop using disablist terms, and to realise that you do often leave disabled women out in the cold entirely.

  50. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub August 17, 2011 at 2:53 pm |

    Because they damaged the local economy to the point where -they- can’t find work anymore. There are no jobs for anyone now.

    Holy fucking shit. It’s like it’s Prove Sheelzebub Right Day or soemthing.

  51. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub August 17, 2011 at 2:54 pm |

    Sorry, Jill, I won’t feed the troll anymore (didn’t see your comment until after I posted).

  52. Dawn
    Dawn August 17, 2011 at 2:56 pm |

    @Rare vos,

    I care about other issues. Hence why I shouted at the whiny whites as well, their complaints were inappropriate.

    Not bigger, not more important, but equally important and worthy of consideration. Equality is about getting everyone what they need, not playing oppression olympics which is what you and others do and why people like me respond to the marginalisation and ignoring of our issues with such anger, we’re tired of being left out entirely.

    My viewpoint is just as valid as yours. I would not presume to tell you that you are not allowed to be offended at the whiny whites derailing, so don’t you dare tell me that I am not allowed to be offended or to ASK for CONSIDERATION when it comes to disabilist language.

    Seriously, I don’t get why it’s so hard to get people to do a tiny insignificant effort to remove what is a massive barrier to equal rights. It’s not like you’re being asked to do something hard, just not to use those terms because they are tied into things that hurt us even if you would deny it.

  53. Rare Vos
    Rare Vos August 17, 2011 at 3:31 pm |

    Word to that, Jill. Narcissistic Special White Ladies has stolen enough moments of my life. I should have known better than to try to get Special White Lady to finally understand other people don’t exist to march to her orders. Silly me, thinking non-white ladies, who – GASP!!! – are also disabled, get to decide how they will talk about themselves.

    Back on topic:

    but I’ve questioned before the taking too seriously of comments made by someone who’s right in the midst of a massive tragedy(in this case someone who’s family member has just committed suicide after murdering another.) In a few days the brother may think this is as obvious as we do.

    Maybe, but can such a statement be recanted? He’s straight up saying that killing a small child was justice; that she’s at peace; etc. Can something like that be reasonably recanted after being *so* public?

    Regardless of whether he does so or not, I fear no one is going to accept it if he did.

  54. Azalea
    Azalea August 17, 2011 at 3:33 pm |

    You know how our justice system works if you can’t pove it, they didn’t do (or didn’t have anything to do) with it. Maybe the uncle is tlaking out of the side of his ass, maybe he truely feels that way maybe he helped his brother and is feeling guilty. One thing for sure, he’s a certified asshole for making this particular thought about his brother and niece’s suicide/muder being justice a matter of public knowledge.

  55. Raja
    Raja August 17, 2011 at 9:29 pm |

    He clearly has serious issues and I wouldn’t be surprised if he was a sociopath. That is coming from someone who is not neuro typical.

  56. Raja
    Raja August 17, 2011 at 9:33 pm |

    Oh yeah psychopath would probably fit too, though they are pretty similar. Pretty much they both enjoy committing violent acts and think they are god.

  57. Miss S
    Miss S August 17, 2011 at 10:04 pm |

    PoC aren’t the only ones who struggle with issues.
    I can’t stop laughing at this.

    On topic, this is so heartbreaking. It makes me sad to know that the mom knew there was a problem, tried to save her daughter, and ultimately failed. I really can’t even begin to imagine the pain she’s in. I hope that she’s able to find peace, and I hope she’s got a strong support system.

  58. Miss S
    Miss S August 17, 2011 at 10:04 pm |

    PoC aren’t the only ones who struggle with issues.
    I can’t stop laughing at this.

    On topic, this is so heartbreaking. It makes me sad to know that the mom knew there was a problem, tried to save her daughter, and ultimately failed. I really can’t even begin to imagine the pain she’s in. I hope that she’s able to find peace, and I hope she’s got a strong support system.

  59. Miss S
    Miss S August 17, 2011 at 10:05 pm |

    Ummm… sorry for the double post. I don’t know how that happened.

  60. CassandraSays
    CassandraSays August 17, 2011 at 10:28 pm |

    “That said, I do kind of want a “black robe of hell.” Imagine it would have pretty red patterns on it too?”

    I have a black dressing gown that has a red dragon embroidered on the back. Do you suppose that counts as a black robe of hell? I feel that I should have one, being an evil castrating bitch feminist and all.

    (The fact that my dad bought that dressing gown for me when I was in my teens surely indicates that he is in on the plot and thus a traitor to the menz.)

  61. matlun
    matlun August 18, 2011 at 6:58 am |

    CassandraSays: I have a black dressing gown that has a red dragon embroidered on the back. Do you suppose that counts as a black robe of hell?

    I am not sure. Does the “of hell” part means that it has to be made of the substance of hell? (And what is that exactly? Wool can be very itchy – perhaps that is because it is actually of infernal origin?)

  62. Rare Vos
    Rare Vos August 18, 2011 at 7:57 am |

    This is one of the big ones for us: that our illnesses make us dangerous, that anyone who commits a crime as heinous as this must be one of us, because this is what people with mental illness do. Combating that stereotype is really front line stuff for non neurotypical people and our allies.

    As I said, this stigma adversely affects me too. I GET IT. I get what Dawn was trying to say amid her Special White Lady diatribes. I hear what you’re saying. Doesn’t mean I agree with other people’s ideas on how to combat such things.

    While it wasn’t me (at least on this thread) who got tripped up on ableist language, and while I agree that the use of such language needs to die a faster death, its not okay when Special White Lady derails threads with her need to be the center of attention conveniently whenever the topic of the post is people of color suffering horrible tragedy.

    I’m definitely not saying that problematic language should not be called out. But, it doesn’t have to be deliberately derailing. Case in point: the way you handled this was infinitely superior to what’s been going on lately.

    So, I guess that was a really long winded way of saying: thanks for making the point in a straight forward, classy way. It’s refreshing.

  63. Miss S
    Miss S August 18, 2011 at 11:32 am |

    While it wasn’t me (at least on this thread) who got tripped up on ableist language, and while I agree that the use of such language needs to die a faster death, its not okay when Special White Lady derails threads with her need to be the center of attention conveniently whenever the topic of the post is people of color suffering horrible tragedy.

    Which is the same point people have been making for days now. And yet…. it continues.

  64. Rare Vos
    Rare Vos August 18, 2011 at 12:47 pm |

    Which is the same point people have been making for days now. And yet…. it continues.

    I see that. Know any black women friendly feminist blogs that aren’t all about jesus?

  65. Raja
    Raja August 18, 2011 at 12:55 pm |

    Alright I will just say hes a sick fuck than. thats a bit more clear.

  66. Dawn
    Dawn August 18, 2011 at 1:00 pm |

    @Rare vos,

    I don’t want to be center of attention, I just want people to stop USING and DEFENDING using such terms. Is that such a hard thing to understand?

    Why is it we can’t say “Please don’t do that” without getting treated like we’re being unreasonable because we asking someone not to contribute to our issues?

    Seriously, what will it take for people to stop using them and reinforcing disablist attitudes?

    @Miss S,

    It continues because you’re DEFENDING using such terms and making it clear that you support such language being used. Unsurprisingly people tend to object to such language.

    What is it with feminists and the near constant disabled fail. Seriously I do not get it, how hard is it to not use a handful of words that are widely acknowledged to be hurtful because they reinforce negative judgments about people with mental disabilities?

  67. Miss S
    Miss S August 18, 2011 at 2:49 pm |

    /derail
    I see that. Know any black women friendly feminist blogs that aren’t all about jesus?

    Let’s see. I’m Christian, (albeit one who doesn’t attend church) so I probably don’t notice Jesus references as much as someone who isn’t. That said, I read Racialicious (I know I didn’t spell that right), Acts of Faith in Love and Life (which is a Black Women’s Empowerment Blog) Clutch (an online magazaine geared toward Black women. Sojourners Passport was amazing, but sadly, Khadija no longer writes. Actually some of the Black Women Empowerment blogs take a pretty strong stance against the institution of the Black church. Beyond Black and White is great for Black women who date interracially. Check all of their blog rolls too for more resources. I wish there was more.

    /derail.

    Dawn, seriously, fuck off. I’m over your disablist rants.

  68. Raja
    Raja August 18, 2011 at 7:28 pm |

    What if a person who is considered “disabled” is not offended by such terms because they have their own reasons for using them?

  69. Rare Vos
    Rare Vos August 19, 2011 at 7:41 am |

    What if a person who is considered “disabled” is not offended by such terms because they have their own reasons for using them?

    This is what I’ve been saying repeatedly. The answer clearly is: We have no right to decide that for ourselves.

  70. Miss S
    Miss S August 19, 2011 at 12:36 pm |

    This is what I’ve been saying repeatedly. The answer clearly is: We have no right to decide that for ourselves.

    But apparently, Dawn has every right to speak for us, considering she’s been doing so for days now and has yet to banned, despite several people asking.

  71. feature feminist friday, august 26 ’11 « rachel writes

    [...] Feministe, “That’s an interesting definition of ‘victim’ you’ve got th… Nabil Samaan claims that his brother, Mourad ‘Moni’ Samaan, was a victim of a broken family court system. Mourad and his ex-wife Marcia Fay, were fighting for custody of their 2-year-old daughter. The couple clearly had issues, because they had never been in agreement about their daughters’ name: Madeline Layla Samaan-Fay (the Samaan family wanted her first name Layla, while the Fay family wanted it Madeline). So, to settle things once and for all, Mourad shot and killed his daughter and then killed himself. Mourad’s brother, Nabil, states: “I think he did the right thing. I’m proud of my brother and now he’s in a better place. He’s at peace. His daughter’s at peace. She’ll have one name now, and we can move on. And hopefully the court will learn a little thing about justice.” Are you fucking kidding me? Like this:LikeBe the first to like this post. [...]

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