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Jill has been blogging for Feministe since 2005.
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146 Responses

  1. Andie
    Andie October 17, 2011 at 3:52 pm |

    Never heard of him.

    From reading the first two pages of that article, I’ve not been missing much.

  2. Ladeeda
    Ladeeda October 17, 2011 at 3:53 pm |

    Huh. I’ve actually defended him before because I found him sort of jolly and harmless. Guess I was wrong.

  3. Florence
    Florence October 17, 2011 at 4:00 pm |

    You know those people who get stuck in a fashion rut, typically from whatever era where they hit their late teens and early twenties? Guy Fieri was clearly of the late Swingers era. He may also listen to Limp Bizkit and/or Squirrel Nut Zippers.

  4. Jadey
    Jadey October 17, 2011 at 4:03 pm |

    Well, fuck, I loved DDD – shameless food celebration on TV has been a balm to my tired, fat-shamed soul. And I love his fashion style as it quite resembles my own, so going to have to disagree with you there about the waste of space thing. But it wouldn’t be the first time a TV personality turned out to be a bigoted asshole behind the scenes.

    I’m torn about this reporting though. I mean, one guy, Page (who comes off as kind of an asshole himself), describes Fiere’s behaviour, but he’s on the other side of a legal battle and there’s no verification from anyone else, an official denial from Fiere, and what sounds like a newspaper trading on sensationalism (big surprise). I honestly don’t feel like I can trust any of these players.

    And what the fuck was up with that article and all the “rotund producer”, “pudgy prodigy” BS? Irrelevant physical descriptors, much.

  5. FashionablyEvil
    FashionablyEvil October 17, 2011 at 4:08 pm |

    Ugh, I’m with Ladeeda. It’s also too bad because I made his fried German potato salad recently and it was delicious.

  6. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub October 17, 2011 at 4:11 pm |

    Eh. Both he and Page sound like real sweethearts. And by sweethearts, I mean, screaming douchebag assholes.

  7. PrettyAmiable
    PrettyAmiable October 17, 2011 at 4:23 pm |

    Was anyone shocked when they heard? I love Food Network. He was never my favorite, but man, never would I peg him for a bigot. Till, you know, he soundly proved his bigotry.

  8. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 17, 2011 at 4:28 pm |

    Sheelzebub:
    Eh.Both he and Page sound like real sweethearts.And by sweethearts, I mean, screaming douchebag assholes.

    BINGO!

    And I agree with Jadey’s apprehension about this sort of one-sided hatchet job, especially since the article said he declined to comment, and he clearly denies it on Jadey’s link. So, Sheelzebub, may I add the author of the article to your sweetheart list?

  9. Hershele Ostropoler
    Hershele Ostropoler October 17, 2011 at 4:32 pm |

    Well … um … Page seems to attack individuals with, at least according to the reporter, non-categorist remarks. “You’re a stupid shithead and I hope you fucking die” is different in kind from homophobic remarks.

    (I missed the specific examples of misogyny, although he certainly comes off that way on television.)

  10. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 17, 2011 at 4:36 pm |

    AT the risk of sounding like a dumbass, I don’t get the comment about his sunglasses (also mentioned in the article linked above.) They look perfectly fine to me. The shirt is hideous, the pose is ridiculous and the hair looks like a toilet brush, but the sunglasses look to me like they are worn in the correct way.

    ????????…very confused…

  11. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 17, 2011 at 4:39 pm |

    Aaaahhh…got it.

  12. Hershele Ostropoler
    Hershele Ostropoler October 17, 2011 at 4:42 pm |

    Hershele Ostropoler: (I missed the specific examples of misogyny, although he certainly comes off that way on television.)

    Right after I commented I spotted the part about him ogling female-presenting interviewees.

  13. Erica
    Erica October 17, 2011 at 4:51 pm |

    Florence:
    You know those people who get stuck in a fashion rut, typically from whatever era where they hit their late teens and early twenties? Guy Fieri was clearly of the late Swingers era. He may also listen to Limp Bizkit and/or Squirrel Nut Zippers.

    For some reason, he reminds me of the singer from Smash Mouth. Do Not Want.

  14. TripleMused
    TripleMused October 17, 2011 at 5:06 pm |

    Describe and document your allegations Jill. Otherwise, I have no reason to think you are anything just a propagandist. I am not a Guy Fieri fan, but you are not actually making any sort of an argument besides: “that guy is a jackass!” who looks like a jerk, and I (Jill the Feministe) said so.

  15. Saurs
    Saurs October 17, 2011 at 5:22 pm |

    (He and the dude from Smash Mouth are BFFs, or at least appear so in public. At the behest and bidding of Something Awful, dude-from-Smash-Mouth decided to stage this egg-eating contest for “charity,” or summat, and apparently Fieri begged to get in on the action by cooking the dude’s eggs. Not a euphemism, unfortunately.)

  16. Kathy
    Kathy October 17, 2011 at 5:22 pm |

    Ugh. I’ve never been a fan of his (mostly because I found him supremely annoying), now I feel validated. Actually, this doesn’t surprise me at all, as I’ve always thought he was a little disrespectful and smug while piling on the charm and “chumminess.”

  17. Kathy
    Kathy October 17, 2011 at 5:22 pm |

    Ugh. I’ve never been a fan of his (mostly because I found him supremely annoying), now I feel validated. Actually, this doesn’t surprise me at all, as I’ve always thought he was a little disrespectful and smug while piling on the charm and “chumminess.”

  18. Thomas MacAulay Millar
    Thomas MacAulay Millar October 17, 2011 at 5:27 pm |

    Well, I’ll admit I loved the show — I’m good with bas cuisine. I loved that he got back into the kitchen and got elbow-deep in the bacon grease. But if he’s a misogynist, or an antisemite, or a homophobe, he’s a shitbag.

  19. konkonsn
    konkonsn October 17, 2011 at 5:28 pm |

    Awww…and I was rooting for him back when he was in the contest to become a star. Because at the time, I wanted more shows with science-y, cool type stuff rather than down-home cooking.

    *sigh* Oh well.

  20. Kara
    Kara October 17, 2011 at 5:33 pm |

    Just tell me that Alton Brown isn’t a closet asshole.

    No, wait… even if he is a closet asshole, don’t tell me. “Good Eats” is my favorite Food Network show.

    (Also, Squirrel Nut Zippers is a great band. How many other groups have a song about how everyone wants to ride the Zamboni?)

  21. zuzu
    zuzu October 17, 2011 at 5:44 pm |

    Quick Guy Fieri anecdote:

    He apparently has a son in the same T-ball league as my nephew. My brother reports that Guy Fieri arrived to the T-ball game in a screaming yellow Hummer, accompanied by a guy who wore a black satin jacket that read, “CULINARY GANGSTA” on the back.

  22. Clarisse Thorn
    Clarisse Thorn October 17, 2011 at 6:03 pm | *

    I actually love his shirt.

  23. La Lubu
    La Lubu October 17, 2011 at 6:04 pm |

    Well, not everybody can be a href=”http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1994875,00.html”>Anthony Bourdain.

    I’ve never watched his show, even though one of my city’s diners was featured. From what little I’ve seen of him, I thought he was a refreshing change of pace from the average holier-than-thou foodie types featured on the Food Network; I also figured his schtick was contrived—a mix between frathouse and I’m-not-gonna-use-the-term-in-mixed-company—totally calculated to contrast his persona with that of the snootier chefs (since there was no way he was going to carry off any version of “down-home”).

    Anyway….yes, he’s an asshole—but it’s still goddamn classist to call out his fucking hair and bowling shirts, FFS. If Ina Garten was saying the same bigoted shit, her wardrobe wouldn’t have been brought in, ykwim?

  24. La Lubu
    La Lubu October 17, 2011 at 6:04 pm |

    ahh shit. fucked up the tag. can you fix that, plz?

  25. La Lubu
    La Lubu October 17, 2011 at 6:06 pm |

    black satin jacket that read, “CULINARY GANGSTA” on the back

    IIRC, that’s in his latest cookbook.

  26. Anonymouse
    Anonymouse October 17, 2011 at 6:08 pm |

    There are no words to adequately describe my hatred of this dude. No words. But, up until now it was all based on a) those shirts b) sunglasses on the back of head and c) that jokey dudebro demeanor. I’m sort of relieved that I finally have a Valid Feminist Reason to hate him.

  27. zuzu
    zuzu October 17, 2011 at 6:11 pm |

    La Lubu:
    black satin jacket that read, “CULINARY GANGSTA” on the back

    IIRC, that’s in his latest cookbook.

    Still douchey.

    Anthony Bourdain? Also douchey. In a completely different way, of course.

  28. Comrade PhysioProf
    Comrade PhysioProf October 17, 2011 at 6:22 pm |

    This bums me out, as his cooking show–Guy’s Big Bites–is actually excellent from the standpoint of actually showing people how to really cook and explaining the technical reasons behind how things are done. He also really does the prep work and cooking and shows the real food as he prepared it, not just waving his hands around and then bringing out fully prepared stuff someone else made (like Emeril Lagasse).

  29. Greg
    Greg October 17, 2011 at 6:34 pm |

    A friend of mine from college was a contestant on the show he won. So I’m two degrees away from him.

    Yes, I would like a cookie. Why do you ask?

  30. Jadey
    Jadey October 17, 2011 at 6:41 pm |

    Anonymouse:
    There are no words to adequately describe my hatred of this dude. No words. But, up until now it was all based on a) those shirts b) sunglasses on the back of head and c) that jokey dudebro demeanor. I’m sort of relieved that I finally have a Valid Feminist Reason to hate him.

    Okay, so this is what I’m having some trouble with (sorry to use you as an example, Anonymouse, but this said it the most clearly!): is the certainty about Fiere’s bigotry based solely on the fact that he was already perceived as a tasteless asshole? Because other than this article, which I reiterate comes off as a very unreliable bit of journalism, I haven’t seen any other reference to reports of bigoted behaviour by him. It makes me uncomfortable that easy acceptance of a fairly serious charge against a person would be so closely tied to people disliking something as irrelevant as his fashion sense and his annoying demeanour* – it seems reflective of people denying a fairly serious charge against someone on the basis of his likeability and clean personal presentation (e.g., “Oh, he wouldn’t do that – he’s such a nice boy!”). I mean, no one has to like Fiere, but his sunglasses don’t make him more likely to be a sexist, anti-semitic homophobe.

    *Personally, I don’t find him annoying, but I can understand people who would. But I can also understand people who would find me annoying and my fashion sense horrifying to behold, and it’s bothersome that this could be used as evidence of my bigotry. If someone it to be held accountable, it should be for things they have done, not their style of dress.

  31. Comrade PhysioProf
    Comrade PhysioProf October 17, 2011 at 6:46 pm |

    One of the sources for the claim that Fieri is homophobic was contacted again and reiterated in no uncertain terms the basis for the claim:

    “As for the specific allegations about Fieri, ace fact-checker Gregory Pratt called back our second source for the anecdote about gay guests, Kari Kloster. She offered more details about what it was like to break the news of a guest’s gayness to Fieri:”

    http://blogs.citypages.com/food/2011/10/guy_fieri_jesse_derris_city_pages.php

  32. Hershele Ostropoler
    Hershele Ostropoler October 17, 2011 at 6:49 pm |

    Thomas MacAulay Millar: Well, I’ll admit I loved the show — I’m good with bas cuisine.

    Bas cuisine is great. Guy Fieri either is an obnoxious douche or unaccountably feels the need to portray one on television, and this article leads me to suspect the former.

  33. Lara Emily Foley
    Lara Emily Foley October 17, 2011 at 6:57 pm |

    La Lubu:
    Well, not everybody can be a href=”http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1994875,00.html”>Anthony Bourdain.

    I’ve never watched his show, even though one of my city’s diners was featured. From what little I’ve seen of him, I thought he was a refreshing change of pace from the average holier-than-thou foodie types featured on the Food Network; I also figured his schtick was contrived—a mix between frathouse and I’m-not-gonna-use-the-term-in-mixed-company—totally calculated to contrast his persona with that of the snootier chefs (since there was no way he was going to carry off any version of “down-home”).

    Anyway….yes, he’s an asshole—but it’s still goddamn classist to call out his fucking hair and bowling shirts, FFS. If Ina Garten was saying the same bigoted shit, her wardrobe wouldn’t have been brought in, ykwim?

    Wait what how is it classist?

  34. Jadey
    Jadey October 17, 2011 at 7:19 pm |

    Comrade PhysioProf:
    One of the sources for the claim that Fieri is homophobic was contacted again and reiterated in no uncertain terms the basis for the claim:

    “As for the specific allegations about Fieri, ace fact-checker Gregory Pratt called back our second source for the anecdote about gay guests, Kari Kloster. She offered more details about what it was like to break the news of a guest’s gayness to Fieri:”

    http://blogs.citypages.com/food/2011/10/guy_fieri_jesse_derris_city_pages.php

    Thanks for the additional source.

  35. cookies
    cookies October 17, 2011 at 7:36 pm |

    This thread isn’t nearly as entertaining as the little meltdown at Shakesville. Please rectify that. The charges of classism are a nice touch.

  36. zuzu
    zuzu October 17, 2011 at 7:47 pm |

    cookies:
    This thread isn’t nearly as entertaining as the little meltdown at Shakesville.Please rectify that.The charges of classism are a nice touch.

    THIS BLOG IS NOT A SAFE SPACE!!!!!!!!!!

  37. Jackie
    Jackie October 17, 2011 at 7:57 pm |

    Ladeeda:
    Huh. I’ve actually defended him before because I found him sort of jolly and harmless. Guess I was wrong.

    Don’t worry I thought the same thing. Seems they do a really good job of reigning him in for Drivers Diners and Dives.

  38. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 17, 2011 at 8:04 pm |

    Describe and document your allegations Jill. Otherwise, I have no reason to think you are anything just a propagandist. I am not a Guy Fieri fan, but you are not actually making any sort of an argument besides: “that guy is a jackass!” who looks like a jerk, and I (Jill the Feministe) said so.

    Jill: Do you understand the concept of a “hyperlink”? Click it.

    Amazed you dignified this with an answer.

  39. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 17, 2011 at 8:09 pm |

    Jill: …why is it classist? I’m not trying to be intentionally ignorant here. Where I grew up (Seattle, very mixed-class high school, upper-middle-class neighborhood) that aesthetic isn’t at all tied to being lower-class (or any particular class that I can think of?). It’s more of a cultural thing — listening to Smashmouth and whatnot, and being a Dudebro with cool-guy hair.

    If I’m missing something, I apologize. I hadn’t realized there were negative class connotations there. To me, it just reflects really bad taste in music.

    Will you please stop being so classist to multi-millionaire Guy Fieri?

  40. Bridget
    Bridget October 17, 2011 at 8:53 pm |

    Hmm, I’ve never seen his show but once I went out to breakfast with a friend and they were filming it at the restaurant. They asked if we agreed to be filmed, and I opted out because a)the only vegan option they would let me order was oatmeal, and whatever, I can make that at home*, and b)I’d just come from the gym and was a bit embarrassed about my appearance.

    They filmed at the table next to us and the waitress had to bring the poor folks their food like 5 times so they could get the shot right…I’m sure it was cold by the time they ate it.

    *This restaurant has a few vegan options but for some reason oatmeal was the only one they wanted shown on TV. Yeah, I have no idea.

  41. tinfoil hattie
    tinfoil hattie October 17, 2011 at 8:59 pm |

    Aaah, Shakesville. Criticizing a misogynist, homophobic, anti-Semite by saying, “Fieri also can’t keep his eyes off any tits in the room … ” (emphasis mine)

    As for Fieri, I wish I could say I am shocked when I find out that privileged white dudebros are also complete jerks, but I never am.

  42. Skateaway
    Skateaway October 17, 2011 at 9:08 pm |

    Fat Steve: Will you please stop being so classist to multi-millionaire Guy Fieri?

    While I believe Jill when she says her criticisms of Guy Fieri aren’t classist, class is based on a lot more than current income. One could easily, for example, spout a lot of classist bullshit about wealthy country singers or NASCAR drivers or hip-hop artists (mixed with racism, yay!) or what-have-you. Income is only one class marker.

  43. FashionablyEvil
    FashionablyEvil October 17, 2011 at 9:09 pm |

    Aaah, Shakesville. Criticizing a misogynist, homophobic, anti-Semite by saying, “Fieri also can’t keep his eyes off any tits in the room … ” (emphasis mine)

    In fairness to Shakesville (and it pains me to write that), in the article, Page says, “Anytime any woman mentioned ‘cream,’ Guy went into a sexual riff. When cutting the show, you had to tell the editors to watch Guy’s eye line, because it’s always on breasts.”

  44. Hershele Ostropoler
    Hershele Ostropoler October 17, 2011 at 9:22 pm |

    As a Jew, I really don’t see his antisemitism as documented in the article as being any worse than what I assume to be society’s baseline (I’m a lifelong New Yorker, I figure there’s slightly less here than in parts of the country where it’s easier to go through your day without encountering any actual Jews).

    Not that “no worse than other people” makes it okay, but it’s the difference between believing in the Four Humours theory of disease when everyone else does too, and being the lone germ theory denialist in the vicinity.

    Jadey: is the certainty about Fiere’s bigotry based solely on the fact that he was already perceived as a tasteless asshole?

    For me it’s a particular variety of tasteless assholery that tends to occur in people with sexist-homophobic views. It’s not really about his clothes per se, he comes off as having a Thing about masculinity.

    Fat Steve: Will you please stop being so classist to multi-millionaire Guy Fieri?

    Money demonstrates class, I’m not sure it determines or defines it.

  45. Donna L
    Donna L October 17, 2011 at 9:45 pm |

    FashionablyEvil: In fairness to Shakesville (and it pains me to write that),

    I didn’t know it was a competition. You and Hattie are being ridiculous.

  46. Miriam
    Miriam October 17, 2011 at 10:01 pm |

    One of my good friends once described this guy as “Bleachblonde McChinpubes.”

  47. Lara Emily Foley
    Lara Emily Foley October 17, 2011 at 10:13 pm |

    Still trying to understand how saying anything bad about Guy’s shirt and hair is classist.

  48. Azeylea M.
    Azeylea M. October 17, 2011 at 10:22 pm |

    Not to speak for La Lubu, but it’s my understanding that in many parts of the U.S., Fieri’s manner of dressing and styling himself are (working)class signifiers.

  49. TripleMused
    TripleMused October 17, 2011 at 10:30 pm |

    I clicked. Judgment is deciding about who is telling the truth. One bitter guy’s stories? Without even the “it was all a misunderstanding” from the Food Network PR dipwads? Thanks for the education on the internet, though.

  50. tinfoil hattie
    tinfoil hattie October 17, 2011 at 10:34 pm |

    I object to a feminist blog referring to breasts as “tits.”

    I also can’t stand men who a) contintinually “sneak” looks at women’s breasts (as though the breasts will suddenly, magically pop out from underneath their covering); and b) pretend we don’t know they’re doing it.

  51. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 17, 2011 at 10:39 pm |

    Azeylea M.:
    Not to speak for La Lubu, but it’s my understanding that in many parts of the U.S., Fieri’s manner of dressing and styling himself are (working)class signifiers.

    Oakley sunglasses, designer shirts, Rolex watch, salon haircut. What that guy is wearing costs more than both my parents made in a month.

  52. EG
    EG October 17, 2011 at 10:42 pm |

    I object to a feminist blog referring to breasts as “tits.”

    Why?

  53. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 17, 2011 at 11:00 pm |

    tinfoil hattie:
    I object to a feminist blog referring to breasts as “tits.”

    I also can’t stand men who a) contintinually “sneak” looks at women’s breasts (as though the breasts will suddenly, magically pop out from underneath their covering); and b) pretend we don’t know they’re doing it.

    What do you think the sunglasses are for?

  54. Lara Emily Foley
    Lara Emily Foley October 17, 2011 at 11:43 pm |

    Azeylea M.:
    Not to speak for La Lubu, but it’s my understanding that in many parts of the U.S., Fieri’s manner of dressing and styling himself are (working)class signifiers.

    His expensive clothes, sunglasses and immaculately spiked hair are working class signifiers? Really? On what planet?

  55. Lara Emily Foley
    Lara Emily Foley October 17, 2011 at 11:54 pm |

    Not to mention expensive watches and jewelery

  56. igglanova
    igglanova October 18, 2011 at 12:00 am |

    What’s wrong with ‘tits’? I love ‘tits’! So much more appropriately casual than ‘breasts’ in general conversation and with none of the childish silliness of saying ‘boobs’ all the time.

  57. DonnaL
    DonnaL October 18, 2011 at 12:25 am |

    That post was by Deeky, right? I took it as his deliberately speaking crudely from Fieri’s apparent viewpoint, since Deeky isn’t really a “tits” kind of guy.

  58. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 18, 2011 at 12:35 am |

    igglanova:
    What’s wrong with ‘tits’? I love ‘tits’!So much more appropriately casual than ‘breasts’ in general conversation and with none of the childish silliness of saying ‘boobs’ all the time.

    I love the word boobs. It’s the only word that looks like the thing it means.

  59. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 18, 2011 at 12:47 am |

    Hershele Ostropoler: Money demonstrates class, I’m not sure it determines or defines it.

    If you live in the US, you have that 100% wrong. Money does not demonstrate class, it determines and defines it. The middle class is solely based on income, hence the term ‘middle class tax cuts.’

  60. tinfoil hattie
    tinfoil hattie October 18, 2011 at 1:33 am |

    “Tits” is a casually used, gendered term used to reduce women to our body parts, as usual. “Breasts” is as appropriate a term for casual conversation as “fingers” or “elbow.”

    @ Fat Steve, good point & LOL about the sunglasses!

  61. igglanova
    igglanova October 18, 2011 at 1:50 am |

    Aw come on, I don’t mean ‘appropriate’ as in ‘acceptable in public and ABSOLUTELY not scandalous.’ Just that ‘breasts’ sounds overly formal / clinical when you’re just shootin’ the shit with a bunch of your friends. Must be a cultural thing. If I made an effort to never refer to my tits as tits anymore it would feel affected and silly.

    How can the word ‘tits’ reduce women to their body parts when you are specifically referencing these body parts? The words ‘breasts’ and ‘boobs’, etc., do this to the exact same degree.

  62. whatsername
    whatsername October 18, 2011 at 4:24 am |

    Oh wow…. OK… Well, I’ll just go for it I guess?

    I worked for Guy Fieri before he was famous. My husband has worked for him on and off before and after he was famous for something like 6 years all together.

    He was always a good boss. He acts exactly like he does on TV. Don’t change anything. The big rings, the hair, the sunglasses… The year before I was working for him it was a mullet until he got sick of being known as “the guy with the mullet” (“the guy with the blonde spiked hair” is apparently better)… His restaurants were some of the best to work at in my hubs’ career. Johnny Garlic’s more than Tex Wasabi’s.

    Anyway… In the years between us that we worked for him none of the things mentioned in the article ever showed themselves. The hubs was a manager for him too and even knows his parents and all that, and there was never any of that stuff going on that either of us saw. Doesn’t mean it’s not possible. But it certainly comes as a surprise to me to read all that (except maybe the inappropriate jokes, I could see that).

    Fame can change people obviously but hubs has worked for him since he “hit it big” and he was still exactly the same then. Doesn’t mean he has to be now I guess but that’s our experience…

    Guy is not a “nice guy” he can be vindictive and a jerk sometimes. So don’t get me wrong I’m really uncomfortable with being some sort of apologist for him but the whole article rubbed me wrong. I agree with Jadey that it stinks of tabloid journalism simply in the way it’s written and I think Page sounds like the exact sort of dude who would try and ruin someone’s career over a falling out. I mean, you’ll notice Guy isn’t writing angry emails because of adjective choices…

    I’m not here to change anyone’s minds or anything but I thought some might be interested in at least weighing my experiences with all the rest of this info.

  63. whatsername
    whatsername October 18, 2011 at 4:29 am |

    Not that I find the NYP to be exactly reputable but since this appears to be the level of journalism we’re going to look too this story seemed worth sharing: http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/tv/ex_coworker_calls_fieri_lewd_and_cPz9yxO9WoCkwxLUHc9WlL

    Also wanted to agree to zuzu’s comment, yep, I’ve seen that hummer parked outside work when picking the husband up many times. THAT story right there is Guy all over.

  64. ellid
    ellid October 18, 2011 at 6:24 am |

    What I find fascinating is how the original thread over on the City Pages basically turned into a gunfight between two sets of sockpuppets.

  65. FashionablyEvil
    FashionablyEvil October 18, 2011 at 6:53 am |

    Not to speak for La Lubu, but it’s my understanding that in many parts of the U.S., Fieri’s manner of dressing and styling himself are (working)class signifiers.

    I see the complaints about classism as more about the fact that he’s nouveau riche (or is perceived as such). His conspicuous consumption (expensive sunglasses, watch, ostentatious car, somewhat ridiculous embroidered satin jacket) indicates that he’s not old money. Not really any different than the 1920s folks claiming that the “undesirables are penetrating everywhere.”

  66. La Lubu
    La Lubu October 18, 2011 at 8:03 am |

    …why is it classist?

    Bowling shirts, the wraparound sunglasses, baggy short pants, lots of product in the hair (for those who have a lot of hair; shaving the head if a guy is balding)….those are strictly coded working class where I come from. The rich kids simply don’t dress like this where I’m from (also; class is heavily ethnicized as well as racialized around here; Italian last names automatically mark a person as working class even if their family has been nouveau riche for a generation or two….you wouldn’t see a dude like Guy Fieri on the country-club golf courses around here, even if he could afford it…he wouldn’t be welcome as a member no matter how he “cleaned up”). That Guy Fieri can afford a Rolex now doesn’t erase his class background. And that bowling shirt with the flames isn’t “expensive”—it’s off-the-rack at Target and Pennys (at least, I’ve seen shirts that look just like that one at plain old department stores).

    I’d also like to remind folks that “working class” and “poor” are not synonymous. Class discussions on the Internet are really weird. “Middle class” is reified into suburban McMansion, European car in the driveway (in the US, that is…here, European cars cost as much as the average rust belt house)……and “working class” is morphed into can’t afford to eat on a daily basis. It’s like Internetland doesn’t have carpenters, teachers, electricians, firefighters….WTF?

    And look, when your last name is Fieri, folks are going to make mob jokes. It comes with the territory. Being who I am and where I come from (yep, heard mob jokes all my life too), I figured he was having some fun with it—taking anger at the ignorance and defusing it with humor (“culinary gangster”). I do this too—-all day, everyday. My jobsite has at least as much ballbusting as Fieri’s. It’s a way of saying, “fuck you” to people who deserve it.

    Yes. It’s classist. The same way it’s classist when people (Nice White People™) look at me and make certain assumptions (oh, like being at one of my daughter’s IEP meetings…I used the word “pathologize” and one young teacher stage-whispered to another, “My, that’s a big word.” I set my eyes, looked at her, and said evenly, “yes, that is a big word” and kept it moving. figured that would make my point).

    Jadey said it better above: “It makes me uncomfortable that easy acceptance of a fairly serious charge against a person would be so closely tied to people disliking something as irrelevant as his fashion sense and his annoying demeanour* – it seems reflective of people denying a fairly serious charge against someone on the basis of his likeability and clean personal presentation (e.g., “Oh, he wouldn’t do that – he’s such a nice boy!”). I mean, no one has to like Fiere, but his sunglasses don’t make him more likely to be a sexist, anti-semitic homophobe.”

    Last part bolded for the truth. His fashion is irrelevant. His actions aren’t. It’s that simple.

  67. William
    William October 18, 2011 at 8:43 am |

    “Tits” is a casually used, gendered term used to reduce women to our body parts, as usual. “Breasts” is as appropriate a term for casual conversation as “fingers” or “elbow.”

    I think a pretty good argument could be made that a guy who wears sunglasses because he cannot avoid staring at any breasts in his field of view isn’t looking at women’s breasts so much as looking at an object (both in the feminist and psychoanalytic sense). That kind of compulsive staring does reduce women to body parts, you’re absolutely right. Phrasing that staring as “Fieri also can’t keep his eyes off any tits in the room…” connotes the specific kind of gaze involved with a clarity that a more clinical or critical description would lack for a broader audience.

  68. Jadey
    Jadey October 18, 2011 at 8:50 am |

    La Lubu: And look, when your last name is Fieri, folks are going to make mob jokes.

    It should probably be noted that “Fieri” isn’t his given name – according to Wikipedia, he changed it from “Ferry”. I’m not sure if he made it up or it was an old family name that got Anglicized, or whathaveyou.

    (I also do not know why my brain insisted on misspelling it all yesterday!)

  69. Hershele Ostropoler
    Hershele Ostropoler October 18, 2011 at 9:09 am |

    FashionablyEvil: I see the complaints about classism as more about the fact that he’s nouveau riche (or is perceived as such).

    La Lubu: Bowling shirts, the wraparound sunglasses, baggy short pants, lots of product in the hair (for those who have a lot of hair; shaving the head if a guy is balding)….those are strictly coded working class where I come from. The rich kids simply don’t dress like this where I’m from (also; class is heavily ethnicized as well as racialized around here; Italian last names automatically mark a person as working class even if their family has been nouveau riche for a generation or two….you wouldn’t see a dude like Guy Fieri on the country-club golf courses around here, even if he could afford it…he wouldn’t be welcome as a member no matter how he “cleaned up”). That Guy Fieri can afford a Rolex now doesn’t erase his class background.

    Fat Steve, this is what I was trying to get at, though obviously lacking in vocabulary. Having lots of money — and certainly wearing expensive clothes — doesn’t automatically bring class privilege along with it in all areas.

    Jadey: It makes me uncomfortable that easy acceptance of a fairly serious charge against a person would be so closely tied to people disliking something as irrelevant as his fashion sense and his annoying demeanour

    I agree with you on fashion sense, but annoying demeanor is totally if not automatically relevant. There’s a certain personality type that expresses itself in a particular type of annoyingness and also homophobia-misogyny (or, if you prefer, a particular type of annoyingness that includes homophobia-misogyny).

  70. Thomas MacAulay Millar
    Thomas MacAulay Millar October 18, 2011 at 9:23 am |

    What La Lubu said. If we’re interested in social justice, the issues are the allegations of homophobia, antisemitism and sexism. The rest is style critique, class-laden and subjective.

  71. EG
    EG October 18, 2011 at 9:32 am |

    “Tits” is a casually used, gendered term used to reduce women to our body parts, as usual.

    Meh. I don’t see it. It is casually used, of course, because it’s slang. I don’t see how it reduces us to our body parts.

    Stylistically, he looks like kind of a douchey frat boy to me.

  72. igglanova
    igglanova October 18, 2011 at 9:48 am |

    Are we really going to make the argument that it is oppressive to hate someone’s fashion sense because it is, in one part of the US, associated with a working class aesthetic? Not every ugly thing comes out of the privileged classes.

    For what it’s worth, the only people I remember wearing that kind of crap were middle-class high school douchebags.

  73. Meh
    Meh October 18, 2011 at 10:05 am |

    Reads like a hit piece rather than real journalism.

  74. Esti
    Esti October 18, 2011 at 10:28 am |

    Yes, disliking his shirts and sunglasses are subjective style critiques and do not mean that he is sexist or homophobic or whatever else. But that doesn’t mean that it’s classist to call his shirts and sunglasses ugly. Are we seriously at a point where people can’t express opinions about fashion without being called out for it?

    Look, some clothing or hair styles are very connected to class or race or what have you — if Jill had said that do-rags are stupid, or that all those poor people in their coveralls on their way to work are fashion victims, that would be one thing. But as many people have already pointed out, bright flame patterned shirts, wrap around shades, and bleached spiky hair are not signifiers of race or class. And even if, where you live those things tend to be associated with either working class or nouveau riche people (which, again, is certainly not true all over the place — I’m someone else who grew up in an area where you were much more likely to see those styles on someone driving a souped up BMW to high school than on people with less/no money), that doesn’t make dislike of those styles classist. Unless what you mean by “classist” is just “dislike of something that tends to be more true of working class people than wealthy people.” Which is… ridiculous. And really diminishes actual classism.

  75. Thomas MacAulay Millar
    Thomas MacAulay Millar October 18, 2011 at 10:32 am |

    I think there’s a significant difference between noting that some things involve class dynamics and calling people out for classism. The first is not in any way an accusation unless someone reads one in.

  76. La Lubu
    La Lubu October 18, 2011 at 10:37 am |

    No, the argument is that “fashion” is totally subjective, and thus irrelevant. Most of the critiques of Guy Fieri (in general, not necessarily on this thread) basically amount to “eew! He’s chubby and has tattoos and bleaches his hair and uses too much gel and wears low-end department store clothes!”……all of which is irrelevant. Long before this article came out, when the only issue was “can he cook or not”…..too many “foodies” thought he was ruining the brand by looking like an average, everyday guy. He didn’t look *respectable*.

    And I know some folks will justify that attitude by pointing to the stereotype that people who look like Guy Fieri are supposedly more bigoted than the Average Television White Guy™ (who is supposed to look more like Alton Brown). And that’s a myth. Men who look like Alton Brown are just as likely to be bigoted as men who look like Guy Fieri.

    Critiquing behavior is relevant. Critiquing appearance is not.

  77. zuzu
    zuzu October 18, 2011 at 11:05 am |

    La Lubu:
    No, the argument is that “fashion” is totally subjective, and thus irrelevant. Most of the critiques of Guy Fieri (in general, not necessarily on this thread) basically amount to “eew! He’s chubby and has tattoos and bleaches his hair and uses too much gel and wears low-end department store clothes!”……all of which is irrelevant.

    Too much gel on a guy preparing my food? Not irrelevant. It grosses me out just like it grosses me out that Paula Deen never takes off her rings while she’s cooking.

  78. La Lubu
    La Lubu October 18, 2011 at 11:38 am |

    Yeah, but with that amount of product in his hair, there’s a helluva lot less chance that wayward hairs are going to make their way into the food. Theoretically….in reality, everybody in a commercial kitchen is going to have a hairnet or hat on their heads. I’m just calling bullshit on the idea that critique of fashion—anyone’s fashion—is anything more than “not our kind, dear™”.

  79. EG
    EG October 18, 2011 at 11:43 am |

    I’m just calling bullshit on the idea that critique of fashion—anyone’s fashion—is anything more than “not our kind, dear™”.

    I think that’s a rather extreme view–that passing any aesthetic judgment on how somebody decorates themselves is only ever “not our kind.” It is often that, or that is often in the mix…but also, sometimes people find things ugly. The first people I saw wearing flip-flops around and about as though those things were real shoes were young white students at a private college, a group I once belonged to, and not so long ago when I first saw this, either. Nonetheless, I am of the opinion that flip-flops are not shoes, and they are ugly and stupid and I don’t want to see your feet, thank you. There may be some class resentment mixed in, as the kids I first saw wearing these were of considerably more monied and privileged backgrounds than I am, but I don’t think that’s the whole story there, either.

  80. La Lubu
    La Lubu October 18, 2011 at 12:15 pm |

    Sure. But what people find ugly or attractive is based in their background. I mean, what other explanation is there for Jill thinking that empire waist dresses are attractive, when “objectively”, they are an almost universally unflattering silhouette for adult women? But they are coded as “classy” or “sophisticated”.

    (There’s an essay by Maria Laurino in her book, “Were You Always an Italian?” On the differences between the northern-Italian aesthetic (Armani) and the southern-Italian and Sicilian aesthetic (Dolce & Gabbana) that touched on the class and regional codes in clothing and how the fashion industry plays on those pre-existing messages while appropriating styles.)

  81. Off White
    Off White October 18, 2011 at 12:25 pm |

    I’m with La Lubu, the fashion is irrelevant. We’re born naked, after that its all drag. Its not what we look like that matters, its how we act and treat others. I’m unfamiliar with the man in question, and I really have no way to know whether the piece written about him is true, but the part about how he looks and dresses struck me as unconsidered and kind of offensive, in a very shallow way. Is he a homophobic bigot? Now, that’s the crux of the biscuit, isn’t it?

  82. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 18, 2011 at 12:30 pm |

    Based on numerous comments I can’t see how there could be many Mayflower blue-bloods on this site, and I suspect most, like me, are or have known the first member of their family who migrated to this county.

    I think what people are objecting to about Fieri’s stylistic choices are that they are ‘loud’, which to me does not signify working class, it signifies attention seeking. Everything about him SCREAMS ‘look at me!!!!! LOOK AT MEEEEE!!!!!’ Which is fine, but some people are going to respond with ‘ok, you look like a dickhead.’

  83. Miku
    Miku October 18, 2011 at 12:31 pm |

    I don’t have anything to really add, but I totally agree with La Lubu and others on the classism. No one wants to burn Jill at the stakes for making such remarks, it’s just being noted. No need to get so defensive that you ostracise others from the comments…

  84. Florence
    Florence October 18, 2011 at 12:48 pm |

    Okay, okay, I concede that my fashion comments are so much snark. Honestly, I see the guy and see a total narcissist, and the funny thing about narcissism is that it’s often ill-placed.

    BUT I DO JUDGE YOU FOR WEARING SUNGLASSES ON THE BACK OF YOUR HEAD.

  85. zuzu
    zuzu October 18, 2011 at 1:25 pm |

    I might agree that his look would be off-limits for criticism if he were Joe Schmoe, but he’s a TV personality, and this is his costume, even if it’s a version of what he’s always worn. People choose costumes to convey a message, and he’s pretty clearly sending a message that he wants to be seen as loud and attention-grabbing and a thorough dudebro.

    I’m really not down with the idea that we can’t critique anyone’s fashion choices when they’re in the public eye and when they have a carefully crafted image. I do, however, absolutely agree that his look is not related to, or an indication of, any antisemitism, homophobia or misogyny on his part.

  86. Bitter Scribe
    Bitter Scribe October 18, 2011 at 1:28 pm |

    Not to be a concern troll, but that Page guy doesn’t sure doesn’t seem like any prize package himself. This looks to me like a case of one overpaid asshole sniping at another, and who cares.

  87. Thomas MacAulay Millar
    Thomas MacAulay Millar October 18, 2011 at 1:39 pm |

    There’s nothing wrong with critique of fashion choices, and recognizing that clothes have class implications doesn’t foreclose a discussion of taste, it informs it.

    It’s just that that’s a very separate issue from whether he’s a bigot. The only thing I am really arguing against is the notion that the one has any bearing on the other.

  88. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 18, 2011 at 1:41 pm |

    Thomas MacAulay Millar:
    There’s nothing wrong with critique of fashion choices, and recognizing that clothes have class implications doesn’t foreclose a discussion of taste, it informs it.

    It’s just that that’s a very separate issue from whether he’s a bigot.The only thing I am really arguing against is the notion that the one has any bearing on the other.

    Well, perhaps it’s because the article offers such weak proof of his bigotry that people are criticizing the thing we can actually see.

  89. EG
    EG October 18, 2011 at 1:49 pm |

    But what people find ugly or attractive is based in their background. I mean, what other explanation is there for Jill thinking that empire waist dresses are attractive, when “objectively”, they are an almost universally unflattering silhouette for adult women?

    I’ve always thought the empire waist was universally flattering, objectively speaking. They work on beanpole me, softening my sharper edges, and they work on my more rotund or even pregnant friends, with a nice drapey effect.

    That said, obviously background has a big influence on what people find ugly or attractive; what I objected to was that aesthetic judgment was based on nothing other than class division.

  90. igglanova
    igglanova October 18, 2011 at 2:25 pm |

    Oh good grief, nobody thinks his fashion sense is related to his stupid views. Clearly a direly serious post, this was.

  91. Kristen J.
    Kristen J. October 18, 2011 at 2:36 pm |

    EG: I’ve always thought the empire waist was universally flattering, objectively speaking.They work on beanpole me, softening my sharper edges, and they work on my more rotund or even pregnant friends, with a nice drapey effect.

    That said, obviously background has a big influence on what people find ugly or attractive; what I objected to was that aesthetic judgment was based on nothing other than class division.

    Imagine an empire waist on a large breasted person…. It tends to communicate: ENORMOUS BOOBS HERE. Which is rarely something I’m attempting to communicate.

  92. EG
    EG October 18, 2011 at 2:45 pm |

    I guess my large-boobed friends are just flashy ladies!

  93. La Lubu
    La Lubu October 18, 2011 at 2:46 pm |

    What Kristen J. said. Good Maude are empire waists unflattering—besides the ENORMOUS BOOBS HERE, they make most women look shapeless and frumpy.

  94. Florence
    Florence October 18, 2011 at 2:50 pm |

    La Lubu: Good Maude are empire waists unflattering—besides the ENORMOUS BOOBS HERE, they make most women look shapeless and frumpy.

    They make me look like I’m hiding pregnancy. Especially the dresses.

  95. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub October 18, 2011 at 2:58 pm |

    They make me look like I actually have boobies, so I do kinda love them but they aren’t for everyone.

  96. Kristen J.
    Kristen J. October 18, 2011 at 3:18 pm |

    EG:
    I guess my large-boobed friends are just flashy ladies!

    Hey, when I was signaling boob availability they were an excellent. ;)

  97. William
    William October 18, 2011 at 5:45 pm |

    I think what people are objecting to about Fieri’s stylistic choices are that they are ‘loud’, which to me does not signify working class, it signifies attention seeking. Everything about him SCREAMS ‘look at me!!!!! LOOK AT MEEEEE!!!!!’ Which is fine, but some people are going to respond with ‘ok, you look like a dickhead.’

    Except…the cultural signs go deeper than “loud.” Maybe it isn’t the same everywhere, but in working class Chicago “loud” isn’t just attention seeking but attention seeking in a very specific way. Its seen as clownish, as something the lower classes do to mimic what they believe to be the behaviors of the rich. Its animal prints on your couch and expensive marble statues in your front yard. Its the conspicuous consumption of immigran, be they Polish, Greek, Italian, Puerto Rican, or Mexican. “Loud” is often code for “spending money to show you have money in ways that more established ethnic groups find distasteful.” A custom lowrider might cost a hell of a lot of money to build, but no one is going to confuse it for an Aston Martin.

  98. La Lubu
    La Lubu October 18, 2011 at 5:56 pm |

    “Loud” is often code for “spending money to show you have money in ways that more established ethnic groups find distasteful.”

    This, and also, “loud” means being visible when you’re supposed to be invisible; present when you’re supposed to be absent. Showing pride in your heritage when you’re supposed to be whitewashing yourself (why haven’t you assimilated yet?). “Loud” is another rendering of “not our kind, dear™”.

    (seriously. think about that butt-fugly hat of Princess Beatrice—the one that garnered a helluva lotta comments on this blog. Of the many descriptors of that fine example of WTF, “loud” wasn’t one of them….despite the whole world standing in solid agreement that it was the ugliest hat in recorded history.)

  99. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 18, 2011 at 6:38 pm |

    La Lubu: (seriously. think about that butt-fugly hat of Princess Beatrice—the one that garnered a helluva lotta comments on this blog. Of the many descriptors of that fine example of WTF, “loud” wasn’t one of them….despite the whole world standing in solid agreement that it was the ugliest hat in recorded history.)

    Well, I dont think it was ugly per se, as it resembled a woman’s reproductive system, something which is quite beautiful. I think loud should have been used, and well, you are right to point out if it wasn’t. (I didn’t read that post, so I assume you’re right, apologies if anyone did call it ‘loud’.)

  100. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 18, 2011 at 7:35 pm |

    William: Except…the cultural signs go deeper than “loud.” Maybe it isn’t the same everywhere, but in working class Chicago “loud” isn’t just attention seeking but attention seeking in a very specific way. Its seen as clownish, as something the lower classes do to mimic what they believe to be the behaviors of the rich.

    Yes, but the subject in question here is not mimicking the rich, he is the rich.

    Its animal prints on your couch and expensive marble statues in your front yard. Its the conspicuous consumption of immigran, be they Polish, Greek, Italian, Puerto Rican, or Mexican.

    I am currently wearing purple leopardskin sneakers and a purple leopardskin belt, a purple shirt, and purple hat (with black ‘skinny jeans,’ although they are clearly faulty because I still look fat.) Plus I have a leopardskin chair and ottoman, a pair of zebra skin print shoes, and I though I am a 2nd generation USian on my mother’s side, I’m of an ethnic group you didn’t mention. I have never been told I look ‘loud’ (and believe me, my wife would tell me,) so I disagree with you on animal print being a signifier of anything.

    “Loud” is often code for “spending money to show you have money in ways that more established ethnic groups find distasteful.” A custom lowrider might cost a hell of a lot of money to build, but no one is going to confuse it for an Aston Martin.

    You may be right that “Loud” is often code for “spending money to show you have money in ways that more established ethnic groups find distasteful,” but I am not a member of one of those groups, so can’t speak for them. However, I find spending money to show you have money in ANY way distasteful. Not only is it distasteful but it’s wasteful and also extremely insensitive to people who don’t have that kind of money, especially in these economic times. I have much more respect for someone with a passion for cars who builds a custom low-rider because they have completed a labor of love than someone who buys an Aston Martin just to park it in their driveway to impress the neighbors.

  101. EG
    EG October 18, 2011 at 7:52 pm |

    I am currently wearing purple leopardskin sneakers and a purple leopardskin belt, a purple shirt, and purple hat (with black ‘skinny jeans,’ although they are clearly faulty because I still look fat.)

    You are awesome. That is all.

  102. FashionablyEvil
    FashionablyEvil October 18, 2011 at 9:00 pm |

    Virginia Postrel wrote a piece for the Atlantic a few years back that summarizes social science research on consumption, luxury goods, and affluence.

  103. Safiya Outlines
    Safiya Outlines October 18, 2011 at 9:11 pm |

    La Lubu:
    “Loud” is often code for “spending money to show you have money in ways that more established ethnic groups find distasteful.”

    This, and also, “loud” means being visible when you’re supposed to be invisible; present when you’re supposed to be absent. Showing pride in your heritage when you’re supposed to be whitewashing yourself (why haven’t you assimilated yet?). “Loud” is another rendering of “not our kind, dear™”.

    (seriously. think about that butt-fugly hat of Princess Beatrice—the one that garnered a helluva lotta comments on this blog. Of the many descriptors of that fine example of WTF, “loud” wasn’t one of them….despite the whole world standing in solid agreement that it was the ugliest hat in recorded history.)

    Ah, but if you are posh, you can be eccentric. If you are not posh then you will either have your taste condemned or your mental health questioned.

  104. whatsername
    whatsername October 18, 2011 at 9:47 pm |

    Jadey: It should probably be noted that “Fieri” isn’t his given name – according to Wikipedia, he changed it from “Ferry”. I’m not sure if he made it up or it was an old family name that got Anglicized, or whathaveyou.

    (I also do not know why my brain insisted on misspelling it all yesterday!)

    Haha I know this one actually. Wiki is wrong, Fieri IS his last name. However, according to his mother, it is traditionally pronounced “fairy” and so, yes, he pronounces it “fee-airy” instead now and has since he was young. Anyway, fun fact..?

  105. Jadey
    Jadey October 18, 2011 at 9:49 pm |

    whatsername: Haha I know this one actually.Wiki is wrong, Fieri IS his last name.However, according to his mother, it is traditionally pronounced “fairy” and so, yes, he pronounces it “fee-airy” instead now and has since he was young.Anyway, fun fact..?

    Oh, good catch! Damn you, collective knowledge resource!

  106. Lara Emily Foley
    Lara Emily Foley October 18, 2011 at 10:03 pm |

    whatsername: Haha I know this one actually.Wiki is wrong, Fieri IS his last name.However, according to his mother, it is traditionally pronounced “fairy” and so, yes, he pronounces it “fee-airy” instead now and has since he was young.Anyway, fun fact..?

    Just for curiosity what is your source on this?

    I’ve seen countless articles that refer to him as being born Guy Ferry, and cite him saying he changed it to honour is grandfather. I know false information gets around easily, but this is popping u[ again and again and I’ve seen no sources that explicitly say that they are false.

  107. Lara Emily Foley
    Lara Emily Foley October 18, 2011 at 10:05 pm |

    But you know what never mind it sounds like what happened is if anything his Grandfather changed his own name when he came to America to be more anglo and Guy just returned his name back to it’s original form.

    So it’s honestly irrelevant if he changed it or not.

  108. evil fizz
    evil fizz October 18, 2011 at 11:40 pm | *

    (seriously. think about that butt-fugly hat of Princess Beatrice—the one that garnered a helluva lotta comments on this blog. Of the many descriptors of that fine example of WTF, “loud” wasn’t one of them….despite the whole world standing in solid agreement that it was the ugliest hat in recorded history.)

    Well, it was beige. Notwithstanding, I think part of the point was that “Well, they’re the royals. They are expected to wear ridiculous hats. It’s a part of their identity.” But the royals get a pass on it for reasons which are (at core) classist. It’s apparently entitled to context in a way that Guy Fieri is not.

    Regarding the original piece: Page and Fieri both come off as flaming jackasses whose egos are threatening to stage a coup.

  109. Junaid
    Junaid October 19, 2011 at 12:15 am |

    It seems like the entire accusation is based on a co-worker who was kicked off the show Guy was in.

    Guy’s rep says the allegations are baseless.

    I believe that’s reasonable doubt, Jill. Didn’t they teach you that in law school?

  110. Kristen J.
    Kristen J. October 19, 2011 at 12:22 am |

    Junaid:
    I believe that’s reasonable doubt, Jill. Didn’t they teach you that in law school?

    OMIGOD! Jill is the criminal justice system?!!? I had NO idea. Jill, you should apologize immediately. Guy Fieri is going to prison FOREVER and its ALL YOUR FAULT because you judge people on the internet.

  111. EG
    EG October 19, 2011 at 12:27 am |

    Yes, what is the sentence for the crime of “being a racist, sexist douchbag,” these days?

  112. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 19, 2011 at 12:56 am |

    Junaid:
    It seems like the entire accusation is based on a co-worker who was kicked off the show Guy was in.

    Guy’s rep says the allegations are baseless.

    I believe that’s reasonable doubt, Jill. Didn’t they teach you that in law school?

    The accusations were made by two separate people who said they witnessed this behavior. The defense was made by someone who earns his living off of Guy Fieri. That is about as unreasonable as doubt gets.

  113. whatsername
    whatsername October 19, 2011 at 1:59 am |

    Lara Emily Foley:
    Butyou know what never mind it sounds like what happened is if anything his Grandfather changed his own name when he came to America to be more anglo and Guy just returned his name back to it’s original form.

    Yep you got it. :) My source is my husband. Guy’s mom told him (my husband) that fact some time back (Guy’s parents both came in and did work on the restaurants from time to time and took a shine to my hubs).

    I didn’t know the name had ever been anglicized (though that’s no great surprise really) but what she had said is that the pronunciation of it is “ferry/fairy” and that Guy purposefully pronounces it differently, which she found quite amusing reportedly.

    Make of that what you will, lol.

  114. Lara Emily Foley
    Lara Emily Foley October 19, 2011 at 2:20 am |

    whatsername: h

    Coolio. Yeah I realized right after that my challenge was irrelevant anyway but thanks for the source reveal, was just curious :)

  115. Kelly
    Kelly October 19, 2011 at 6:45 am |

    Jadey pretty much summed up my reaction. Well, fuck. I was never a fan of his but I love DDD. Bummer.

  116. FashionablyEvil
    FashionablyEvil October 19, 2011 at 7:55 am |

    Yes, what is the sentence for the crime of “being a racist, sexist douchbag,” these days?

    I’d hate to see what percentage of the US population would be incarcerated if that were a crime.

  117. tinfoil hattie
    tinfoil hattie October 19, 2011 at 8:28 am |

    Phrasing that staring as “Fieri also can’t keep his eyes off any tits in the room…” connotes the specific kind of gaze involved with a clarity that a more clinical or critical description would lack for a broader audience.

    If, indeed, that was the author’s intent, then putting quotation marks around the word, “tits” would have been more effective.

    I don’t like women being called “chicks,” either. I find it demeaning. I also find it ridiculous to have to use a term other than “breasts” because it’s too “clinical.” Is “leg” too clinical? How about “neck,” or “hair,” or “foot”? Is “pussy” or “c***” preferable to “vagina”?

  118. EG
    EG October 19, 2011 at 8:40 am |

    Eh, almost all the sexualized body parts have slang terms, as do others. Feet, for instance, have had all kinds of slang terms over the years. And sometimes I do use “cunt” rather than “vagina” when I want a certain effect or to convey a certain emotion.

  119. William
    William October 19, 2011 at 9:31 am |

    Yes, but the subject in question here is not mimicking the rich, he is the rich.

    Having cash is related to class, but it isn’t the same thing. Thats what I’m trying to say. Accusations of “loud” are often loaded with racial, ethnic, and class messages. Just because someone like Fieri has money doesn’t mean that certain statements about how he spends it and how he presents himself aren’t rooted in classism.

    I have never been told I look ‘loud’ (and believe me, my wife would tell me,) so I disagree with you on animal print being a signifier of anything.

    Perhaps you have the perceived privilege to be read as eccentric rather than loud, perhaps the signifiers of class and privilege as it relates to conspicuous consumptions are different where you live, perhaps (and by the style you described I’m guessing this isn’t entirely unlikely) you’re involved in a subculture with different rules and reads.

    A woman in her 40s with a Leopard print couch covered in plastic isn’t going to have quite the same reads because of her leopard print as a hipster in his 20s.

    However, I find spending money to show you have money in ANY way distasteful. Not only is it distasteful but it’s wasteful and also extremely insensitive to people who don’t have that kind of money, especially in these economic times.

    Not only does that put you squarely in the minority of human beings, but its irrelevant. The issue of class isn’t here to measure our left wing credentials, but to point out that certain kinds of criticisms have certain kinds of power attached to them. Maybe you’re not the kind of person who would say “that person’s outfit makes them look like a pollak” or “you can tell greeks live there” or “you can take the kid out of the barrio but you can’t take the barrio out of the kid, huh?” but there are a lot of people in a position to oppress who absolutely would and do, I’ve heard it.

    Yeah, Guy Fieri seems to be a class A douchebag, but that doesn’t change some of the ways in which criticisms of him are loaded. Not the least because a lot of people here seemed to have a general negative attitude towards him before his behavior was exposed.

  120. FashionablyEvil
    FashionablyEvil October 19, 2011 at 9:44 am |

    However, I find spending money to show you have money in ANY way distasteful.

    That’s a function of class, though. The article that I linked to above does a nice job of showing how people who feel more secure in their social status and wealth level tend to reject conspicuous consumption, while those who are part of non-wealthy, less stable social groups tend to spend more money on flashy items.

  121. Florence
    Florence October 19, 2011 at 10:00 am |

    FashionablyEvil: while those who are part of non-wealthy, less stable social groups tend to spend more money on flashy items.

    This is interesting. I was ruminating the other day on how my personal taste has evolved now that I am older and want to be seen as a member of the “successful” “middle class” (And that this has become a value of mine at all? Tell sixteen-year-old mohawked me that I’ll later spend hours on ebay trolling for designer handbags and she will never believe you). One of the things I’ve noticed is that I’ve become more interested in small designer items (i.e. cheap) that are conspicuously branded. I know full well that sporting anything with a giant designer label on the side instantly marks you among the true upper classes as a low-rent poser, but nevertheless, that desire is there. What’s that about?

  122. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 19, 2011 at 10:06 am |

    EG:
    Yes, what is the sentence for the crime of “being a racist, sexist douchbag,” these days?

    Ten years on The Food Network, apparently.

  123. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 19, 2011 at 10:08 am |

    EG: And sometimes I do use “cunt” rather than “vagina” when I want a certain effect or to convey a certain emotion.

    I tend to use it when I’m referring to Piers Morgan.

  124. Kara
    Kara October 19, 2011 at 10:09 am |

    I am currently wearing purple leopardskin sneakers and a purple leopardskin belt, a purple shirt, and purple hat (with black ‘skinny jeans,’ although they are clearly faulty because I still look fat.)

    Is the hat a fedora? I am a sucker for a brightly colored fedora.

    (I owe this weakness to a great admiration of Archie Goodwin’s outfits in the A&E Nero Wolfe series… he was a helluva snappy dresser.)

  125. EG
    EG October 19, 2011 at 10:14 am |

    My personal taste has barely evolved at all. I’ve mellowed a bit, and I want to project a different persona, so I do dress differently (also because I care less about what other people think of how I look), but when push comes to shove, I will always prefer brightly dyed/bleached hair with obvious roots, fishnet stockings, motorcycle jackets, etc.

  126. Florence
    Florence October 19, 2011 at 10:19 am |

    EG: but when push comes to shove, I will always prefer brightly dyed/bleached hair with obvious roots, fishnet stockings, motorcycle jackets, etc.

    Yeah, me too. But now I want the motorcycle jackets to be real leather and the hair job to have been professional. :P Thankfully my rational brain talks my lizard brain out of spending the money.

    Fat Steve: Ten years on The Food Network, apparently.

    Lulz.

  127. zuzu
    zuzu October 19, 2011 at 12:44 pm |

    Junaid:
    It seems like the entire accusation is based on a co-worker who was kicked off the show Guy was in.

    Guy’s rep says the allegations are baseless.

    I believe that’s reasonable doubt, Jill. Didn’t they teach you that in law school?

    Bwahahaha.

    I bet you think Jill violates your First Amendment rights, too.

  128. zuzu
    zuzu October 19, 2011 at 12:49 pm |

    Fat Steve: I tend to use it [cunt] when I’m referring to Piers Morgan.

    This from the guy who thought that Alexander Sarsgard was being sexist for saying Swedes were sexually liberal?

  129. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 19, 2011 at 12:57 pm |

    zuzu: This from the guy who thought that Alexander Sarsgard was being sexist for saying Swedes were sexually liberal?

    Maybe you’re right, and I shouldn’t find that word less sexist when I use it towards a British man than towards a woman or a vagina.

  130. zuzu
    zuzu October 19, 2011 at 1:24 pm |

    Fat Steve: Maybe you’re right, and I shouldn’t find that word less sexist when I use it towards a British man than towards a woman or a vagina.

    Why would you use it toward a woman, Steve?

  131. igglanova
    igglanova October 19, 2011 at 1:31 pm |

    Eh, I think ‘cunt’ can be used as an insult on the internet as long as you understand the person is using it in the ‘British way.’ Of course, that requires knowing the person using it relatively well. Context changes everything.

    /not helping

  132. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 19, 2011 at 2:18 pm |

    zuzu: Why would you use it toward a woman, Steve?

    I wouldn’t. I meant that that is where I draw the line, and now you’ve made me think about that.

  133. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 19, 2011 at 2:20 pm |

    igglanova:
    Eh, I think ‘cunt’ can be used as an insult on the internet as long as you understand the person is using it in the ‘British way.’Of course, that requires knowing the person using it relatively well.Context changes everything.

    /not helping

    That’s what i thought, but zuzu’s comments made me realize that not everyone understands that, and I should be more careful with my words.

  134. zuzu
    zuzu October 19, 2011 at 2:37 pm |

    Fat Steve: That’s what i thought, but zuzu’s comments made me realize that not everyone understands that, and I should be more careful with my words.

    Also, if you are not British, do not even try to use the “But I was using it in the British way!” argument.

  135. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve October 19, 2011 at 2:44 pm |

    zuzu: Also, if you are not British, do not even try to use the “But I was using it in the British way!” argument.

    If you knew me, you wouldn’t say that. Which is why it was stupid of me to say it (or imply it,) in a forum where people don’t know me.

  136. sabrina
    sabrina October 19, 2011 at 2:51 pm |

    just want to point out that vagina was a slang word that got turned into a medical word because people are fucking misogynist douche canoes. Cunt on the other hand was an actual medical word that got made into a derogatory slang word because again people hate women.

  137. Amelia ze lurker
    Amelia ze lurker October 26, 2011 at 3:23 am |

    Fat Steve: Ilovethewordboobs.It’stheonlywordthatlookslikethethingitmeans.

    Synesthesia! Know it! Love it! I love Fat Steve’s comment because it directly relates to the bouba/kiki effect. Or should I say boobah/kiki effect LOLOLOL (if you shot me I would not be offended).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouba/kiki_effect

  138. Amelia ze lurker
    Amelia ze lurker October 26, 2011 at 3:23 am |

    Fat Steve: Ilovethewordboobs.It’stheonlywordthatlookslikethethingitmeans.

    Synesthesia! Know it! Love it! I love Fat Steve’s comment because it directly relates to the bouba/kiki effect. Or should I say boobah/kiki effect LOLOLOL (if you shot me I would not be offended).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouba/kiki_effect

    /end derail

  139. Clarence
    Clarence October 31, 2011 at 8:21 pm |

    Having been raised in a rural community where Oakleys on the back of the head are a standard accessory, I can testify that they aren’t all jackasses.

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