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Jill has been blogging for Feministe since 2005.
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176 Responses

  1. rb
    rb November 10, 2011 at 10:28 am |

    Really!!! What is going on in our society that people take to the streets for their right to win a football game? What?!?!

  2. Larkin Callaghan
    Larkin Callaghan November 10, 2011 at 10:33 am |

    I agree times a million. I also wrote about the stunningly insulting reactions of Paterno fans – http://larkincallaghan.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/433/

  3. debbie
    debbie November 10, 2011 at 10:34 am |

    The idea that people care more about football then kids being hurt makes me sick.

  4. jillian
    jillian November 10, 2011 at 10:34 am |

    *applaud*

  5. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub November 10, 2011 at 10:38 am |

    THIS.

    Seriously, WTF is wrong with people???

  6. FashionablyEvil
    FashionablyEvil November 10, 2011 at 10:41 am |

    The photos with the NYT article are awful. Also, the signs saying “We are JoePa”? Are they really saying that they know that a colleague is sexually assaulting children and that they’re actively concealing that fact?

  7. nathan
    nathan November 10, 2011 at 10:41 am |

    College sports have gotten out of control, to the point where large institutions of learning like Penn St. have had their missions distorted. There’s no excuse for what happened there.

  8. norbizness
    norbizness November 10, 2011 at 10:43 am |

    Living Colour had a song about this… you might think I’m about to reference “Cult of Personality,” but in reality I’m thinking of “Time’s Up.”

  9. benvolio
    benvolio November 10, 2011 at 10:45 am |

    I watched a few minutes of the ‘we fired JoePa’ presser, and was surprised at how angry the questioners sounded about the sacking. So I guess that primed me to be not surprised at the student body’s rioting.

    It is possible to be a good coach who inspires millions as well as a cover-upper of child-rape. These things can coexist. But the consequences of the latter must not be overridden by the goodwill created by the former. If Paterno is a man with the integrity that everybody claims he is, he’ll take the consequences he has justly coming.

  10. Jack Smith
    Jack Smith November 10, 2011 at 10:46 am |

    it’s a culture that values that game over education, even at an institution of higher learning.

    According to the National Science Foundation, Penn State is a top 10 research institution. This is a stable ranking.

  11. Andie
    Andie November 10, 2011 at 10:53 am |

    I can’t believe that more people aren’t up in arms about the fact that he wasn’t fired SOONER.

    It annoys me that this kind of ‘But.. but.. he’s an athlete (coach, whathaveyou)!’ happens every effin’ time somebody in sports gets caught doing something abhorrent.

  12. jillian
    jillian November 10, 2011 at 10:58 am |

    does anyone know if college professors and staff are mandatory reporters? i know k-12 are in almost all states. Somehow i dont think “telling his supervisor” is fulfilling his “legal obligation”, especially if allegations are continuing after the first incident.

  13. Adaquinn
    Adaquinn November 10, 2011 at 11:03 am |

    I can’t help but to feel as if the victims, seeing this reaction must feel utterly betrayed by the whole University. People knew and said nothing, the abuse continued. Now that the truth has been exposed, the people who did nothing are getting punished and a there’s a rioting about it.

    When the person who abused me finally admitted what happened and was punished for it, I felt such a relief, like my pain was finally validated. People admitted that it was true, that it was wrong and that I wasn’t a “lying kid looking for attention.”

    When I read this story, I’d hoped that the victims felt the same sort of relief, now I worry that they will read about this reaction and never have that closure.

  14. fanshawe
    fanshawe November 10, 2011 at 11:04 am |

    I offer no defense of the students invovled in the riot/ralley. But, if only to slightly repair your faith in humanity, remember that Penn State is a big school. Really big. If there were 1000 students at the riot, then there were 44,000 students not at the riot.

    I’m an alum so I’m probably biased, but, until Saturday anyway, there were a lot of things I loved about the school and most of them had little to do with football. You’re free to be skeptical of that. I’m sure I would be if I was in your shoes. I’m not sure how I’ll feel about the place next week or next month; I know that right now I am very sad and angry.

  15. cy
    cy November 10, 2011 at 11:11 am |

    jillian, i’m not sure what the mandatory reporting rules are in PA but the attorney for the state said that JP had fulfilled his legal obligations in that regard (but while also suggesting a moral failure on his part).

  16. Han
    Han November 10, 2011 at 11:12 am |

    Excellent post. My news feed is blowing up with people trying to defend this scandal. My favorite comment so far?

    “‘These decisions were made after careful deliberations.’ Translation: ‘We succumbed to the media.’ Board of Trustees got scared and did something rash. I’m not surprised, as people in power almost always screw other people over.”

    wtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtf.

  17. konekon1nj4
    konekon1nj4 November 10, 2011 at 11:16 am |

    I’ve been listening to this unfold on NPR and it’s just hideous people’s reaction to it. He covered up possible child abuse. That should be enough to make people hesitant to express support in him. But as Jill says much more eloquently than I can, such is the cult of almighty football.

  18. norbizness
    norbizness November 10, 2011 at 11:21 am |

    CY: I believe you’re correct; there are no plans to prosecute COach Paterno for failure to report under their mandatory reporting statute (he only had to turn it over to his supervisor, the athletic director) or perjury at the grand jury level. The problem was that something happened in 1998 which led to Sandusky, the heir apparent, to unexpectedly retire at the age of 55. THe incident at issue took place in 2002, where we can all at least agree that pretty much everyone who matters was alerted to his predatory behavior. And then, Sandusky apparently had the run of campus facilities in his “charitable” work for the next 8-9 years, with no repercussions.

    To give you an idea of how much power accreted to the football coach whose school was pumping 50-75 million dollars per year into the West Pennsylvanian economy, the President of the University went to him about five years ago and asked Paterno to prepare for this contract to be his last, to transition power, etc. He was basically told to make like a hockey player and get the puck outta here, and hardly anyone blinked at the evisceration of a college president.

  19. LeftSidePositive
    LeftSidePositive November 10, 2011 at 11:21 am |

    I think it’s time for this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHRDfut2Vx0

    As it says, “Pope or Prince or Plumber, you’re a fucking mother fucker!” I think it should apply to football coaches as well!

  20. PT
    PT November 10, 2011 at 11:22 am |

    I am afraid don’t know much about Penn State, and couldn’t care less about their football team, so in the future this story could be the one mental image I have when see “Penn State” on a resume or LinkedIn profile. The university admin needs to get in front of this scandal quickly, and then follow up with a campaign to show Penn State’s value as an institute of higher learning.

  21. Rare Vos
    Rare Vos November 10, 2011 at 11:22 am |

    He covered up possible child abuse.

    There’s nothing “possible” about it. The assistant coach was observed raping young boys in the locker room and shower. And he got away with it for 9 YEARS. All due to this douche allowing him to do so.

  22. Thomas MacAulay Millar
    Thomas MacAulay Millar November 10, 2011 at 11:31 am |

    This isn’t about college football — though I’m not a fan of the revenue-generating college sports. This is about a culture that will excuse rape and aiding and abetting rapists for people who become popular for other things. Joe Paterno coaches football; Roman Polanski makes movies, Julian Assange gathers secrets, and they have their fans — rabid, unthinking myrmidons who will support them if they drug and rape children, cover up for their friends who do, or put their penises in sleeping women. Such a culture is one that doesn’t really think that rape is all that bad.

  23. Andie
    Andie November 10, 2011 at 11:32 am |

    Rare Vos: There’s nothing “possible” about it. The assistant coach was observed raping young boys in the locker room and shower. And he got away with it for 9 YEARS. All due to this douche allowing him to do so.

    Yeah.. their ‘action’ basically consisted of telling the guy ‘Uh.. if you’re gonna rape little boys, can you please not do it on campus? Mmmkay thanks’

    His ass should have been on the phone with the cops faster than you can say.. well, any two-word sentence would work here.

  24. jillian
    jillian November 10, 2011 at 11:34 am |

    cy: jillian,i’mnotsurewhatthemandatoryreportingrulesareinPAbuttheattorneyforthestatesaidthatJPhadfulfilledhislegalobligationsinthatregard(butwhilealsosuggestingamoralfailureonhispart).

    after i posted i did check and the state statue can be read two ways – as a coach and mandatory reporter,he is required to to make a oral report with 24 hours of knowledge to the department of public health. as a member of a school staff, he needs to report to the highest level of the establishment and then reporting becomes that persons responsibility. i have a feeling this this confusion and “buck-passing” clause will be brought up in the next legistlation. obviously, make the head person of the establishment aware of the abuse, but the primary witness and reporter should remain in charge of the situation.

    http://www.rainn.org/files/reportingdatabase/Pennsylvania/PennsylvaniaChildrenMandatoryReporting.pdf

  25. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub November 10, 2011 at 11:40 am |

    Even if he legally didn’t have to call the cops, it was a horrific ethical failure to NOT do so and allow other boys to be raped. You tell your higher up, and you tell them, “I am contacting the police about this.” AND THEN YOU FUCKING DO IT.

  26. Dank
    Dank November 10, 2011 at 11:41 am |

    I totally agree with the decision to fire Paterno, but I disagree with much of your post. People don’t support him so passionately just because he won football games – for years and years he really seemed like one of the good guys. He was won of the only top coaches who actually cared if his players got a good education. And I think that high school and college football can be a very good experience for young people. It teaches concepts like discipline and teamwork, and that sounds cliche but it really made a big impact on my life and the lives of my teammates. Paterno was always someone who (outwardly) fought to emphasize these parts of the game, in contrast to his longtime rival Bobby Bowdin, who was all about winning at any cost. And you have to keep in mind that the long term health issues from playing have come to light very recently.

    I agree that the protestors are misguided, but I can also understand why they have so much trouble wrapping their minds around reality. It is just so different from what they thought they knew that they can’t accept it.

  27. Anon21
    Anon21 November 10, 2011 at 11:45 am |

    What’s truly disgusting is the way that some Penn State students and alums are working so actively to make Joe Paterno into a victim of this series of events. You’ll hear again and again that Paterno was “crucified,” that this was a “witch hunt,” that there was a “lynch mob” atmosphere that led to the firing. All of this without the slightest apparent awareness that there are actual victims here. All of this without the slightest awareness that staying silent when you find out about serial child rape at your school and then erupting into mob violence when a child rape enabler is fired makes you look like a pack of fucking monsters.

  28. Echo Zen
    Echo Zen November 10, 2011 at 11:48 am |

    Yeah, when I saw the news headline this morning, I assumed students were rioting over how outraged they were that it took so long to oust Paterno. Then I clicked the story and my heart sank.

  29. bellacoker
    bellacoker November 10, 2011 at 12:08 pm |

    Wait, I think that this is more nuanced than y’all are making it out to be.

    What if someone knocked on your door one evening and told you that a person you have worked closely with for a very long time, someone who seemed stand-up, did their job well, was loyal to you, someone you liked and maybe even loved, had committed a crime. Would you want to believe that person?

    What if the person who told you was mistaken?

    If this guy met his “legal obligations” by reporting the report, not something he saw himself even, then why isn’t that enough? He likely would have preferred to do even less. And he’s not the police, he isn’t charged with investigating and finding out the facts.

    Do we want the same principle to be applied to less serious crimes? Do we want to live in a society where we’re legally and ethically accountable for not snitching on our friends and neighbors? My upstairs neighbor smokes pot, my other neighbor screams at her kids more than I am comfortable with, the adults in the family down the road don’t seem to speak English well. Who, if anyone, should I talk to the police about?

    I know that in our zeal to protect children it’s easy to say this guy should have done more, but isn’t that laying the failure of the entire system at the feet of this one guy who never agreed to be responsible for it? I don’t want someone to come in after the fact and put that burden on me or anyone else.

  30. Seth Eag
    Seth Eag November 10, 2011 at 12:14 pm |

    I would say football—or any team sport—is a much better, and more harmless, repository for our innate tribalist instincts than some other manifestations of said instinct.

  31. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub November 10, 2011 at 12:14 pm |

    You tell the person (or your employee) who witnessed a CRIME, “OK, let’s call the cops.” Because here’s the thing–it isn’t your job to do the investigation. You won’t get sued for calling the cops about an alleged CRIME. Especially if you do so with the witness. If I witnessed a crime at work, I wouldn’t tell my boss and leave it at that, HOWEVER, if I did tell my boss, she’d say, “OK, we’re calling the cops and you’re going to tell them what you told me.”

    We’re all so worried about lawsuits–what about those eight boys who were raped? If I was one of the rape survivors, I’d be quite tempted to sue the school for ALLOWING THIS TO HAPPEN. Because here’s the thing–rape isn’t anywhere near in the same universe as smoking weed. Comparing calling the cops about a sexual assault with “snitching” is gross and frankly vile.

  32. Jenny
    Jenny November 10, 2011 at 12:24 pm |

    Because in a society you have not only legal obligations, but moral and ethical obligations as well. The law tells us the minimum we must do, but we have a social contract that often requires us to do more than the law if we don’t want to face social approbation. The law does not require me to rescue a child drowning in a pool. But society expects me to do so and will punish me with social ostracization if I don’t. Maybe the law did not requre Joe Paterno to report the abuse to the police or make sure that someone else did, but society can and should expect him to do so, and it’s entirely appropriate that he faces social consquences for his failure to protect children.

    bellacoker: Wait,Ithinkthatthisismorenuancedthany’allaremakingitouttobe.Whatifsomeoneknockedonyourdooroneeveningandtoldyouthatapersonyouhaveworkedcloselywithforaverylongtime,someonewhoseemedstand-up,didtheirjobwell,wasloyaltoyou,someoneyoulikedandmaybeevenloved,hadcommittedacrime.Wouldyouwanttobelievethatperson?Whatifthepersonwhotoldyouwasmistaken?Ifthisguymethis“legalobligations”byreportingthereport,notsomethinghesawhimselfeven,thenwhyisn’tthatenough?Helikelywouldhavepreferredtodoevenless.Andhe’snotthepolice,heisn’tchargedwithinvestigatingandfindingoutthefacts.Dowewantthesameprincipletobeappliedtolessseriouscrimes?Dowewanttoliveinasocietywherewe’relegallyandethicallyaccountablefornotsnitchingonourfriendsandneighbors?Myupstairsneighborsmokespot,myotherneighborscreamsatherkidsmorethanIamcomfortablewith,theadultsinthefamilydowntheroaddon’tseemtospeakEnglishwell.Who,ifanyone,shouldItalktothepoliceabout?Iknowthatinourzealtoprotectchildrenit’seasytosaythisguyshouldhavedonemore,butisn’tthatlayingthefailureoftheentiresystematthefeetofthisoneguywhoneveragreedtoberesponsibleforit?Idon’twantsomeonetocomeinafterthefactandputthatburdenonmeoranyoneelse.

  33. Li
    Li November 10, 2011 at 12:28 pm |

    bellacoker: Do we want the same principle to be applied to less serious crimes? Do we want to live in a society where we’re legally and ethically accountable for not snitching on our friends and neighbors? My upstairs neighbor smokes pot, my other neighbor screams at her kids more than I am comfortable with, the adults in the family down the road don’t seem to speak English well. Who, if anyone, should I talk to the police about?

    The first example you listed doesn’t have a victim. The second isn’t a crime. The third isn’t a crime, and even if your insinuation that their not speaking English well suggests that they are undocumented immigrants, that kind of just reveals how you’re racist and additionally, crime with no victim.

    Child rape has child rape victims. Child rape is enabled by people refusing to take accusations of it seriously. Yes, if someone said someone I worked with was raping children, I’d take that seriously. Yes, i’d want it to be untrue. But I’d do something about it because the potential harm of not doing so is so massive.

  34. Brittany-Ann
    Brittany-Ann November 10, 2011 at 12:32 pm |

    bellacoker:
    Wait,Ithinkthatthisismorenuancedthany’allaremakingitouttobe.

    Whatifsomeoneknockedonyourdooroneeveningandtoldyouthatapersonyouhaveworkedcloselywithforaverylongtime,someonewhoseemedstand-up,didtheirjobwell,wasloyaltoyou,someoneyoulikedandmaybeevenloved,hadcommittedacrime.Wouldyouwanttobelievethatperson?

    Whatifthepersonwhotoldyouwasmistaken?

    Ifthisguymethis“legalobligations”byreportingthereport,notsomethinghesawhimselfeven,thenwhyisn’tthatenough?Helikelywouldhavepreferredtodoevenless.Andhe’snotthepolice,heisn’tchargedwithinvestigatingandfindingoutthefacts.

    Dowewantthesameprincipletobeappliedtolessseriouscrimes?Dowewanttoliveinasocietywherewe’relegallyandethicallyaccountablefornotsnitchingonourfriendsandneighbors?Myupstairsneighborsmokespot,myotherneighborscreamsatherkidsmorethanIamcomfortablewith,theadultsinthefamilydowntheroaddon’tseemtospeakEnglishwell.Who,ifanyone,shouldItalktothepoliceabout?

    Iknowthatinourzealtoprotectchildrenit’seasytosaythisguyshouldhavedonemore,butisn’tthatlayingthefailureoftheentiresystematthefeetofthisoneguywhoneveragreedtoberesponsibleforit?Idon’twantsomeonetocomeinafterthefactandputthatburdenonmeoranyoneelse.

    Are you serious? At its most basic level, this is about integrity. This isn’t about someone smoking pot, this is child molestation-actual people were being harmed here. That’s a whole different monster.

    When you’re a leader, you are responsible for the people under your charge. if you fail to stop your people from doing actual, real harm to others, you are a failure. And you have no business being a leader. Period.

  35. Andie
    Andie November 10, 2011 at 12:34 pm |

    bellacoker: Do we want the same principle to be applied to less serious crimes? Do we want to live in a society where we’re legally and ethically accountable for not snitching on our friends and neighbors? My upstairs neighbor smokes pot, my other neighbor screams at her kids more than I am comfortable with, the adults in the family down the road don’t seem to speak English well. Who, if anyone, should I talk to the police about?

    This is a bullshit line of reasoning because your comparisons make no sense. Pot smoking – illegal, yes, but lacks a direct victim. Yelling at kids COULD be an indicator of abuse, but not necessarily evidence. X2 to Li’s comments about the example of neighbors not speaking english.

    None of these equate to being told that someone WALKED IN ON A COACH HAVING SEX WITH A CHILD and not running your ass to the police ASAP.

  36. sabrina
    sabrina November 10, 2011 at 12:38 pm |

    Dank:
    ItotallyagreewiththedecisiontofirePaterno,butIdisagreewithmuchofyourpost.Peopledon’tsupporthimsopassionatelyjustbecausehewonfootballgames–foryearsandyearshereallyseemedlikeoneofthegoodguys.Hewaswonoftheonlytopcoacheswhoactuallycaredifhisplayersgotagoodeducation.AndIthinkthathighschoolandcollegefootballcanbeaverygoodexperienceforyoungpeople.Itteachesconceptslikedisciplineandteamwork,andthatsoundsclichebutitreallymadeabigimpactonmylifeandthelivesofmyteammates.Paternowasalwayssomeonewho(outwardly)foughttoemphasizethesepartsofthegame,incontrasttohislongtimerivalBobbyBowdin,whowasallaboutwinningatanycost.Andyouhavetokeepinmindthatthelongtermhealthissuesfromplayinghavecometolightveryrecently.

    Iagreethattheprotestorsaremisguided,butIcanalsounderstandwhytheyhavesomuchtroublewrappingtheirmindsaroundreality.Itisjustsodifferentfromwhattheythoughttheyknewthattheycan’tacceptit.

    there are plenty of other organizations that support team work and discipline that are actually educationally beneficial. Speech and Debate, Youth and Government, Model United Nations, Mock trial, 4h, girl scouts. These are all things that I participated in throughout my education and taught those exact same lessons, and guess what, not a one of them resulted in brain damage, we were encouraged to actually get good grades, and go to college from those organizations (Speech and Debate is paying for my undergrad) and taught how to function as a human being. Sports gives you brain damage and teaches you how to be violent toward one another, real great lessons that I want to be supporting with my tax money right there.

  37. Seth Eag
    Seth Eag November 10, 2011 at 12:44 pm |

    …ok? And beating someone is much better than killing them. That’s sort of a non-argument.

    I wasn’t really attempting to make much of an counter-argument. I agree with most of the post. It was just a thought…

  38. Thomas MacAulay Millar
    Thomas MacAulay Millar November 10, 2011 at 12:45 pm |

    Bellacoker, your attempt to distract from the enormity of what happened by arguing analogy to other circumstances fails because the enormity of what happened here is all about the clarity of the circumstances. It’s not like someone noticed improprieties in the guy’s reimbursement requests, in which case I think we’d all accept an attempt to let him explain or even resign quietly. Somebody walked in on a grown man fucking a child. There’s no morally ambiguous analogy for that. There’s no good explanation, no proper purpose and no extenuating circumstance.

    Take a minute and think about this before you double down on that position.

  39. Tom Foolery
    Tom Foolery November 10, 2011 at 12:48 pm |

    If this guy met his “legal obligations” by reporting the report, not something he saw himself even, then why isn’t that enough?

    In the situation you’re describing, it sounds like Paterno was hoping the allegations were false, and he gambled that they were by sticking to the bare minimum obligations to report what he’d heard. As it turns out, he gambled incorrectly, and so he gets fired. What’s the problem?

  40. LeftSidePositive
    LeftSidePositive November 10, 2011 at 12:49 pm |

    The New Yorker’s Amy Davidson has a very good piece on this very point:

    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2011/11/joe-paternos-tears.html

  41. Nell
    Nell November 10, 2011 at 1:08 pm |

    The comparison of the Penn State scandal to the pedophile priest scandals of the Catholic Church and similar problems found in Boy Scout organizations is indeed apt. In all of these cases, we have an insular, hierarchal, all-male organization whose leaders acted to protect the institution at all costs.

    It is telling that the sordid crimes of Sandusky (and other Penn State actors) were finally brought into the light of day by a woman — the principal of Central Mountain High School (where Sandusky was a volunteer football coach) who, immediately upon learning of Sandusky’s misdeeds, reported him to the proper authorities leading to the grand jury investigation which eventually brought him down.

  42. Robyn
    Robyn November 10, 2011 at 1:14 pm |

    Great article! God help the person if I ever catch them violating a child.

  43. bellacoker
    bellacoker November 10, 2011 at 1:16 pm |

    We all have to balance competing ethical obligations all the time, let’s at least do each other the courtesy of admitting that it’s difficult.

    I’m not saying what Paterno did was right, I’m saying it was understandable.

  44. Jenny
    Jenny November 10, 2011 at 1:21 pm |

    @BellaCoker Of all the ethical and moral amiguities that exist in the world, I would think the moral duty to do all you can to stop child rape would be the most black and white issue you could find.

  45. Li
    Li November 10, 2011 at 1:23 pm |

    bellacoker: We all have to balance competing ethical obligations all the time, let’s at least do each other the courtesy of admitting that it’s difficult.

    I’m not saying what Paterno did was right, I’m saying it was understandable.

    Let us please have a discussion that centres Joe Paterno and not the victims of child rape. That seems like a very good plan.

  46. Andie
    Andie November 10, 2011 at 1:23 pm |

    bellacoker: We all have to balance competing ethical obligations all the time, let’s at least do each other the courtesy of admitting that it’s difficult.

    I’m not saying what Paterno did was right, I’m saying it was understandable.

    Um sorry. No. It’s not. Again, this isn’t someone smoking a little pot. Where is the competing ethical obligation? How would calling the police on a child-rapist, complete with eyewitnesses be unethical?

  47. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub November 10, 2011 at 1:32 pm |

    I’m not saying what Paterno did was right, I’m saying it was understandable.

    No. Not to the survivors of Sandusky’s rapes it isn’t.

    And really? WTF? There wouldn’t be this hand-wringing if McQeary had witnessed a mugging. Hell, I’d bet the mortgage he’d have called 911 ASAP, or at the very least Paterno would have told him, “Well, we’re calling the cops and you’re telling them what you told me.” But suddenly it’s all so difficult and complicated with competing ethical considerations when it’s rape.

    I mean, really, why don’t you fucking tell it to friends of mine, who have survived shit like this, and who were royally fucked up by it? You’ll have to forgive me for being all out of nice when it comes to this.

  48. Katya
    Katya November 10, 2011 at 1:39 pm |

    I really would like to know what possible ethical obligation could compete with the obligation to protect children from being raped, let alone what obligation Paterno had that could so compete.

    One of the most telling comments I heard on the radio was that Paterno was known for not only checking up on his players’ academic progress, but following up on any problems or issues. So why didn’t he bother to follow up on the Sandusky matter? Why was he content to let it slide after telling the athletic director? Why were his players worthy of his ongoing care and concern but a little boy being raped by a grown man was not?

    What Paterno and every other official at Penn State who knew about Sandusky did was inexcusable. They didn’t even bother to find out the name of the kid who was raped. He was just the boy in the shower. He didn’t matter. Only their image mattered.

  49. Rodeo
    Rodeo November 10, 2011 at 2:06 pm |

    My problem is with the janitor in 1998 and Mike McQueary who both WALKED IN ON SANDUSKY RAPING BOYS and then WALKED BACK OUT. Anything Joe Pa should have done pales in comparison to their moral cowardice.

    And for what it’s worth, I would NOT have called the cops. Cops protect hierarchy at the expense of rape victims all the time, and I’m not going to be complicit in re-victimizing someone. I’ve rejected job offers that included mandatory reporting duties because of this.

  50. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub November 10, 2011 at 2:10 pm |

    Why yes, leaving it to the University instead of law enforcement worked out swimmingly, didn’t it?

  51. Poeschl
    Poeschl November 10, 2011 at 2:13 pm |

    Joe Paterno and other officials implicated in the Penn State child rape case, even if they are not criminally indicted, could still face substantial civil liabilities, according to this article at http://abovethelaw.com/2011/11/joe-paterno-better-lawyer-up.

    So the victims in this case might get some justice from Paterno after all.

  52. Andie
    Andie November 10, 2011 at 2:15 pm |

    Rodeo: My problem is with the janitor in 1998 and Mike McQueary who both WALKED IN ON SANDUSKY RAPING BOYS and then WALKED BACK OUT.

    This. You would think walking in on something like that would warrant a physical confrontation of the ‘getoffthatlittleboyyoutwistedfuck’ sort. Not an ‘Oh geeze. I need to go think, but as you were, gentlemen’ response.

    Anyone that had knowledge of this needs to be fired and vilified, regardless of their place in the heirarchy.

  53. Rodeo
    Rodeo November 10, 2011 at 2:27 pm |

    Exactly, Andie. You stop the person raping the child, for god’s sake how hard could it that be? I sincerely doubt you would need to get physical at all since the element of surprise would do most of the work for you.
    I don’t have a better alternative response to the police. Such an alternative would require the involvement of the community rejecting rape culture. Communities tend not to reject rape culture, so police force will hyper-reflect that.

  54. Lolagirl
    Lolagirl November 10, 2011 at 2:35 pm |

    Nell: The comparison of the Penn State scandal to the pedophile priest scandals of the Catholic Church and similar problems found in Boy Scout organizations is indeed apt. In all of these cases, we have an insular, hierarchal, all-male organization whose leaders acted to protect the institution at all costs. .

    No big surprise then that a Catholic University (also with a mega-million dollar football program) would also cover up and refuse to act on rape allegations occurring on campus.

    Between upholding their almighty reputation and keeping the money rolling these institutions will continue to justfy their inaction as long as they are allowed to get away with it.

  55. Eric
    Eric November 10, 2011 at 3:16 pm |

    You know what the serial child molester was doing today? First he went to Dick’s Sporting Goods to get a new tread mill and then he was going to Sears, just out about enjoying his day….true story…I live in State College and I’ve heard from multiple eyewitnesses. I’m not defending with JoePa, just a little perplexed about how this whole issue is being dealt with…

  56. victoria
    victoria November 10, 2011 at 3:28 pm |

    Davey D has an interesting blog post contrasting the Penn State student protests defending Paterno with the one at UC Berkeley where students peacefully protesting tuition hikes got beaten by riot cops.

  57. Katya
    Katya November 10, 2011 at 3:48 pm |

    Rodeo:
    Exactly,Andie.Youstopthepersonrapingthechild,forgod’ssakehowhardcoulditthatbe?Isincerelydoubtyouwouldneedtogetphysicalatallsincetheelementofsurprisewoulddomostoftheworkforyou.
    Idon’thaveabetteralternativeresponsetothepolice.Suchanalternativewouldrequiretheinvolvementofthecommunityrejectingrapeculture.Communitiestendnottorejectrapeculture,sopoliceforcewillhyper-reflectthat.

    Maybe I’m less cynical, but I think the cops would have been of more help. We’re talking about a case in which an adult witnessed another adult actually having sex with a child. This is not a he-said-she-said; indeed, it does not hinge on the credibility of the victim at all. It also involves pedophilia, which law enforcement often gets really het up about. I bet there was at least one DA who would have loved to go after a high-profile defendant like Sandusky. At the very least, the cops could not have handled it any worse than the University did, and going to the police would have made it harder for the university to sweep under the carpet.

  58. Katya
    Katya November 10, 2011 at 3:50 pm |

    Also, I would bet that just by walking in, McQueary stopped that particular rape. What he didn’t do was stop any of the future rapes that occurred because no one at Penn State was willing to do more than ask Sandusky to take his raping elsewhere.

  59. Rare Vos
    Rare Vos November 10, 2011 at 3:53 pm |

    I’m not saying what Paterno did was right, I’m saying it was understandable.

    Stay away from children, please.

  60. EG
    EG November 10, 2011 at 3:55 pm |

    jillian: does anyone know if college professors and staff are mandatory reporters?

    I’m almost certain we’re not. For one thing, I think that you have be told if you are, and nobody has ever said anything to me about reporting jack, and for another, unlike k-12 teachers, we’re very rarely dealing with minors.

    bellacoker: What if someone knocked on your door one evening and told you that a person you have worked closely with for a very long time, someone who seemed stand-up, did their job well, was loyal to you, someone you liked and maybe even loved, had committed a crime. Would you want to believe that person?

    If somebody knocked on my door one evening and told me that they had seen a close colleague of mine raping a child, I would ask them for details, and then ask them if they had called the cops yet, and if not, why not, and here’s the fucking phone. You know why? I have a zero-tolerance policy on child-rapists. I don’t see any nuance when it comes to raping children. I would be sad and angry that someone I thought I knew, trusted, and respected could be such a vile human being, but I have no problem drawing a hard line around the rape of children.

    bellacoker: If this guy met his “legal obligations” by reporting the report, not something he saw himself even, then why isn’t that enough?

    Because he helped to shield a child rapist. How are you even asking this question?

    bellacoker: Do we want the same principle to be applied to less serious crimes?

    What does that have to do with anything? We’re not talking about a less serious crime. We’re talking about raping children.

    Do we want to live in a society where we’re legally and ethically accountable for not snitching on our friends and neighbors?

    I do not want to live in a society in which somebody sees one of the most vulnerable members of that society, a child, being raped by one of the more powerful members of that society, and helps the rapist get away with it. That is the kind of society I do not want to live in. I do not want to live in the kind of society in which calling the police when you have been alerted to the fact that somebody has raped a child is considered “snitching.” This is not like tattling to your first-grade teacher that it was Adam who didn’t put the crayons away. I do not want to live in a society in which any action short of “calling the police” is considered acceptable when made aware of the presence of a child-rapist.

    My upstairs neighbor smokes pot,

    Does he rape children? No? OK, then. Seeing as I don’t think pot should be illegal, I don’t care.

    my other neighbor screams at her kids more than I am comfortable with

    Does she rape them? No? OK, then. Your comfort level is not relevant. What is relevant is the children’s safety.

    the adults in the family down the road don’t seem to speak English well.

    What the fuck does this have to do with anything? Not only is not speaking English well not raping children, not only is it not a crime of any kind at all, but it bears no relation whatsoever to any ethical or moral question. Do you know what’s not like not speaking English well? Raping children.

    Who, if anyone, should I talk to the police about?

    The person who is raping children.

    bellacoker: We all have to balance competing ethical obligations all the time, let’s at least do each other the courtesy of admitting that it’s difficult.

    What the fuck is so difficult about calling the police on a child rapist. You seem to have a problem with actually articulating the crime we’re talking about here, which is why I keep bolding it. I’m concerned that you may have actually forgotten what it is that Paterno helped to cover up. It is not difficult to make the moral decision to prioritize raped children over football, institutional loyalty, warm and friendly feelings toward a colleague, or anything else, for that matter. It’s actually pretty fucking easy. How have you made two separate comments without actually naming the crime that Paterno covered up? It’s not pot-smoking. It’s not yelling. It’s not speaking English poorly. It”s not littering, or jaywalking, or tagging, or shoplifting. It’s actually raping children. What is it that you find morally ambiguous or conflicting about the decision to call the cops in order to stop somebody from raping children?

    I was watching a news segment yesterday on Paterno, and he was quoted as saying “This is one of the great regrets of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I should have done more. I will spend the rest of my life trying to help–[here, for a moment, I thought he was going to do or say something respectable, like "victims of sexual violence, and as a gesture, to begin with, I will donate X million dollars to whatever"]–the University.”

    Yep. Because that’s the entity that’s suffered the most from his decision not to report a child-rapist. The University. I guess we know what he felt his “competing ethical claim” was.

  61. Foglet
    Foglet November 10, 2011 at 4:04 pm |

    *Crosses Penn State off her short list for grad school applications*

  62. Beauzeaux
    Beauzeaux November 10, 2011 at 4:14 pm |

    Not a child molester — a child raper. This disgusting excuse for a human was SEEN raping a child and nothing was done to stop it. It’s hearbreaking because the message to Sandusky was “No one will stop me” and the message to the child was “No one will help me.”

    The people who covered for him should be fired and then flogged. No pity for them AT ALL.

  63. LeftSidePositive
    LeftSidePositive November 10, 2011 at 4:20 pm |

    EG@65:

    Epic takedown.

    **applause**

    I have nothing more to say.

  64. Politicalguineapig
    Politicalguineapig November 10, 2011 at 4:23 pm |

    Most sports fans are used to defending rapists, so the reaction of the students at Penn is hardly a surprise.

  65. CBrachyrhynchos
    CBrachyrhynchos November 10, 2011 at 4:28 pm |

    It’s my opinion that as long as Penn State Athletics hosts camps and clinics for minors, they should be bound by mandatory reporting laws protecting minors. Saying on the one hand, “send your children to our campus to learn from our coaches” but also “we’re not bound by laws protecting children” strikes me as deeply inconsistent. I suspect that if the failure-to-report case against the head of athletics and the vice president fails due to a technicality, the law might be changed.

    But yeah, the damning thing for me is that failed to report, had Sandusky turn in his keys and let him work with children on regional campus for another six years.

  66. Thomas MacAulay Millar
    Thomas MacAulay Millar November 10, 2011 at 4:34 pm |

    It’s actually kind of hard to think of a coverup with less moral ambiguity. The writers of Dexter have created a fictional environment where even serial killing presents more moral ambiguity than that faced by the Penn State athletic department from 1998 until Sandusky’s arrest.

  67. Calderon
    Calderon November 10, 2011 at 4:38 pm |

    Jill said:

    From what I’ve read, McQueary did want to go to the cops, but Joe essentially talked him out of it and convinced him to go to Penn State officials instead.

    Jill, could you please provide a cite or link for that? Based on what I’ve read my opinion is that McQueary’s culpability is worse than Paterno’s, but if you’re correct that would change my view. Thanks

  68. cover_n_conceal
    cover_n_conceal November 10, 2011 at 4:40 pm |

    “we’re talking about institutions that placed the end-game ahead of any individuals”

    That problem is not isolated to Penn State or the Catholic church.

    Allegations of ignored rapes, unsafe working conditions at Oregon Youth Authority

  69. Irene
    Irene November 10, 2011 at 4:44 pm |

    I have to ask, Who sees a CHILD being assaulted and doesn’t say anything at the scene? Perhaps I am mistaken, having never been in that situation, but my thought response is to protect the child/beat the attacker. Just me.

  70. Kathleen
    Kathleen November 10, 2011 at 4:50 pm |

    In defense of Penn State students (not these rioting ones, of course…) many *other* students petitioned for the University president who participated in the cover-up to resign, and have made clear their desire to have the whole chain of rotters exposed and punished.

    As now seems, thankfully, inevitable. But too late for kids like that boy — I keep thinking of the *size* of a 10 year old kid’s body. What cruelty.

  71. Kathleen
    Kathleen November 10, 2011 at 4:53 pm |

    Irene — right?!?!?!?!?!?!

  72. Calderon
    Calderon November 10, 2011 at 4:53 pm |

    Jill — thanks. The NYT article is somewhat ambiguous as to whether they are relying on just the grand jury report or additional info. The GJ report, at least as I read it, does not indicate that Paterno discouraged McQueary from contacting the police. Maybe we’ll see if additional information, or a clarification, comes out.

  73. CBrachyrhynchos
    CBrachyrhynchos November 10, 2011 at 4:57 pm |

    Just as a point of fact, PA reporting law protects the confidentiality of wistleblowers in most cases. Even if McQueary had feared retaliation, there were ways he could have tipped off the appropriate authorities and initiated an investigation.

    There’s a ton of corruption all around, including an apparent cover-up by a DA. We know of three different reports of probable rape, including one by a parent directly to the police, that went nowhere on this guy over the last 13 years.

  74. Ruchama
    Ruchama November 10, 2011 at 5:00 pm |

    Penn State students are also planning a candlelight vigil for the victims tomorrow night. So far, over 5,000 people have said on facebook that they’ll attend.

  75. Sid
    Sid November 10, 2011 at 5:06 pm |

    Jill:
    Fortherecord,I’mactuallyabigfanofteamsports—Idothinktheyteachmanypeoplevaluablelifeskills,andthey’refun.Butnotsportswhichposesignificantriskofpermanentbraindamage.

    My memory might be hazy, but haven’t you said on here in the past how much a fan of boxing you are?

  76. EG
    EG November 10, 2011 at 5:11 pm |

    Thanks, LSP. For my own sanity, though, I have decided that bellacoker is clearly some kind of performance artist creating a stir, or perhaps a sociology researcher studying how people on the internet react to total blithering assholes.

    Otherwise, we have met yet another person who needs this chart.

    Kathleen: I keep thinking of the *size* of a 10 year old kid’s body.

    You know, it was just this that brought home to me how terrible child abuse was, and also that some of the things that had been done to me were not all right. I had been babysitting for these two little girls, 4 and 5, for a couple years, and one day I looked down at the older sister and just realized how little she was compared to me. And I thought back on the times when she had gotten on my nerves and realized that it wasn’t just that she hadn’t done anything to merit me hurting her; it was that it actually was not possible for a five-year-old to do anything to a grown woman or man, who supposedly has greater self-control and perspective, that would justify some of how my father had behaved toward me when I had been her age. She just didn’t have that much power, and she was far too vulnerable and small. She was small and relatively fragile; I was big and relatively strong, and even if I didn’t mean to, I could hurt her, and that was not an acceptable chance to take. It really opened my eyes (I would never have raised a hand to her before then, either, of course; it’s just that before that, I had made excuses for my father along the lines of “Well, I was really bratty.”).

  77. EG
    EG November 10, 2011 at 5:13 pm |

    Ruchama: Penn State students are also planning a candlelight vigil for the victims tomorrow night. So far, over 5,000 people have said on facebook that they’ll attend.

    Good. That is heartening. I hope they receive as much coverage as their asshole classmates.

  78. samanthab
    samanthab November 10, 2011 at 6:29 pm |

    Uh Rodeo, that’s kind of fucked up logic there- the cops often preserve cultural hierarchies at the expense of rape victims so you should, too. If an individual wants to find other ways to take a stand for rape victims due to that belief, then by all means, bring a rape crisis center into the picture. But to fucking do nothing makes you morally complicit. End of story.

  79. Brian Schlosser
    Brian Schlosser November 10, 2011 at 6:39 pm |

    Paterno’s firing is a good start. Every person in Penn State’s administration who had any knowledge of this horror needs to be canned and prosecuted if possible, even if it takes a special prosecutor to root them all out. Penn State is a public land grant college. Readers in PA need to contact their state reps and insist that if the university doesn’t clean their house, the state needs to do it for them. This story is sickening beyond belief.

    We should also consider pressuring the NCAA to get involved. If their fucking football team was so important that they had to cover up CHILDREN BEING RAPED to protect it, then they don’t deserve to have a team.

  80. Rodeo
    Rodeo November 10, 2011 at 8:43 pm |

    Oh, fighting amongst ourselves rather than getting pissed that the agency agency charged with protecting citizens is one of the most corrupt, violent, oppressive institutions. Nice priorities, samanthab. Can we take it on face value that no one here is on Penn State’s side, even if we have different capacities for empathy or problem solving? No, I would never involve the cops in any situation like this (unless the survivor specifically said that’s what they wanted). Nothing about that suggests I would do nothing. Think creatively.

    I also completely agree with bellacoker’s assessment of JoePa’s reaction. Perfectly understandable. The guy ran a camp for at-risk youth, AND he coached football. If we know anything about the patriarchy, we know that some people count, and others don’t. Football players count, coaches’ kids count, grandkids count, PSU counts. Kids who have already been victimized by the system? Well, that’s not worth ruining someone’s reputation over, especially since JoePa was able to usher him into early retirement. (I mean, this guy retired at 55, the peak of his career, after winning awards for the defensive strategies he designed, and yet no other school tried to recruit him? This is a coach who brought boys with him when he traveled to out of state games, this had to be an open secret within the NCAA.)

    Maybe understandable is the wrong word. It’s not like I have empathy for that response. But it’s victim-blaming 101: he’s a nice guy who made a mistake and probably promised not to do it again. People say that about rapists all the time.

  81. Brittany-Ann
    Brittany-Ann November 10, 2011 at 9:09 pm |

    One problem with your post, Rodeo. The victims here were CHILDREN. The police should absolutely be involved. Child predators need to be incarcerated, as should anyone who aided and abetted them.

    I can’t believe this is actually up for debate.

  82. amyr
    amyr November 10, 2011 at 9:51 pm |

    My husband and a number of my friends went to Penn State, and for the record their only concern and grief is for the little boys, not for the football team in spite of being sports fans. The students who are complaining and rioting are technicallly adults but are really still kids, and hopefully someday they’ll see that their anger is completely misdirected. But for now let’s please acknowledge that it’s a huge school with a lot of smart, moral people who are just as appalled as the rest of us.

  83. Anon21
    Anon21 November 10, 2011 at 9:52 pm |

    Yeah, count me in as thinking not going to the police in a situation like this is fucked. Yes, the cops can be terrible, but when it comes to child sex predators, incarceration is the only option. And the only institution that can incarcerate is the criminal justice system. You don’t have to endorse the police force as an institution in any way to say that sometimes it’s the only place you can go for help with particular problems.

  84. DonnaL
    DonnaL November 10, 2011 at 10:03 pm |

    I know I’m only the 10,000th person to ask this, but I’ll never begin to understand how how any human being could see what McQueary saw — the ongoing rape of a 10-year old child — and not try to stop it, unless they were afraid for their own life or physical safety if they intervened. Which seems rather unlikely, given that this guy was then a 28-year old ex-quarterback. Not even to shout “hey, what’s going on,” and go pull the child away and call the cops? He was afraid for his job with the school? Just not good enough. How could anyone even take the time to think about that? And then to walk away and leave that little boy there, so he could ask his father for advice? Knowing that the child had seen him?

    Yes, he reported it, which I guess is something. (Not much.) And I believe he told Paterno exactly what he saw. After all, the grand jury report says he told Paterno what he saw, and says that they found him “extremely credible.” The report makes no comment at all on Paterno’s credibility. To me, that silence speaks volumes. If he were Joe Shmo instead of Joe Paterno, I have little doubt that he would have been indicted along with his two so-called “bosses.” And I can’t take the way some people are acting as if what he *admits* he remembers is no big deal. He remembers being told that there was fooling around? “horseplay?” “inappropriate” behavior that was “perhaps” sexual? What other kind of inappropriate behavior could it have been? This wasn’t enough? Not that I believe for a moment that that’s all he was told.

    As for the rioting students, I’m horrified. Pathetic. Repulsive. I’m glad to hear there are others planning a candlelight vigil (for the victims, I hope, not for poor St. Joseph the Martyr). The only light moment I’ve had about this whole thing was when I tried to imagine my son (who’s in college) taking to the streets and rioting because the University of Chicago football coach had been fired. As he confirmed to me on the phone this afternoon, he has no idea what that person’s name even is.

    Anyway, I don’t have much room left in my heart for sympathy for anyone involved but the children who were victimized, and I don’t have much respect for anyone who does. . I’m glad that more of those victims are beginning to come forward now. It isn’t so easy to do that, I’m sure, even years later. This certainly isn’t about me, but long ago, in what seems like another lifetime, I was sexually abused by an authority figure — in my case, an endocrinologist I was sent to because I wasn’t growing or showing any signs of approaching adolescence — over a period of years from the time I was 11 until I was 14 or 15. And I was too embarrassed and ashamed to tell a soul about it (I certainly didn’t report it) for another 20 years or so. I still feel incredibly stupid sometimes for “allowing” it to happen based on his telling me that what was going on was all part of the examination. Maybe if I’d been born 20 years later it all would have been obvious to me. But it wasn’t. I was a little kid, barely 4 feet tall back then; he was a tall, patrician, WASPy doctor in a white coat. A small part of me still wants to believe that there’s some rational explanation for all of it. And I used to tell myself it had no long term effects on me, until I suddenly made the connection that that’s why for the next 30 years or so I had a near-pathological fear of taking my clothes off for a doctor.

    I feel a little guilty, too. If only I hadn’t been so embarrassed, and had said something to my mother, who was out there in the waiting room — and asked me once “what took so long? what was going on in there?” and I said nothing — then maybe he could have been stopped. Not just for me, but for others. The man lived to be in his 90′s; I noticed his obituary not so many years ago OK, I admit it; I was relieved when he died, even after all those years), and God knows how long he continued to practice and how many other vulnerable children he victimized. I couldn’t possibly have been the only one, right? I still wonder sometimes how he could have been so sure I wouldn’t tell. Of course, I already had a secret I’d learned to keep, but he didn’t know that.

    In the end, though, I’ve learned not to be so harsh with myself most of the time. I was 11 at the beginning, for God’s sake. A little child. When my son was 11, he was still my baby, basically. (Well, he still is, but don’t let him know I said that!) But how someone like McQueary, a grown man who saw what he saw and walked away, and all the others, can sleep at night, I don’t know. Sandusky himself, I don’t care. Apparently he and his wife have been seen walking around town the last few days as if nothing had happened. If I saw him, I’d spit in his face. At least.

  85. CBrachyrhynchos
    CBrachyrhynchos November 10, 2011 at 11:10 pm |

    I see McQueary as a cautionary tale myself. He grew up playing football in the same city as Paterno and Sandusky, was recruited by them into college ball, and returned to study coaching under Paterno. It’s possible, although I can find no confirmation, that McQueary attended camps hosted by Paterno and Sandusky.

    People often don’t make the right decisions when there’s a heavy emotional investment on the line. It took a few years of therapy and her death before I could comfortably say that my grandmother was abusive to me (and much worse to my sister), but I have little problem writing off assholes I’ve know for less than a year.

    First of all, PA mandatory reporting law needs to be changed so there’s no question about authority. You see it, you report it, and maybe you tell your boss. If you don’t personally report, you go to jail.

    And secondly, college sports needs to be ripped out and replanted in order to make professionalism more important than tradition and cults of personality.

  86. CBrachyrhynchos
    CBrachyrhynchos November 10, 2011 at 11:32 pm |

    To be clear, I think McQueary made a bunch of really bad decisions, and he shouldn’t be coaching because of them. I also think that the problem of abuse coverups is much deeper than individuals making bad decisions.

  87. librarygoose
    librarygoose November 10, 2011 at 11:32 pm |

    bellacoker: We all have to balance competing ethical obligations all the time, let’s at least do each other the courtesy of admitting that it’s difficult.

    I will never agree that it is difficult to understand that child rape is wrong and needs to be reported and punished (possibly with blood).

  88. sabrina
    sabrina November 11, 2011 at 12:29 am |

    jill,
    and when team sports is no longer used as a get out of jail free card for rape and abuse of women I can see adding team sports to acceptable activity that is privately funded at a university. As it stands now, team sports even in high school have become a breeding ground for rape and abuse, and I see no way out of that.

  89. Politicalguineapig
    Politicalguineapig November 11, 2011 at 12:34 am |

    Sabrina: Ditto. Or they provide a target rich environment for a predator. We’ve had a bit of a problem with (girl’s) volleyball coaches lately in my state. It was a dark day when my high school added team sports, and I refuse to acknowledge homecoming.

  90. karak
    karak November 11, 2011 at 1:53 am |

    This whole mess is just filled with people that need to be punched in the face with a tire iron.

    And, of course, let the news not cover the victims of rape and assault, their trauma, because rape victims aren’t real people even when they’re little children.

    I hope that entire multimillion dollar football team gets to redirect their funds to the survivors of this man’s abuse. Jesus.

  91. machina
    machina November 11, 2011 at 3:13 am |

    The intellectual resources required to discern between the competing ethical concerns of “anal rape of a child” with “Go Team!” are insignificant. The inability to discern these differences is informative.

  92. Hibernia86
    Hibernia86 November 11, 2011 at 8:05 am |

    Nell:
    ThecomparisonofthePennStatescandaltothepedophilepriestscandalsoftheCatholicChurchandsimilarproblemsfoundinBoyScoutorganizationsisindeedapt.Inallofthesecases,wehaveaninsular,hierarchal,all-maleorganizationwhoseleadersactedtoprotecttheinstitutionatallcosts.

    ItistellingthatthesordidcrimesofSandusky(andotherPennStateactors)werefinallybroughtintothelightofdaybyawoman—theprincipalofCentralMountainHighSchool(whereSanduskywasavolunteerfootballcoach)who,immediatelyuponlearningofSandusky’smisdeeds,reportedhimtotheproperauthoritiesleadingtothegrandjuryinvestigationwhicheventuallybroughthimdown.

    Nell, most every man outside of Penn State is horrified at what happened. It is not uncommon for men to report rape when they find out about it and rapists often more likely to receive vigilanty justice from the male relatives of the victim than the victim herself. Not to mention the fact that sexual abuse has been done by both genders sometimes from a mother to her own child. So please don’t assumptions about a person’s views or decisions based on their gender.

  93. Micah Fuge
    Micah Fuge November 11, 2011 at 10:13 am |

    Who here knows about the sex-slave trade in Russia and other parts of the world? What have you all done to stop it? That’s what I thought.

    I’m not saying that Joe Paterno is a good person. Just a person who deserves to be punished and criticized. Not demonized. By making him seem inhuman and pretending that he is the devil, you automatically make people who know him and have seen that he is a human freak out. People who cheered for him and loved him need to know that is a person. Not that he is a monster. He is not a monster. He is a person that knew about a crime and did too little about it. And then after that criticism lasts for a couple hours, we should be angry at Sandusky for, I don’t know, maybe at least as much time as we are mad at JoePa. That would at least be a friggin’ start. (Seriously, think about what Sandusky did to the school; to the charity; to schools and charities in general; to the parents, friends, and families of the victims; to the victims themselves; to Sandusky’s own friends and family; to humanity as a whole. It is unbelievable what Sandusky did, and he has practically gotten a pass because it’s all about JoePa. If people keep rashly defending Joe, just let it go. There are bigger battles to fight.)

  94. Friday Linkfest – the mostly WTF edition « The inconstant musings of the mostly medicated

    [...] to the truly hardcore WTF! entries in this week’s linkfest. Jill at Feministe has written a couple of posts about the Penn State issue so far and as a consummately fantabulous writer she tells it [...]

  95. Cooker
    Cooker November 11, 2011 at 12:10 pm |

    Drove up the main street in State College today…there’s a sign outside Champs (a popular local sports bar) with a sign reading “Thank you Joe Pa. You deserved better.” They can be reached at champssportsgrill@hotmail.com if you are interested in providing feedback as to why this is unbelievably insensitive.

  96. Kathleen
    Kathleen November 11, 2011 at 12:24 pm |

    You know what would be great? But what won’t happen? If Penn State abolished its football program over this.

  97. Kathleen
    Kathleen November 11, 2011 at 12:27 pm |

    Micah Fuge — so in your fantasy legal system, the punishment for failure to report child rape to police should be “a couple of hours” of “criticism”. Okay! We’ll be sure to consider your perspectives with all the seriousness they deserve!

  98. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub November 11, 2011 at 12:52 pm |

    Oddly enough, criticism and anger is not the same as demonizing someone, but nice try, son. Come back when you’re a little more rational.

  99. Norma
    Norma November 11, 2011 at 1:16 pm |

    Micah Fuge: He is a person that knew about a crime and did too little about it

    Aw, poor misunderstood Joe.

    Imagine yourself at a place of business– say one whose ostensible goal is to educate young people. Imagine you are also filthy rich.

    Now, imagine you learn from a student that he was an eye-witness to your colleague raping a child. At your place of employment.

    And you don’t do a fucking thing about it.

    Guess what happens? You get fired and humiliated. People despise you and think you’re a disgusting excuse for a human being. Because you let a child rapist continue to rape children. WHILE working at a school, and being paid more than any person in the state.

    Cry me a fucking river.

  100. librarygoose
    librarygoose November 11, 2011 at 1:27 pm |

    Micah Fuge: Who here knows about the sex-slave trade in Russia and other parts of the world? What have you all done to stop it? That’s what I thought.

    Yet another case of “Bad things happen other places, how dare you be mad about bad things done here!!” I find it sad that you feel so powerless that you excuse all behavior because you can’t stop some things.

  101. Rich
    Rich November 11, 2011 at 1:27 pm |

    I was shocked that students would riot over a football coach being fired!! It’s a fucking game you morons! In addition, Paterno turned a blind eye while little kids were raped by this sick man. All so the college could keep winning at football. Where’s the outrage at Penn State over the current political establishment or the bank bailouts?? Those are the things college students should be concerned with because it’s going to effect them directly in the very near future.

  102. CBrachyrhynchos
    CBrachyrhynchos November 11, 2011 at 1:30 pm |

    I lived in Bloomington, IN when Bobby Knight got sacked (as much for thinking he was more powerful than the administration than for his anger-management problem), and yes, many students are creepy stupid.

  103. Some ethical decisions are not that hard: thoughts on Joe Paterno. | Adventures in Ethics and Science

    [...] comments on the ethical decision he had to make (and on how well or badly he did with that) like this: If this guy met his “legal obligations” by reporting the report, not something he saw himself [...]

  104. Han
    Han November 11, 2011 at 1:38 pm |

    My husband and a number of my friends went to Penn State, and for the record their only concern and grief is for the little boys, not for the football team in spite of being sports fans. The students who are complaining and rioting are technicallly adults but are really still kids, and hopefully someday they’ll see that their anger is completely misdirected. But for now let’s please acknowledge that it’s a huge school with a lot of smart, moral people who are just as appalled as the rest of us.

    No. Being a decent person is not something you just grow into after a while. As a “kid” myself, I’m offended. Their anger was not just “misdirected;” it was unconscionable. That’s not because they’re “kids.” It’s because they’re shitheads. Do not minimize the damage the rioters have done and the loud and clear message they have sent to the victims.

    And again, no. It shouldn’t be necessary for having a discussion about child abuse to point out that some people are moral and smart and also don’t like child abuse. I would hope that’s a fucking given.

  105. Nell
    Nell November 11, 2011 at 1:39 pm |

    Hibernia86: “So please don’t [make] assumptions about a person’s views or decisions based on their gender.”

    You might want to try reading for comprehension next time, Hibernia. My comment addressed the culture which pervades insular, all-male institutions such as the Catholic clergy and college football programs and the attitudes those cultures foster. It says nothing about “views or decisions based on … gender.” It says nothing at all about the attitudes of men in general.

    I said I found it telling that it was a woman high school principal who finally blew the lid off festering cesspool, which is not to say that if the high school principal had been a man, he wouldn’t have done the same thing – not because of his gender but because he wasn’t part of the institution (in this case the PSU football program) that those who were steeped in its culture believed needed to be protected at all costs.

  106. suspect class
    suspect class November 11, 2011 at 1:40 pm |

    Who is demonizing Paterno? For that matter, who is demonizing the short-sighted protesters? I see a lot of robust criticism and anger, suggestions for policy changes, and interrogation of how people come to feel that they have no moral responsibility to protect children from their friends and colleagues. But if a group of (mostly) women engaging in this sort of discussion seems to you like *demonizing* that says a lot about your view on women. You have to go pretty far in talking about *child rape* and child rape apologists to reach the level of unjust demonizing, at least for any reasonable person.

  107. Nell
    Nell November 11, 2011 at 1:51 pm |

    And that comment about male relatives retaliating against the rapist – that’s straight out of the patriarchy handbook. It wasn’t all that long ago that rape was considered a property crime. Forty years ago, spousal rape was virtually unheard of. You couldn’t rape what you already owned.

  108. EG
    EG November 11, 2011 at 7:11 pm |

    Hibernia86: Nell, most every man outside of Penn State is horrified at what happened.

    Oh, really? So Penn State is just freakishly unlucky in happening to have a high concentration of rapist-enabling assholes, and this in no way reflects a larger cultural problem, it’s totally coincidence? Do you hear yourself?

    It is not uncommon for men to report rape when they find out about it

    Oh, it’s not uncommon for men to call the cops when they find out that a buddy has committed rape? It’s funny, I have many friends who have suffered sexual abuse. And not one of them has ever noted that the rapist’s friends turned on him or turned him in. And I’ve never met a man who’s mentioned having called the cops on a friend. Is this just another freakish coincidence?

    But, you know, if it’s not uncommon, what more can anybody ask? That all men feel obligated to call the cops every single time they hear about someone they know committing a rape? That would be too large a burden to ask them to bear, I guess.

    and rapists often more likely to receive vigilanty justice from the male relatives of the victim than the victim herself.

    …so? How does that have any bearing on what’s going on here, except insofar as men are unable to let a victim of rape even have control over the revenge taken on her rapist?

    Not to mention the fact that sexual abuse has been done by both genders sometimes from a mother to her own child.

    While percentages vary from 99% to 67% of offenders, in every single study I can find, male offenders significantly outnumber female offenders.

    Micah Fuge: Who here knows about the sex-slave trade in Russia and other parts of the world? What have you all done to stop it?

    Nobody involved in the sex-slave trade in Russia or in any other part of the world works for me, as far as I know. Nor are any of those people personal friends of mine. If somebody came to me and told me that they had actually seen a subordinate or friend of mine participating in the sex-slave trade, you can bet your ass I’d be doing something about it.

    Micah Fuge: Just a person who deserves to be punished and criticized. Not demonized. By making him seem inhuman and pretending that he is the devil

    Can you point to an instance of this? There is nothing inhuman, alas, about being a total fucking asshole with completely fucked-up values and priorities who deserves to either be put in jail or to donate all his wealth toward preventing child sexual abuse and helping victims of it.

    Micah Fuge: It is unbelievable what Sandusky did, and he has practically gotten a pass

    From anybody on this blog? Again, can you point to an instance of that?

    Han: Their anger was not just “misdirected;” it was unconscionable. That’s not because they’re “kids.” It’s because they’re shitheads.

    I completely agree. I am a professor. I teach students. I know plenty of students who are aware that preventing children from being raped is more important than football. And take a look at the ages of the people quoted in the “Justifications” blog entry. They’re 18, 19, 24. That’s old enough to have a developed a basic moral compass. I’ll excuse a lot of things due to the recklessness and poor impulse-control of youth, but there’s nothing inherent in youth that makes it difficult to understand that raping children is disgusting and that protecting a child-rapist is unacceptable.

  109. Micah F
    Micah F November 11, 2011 at 7:13 pm |

    Kathleen:
    MicahFuge—soinyourfantasylegalsystem,thepunishmentforfailuretoreportchildrapetopoliceshouldbe“acoupleofhours”of“criticism”.Okay!We’llbesuretoconsideryourperspectiveswithalltheseriousnesstheydeserve!

    No, but how much media coverage do most rapes get? In my legal system, we look at the freaking trial and see what happens. Have you noticed the range of stories? You don’t even know exactly what Joe knew. If the first article I read on this was true, then he heard that there was inappropriate horsing around in the shower. If he knew more than that then he should be punished accordingly. Is it so hard to believe that the media exaggerated to get more publicity? I’ll condemn him when I see and hear full testimonies and interviews. If you have them, please share them with me and everyone so that we can put this thing away.

    suspect class:
    WhoisdemonizingPaterno?Forthatmatter,whoisdemonizingtheshort-sightedprotesters?Iseealotofrobustcriticismandanger,suggestionsforpolicychanges,andinterrogationofhowpeoplecometofeelthattheyhavenomoralresponsibilitytoprotectchildrenfromtheirfriendsandcolleagues.Butifagroupof(mostly)womenengaginginthissortofdiscussionseemstoyoulike*demonizing*thatsaysalotaboutyourviewonwomen.Youhavetogoprettyfarintalkingabout*childrape*andchildrapeapologiststoreachthelevelofunjustdemonizing,atleastforanyreasonableperson.

    Are you kidding me? You are the most sexist person with whom I have ever had the displeasure of communicating. Do you know what my gender is? Tell me what gender I identify myself as. Whatever. When it comes to child rape, it is pretty easy to unjustly demonize. Watch this: I don’t know what you knew about the situation, but you are a demon. There, demonized. Again, please send me testimonies or interviews of people involved, because I am too stupid to find them. All I see and hear on the media is vague and opinionated. …Again, what gender am I? What’s my orientation? My religion? My ethnicity? My nationality? Judge me based on assumptions about me. Micah can be a girl’s name or a guy’s name. I assume that my opinion makes me a guy. It probably also means that I love football and hate soccer and (since all men are vile) I beat women.

    Jill: Haha.Goodargument,son.

    Seriously,ifyoucannotseetheethicalandmoraldifferencebetweenknowingthattheoreticallysomethingbadishappeningsomewhere,andknowingthataspecificindividualwhoyoupersonallyknowhascommittedaheinouscrime,Imean…

    The ethical and moral difference IS there. My point is that what he did is actually pretty human. Terrible but human. I think that we aren’t as naturally good as we think we are. Look up the Stanford Prison experiment. I really hope you are not bigoted like suspect class. If you are then you’ll just assume that the Stanford Prison Experiment had its results because it was men who were tested. (I actually thought that part of it demonstrated the fact that gender is largely a cultural concept. I personally believe that gender is completely cultural; it’s made up, but that’s another story. I promise that I am not sexist. But how can I prove that I am not when a few paragraphs that never even mention anything about women somehow condemned me on their own?)

    In general, I would like to say that I do not think that I am good at articulating my ideas, or even that they are totally right. But I see a problem with the popular response to this crime, and I want to explain why it bothers me. Maybe you still believe that Joe deserves all the punishment he can get. I want to wait until the media storm passes and we can read in-depth, accurate reports. By the time the whole story or even half the story is told, most people won’t care anymore, and that distresses me.

  110. From today’s show «
    From today’s show « November 11, 2011 at 7:56 pm |

    [...] football culture and the [...]

  111. Mary
    Mary November 11, 2011 at 8:02 pm |

    I never realized how much of an effect football has on a culture until I moved to Auburn in 2010 (they won the next championship). Cam Newton is all-powerful to many and I had to endure a long lecture about how great he is and lots of photos of the manager with him as I tried to sign up for the local gym. To me he’s just a college student, but to many he’s a hero because he plays a sport well. I really don’t get it. The sad part is that four Auburn students have been charged with armed robbery (March 2011 incident at a local trailer park involving a handgun), dismissed from the team and two have found positions on teams at junior colleges! WHAT THE HECK?!?! They allegedly robbed some terrified college student with a GUN and they get to keep on playing.

  112. Hibernia86
    Hibernia86 November 11, 2011 at 9:54 pm |

    Nell: Okay, if that is what you really meant, I’ll take you at your word. I agree with you that there are institutions that are too protective of themselves and look the other way when abuses happen. But it would be wrong to say that most of the members of the organization feel that way. Most football coaches aren’t going to put up with rape and neither are Boy Scout leaders. It is only the few that get too wrapped up in the culture that they forget what is important.

    I also agree that the fact that people didn’t believe that spousal rape was possible in the past was horrible. But that had to do with their beliefs about sexuality, not necessarily the worth of the individual. They believed that couples naturally wanted to have sex with each other and that there was something wrong with you if you didn’t want to have sex with your spouse. I think they still loved their sisters, but they didn’t understand that sometimes married people don’t want to have sex at a given moment and that to force them to anyway is rape.

  113. Jessica
    Jessica November 11, 2011 at 10:03 pm |

    I find it so disheartening to think that the victim does not truly matter. This happens not just here with these little boys, but also to all sexual assault victims. People are rioting because their football coach was fired, but who is out there burning buildings for these boys whose lives have been changed and will be forever surrounded by nightmares? My Father compared the coach to a Saint, and I asked him how a Saint could turn there back on something like this, he didn’t have an answer to that. Why are these little boys not being avenged? And why in a court room for a rape trial, is the woman told that her assault was warranted because she was wearing a skirt. People need to take responsibility for their actions, everything would work so much better that way.

  114. Annaleigh
    Annaleigh November 12, 2011 at 12:28 am |

    I was considering transfering to Penn State’s World Campus for my Bachelors even though I am poor and would likely only be able to take one class per semester.

    That’s definitely not happening now. What a disgusting school.

  115. librarygoose
    librarygoose November 12, 2011 at 1:17 am |

    Hibernia86: But that had to do with their beliefs about sexuality, not necessarily the worth of the individual. They believed that couples naturally wanted to have sex with each other and that there was something wrong with you if you didn’t want to have sex with your spouse.

    I disagree. They thought women couldn’t say no to their husbands as sex was their wifely duty. They didn’t have to enjoy it, but they damn well had to be “available”. Men were deserving of sex, women were just meant to be used for sex.

  116. depizan
    depizan November 12, 2011 at 2:44 am |

    EG: I’malmostcertainwe’renot.Foronething,Ithinkthatyouhavebetoldifyouare,andnobodyhaseversaidanythingtomeaboutreportingjack,andforanother,unlikek-12teachers,we’reveryrarelydealingwithminors.

    I suspect it varies from state to state. I know in Iowa, at least in the 80s and 90s when my dad was teaching, college teachers were mandatory reporters for child abuse.

  117. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub November 12, 2011 at 7:57 am |

    Also, WRT the “they’re just kids” position: They are not kids. They are not 13, year-olds, or 16-year-olds, where I’d give them a pass for naivte but also point out that their friends could be survivors/current targets of rapists, and that the adults in their lives need to point this out.

    But these aren’t kids. They are adults. And when you fucking riot as an 18-22 year old over the dismissal over a goddamn rape-enabling football coach (and express little to no outrage over what those survivors went through), well, you should expect some blowback for that.

  118. EG
    EG November 12, 2011 at 9:16 am |

    librarygoose: I disagree. They thought women couldn’t say no to their husbands as sex was their wifely duty. They didn’t have to enjoy it, but they damn well had to be “available”. Men were deserving of sex, women were just meant to be used for sex.

    Exactly. Marital rape was not illegal during the Victorian era, when the prevailing ideology was that women didn’t like sex at all.

  119. Jen in Ohio
    Jen in Ohio November 12, 2011 at 9:56 am |

    Hell, until 1976 marital rape was legal in every state in the USA. Nebraska was first to outlaw it, and it took North Carolina until 1993 to get around to doing so. Still, as of today, in some states, the penalties for marital rape can be lower than for other contexts of rape, and occasionally a spouse-rapist is eligible for probation in cases where a non-spouse-rapist would not be.

    As to the topic, pretty much everything EG said @ 11.10.2011 at 3:55 pm.

  120. Avida Quesada
    Avida Quesada November 12, 2011 at 10:30 am |

    Thomas MacAulay Millar:
    Thisisn’taboutcollegefootball—thoughI’mnotafanoftherevenue-generatingcollegesports.Thisisaboutaculturethatwillexcuserapeandaidingandabettingrapistsforpeoplewhobecomepopularforotherthings.JoePaternocoachesfootball;RomanPolanskimakesmovies,JulianAssangegatherssecrets,andtheyhavetheirfans—rabid,unthinkingmyrmidonswhowillsupportthemiftheydrugandrapechildren,coverupfortheirfriendswhodo,orputtheirpenisesinsleepingwomen.Suchacultureisonethatdoesn’treallythinkthatrapeisallthatbad.

    Totally agree.

    Even more is important to note that it was not only people from the right. Even some so called feminists run to protect Assange.
    He is one of the correct side.

    Also focusing on the sports side claud the issue and make us see as misandrist : “We hate sports because men love them”

    I am not saying that this is the case (I have found that in most cases is because of the history of female exclusion and discrimination) but that’s how it seems.

    Finally the fact that is male dominated helps only in that they make the abusers even more powerful but we do have cases of powerful female abusers been ignored by the media, their crimes minimized. That is the case of Bonnie Bleskachek, she was accused of discrimination, sex assault and harassment.

    She did loose her position as chief but did not loose her job!!!
    We (feminists) did not rush to defend her, but simply turn the other side.

    So we are dealing with nasty human nature. Some times it proves to be right (duke case female lacrosse) but it’s always with the bad motivations.

    Finally I am wondering if the fact that they were boys have something to do with it.
    Polanski victim was a female child, so maybe not.

    Love,
    Avida

  121. PrettyAmiable
    PrettyAmiable November 12, 2011 at 11:43 am |

    Micah Fuge: And then after that criticism lasts for a couple hours, we should be angry at Sandusky for, I don’t know, maybe at least as much time as we are mad at JoePa.

    What? Who isn’t disgusted with Sandusky? Who wants Sandusky to experience less ostracization and punishment than Paterno? Nobody? Nice strawman, my friend.

  122. Links 11/12/11 | Mike the Mad Biologist
    Links 11/12/11 | Mike the Mad Biologist November 12, 2011 at 4:53 pm |

    [...] Conspiracy of Hogs: The McRib as Arbitrage (must-read; absolutely fascinating) Sure, children were raped, but… Poverty With and Without a Safety Net The circle of wank Toxic Textbooks: Part III – Newton, [...]

  123. becca
    becca November 12, 2011 at 6:39 pm |

    fanshawe:
    If there were 1000 students at the riot, then there were 44,000 students not at the riot.

    And there were near 10,000 at the candlelight vigil.
    I hope other people who have no other image of penn state will remember this one http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/12/us-usa-crime-coach-vigil-idUSTRE7AB05H20111112
    Or maybe this, which is more important:
    http://www.rainn.org/ProudPSUforRAINN

    Another thing that gets lost in the coverage of this is that the crowd on Wednesday (which may not have been 100% students) were yelling for Spanier (the University president) to go, as well as JoePa to stay. Shockingly, there is a lot more simmering discontent toward the guy that announces tuition increases than football wins.

    That said, there were tuition increases. And an #occupypennstate thing going on. And a whole slew of other reason to be mad at Spanier that had nothing to do with this scandal. And we’re seeing youth in the streets all over the nation and the world. I’m not sure it’s accurate to boil this down to JoePa.

    This is in no way to defend anyone who has actually made the argument Joepa should stay. This is just to put the riot in a context that might not make one loose one’s faith in the whole of humanity quite so much.

    (full disclosure- I am a Penn State grad student; I have a vested interest in Penn State not being seen as characterized by only atrocious childrapists and rioters. Also, I would personally prefer we gave up football [do you know how hard it is to get to lab in a town built for 40k people that suddenly has 110k in one small area?] though I’m not holding my breath)

  124. zuzu
    zuzu November 12, 2011 at 6:59 pm |

    Micah F: When it comes to child rape, it is pretty easy to unjustly demonize.

    Yes, those poor, unjustly demonized child rapists.

    You’re a real peach and a sockpuppet, Micah.

  125. Politicalguineapig
    Politicalguineapig November 12, 2011 at 7:12 pm |

    Avada: I’m not sure that Assange can be said to be on anyone’s side at all. He’s just a shit-stirrer and a douche, who happened to turn up some information that made the Republicans look bad. Personally, I dislike sports because most of them are time-wasters, and most team sports encourage men to be aggressive (not good) and to form packs (very bad for any women or vulnerable humans in the area). I can’t speak for *all* feminists, that’s just my two cents.

  126. Raja
    Raja November 13, 2011 at 1:18 am |

    Lets just designate the area for nuking and get it over with. Stupid white people.

  127. Raja
    Raja November 13, 2011 at 1:20 am |

    I apologize in advance for anyone who might get angry at this comment. I’m having an angry POC moment right now.

  128. Azalea
    Azalea November 13, 2011 at 3:31 am |

    I don’t know you personally but something tells me you’d feel deep seated dislike for a coworker who walked in on a child being raped – an ongoing in person felony- & that person walked away without saying a word to the rapist not even an interruption of the rape and waited till the next evening to telPaterno
    The person who saw wasMcQuery who still works forPSU.

    Sheelzebub:
    Youtelltheperson(oryouremployee)whowitnessedaCRIME,“OK,let’scallthecops.”Becausehere’sthething–itisn’tyourjobtodotheinvestigation.Youwon’tgetsuedforcallingthecopsaboutanallegedCRIME.Especiallyifyoudosowiththewitness.IfIwitnessedacrimeatwork,Iwouldn’ttellmybossandleaveitatthat,HOWEVER,ifIdidtellmyboss,she’dsay,“OK,we’recallingthecopsandyou’regoingtotellthemwhatyoutoldme.”

    We’reallsoworriedaboutlawsuits–whataboutthoseeightboyswhowereraped?IfIwasoneoftherapesurvivors,I’dbequitetemptedtosuetheschoolforALLOWINGTHISTOHAPPEN.Becausehere’sthething–rapeisn’tanywherenearinthesameuniverseassmokingweed.Comparingcallingthecopsaboutasexualassaultwith“snitching”isgrossandfranklyvile.

  129. Sheelzebub
    Sheelzebub November 13, 2011 at 6:57 am |

    I don’t know you personally but something tells me you’d feel deep seated dislike for a coworker who walked in on a child being raped – an ongoing in person felony- & that person walked away without saying a word to the rapist not even an interruption of the rape and waited till the next evening to telPaterno
    The person who saw wasMcQuery who still works forPSU.

    I pointed out in the other thread about this that McQuery’s ass should be fired, as well. Because here’s the thing–every one of those employees who failed to even so much as call the police (and no, I do not count the campus cops as the police) failed those kids, and allowed Sandusky to prey on other children.

  130. jennygadget
    jennygadget November 13, 2011 at 11:15 am |

    And we’re seeing youth in the streets all over the nation and the world. I’m not sure it’s accurate to boil this down to JoePa.

    Yeah, you know, there are always (college) youth in the streets to some to degree, it’s just that there usually aren’t TV cameras.

    I was at U of Oregon when the students first voted to make sure the University wasn’t making any money from sweatshop labor (as regards to clothing), when the University itself decided to ignore this voted in favor of not pissing off their biggest donor, when the University President publicly changed his mind (partly in response to protests), and then when he quietly changed it back while most of the students were off campus due to break.

    There were students protesting all throughout this drama, including, at a certain point, a bunch of very privileged and annoying football players and fans who took great offense on Nike’s behalf and were outraged that someone thought something other than football was a priority. (Also, very confused on what the vote meant as far as who could make the uniforms they wore.)

    So, while, yes, I suspect the riots were larger than they might have been in other years due to the general unrest. And yes, not all Penn State students and alumni are assholes and it’s important to remember that. I sadly suspect that there would have been significant protesting/rioting on Paterno’s behalf no matter what.

  131. jennygadget
    jennygadget November 13, 2011 at 11:30 am |

    Who here knows about the sex-slave trade in Russia and other parts of the world? What have you all done to stop it?

    While this statement is such a douchey derail that the only response it deserves is the one Jill already gave it, I do find it rather hilarious (in a dark humor sort of way) that I was actually discussing something related with a friend the other day – sex trafficking in Bosnia. The ways in which it’s common knowledge, and the ways in which it’s not, and how it being common knowledge (among those with the power to make changes) has resulted in shit being done to stop it.

    As for what I have done to stop it? Well, I dunno about you, but I, myself, have flown all he way to Bosnia and single handedly taken on all the armed UN troops and military contractors that have been implicated in sex trafficking in the area. Which, needless to say, was ever so much easier than just picking up the fucking phone and calling the police.

  132. Politicalguineapig
    Politicalguineapig November 13, 2011 at 1:20 pm |

    Sheelezebub: Yeah, campus cops are kind of useless in any situation.

  133. Kathleen
    Kathleen November 13, 2011 at 5:28 pm |

    becca — so what do you make of the many fans who showed up to the Nebraska game in “Joe knows football” t-shirts? honestly, at this point, given what is public knowledge, what is their deal??????????????

  134. Lindsay
    Lindsay November 13, 2011 at 11:14 pm |

    It makes me cringe that there are people who care more for a football team than for a children’s safety. A child who is raped can face not even just physical problems, but emotional, social, spiritual, the list could go on and on about what a child would have to deal with during and after being raped. To overlook something like that, no matter what the circumstance is, is wrong. But to overlook it because the person who did it is the coach of a football team is crazy. It’s football for crying out loud. If getting rid of the team meant protecting one child from being raped I would get rid of the team in a heartbeat. Football is no where near being as important as children’s safety, and to think so is extremely wrong and corrupted.

  135. Raja
    Raja November 13, 2011 at 11:50 pm |

    jennygadget: Well,Idunnoaboutyou,butI,myself,haveflownallhewaytoBosniaandsinglehandedlytakenonallthearmedUNtroopsandmilitarycontractorsthathavebeenimplicatedinsextraffickinginthearea.Which,needlesstosay,waseversomucheasierthanjustpickingupthefuckingphoneandcallingthepolice.

    Hey if you ever get something like this going count me in.

  136. PeggyLuWho
    PeggyLuWho November 14, 2011 at 2:20 am |

    An almost non sequitur on the subject of mandatory reporting. Regardless of what the law may be, this shit doesn’t happen. They don’t report shit. I cannot count on my two hands the number of teachers, couches, counselors, administrators, and school therapists from junior high and high school who knew I was being abused, and did nothing to stop it. If I could, I would run them up a flag poll so everyone would know what miserable failures they were, not just as educators, but as human beings.

    And these guys at Penn State? I say, let ‘em fry. (metaphorically speaking)

    (Side note – I wonder how much brain damage I got from being picked up and dropped on my head as opposed to how much is from soccer. Also, could my excessive anger over this issue be the result of brain damage?)

  137. EG
    EG November 14, 2011 at 8:36 am |

    PeggyLuWho: Also, could my excessive anger over this issue be the result of brain damage?

    Doesn’t sound to me like any of your anger over this issue is excessive.

  138. becca
    becca November 14, 2011 at 10:02 am |

    Kathleen: becca

    Oh they are deluded fools worshiping a personality they’ve inflated to stand for all that is Good and Honorable (despite all evidence to the contrary), to be sure.
    Why the cult of personality? No clue. I don’t “get” football, so I can’t say I “get” the JoePa thing. Heck, I *did* get “information wants to be free” and I didn’t “get” the cult of Assange, either.
    There’s no dearth of fanatics who will defend JoePa past all reason, and I have no patience for them. I just wanted to make it clear that not all Penn State students are so nuts.

  139. Ruchama
    Ruchama November 14, 2011 at 11:07 am |

    I think a lot of the JoePa “thing” has to do with the fact that, up until last week, Penn State football had a squeaky clean reputation. Penn State prided itself on its team having one of the highest graduation rates in the country, and on being one of only two schools to have never had an NCAA violation, and much of the credit for that was given to Paterno — his reputation, for decades, was that he wouldn’t tolerate any of that. He insisted his players study as well as practice, he wouldn’t allow any sorts of bribes or other things like that, he came down hard on even minor alcohol and drug violations, he insisted his players conduct themselves “with honor,” and so on. It came as a huge shock to most people who follow college football that someone who was known for being that strict with his players over things that lots of coaches don’t really care about would be the one who ignored something as horrible as child rape from one of his coaches.

  140. zuzu
    zuzu November 14, 2011 at 11:54 am |

    Well, except that there were rumors for years about something going on, Sandusky’s retirement was questioned when it happened, the DA who looked into the case disappeared in 2005, and there was reporting on the grand jury investigation of Sandusky in early 2011.

  141. PeggyLuWho
    PeggyLuWho November 14, 2011 at 5:47 pm |

    EG: Doesn’t sound to me like any of your anger over this issue is excessive.

    Thank you.

  142. Azalea
    Azalea November 14, 2011 at 7:38 pm |

    Sheelzebub: IpointedoutintheotherthreadaboutthisthatMcQuery’sassshouldbefired,aswell.Becausehere’sthething–everyoneofthoseemployeeswhofailedtoevensomuchascallthepolice(andno,Idonotcountthecampuscopsasthepolice)failedthosekids,andallowedSanduskytopreyonotherchildren.

    Yeah, going to campus police is a JOKE and a way to keep any crime out of the media’s eye. While I’m pissed that Paterno didnt followup to make sure that the AD and VP did their jobs I am most upset and digusted with th3e adults who saw this man raping children and refused to intervene. It’s like watching a person burn alive and you have a waterhose but you put it down and walk away. I get the “bystander” effect but when its just, a naked pedaphile and a suffering child, if it bothers you why aren’t you moved to action? Also McQuery knew nothing serious happened as a result and still did not go to the police either. The janitors who saw, the Second Mile charity who were notified that he was abusing the children they were supposed to be helping.

    Have you all heard about the judge who let Sandusky go on bail who used to volunteer for his charity??? How fucking unethical is it for someone with ties to that charity or the school to be seating on the bench.

  143. Azalea
    Azalea November 14, 2011 at 7:51 pm |

    PrettyAmiable: What?Who isn’t disgusted with Sandusky?Who wants Sandusky to experience less ostracization and punishment than Paterno? Nobody? Nice strawman, my friend.

    Actually, everything I have read in the media and on blogs has been explicitly condemning Joe Paterno, its hard to even find Sandusky’s name now because most people are fixated on Joe Paterno. I’m upset he didn’t do more but I’m more upset at the witnesses who saw and didnt help, the Second Mile charity for knowing that he was molesting boys in 98 yet they continued to supply him with more victims, the campus police for doing nothing when notified, the ADA for not pressing charges, Paterno for not going public with what he had to know to be a coverup (he reported it and nothing came of it and he didnt think to followup), the attorney who was representing both PSU and the Second Mile Charity who knew about all of Sandusky’s investigations into molestation allegations etc etc.

    But I a freshly furious at the fact Sandusky is no longer in handcuffs and enjoying his freedom while he awaits trial as he is now out on bail, courtesy of a volunteer from the Second Mile Charity, aka the judge in his criminal case.

  144. Micah F
    Micah F November 15, 2011 at 12:27 am |

    Without needing to quote anyone, I think I can address the assumption that everyone debating me here has made, and that is that Joe Paterno knew that Sandusky was raping children, so out of one or a combination of two interests, he covered it up. Those interests are a self-interest and an interest in protect his football team and legacy. I on the other hand have not taken those facts for granted. There hasn’t been a trial yet, so we don’t know which facts are true.

    At this point, I would like you all to know that despite assumptions that some of you may have made, I really don’t care about football, Penn State sports, or anything related to Joe or sports in general.

    Back to Joe: Let’s assume that Joe is indeed 100% self-centered/football-centered. If you like yourself to no limit, and you find out that someone who is affiliated with you is raping children, you will be motivated to cover it up, which is what most of you rightly claim. However, you will also be Very motivated to stop him from raping children, especially in a place where you are affiliated. If you like your football team to no limit, and you find out that someone involved with the team is raping children, you will be motivated to cover it up. However, you will also be Very motivated to stop him from raping children, especially in a place where your team is, once again, affiliated. But all Joe Pa did was pass it on and was satisfied with the entire plan being to take some keys away from the rapist. This does not make any sense. This is why I want to hear or read interviews and see reports that aren’t based entirely on pending charges.

    Perhaps Joe is incredibly stupid, but that doesn’t fit his biography very well. Maybe he has some kind of mental illness; this would fit the whole story, but then wouldn’t he be a danger to others? We should be worried about that if it happens to be the case. Or, and I really hope that this is not the case, maybe he was involved much more deeply than we know and by reporting Sandusky’s crime, he would end up getting caught himself. If that’s the case, then those of you who have actually accused Joe of raping children, *coughzuzucough*, were in fact correct in your outright blind flinging of accusations using weighty words to stifle anyone who disagrees with you.

    Now this is either the part where you say that you think I am wrong and you tell me why, or this is the part where you quote part of what I said out of context (or just blatantly misunderstand my words(zuzu?) and then use some variation of the words “child” and “rape” in order to stifle my argument and my questions without actually needing to engage and question you own knowledge(zuzu?). Believe it or not, I am aware that children were raped and I believe that anyone who helped to harm them (and this probably does include Paterno, but the trial is ongoing) deserves a very harsh justice.

    (P.S. The reference to the sex slave industry was simply to point out that when children are being raped, we don’t always leap to action. (Some of you assumed that it was a distraction tactic?) If there was enough ambiguity in what Joe knew, calling the cops would have been irresponsible, because the matter could have been handled perfectly within the university (although taking away some keys is still a miserable failure). However, I found the actual Grand Jury of Fact document and read it. There can be no mistake about what McQueary witnessed. I admit that the comparison absolutely fails, and for that I apologize. I was wrong and I am sorry.)

  145. Politicalguineapig
    Politicalguineapig November 15, 2011 at 10:18 am |

    Micah F: Dude, the guy’s a football coach. He clearly doesn’t care about kids, and why should he? It’s not MANLY to care about kids, unless they’re family. That said, it would really be interesting to know what ethnicity the kids were. Might explain why no one did anything, because Pennsylvania’s a pretty racist state.

  146. CBrachyrhynchos
    CBrachyrhynchos November 15, 2011 at 11:09 am |

    Micah F: Personally, I’m willing to accept the possibility that Paterno was negligent rather than malicious in sweeping it under the rug, based on my experience that abusers are manipulative when confronted and can talk their way out of consequences with denial and promises of change.

    However, institutionally the risks of playing “forgive-and-forget” with a child abuser are much higher than, for example, catching someone fudge their time sheets. And even if we didn’t have an eyewitness to rape you still have:
    1) a middle-aged adult man
    2) alone
    3) naked
    4) in a shower
    5) with an underaged child.

    With a few exceptions, that’s just not proper behavior for an adult.

    In addition, Jerry Sandusky was given exceptional levels of privilege and access to the football program. At any point in time, they could have said, “thank you, Jerry, you’ll get your pension at the top of every month.” Instead, they let him hang out with the team for another decade, even letting him run affiliated youth camps.

  147. Ruchama
    Ruchama November 15, 2011 at 12:57 pm |

    That said, it would really be interesting to know what ethnicity the kids were. Might explain why no one did anything, because Pennsylvania’s a pretty racist state.

    Considering that most of the kids were probably from Centre County, which is 90% white, I’d bet that some if not most of the kids were white, just from the demographics.

  148. zuzu
    zuzu November 15, 2011 at 12:57 pm |

    Micah F: If that’s the case, then those of you who have actually accused Joe of raping children, *coughzuzucough*

    Show me on the doll where I said that, Micah.

    Micah F: Now this is either the part where you say that you think I am wrong and you tell me why, or this is the part where you quote part of what I said out of context (or just blatantly misunderstand my words(zuzu?) and then use some variation of the words “child” and “rape” in order to stifle my argument and my questions without actually needing to engage and question you own knowledge(zuzu?). Believe it or not, I am aware that children were raped and I believe that anyone who helped to harm them (and this probably does include Paterno, but the trial is ongoing) deserves a very harsh justice.

    And yet, you said, and this was the thing I quoted from you which seems to be why you’ve seized on the one-liner response as some kind of accusation that Joe Paterno raped those kids personally, that:

    Micah F: When it comes to child rape, it is pretty easy to unjustly demonize.

    Break out the tiny violins.

  149. Kathleen
    Kathleen November 18, 2011 at 3:17 pm |

    CBrachryhnnos — but we do have an eyewitness to child rape! That’s the part that makes this outrageous. Your list of things that are not appropriate — I can actually imagine lots of scenarios where that kind of shower would be just fine; in fact I think the sort of proliferation of anxiety and shaming around nudity or adult-child friendships is a terrible, misguided fallout from this kind of case. The problem is not adults spending time with children. The problem is not adults and children being naked. The problem is not adults and children taking showers together. All of those things can be part of wonderful, life enhancing activities (going swimming! Playing sports! mucking around outside! making a mess with clay!)

    THE PROBLEM IS RAPE. The problem is sexual abuse. The problem is adults using power and trust to hurt children. The problem is other adults helping abusers do it. Let’s direct the suspicion and surveillance at the activities that merit it. Otherwise you get into the kind of misdirected directives that feminists know a lot about. “To prevent child rape, children should have to wear clothes AT ALL TIMES except those moments when having supervised baths (not for too long!) or changing efficiently into their pjs.”. You know what would prevent child rape? Turning in child rapists.

  150. Kathleen
    Kathleen November 18, 2011 at 3:27 pm |

    just to finish up — imagine that Sandusky had actually been doing what he had been pretending to be doing — mentoring vulnerable boys. That shower could have been the end of a fantastic day: meeting admired heros, playing a game you enjoy with them, visiting a stadium you’ve seen on TV, imaging being part of a big exciting university campus… I’m not a football fan myself, but imagine how great that would be for a kid who was, and a shower in the locker room of the stars would top it all off as a thrilling “behind the scenes” treat. There would have been NOTHING wrong with that, if that’s what it had been. *That’s* what is so disgusting about Sandusky [AND HIS ENABLERS] — he used all of these child-appropriate forms of anticipation and excitement in order to hurt children

  151. CBrachyrhynchos
    CBrachyrhynchos November 18, 2011 at 3:52 pm |

    The problem is not adults and children being naked. The problem is not adults and children taking showers together. All of those things can be part of wonderful, life enhancing activities (going swimming! Playing sports! mucking around outside! making a mess with clay!)

    As a survivor, I’m going to say bullshit on this. I’ve been able to bathe myself from the time I was five or six. If I want an older guy to get soapy and play grab-ass with me, I’ll find a hot date. My abuse didn’t involve any buggery, so I find both the allegations from 1998 (which Sandusky admitted were wrong) and his admissions to be damning. Naked bear-hugs? I call that rape. And apparently the survivor of the ’98 incident did also.

    You think that it’s over-protective to keep everything supervised and in public? I’m not certain it’s protective enough. Not when estimates run as high as 1/6 boys and 1/4 girls.

    I did end up showering with my scoutmaster, assistant scoutmaster, and adult relatives on occasion, but never alone, always as part of a larger group, and never involving any actual physical contact.

  152. CBrachyrhynchos
    CBrachyrhynchos November 18, 2011 at 4:00 pm |

    And if it’s a perfectly innocent activity, then there’s no need to do it alone, in the off-season, and in the middle of the night after the facility has been closed for the evening.

  153. Kathleen
    Kathleen November 18, 2011 at 5:28 pm |

    The point is that with Sandusksy, it *wasn’t* a perfectly innocent activity. But to ask the whole world to monitor their behavior, to instantly equate “naked” with “sexual”, for example — instead of focusing on the behavior of that subset of the world made up by abusers — is in my view absolutely the wrong take-home lesson. You couldn’t create a prudish enough set of regulations to stop abuse from taking place. You have to focus on the abuse itself.

  154. CBrachyrhynchos
    CBrachyrhynchos November 18, 2011 at 8:46 pm |

    Kathleen: All you’re doing here is supporting Sandusky’s defense, which argues that some forms of naked horesplay between adults and adolescents are perfectly normal behavior as part of the mentoring process.

    But it’s not. There’s a fairly strong code of ethics regarding protection of children that professionals and volunteers have adopted over the last 30 years. This code of ethics is built on what child rapists do:

    1) they isolate children
    2) they undermine resistance by violating privacy and boundaries
    3) they abuse
    4) they use rationalization and guilt to silence the survivor.

    To point to a typical program, if you’re volunteering as a leader for the BSA, you practice two-deep leadership (two registered adult leaders present at all times), and you don’t shower with kids. If you violate that, which Sandusky admitted you should get sacked with prejudice. Coaching organizations have similar rules.

    Meanwhile, I just can’t grok the idea that a naked bear-hug or patting a naked kid on the ass (again, actions which Sandusky admitted) isn’t sexual abuse in this context. Sure, I’ll freely admit that my views are informed by the social construction of growing up as a boy in the United States and feeling uncomfortable with group showers as an adolescent under the the best of circumstances. But I’ll point out that Sandusky’s victims were enculturated into the same environment, and they apparently also agree that those actions were a sexual violation.

  155. CBrachyrhynchos
    CBrachyrhynchos November 18, 2011 at 9:33 pm |

    Or to use a different line of analysis, children have a right to bodily privacy. They also have a right not to be sexually harassed. Because of the significant power imbalance between children and adults, nudity between the two needs to be treated with a high degree of skepticism.

  156. CBrachyrhynchos
    CBrachyrhynchos November 18, 2011 at 10:54 pm |

    The reason I’m pushing back so hard on this is that, by most people’s definitions, I wasn’t raped. I wasn’t fucked, at least physically. He didn’t ejaculate in my mouth. Like Survivors 5, 6, and 7.

    My abuser spent a two-hour drive on a camping trip fucking with my head. I was alternately interrogated on my lack of sexual experience, and then attacked for it. He said a lot of things that were just plain bullshit about sex, but I wasn’t ready to hear. He badgered me into saying an increasingly absurd and explicit array of sexual utterances.

    And when we reached the destination, he found an opportunity to corner me, stick his hand down my pants, and say, “you’ll have a big one when you grow up.” And that was it.

    So when I see Sandusky’s lawyer come on the TV and say, “It’s just a misunderstanding, just friendly locker-room horsing around, they weren’t really raped.” I want to scream and throw things. The whole process of grooming those kids, breaking them down in small steps, setting them up spend the rest of their lives thinking, “why didn’t I stop it there.”

    I name that rape.

  157. Kathleen
    Kathleen November 18, 2011 at 11:04 pm |

    Sandusky is not defending himself against “being naked” charges; he’s defending himself against rape and assault charges. What happened to you was sexual assault. And — note — your clothes stayed on the whole time. It didn’t protect you from a determined abuser.

    I think we just need to focus on abuse, and abusers. Naked children doesn’t equal anything sexual when adults who are not abusers are present; children have a right to be safe with their clothes on or off. Nudity is a tremendous childhood joy; adults shouldn’t be permitted to ruin it (and taking it away because some adults might is an infringement of childhood). The right approach is not “clothes on at all times”. The right approach is “no excuses for abusers”.

  158. Kathleen
    Kathleen November 18, 2011 at 11:06 pm |

    Finally, the burden of prevention is on ADULTS. Not children. “clothes on all the time” puts the burden of prevention on kids. That’s wrong. Having no clothes on doesn’t put kids at risk. Being around abusers — while clothed or unclothed — is the risk factor.

  159. Secret Identity for This One
    Secret Identity for This One November 18, 2011 at 11:48 pm |

    The problem is not adults and children being naked. The problem is not adults and children taking showers together. All of those things can be part of wonderful, life enhancing activities (going swimming! Playing sports! mucking around outside! making a mess with clay!)

    You’re 100% dead wrong here. It is SEXUAL ABUSE for an adult to subject any child – except his or her own child – to adult nudity. Period. There is no justification for getting into a shower with someone else’s child. No reason for an adult to be naked around someone other than his or her own child – and even then, the CHILD’S comfort is paramount.

    No adult has the right to subject someone else’s child to adult nudity, unless there is an explicit understanding with the child’s parents that this is okay. And IT HAS TO BE OKAY WITH THE CHILD. We should at least pretend that children have some sort of agency and right to bodily autonomy. Adults don’t get to decide that it is fun! mucking around in water! and engaging in horseplay! to be naked around other people’s kids. For crying out loud.

    I know whereof I speak. It was one of the sexually inappropriate things that was visited upon my kid – BY TWO MEMBERS OF MY EXTENDED FAMILY – and it was a sexually abusive act, PERIOD. Don’t freaking tell me it’s “not the problem.” It’s a huge problem, for him. He pays the price every single day of his 11-year-old life. You listen to a 10-year-old talk about how “maybe I should kill myself, because my sexuality has been ruined” and then come and tell me how – among other things – an adult in-law getting into the shower with my kid is “not the problem.”

  160. CBrachyrhynchos
    CBrachyrhynchos November 19, 2011 at 12:44 am |

    Kathleen: I’ve not said anything about restricting the nudity of kids. Kids may want to shower, change clothes, horse around with friends in the cabin after lights-out, or strip off their clothes and go dancing around the house. There’s nothing wrong with that. Kids will need to get out of their clothes, and adults should respect their privacy in doing so.

    What you keep missing is that it’s the sum of warning flags that bothers me. It’s:

    1) isolation and
    2) lack of supervision and
    3) undermining boundaries and
    4) big power differential.

    When you combine those things, it starts to look a heck of a lot like grooming a kid for sexual abuse. And we know that Sandusky showering with the kids was sexually abusive, because it’s a central part of the complaint made by Survivor 6 in 1998.

  161. CBrachyrhynchos
    CBrachyrhynchos November 19, 2011 at 1:29 am |

    I’m willing to bet that most parents thought that Jerry Sandusky was the best thing that ever happened to their children, until they started reporting abuse by him, and even then I think many parents still had faith in him. This is true of most abusers in my experience.

    You can’t control for, “being around abusers.” You can control for certain signs that a person might be grooming a child for abuse.

  162. Secret Identity for This One
    Secret Identity for This One November 19, 2011 at 10:51 am |

    You can’t control for, “being around abusers.” You can control for certain signs that a person might be grooming a child for abuse.

    And you can let your kids know that it’s not okay to be around naked adults. Because what’s the downside of that? Seriously. What’s the downside of saying, “If some dude wants you to take a shower with him, NO NO NO NO NO.” It educates the kids about what kind of behavior is appropriate.

    And what is the big need to expose children to adult nudity, anyway? Yeah, it would be great if we had a society wherein we all embrace our nudity and our sexuality and everyone was safe we didn’t have any bodily shame or self-consciousness. Only we don’t live there, do we? We live in a patriarchy that determines who has bodily and sexual rights. And it ain’t women, and it sure as hell aint kids.

  163. Ragnell
    Ragnell November 20, 2011 at 6:56 am |

    jennygadget: As for what I have done to stop it?Well, I dunno about you, but I, myself, have flown all the way to Bosnia and singlehandedly taken on all the armed UN troops and military contractors that have been implicated in sex trafficking in the area. Which, needless to say, was ever so much easier than just picking up the fucking phone and calling the police.

    All sarcasm aside, these two subjects are related. We get a lot of training lately in the military on the signs of human trafficking so that we can recognize if we’re patronizing an establishment that used trafficked people, or are solicited by someone who’s a victim of this we’re meant to be able to recognize it and stop patronizing it.

    We’re not expected, even as troops, to march in there and physically stop it at every notice (we could a-Be Wrong, or B-Be outgunned, outnumbered or otherwise outmatched), but guess what we ARE expected to do when we recognize human trafficking, or are told by a subordinate that they suspect human trafficking?

    Report it to the law enforcement authorities.

    No matter who the fuck is involved.

    Same thing as if we or a subordinate witnesses a sexual assault. (That’s actually why we have a special reporting office, so that victims have the option of seekign medical help and keeping their anonymity, because supervisors are required by law to report it to the MPs/SFs.)

    And if you cover it up, or participate? You’re subject to court martial. And everyone up and down the chain of command is obligated to enforce that with whatever’s in their power.

    Same standard Penn State officials should be held to.

  164. EG
    EG November 20, 2011 at 11:03 pm |

    Ragnell: Same standard Penn State officials should be held to.

    Or really, any other adult human being.

  165. Kiltedbear
    Kiltedbear November 24, 2011 at 10:37 pm |

    “Penn State students who are rioting because the board of trustees fired a man who helped cover up serial child molestation?”

    Awfully big assumption there don’t you think considering that the police are not even considering raising charges on the man. This kind of BS is what is wrong with the whole media frenzy around this. People are pissed and want his head because he didn’t do enough. Well it is awfully easy to see that he should have done more in hind sight and I know many people would like to think they would have done better, but history tells is that is just not true. All the people rooting for Paterno to be brought down are muddle headed, vicious, pathetic simpletons who get a kick seeing somebody like Paterno kicked down, guilty by association with no trial by jury.

  166. Welcome to Monday ~ 28th November 2011 | feminaust ~ for australian feminism

    [...] about their football and baseball and such, almost as much as Melbournians and their AFL teams. Covering up child abuse seemed a bit extreme though…until I remembered the reactions of some to the rape scandals in [...]

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