Weekend Open Thread with a Cool Bow Tie

A piece of Whovian-themed cross-stitch is this weekend’s threadalicious host. Please natter/chatter/vent/rant on anything you like*.

A cross-stitched pattern of a blue bow tie, below it in red letters it says BOW TIES ARE COOL

Bow ties are cool by strangefrontier, on Flickr | CCL (Some rights reserved)

e.g. What have you been up to? What would you rather be up to? What’s been awesome/awful?
Reading? Watching? Making? Meeting?
What has [insert awesome inspiration/fave fansquee/guilty pleasure/dastardly ne’er-do-well/threat to all civilised life on the planet du jour] been up to?

*Netiquette footnote: if a recent thread is still active on a topic, continue the discussion there; let the Weekend Open Thread be a refuge from that discussion. When a Thread O’Doom has erupted, it is especially important to avoid spillover.

Similar Posts (automatically generated):

262 comments for “Weekend Open Thread with a Cool Bow Tie

  1. February 8, 2013 at 6:30 pm

    I hope this isnt spill over, apologies if it is, but I wanted some advice on trigger warnings.

    I put them when links are going to involve topics which generally can be seen to be triggering, and if a link features hate speech.

    However if you are discussing a topic academically so to speak, eg reporting of assaults, should the fact your post discusses such things, even without accounts, and in what might be described as a “dry” tone also carry a TW?

    On the blog we both avoid this by not using the term TW as we find it terribly reductive, and instead highlighting content, but obviously in a comment this could make the highlight longer than the comment.

    Anyway thoughts, advice gratefully received. I hate thinking of people being upset.

    • February 8, 2013 at 6:36 pm

      I’ve seen “Content Note” used in some other spaces in preference to “Trigger Warning”. I prefer it myself on Hoyden, and generally use a compact form of description such as [Content Note: discussion of homophobic abuse].

      • February 8, 2013 at 6:40 pm

        Thats pretty much what we do on the blog…thank you, i had never thought of doing this in comments :-)

      • February 8, 2013 at 6:43 pm

        BTW, this conversation isn’t spill-over IMO – you’re not continuing an argument from another thread. Clarifying netiquette in general is fine on an open thread, although since we have an active thread discussing moderation matters, it might in principle have been more on topic there. I’m happy to have it here this time, though.

      • February 8, 2013 at 7:56 pm

        Thanks, and I hadn’t thought of mentioning it on the moderation thread.

  2. February 8, 2013 at 7:50 pm

    I was wondering if the Feminste community had any thoughts on Samsara?

    • February 8, 2013 at 9:01 pm

      I presume you mean this film? I haven’t seen it.

      • February 8, 2013 at 9:30 pm

        Yes! That’s the one.

        It’s currently being screened in Australia. All of my peers (lefty/academics) seem to love it; but I found it exoticising and moralising. I was wondering if anyone else felt the same… or differently!

  3. February 8, 2013 at 8:29 pm

    I wish I could just relax for once. This is the most overwhelming life has ever been for me.

    • February 8, 2013 at 8:31 pm

      Hang in there, mxe!

      (By the way, I just wanted to say…I always read and enjoy your blog. Can I friend you on dreamwidth? Mutual naturally, though I can’t imagine what you’d find interesting about my personal updates.)

      • February 8, 2013 at 8:48 pm

        Sure! You’re pretty cool so I certainly don’t mind being your friend. You should add me first, though because I have no idea how to friend people on Dreamwidth. =P

      • February 8, 2013 at 8:52 pm

        Lol! Um, if you look at the dash on the top of the page when you’re signed in and seeing someone else’s DW (for example) there should be a teensy link thing that says “add”. Or if you’re viewing someone else’s profile on DW and you’re signed in, you should see it on the middle-right of the page, next to the links to message someone.

        I’ll add you soon though! (I have a slew of DW things to do tonight, might as well club them all) And thank you ^__^

  4. February 8, 2013 at 8:41 pm

    Just want to give a plug to my favorite book blogger, Melissa aka the Feminist Texican – http://feministtexicanreads.wordpress.com/. I’ve probably picked up at least 10-12 books based on her recommendations and they’ve all been really good. She reviews a lot of works by non-US authors, POC, other folks who don’t get as much attention in mainstream book reviews, so she’s been a great source for me for finding books I might not otherwise have known about or thought to pick up.

    • Nimue
      February 9, 2013 at 12:12 pm

      Cool! I’m looking for more book recommendations, and when I ask people they always say “oh! Have you read EXCITING NEW BOOK by [some white guy]???” It’s much harder to find book recommendations that are actually inclusive. I will definitely check out her book reviews!

  5. February 8, 2013 at 8:48 pm

    Gloriously trans-erasing class today in my Gender and Sexuality course. Uh, professor, if you’re going to only talk about the cis, you’re not really talking about gender, and if you’re only going to talk about the straight, you’re doing fuck-all on sexuality either.

    (Note: there is a chapter ahead on sexualities in particular in my book….into which the transfolk have been crowded, natch, ’cause it’s not like vanilla straight monogamous trans people exist or anything, you’re all kinky and infected with the gay, gaiz, that’s why you’re in the “sexualities” chapter amirite?.)

    And no, saying “we in Canada don’t believe in more than just the two genders” is FUCKED UP. a) Yes, lots of First Nations people, and non-European-descended people in Canada do believe in more than two genders, by the fucking way. b) Well, too bad! We non-binaries and trans people exist! So fucking deal with us, you coward, or teach something less disingenuous.

    • February 8, 2013 at 8:55 pm

      Ick @ trans-erasure.

      Speaking of school and trans* folks, I’m going to give a speech about trans* folks in my public speaking class some time this semester. I’m going to try to explain what it means to be trans* and address some common misconceptions (not all of them because I’m only allowed a maximum of 5 points in the speech). I wonder how it’ll go.

      • February 8, 2013 at 8:58 pm

        Holy shit, that is amazing! And brave! (And if you tried to address them all you’d be dying of old age! eesh.) I hope it goes well for you.

        (Also I know your userpic is not Kurama but I keep thinking it is.)

      • February 8, 2013 at 9:08 pm

        Fortunately, many stereotypes against trans* folks center around a few basic stereotypes. With that in mind, I’m going to address the “trans* is just a different kind of gay” stereotype, the “trans* folks are mentally ill” stereotype, and the “being trans* is a performance” stereotype. Those three seem to be behind most transphobic narratives (or at least strong support them). Of course, I can’t possibly cover everything with those three, but I’ll definitely cover quite a bit.

        It does kind of look like a Kurama avatar from a distance. =O But yeah, that’s Rika from Phantasy Star IV, not Kurama. It’s my favorite RPG for the Genesis/Mega Drive.

      • February 8, 2013 at 9:16 pm

        gah there is an excellent advice about taking a class/ seminar from a trans* professor i read recently, with handouts he gives permission to use and loads of great advice, The name escapes me right now but I will try to find it .

      • February 8, 2013 at 9:26 pm

        Jemima, please do! I’d love to be able to smack her nose with authority. Right now I’m just feeling weird and alienated and very small.

      • EG
        February 9, 2013 at 11:50 am

        You are brave, mxe. I hope you’ll have some time for “poor deluded trans folks are just confused by the Patriarchy about acceptable gender roles; if only they could be enlightened and understand that men can like pink too, they wouldn’t feel the need to transition.” I think that one needs to be taken down as often and as intelligently as possible.

      • February 9, 2013 at 12:08 pm

        if only they could be enlightened and understand that men can like pink too, they wouldn’t feel the need to transition

        sdgjsdgjksdgsdgjksdg Yeah EG that pisses me off hardcore too.

      • February 9, 2013 at 12:30 pm

        “if only they could be enlightened and understand that men can like pink too, they wouldn’t feel the need to transition”

        Thank you for reminding me of this one, EG. In addition to being completely wrong, this is a really painful stereotype for me to deal with; it’s horrible when people tell me that I should just “become” a feminine man and not seek a medical and social transition. I’m sure other trans* people loathe it, too.

      • EG
        February 9, 2013 at 1:54 pm

        I’m sorry to have reminded you of it, mxe. I would never want to cause you pain. All I will say is that I am appalled that anybody would think they had the right to “suggest” such a thing to you–as if somebody grappling with what it means to be trans in this society wouldn’t have already thought of that, to say nothing of the erasure of butch trans women that myth entails.

      • February 9, 2013 at 2:22 pm

        I appreciate your concern, but there’s no need to worry about upsetting me. I did say “Thank you,” after all. For the sake of my speech, it’s very helpful for me to remember all of the stereotypes that exist out there, especially the ones on which a large number of transphobic narratives are based.

        Another reason I’m thankful is that I want to use this speech as some kind of catharsis for me. Addressing the stereotypes that hurt me on a personal level has a healing effect on me because it’s way of confronting them directly (and I’m personally fond of that approach for myself).

      • karak
        February 8, 2013 at 10:40 pm

        My psychology professor invited a trans* woman to speak to the class in undergrad.

        She told us she’d take questions that were genuine, and there were a lot of trans* 101 questions about sexuality and identity.

        She was one of the best speakers we’d ever had. I think this is an excellent idea, and I wish you good luck.

      • February 11, 2013 at 11:19 am


        Here is the advice column I mentioned, sorry it took a while to dig up…hope it is some use :-)

      • February 11, 2013 at 2:43 pm

        That was super helpful; thank you! :)

      • February 11, 2013 at 3:56 pm

        I think he must be a great teacher to have!

    • February 8, 2013 at 9:00 pm

      Dont know if u are following the push for equal marriage in the UK, and the various problems with the law as it is being framed, but one of my all time favorite people wrote this about how it completely ignores the fact the binary is not the be all and end all…


      • February 8, 2013 at 9:17 pm

        Wait, there’s more than a binary???? omg revolution.

        (No, I hadn’t, in detail, but I just did and holy shit that’s awful!)

      • Schmorgluck
        February 9, 2013 at 7:15 am

        In France, it’s being discussed for days and nights in the parliament. Opponents have filed THOUSANDS of amendments that had to be discussed. Then some have had the gals to say it’s taking too long and that there are more important things to legislate about. WHILE KEEPING DRAGGING THE DEBATE ALONG WITH BOGUS AND/OR REDUNDANT AMENDMENTS.

        One positive thing emerges from this, though: a major female personality has emerged in the French political scene: Christiane Taubira, minister of Justice. She was considered a minor political figure up until now. She was off the radar in polls. To poll questions directly mentioning her, the most frequent answer was “I don’t know”.

        In the parliamentary debate about same-sex marriage, she hasn’t been good. She’s been BRILLIANT. She answered the opposition’s quibbles without flinching, with perfect eloquence, and (it’s been noted by many commenters) without having a single glance to at some sheet: straight out of her brain. Some right-wing politicians conceded that they had widely underestimated her and that they ended up looking ridiculous for that mistake

      • Lolagirl
        February 10, 2013 at 5:14 pm

        Schmorgluck, I’ve been trying to follow the French parliamentary debates over the last few weeks but it’s all gotten rather dizzying to keep up. Do you think they will end up ratifying gay marriage legislation soon, or will it just continue to get dragged out so that nothing happens at all?

        I hope the answer is oui!

    • February 9, 2013 at 12:28 am

      I had to bail out of trying to explain trans prejudice to this girl who works at the radio station. I had just interviewed a woman who was Miss TSUK, and during the interview I had referred to her as gorgeous. One of our interns asked me if I was saying that ‘to be funny or to be nice?’
      I replied by saying I did think she was gorgeous, and she asked if I was gay, and i said, ‘no I find her attractive as a woman.’ And she said, but she isn’t a woman. At which point I pointed at a GQ magazine with Beyonce on the cover and I said, ‘if I told you I found her attractive as a woman, you wouldn’t say it’s just a piece of paper.’ I realized that she didn’t understand my analogy, it wasn’t a particularly good analogy, and all of a sudden I was having a conversation with a 22-year old intern about what I find sexually attractive (something reasonable people could take out of context as being inappropriate,) so I just shook my head and walked away.

    • LC
      February 9, 2013 at 1:31 am

      And no, saying “we in Canada don’t believe in more than just the two genders” is FUCKED UP.

      Wait. WHAT? (As a Canadian, I’m a little gobsmacked.)

      • February 9, 2013 at 1:50 am

        My gob is as smacked as yours, I assure you. I think she was going for “the society doesn’t generally accept”, but that’s STILL bullshit, so I don’t know what she was on about…?

      • February 9, 2013 at 11:39 am

        +1 for gobsmacked Canadians.

    • kat
      February 9, 2013 at 4:25 pm

      I hope this prof isn’t teaching a my school. i think of gender as a continuum.

      • February 9, 2013 at 5:32 pm

        -_- Are you in central Alberta? Because that’s where I’m based.

        As a further side-eye-creating thing, this professor’s general specialty is feminist sociology. (I hate, hate, hate that I have to side-eye someone for being transphobic just because they say they’re feminist, but it’s not like there’s a lack of transphobic feminists out there.)

      • kat
        February 9, 2013 at 6:52 pm

        nope. Umanitoba. I rarely deal with sociology except where it intersects with linguistics. And right now I am working on designing Sociolinguistic survey for an SLA course. I am having some trouble creating my gender category b/c I am not sure how it will be received.

      • LC
        February 10, 2013 at 12:12 pm

        Oh, Alberta. *sigh*

        Mind you, I’m sure I can find any amount of trans-erasing crap you name in Quebec fairly easily, as well.

      • February 10, 2013 at 2:18 am

        Also, I should mention, she’s never erased trans folk or said anything along the lines that gender isn’t a continuum or anything like that. It’s just a refusal to discuss trans issues or even really look at GBT issues (so far; that chapter’s coming up) that’s really beginning to get on my nerves. And I should amend that earlier statement to say that I think she was talking about legally recognised genders and just phrased it badly. I certainly don’t think Canada has a bad record re: transgender rights (at least relative to much of the western world), though it has no legal recognition of non-binary peeps afaik, which bothers me….

  6. February 8, 2013 at 9:10 pm

    I highly recommend the film “Amour.”

  7. February 8, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    Also, I think if I keep arguing with anti-choicers who use the tacit consent objection, my head is going to explode.

    • February 8, 2013 at 10:39 pm

      Tacit consent? What? There’s so many awful things it could be….

      • February 9, 2013 at 1:18 am

        It’s just that whole misogynistic “consent to sex = consent to pregnancy” nonsense all over again.

      • Nimue
        February 9, 2013 at 12:16 pm

        Ohhhhh I seriously hate that idea! I believed in it for the longest time too, and it always bothered me. After I thought about it some more I figured out why it bothered me so much….because it’s completely ridiculous.

      • shfree
        February 9, 2013 at 4:39 pm

        And hitting them back with consent to sex = consent to fatherhood doesn’t really work, sadly, unless they are the
        strain of anti’s who believe that men don’t have to support any children they make, ever while forcing women to carry to term. Those are few and far between. I’ve only come across one, and I wanted to stab him with a fork.

  8. karak
    February 8, 2013 at 10:41 pm

    I rear-ended another vehicle on my way to work today, and the day is full of poop.

  9. February 8, 2013 at 10:42 pm

    Staying inside this weekend mostly because a) broke and b) fucktons of snow.

    I have to laugh at the people (around here) freaking out about the “snowpocalypse.” I want to say “welcome to ONTARIO. By the way.. Know what we used to call snowpocalypse? Fuckin’ WINTER.”

    In other news, trying to get up the nerve to start a new painting that’s been kicking around in my head. Loosely based on the song “Korean Bird Paintings” by the Mountain Goats.

  10. EG
    February 8, 2013 at 11:04 pm

    This week has been brutal. Not for any bad things–in fact, I got two pieces of really excellent news. It’s just that I really screwed myself in saying yes to all the things asked of me for this semester. I’m teaching three separate classes, directing two MA theses, and running two independent studies, and I’m going up for tenure in the fall. My days on campus are back-to-back classes and student meetings until 7:00 or 9:00, and my days off campus are frantic prepping, and I’ve been having insomnia, and I’m just so exhausted. I’m so tired. And it’s only the second week of classes, it’s only going to get harder. Today I woke up about as tired as I usually am at the end of a normal day and I could barely get anything done except for drinking tea. And I know I’m being a whiny baby and plenty of people have it far worse, but I am so tired.

    • librarygoose
      February 8, 2013 at 11:56 pm

      Yeesh, you do not sound like a whiny baby. That made me tired just reading it.

    • February 9, 2013 at 12:18 am

      You’re not being a whiny baby at all, I literally don’t think I could handle that amount of work at all. I would just snap.

    • Donna L
      February 9, 2013 at 12:51 am

      No, not a whiny baby at all. I don’t think I could do it, not even for two weeks!

    • February 9, 2013 at 1:24 am

      WTF EG. Valoniel’s even giving you the O_O right now and she only caught half that comment on my screen…

      Please take care of yourself! I’d be homicidal doing that much.

    • John
      February 10, 2013 at 6:58 am

      Know what you mean. Just finishing up working on ship for the last 118 days of 11.5 hours a day. Getting ready to head home from the middle of the indian ocean via Singapore, Japan and the middle of the US. Hope you can regroup and stay hard charging! Enjoy what you can when you can! Watch the coffee!

    • EG
      February 10, 2013 at 11:02 am

      I just wanted to thank everybody for the sympathy and support. It really means a lot–I tend to spend a lot of time thinking that I’m complaining for no reason and should just get over it. I’m really grateful for what everybody said.

  11. thinksnake
    February 8, 2013 at 11:19 pm

    I start a youth work course on Monday. This is through TAFE (which I think is kindasorta equivalent to community college in the US?), rather than uni. Am very much hoping this goes better than my seven years at uni that ended with no qualifications.

    • Chataya
      February 9, 2013 at 5:29 pm

      Seems more like a combination Vocational school/Community College (assuming you’re in Australia). Typically vocational schools focus on jobs that require certification but not degrees like welding, car mechanics, and electricians. Community colleges generally offer Associate Degrees and some Bachelor Degrees.

      Good luck with that! My cousin is going for his air conditioning service certification and made the Dean’s List this semester (honor roll type thing)! “Traditional” college wasn’t really for him, either.

  12. Donna L
    February 9, 2013 at 12:49 am

    [Trigger warning for transphobia]

    There’s really no escape. I was minding my own business this evening reading some threads on a forum I belong to for parents of kids ranging from high school age to mid-20’s or so. And saw this lovely comment from someone complaining about the fact that Brown now includes the cost of GRS and other transition-related health care in its student health coverage:

    This is cosmetic surgery, by the way. Major cosmetic surgery, but cosmetic surgery. Surgeons can’t transform a man into a woman, or a woman into a man; all they can do is make one look a lot more like the other, including naked. They can’t make “reassigned” sex organs function as sex organs; they can make them function as elaborate sex toys.

    And how do social norms figure in? Does it matter if the vast majority of people sharing the financial burden of a treatment would not agree to pay for it if their children wanted it? The medical profession certainly has a large role in deciding what is medically necessary, but do they have the ONLY role? I don’t think they do now, although it’s close. How about markets?

    Wonderful. Nice language there in boldface. And this is a man I had previously respected, who went to the same undergraduate school I did at around the same time (and lived in the same residential college, so it’s entirely possible I knew him), and had at least one kid at the same college my son went to. You never know, I guess.

    • February 9, 2013 at 1:11 am

      Ugh. It’s painful when you find out that someone you once respected is actually a bigoted asshole.

      I suppose it never occurs to him that many trans* folks have an actual need for GRS. I personally want GRS because I’m not at all comfortable with what I currently have.

      Cis privilege – he’s swimming in it.

    • Donna L
      February 9, 2013 at 3:03 am

      I complained about the whole thread rather bitterly and the moderators finally locked it. Thank God.

    • Donna L
      February 9, 2013 at 2:40 pm

      I’m still pretty upset about it. The same guy referred to trans women, even after social, medical, and surgical transition, as still being “transvestites.” And this is someone who knows about my history, and with whom I’ve interacted in a cordial way online for years now.

      Plus there was another person who said something like “why are you acting so hurt — are you one of them?” I think that at least that comment may have been deleted.

      If you have any desire to see how the thread went, it’s at talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1457893-brown-student-health-plan-cover-sex-reassignment.html, and my primary comments were #’s 86 and 87.

      I did get a private message from someone expressing shock at the awful things some people were saying, and thanking me for handling it as well as this person thought I did, and staying reasonably calm and not losing my temper. (I knew that if I did, I’d be the one who’d end up being reprimanded, suspended, etc. Because that’s how things work.)

      As I said, there’s no escape. Whether or not you’re “out” online.

      • EG
        February 9, 2013 at 2:53 pm

        That’s just horrible, Donna. I don’t know what to do with people who can meet and interact with you online and still say such hateful things. There’s such a basic lack of empathy, no–it’s a commitment to dehumanization, of, as that hateful commenter said, a philosophy of “them” and “us.”

        I wish that private message person had shown zir support publicly.

      • February 9, 2013 at 3:00 pm

        ….well, that was fucking disgusting, that entire thread. I’m so sorry, Donna.

      • February 9, 2013 at 3:08 pm

        I’m glad I wasn’t a part of that thread. I would most definitely lose my temper. Just hearing about it makes me upset – I don’t even want to see the thread.

        I’m so sorry you had to deal with all of that. There really is no escape, but hopefully some day there will be.

    • John
      February 10, 2013 at 7:17 am

      Donna I feel for you. Its not good for a Yammerhead to talk about things that they have no real knowledge about. However, there are laws that state that they can’t be killed for it. So leave them in your dust and really freak them out by living your life to the fullest that you can!
      I know in my younger days my view was much different, but I have changed that view. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that before the first blade touched you, you had to go through so many hurdles just to get to that point that it was something that you had to do! So enjoy your life to the best you can. Remember to smile at them and laugh and then go about your day with joy in your heart! Lowlifes like that need to be left behind.
      I wish you well and that you have lots of happiness and enjoyment in your life!

    • Tempy13
      February 11, 2013 at 10:50 am

      Reading that made me sick to my stomach! I’m very sorry you were minding your own business and out of nowhere that transphobic GARBAGE flew into your face and made you feel like you cannot escape it. I’m deeply sorry.

  13. February 9, 2013 at 3:58 am

    Hi, fellow deviant man hating feminists! Just wanted to let you know that I, along with my boyfriend and dog, am launching a road trip soon. We’ll be touring the USA in a custom camper mounted in the bed of a Silverado, going from city to city in order to give away free pie. We call ourselves OccuPIE and our motto is “pie it forward.”

    What’s pretty funny about all this is that I am your typical crunchy godless socialist, and my boyfriend is a little-L libertarian and yet he’s totally excited for this trip. He likes it because it’s private, individual action.

    I hope you’ll have a look at our blog and come out to see us when we get near your cities. We’re also looking for suggestions for other cities to visit and hosts along the way. Pie, revolution, a cute dog, everybody wins.

    • Angie unduplicated
      February 9, 2013 at 9:27 am

      Don’t let the cops hassle you if you have to park in a non-campground setting. I lived and worked out of a truck topper for two years and it was fun, challenging, and, oddly, hyperallergenic: my asthma gave me nearly no trouble in that setting.

      mxe-Hang in there. Think of your future as an adventure among an alien species, because transphobes will think of you as another species besides human. The most ignorant and bigoted sectors of the human race invent fiction about everyone who is not included in the lowest common denominator. You already write well so you can reinvent or reframe as you like. Just, please, don’t despair.

      Boring day ahead waiting for my Girl Scout cookies, working, and taking the boss lady, who can’t drive, to buy groceries.

  14. Schmorgluck
    February 9, 2013 at 11:13 am

    Malala Yousafzai doesn’t need the Nobel Peace Prize.

    The Nobel Peace Prize needs Malala Yousafzai.

    Save the Nobel Peace Prize: http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/nobel-peace-prize-for-malala

    I may be putting it in terms that parody the “Chuck Norris Facts” meme, I’m still very serious. This girl is THE awesome. I can’t think of a better recipient for the prize. Please pass the word.

  15. Chataya
    February 9, 2013 at 5:35 pm

    I filled out my application for a Mirena IUD yesterday! Now to patiently wait for my insurance to refuse to pay respond.

    • February 9, 2013 at 5:42 pm

      See that just confuses me, a coil is surely the cheapest contraception going. So why would they not pay?

      • Chataya
        February 9, 2013 at 6:02 pm

        Because insurance companies don’t actually care about your health, they just want to make money. /bitter

    • jojo
      February 9, 2013 at 9:42 pm

      I have the Mirena IUD. I love it and hopefully you will too! Good luck!

      • GracieGrace
        February 10, 2013 at 8:22 pm

        I just got my Mirena put in, and thanks to my insurance, it went from $393 to $8. Woohooo! That’s like almost a week of work that my insurance just covered! I hope yours gets covered by your insurance, because otherwise I will cry for you :(

      • GracieGrace
        February 10, 2013 at 8:24 pm

        Oops I replied to the wrong thread!!! Sorry!

    • GracieGrace
      February 10, 2013 at 8:27 pm

      I accidentally replied to the wrong post!! It’s right below, but I’ll reiterate! I will keep my fingers crossed that yours gets covered because insurance companies are weird and stupid sometime and I will cry with you if yours doesn’t get approved :( I mean, honestly. Covering the Mirena one time is MILES less expensive than birth control every month! I got one put in just this week and I am a very happy camper. I don’t want you being an unhappy camper :(

  16. February 9, 2013 at 5:44 pm

    BTW, where the hell is the Whovian love in this thread?


    • February 9, 2013 at 5:48 pm

      I am writing a final paper on Midnight and muted group theory!

      • February 9, 2013 at 5:51 pm

        Ooh, shiny! Midnight is one of my favourite eps ever.

      • February 10, 2013 at 12:54 am

        SO CREEPY. I miss Donna, I miss her SO MUCH.

    • thinksnake
      February 9, 2013 at 5:50 pm

      Sorry! I’m still working my way through Supernatural (halfway through second season), can only deal with one fantasy tv show with horror elements at a time. My fandoms don’t play well together in my head.

    • February 10, 2013 at 12:53 am

      Ugh, I love Doctor Who, I FUCKING LOVE IT. I haven’t seen any classic Who but ugh god I love it. Tennant is my favorite, I have mixed feelings about Matt’s seasons but I really love them visually, such vivid colors! And I really, really love everything and anything to do with River and I would like to be her when I grow up. I do love the long, complicated story-lines from season’s five and six, like with the Silence and finding out River’s past and whatnot.

    • karak
      February 10, 2013 at 1:18 am

      I love Tennant and hope when Smith dies he regenerates as Tennant.

      A lot of stuff from Tennant doesn’t really line up with stuff from Smith, and they handwaved that with the crack and why Amy didn’t remember the Daleks. But I think that crack re-wrote the universe–it gave the Weeping Angels a new backstory, for example, and most importantly, rewrote who River Song is. River knows Tennant, she’s met him before when they first meet, but the story *we* see makes it clear that was the only time she met Tennant. Makes no sense until you think that River was also re-written, and the best part means that she may not die in the library!!!

      • LC
        February 10, 2013 at 1:14 pm

        You are giving far too much credit to Moffat’s sloppy handwave. :-)

        But yes, on some level, Moffatt clearly intends the cracks to be like RTD’s Time War, a chance to ignore previous continuity when it is convenient, and just write what he wants to write and not care about if it fits with anything before it.

        OutragedAndSprinkes, I have all the Doctor Who that can be seen, and if you do go back and watch the old show you have to understand that ClassicWho is VERY different than NuWho.

        Especially since you are a fan of the latest seasons, you probably won’t like it, I suspect. The pace is different, stories are in multiple parts, but self contained. (There are a couple of season arcs, but they are rare.) There is no “The Doctor falls in love with all his Companions” as text. (You can clearly argue it for some Companions as subtext.)

        Mind you, even that is too broad a brush. The reason the show lasted as long as it did was that it has been willing to reinvent itself. And, while I may not like the show Moffatt is doing for the most part, his reinvention of DoctorWho into a Fairy Tale is part of that tradition.

  17. February 9, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    All right, fine, since Tigtog started it…. Whovians on the thread! Favourite episode? Least favourite episode? Favourite companion? Why?

    • thinksnake
      February 9, 2013 at 5:59 pm

      I don’t like Rose.

      Well, that’s not quit correct. She annoyed me a bit during her initial run, and I probably should interrogate why regarding class, sex and accent and all that. But the way she gets held up as a shining example in large sections of the fandom, especially in contrast to Martha (who I had a lot more respect for – she got things done), really gets on my nerves.

    • February 9, 2013 at 6:12 pm

      Favourite episode is so hard, perhaps the Empty Child because A. It introduces Captain Jack and B. The Doctors joy at winning…just this once.

      Although the sound of drums and last of the time lords were stunning for the scenery chewing over acting and BDSM memes.

      I like Rose and Martha equally, and despise Donna to the core, that may be resentment at her demanding and getting the role, I never accepted her though.

      I am limiting this to “new” Doctor coz i is old :D

      • February 9, 2013 at 6:32 pm

        Oh dear, DeepRifts™ in Who fandom!

        I love Donna, although not more than Martha. I was fond of Rose. I had to put up with mr tog moaning about Amy even though I thought she was great, and I lurved Rory.

        I never heard before that Catherine Tate demanded the role. Really? Or do you mean Donna stalking The Doctor with her suitcases packed and ready to go? I really liked that about her, and I hated how Donna left the TARDIS in the end (Damn you, Uncle Rusty!).

      • February 9, 2013 at 6:51 pm

        No I meant Tate, she apparently did and since her comedy show was getting top ratings RTD had to give in. This is via the Richard Bacon radio show though, so may not be 100% reliable. :)

      • thinksnake
        February 9, 2013 at 7:17 pm

        What I heard was that she was initially offered the companion role, but schedules clashed, so she did the (then) one-off Christmas special. Then, after Freema Agyeman finished her run as episode-to-episode companion, Tate and RTD discussed dates again.

        Though my source is similarly at-arms-length from the show and production team…

      • February 9, 2013 at 8:27 pm

        I have never been able to watch Eccleston ask for “just this once” without bawling my face off. Nine deserved more than 13 episodes, ffs. (Yes, he’s MY Doctor. :P)

      • February 9, 2013 at 8:32 pm

        It was heartbreaking he left, but then amazing he even took the part. I can understand why he didnt want to be known as the Doctor.I fell in love when he said, “Every planet has a north”

        Ecclestone is such an established actor, but one who only ever takes parts with such integrity and credibility. His portrayal of Jesus is possibly the best ever.

      • LC
        February 10, 2013 at 1:17 pm

        Empty Child, because as someone who grew up on ClassicWho, “Just this once, EVERYBODY LIVES” broke me into grinning through my tears.

        That Eccleston did it at all is kind of a miracle, but that it ended on such a sour note for him saddens me, since I’d love to see him do a cameo.

        ClassicWho I recently remembered how much I love The Face of Evil, both for Leela and for the amazingly creepy “Who Am I!?” scene with Xoanon.

    • librarygoose
      February 9, 2013 at 6:32 pm

      I loved Martha and refuse to be cowed by the guys who argue with me. Rory is second in my mind. From old Who I love to hate Adric. Favorite ep. is totally Empty Child* because of Captain Jack. I not so secretly adore John Barrowman.

      *Really though it’s The Doctor’s Wife.

      • February 9, 2013 at 6:36 pm

        I not so secretly adore John Barrowman.


      • February 9, 2013 at 7:24 pm

        The Torchwood episode with Spike and Captain Jack proved someone somewhere can read my mind!

      • February 9, 2013 at 8:21 pm

        I loved Martha and refuse to be cowed by the guys who argue with me.

        I thought she was a bloody brilliant character who got punked out by the writing. (I have similar Feels about Tosh and Amy.) That said, I didn’t like Agyeman’s acting much. What wouldn’t I have given for Angel Coulby playing her instead of being wasted on Merlin

      • February 9, 2013 at 8:26 pm

        Ohhh that’s an interesting thought. The only thing about the shitty end to Merlin that I liked (And I have driven everyone mad with my complaints about how it neither followed the Welsh nor British Roman tradition) was that it left Gwen in charge.

      • February 9, 2013 at 8:31 pm

        Urgh. I had to stop watching Merlin mid-season-3 because Annoyance (and the Arthur-Gwen romance bothered me because this Arthur just plain didn’t deserve her imo, and Morgana was being turned into a Walking Misogynist Trope), and besides, the very mention of the show makes my Arthurian-legend-fan wife spit and hiss like a vampire encountering garlic, but until then, Gwen (and her huge eyes of liquid adorable doom omg) and Gaius were basically why I was watching the show. Boo to it fucking up all the traditions, though.

      • librarygoose
        February 9, 2013 at 8:48 pm

        Poor Tosh :( Owen was a d-bag. I’ll admit to a not very reasonable hatred of Gwen though. I can’t even pretend it has nothing to do with shipping wars. Jack and Ianto were meant to be.

      • February 9, 2013 at 8:52 pm

        I’ll admit to a not very reasonable hatred of Gwen though.

        I don’t know. I mean, hating someone who roofies their fiance before telling him about infidelity and demanding forgiveness, knowing he won’t remember and they won’t have to be accountable for shit in like 3 minutes….seems really reasonable to me. I just really fucking loathe Gwen, and I don’t even see her as a competitor in the Jack/Ianto thing (polyshipping trend ftw?), just…I think she’s unethical and a major asshole.

        …still not as big a fucking asshole as Owen, though. At least Gwen gave something resembling half a shit about being square with people she hurt.

      • librarygoose
        February 9, 2013 at 9:11 pm

        I know, right? That just cemented my hatred of her. I liked her character more in later seasons, Children of Earth and the shit show that was season 4. In fact, I actually liked Gwen in…whatever 4 was called. Dolphins of Mars or whatever.

      • February 9, 2013 at 10:06 pm

        See, I didn’t actually feel anything for Gwen either way until I got to Cyberwoman… then I felt a vague dislike, which just got worse and worse and by the end of the season I was all but screaming DIE DIE DIE at the screen whenever she was in danger.

      • A4
        February 10, 2013 at 12:09 am

        I stopped watching Merlin because it was hella boring.

        Merlin: “I have all the power in the world! I’m an oblivious twit!”
        Arthur: “I challenge you to an oblivious twit contest!”
        Morgana: “Hisssssssssssssssssss” *eyeliner*
        Gwen: “I am drippy and wet.”
        Giles: “Things were much better with a real antagonist”
        Dragon: “TRUFAX”

      • February 10, 2013 at 12:13 am

        Merlin: “I have all the power in the world! I’m an oblivious twit!”
        Arthur: “I challenge you to an oblivious twit contest!”

        I was with you except for this. Arthur wins all the oblivious twit contests. IN fact there aren’t even contests. He just shows up and the prize leaps into his hands.

      • A4
        February 10, 2013 at 1:26 am

        He just shows up and the prize leaps into his hands.


      • LC
        February 10, 2013 at 1:20 pm

        I thought she was a bloody brilliant character who got punked out by the writing.


        And librarygoose, I still find it kind of amazing that we all hated Adric until that scene, and then cried anyway. (Well, not ALL, but lots.)

        But to be fair, Adric never annoyed me as much as Peri. (I remain torn on Turlough.)

    • EG
      February 9, 2013 at 8:16 pm

      I loved Rose–loved the fact that she was working class, loved the fact that she was aggressive and active. I loved Eccleston, as well.

      When it comes to original Doctor, though, I am Tom Baker/Romana all the way.

      • February 9, 2013 at 8:23 pm

        Have to agree on both old and new, think Romana and Teegan were my first crushes.

      • LC
        February 10, 2013 at 1:24 pm

        Tegan Jovanka ! (I still say, “Brave Heart” to people.)

        I was a Leela fan, an Ace fan, a Tegan fan, and a Romana (both of them) fan.

        I later learned to love Ian and Barbara, and Jaime.

        The Brigadier has a place in my heart.

        For new, I liked Rose, LOVED Donna, liked Mickey immensely, felt Martha was let down by the writing, and was wishy-washy about Amy. (I liked Amy and Rory as a couple, though, but I wished they would actually show Rory being interesting and a good match for Amy, rather than just tell us all the time.)

        Jack gets his own sentence. :)

      • February 9, 2013 at 8:24 pm

        Nine-Rose-Jack ftw!

        And New Who’s actually been really good with the working-class companions. Rose and Donna both fuzz me like mad, though I identify most with Donna, personally. A lot of the things she says about herself, I’ve thought about myself…

      • librarygoose
        February 9, 2013 at 8:43 pm

        I loved that fact that Rose was working class. She’s the only one who when she went with the Doctor I felt like I really got why she went. She kinda annoyed me later, which was probably just disappointment at how she was written, but beginning Rose was greatness.

      • tomek
        February 10, 2013 at 5:03 pm

        i think rose is good character because she seem like actual person from the real life. many do not like because she is of disliked social group chav, however she is good person.

        i do not like new dr who with bowtie and ginger because it is written very obsessed with being clever. having clever things with time travel. but it have no heart like old dr who.

    • February 9, 2013 at 10:37 pm

      Martha, then Amy/Rory, then Rose as a very close third, then anyone who ever auditioned but didn’t get the role, then CompanionDonna. I don’t know what it was about her, but she made my teeth twinge every time she was onscreen.

    • February 10, 2013 at 12:55 am

      Donna is probably my favorite companion, because Donna. I don’t think I can pick a favorite episode though.

    • karak
      February 10, 2013 at 1:22 am

      I hate Rose, but I hate the new seasons more. I think the new head writer is far too into wit for the sake of wit, writes shallow, broadly drawn characters, doesn’t make his story arcs deep enough or internally coherent enough, and I think his depiction of gay people is always vaguely exoticized and tokenism-ish.

      That said, I do still like it, and it only disappoints me compared to the first three seasons, especially the GENIUS of Bad Wolf. It really was extraordinarily television, and the merely good television of the later seasons can’t compare.

      This writer also wrote Jekyll (which is very uneven as well, shows his strengths and weaknesses much more strongly than Doctor Who) and Sherlock (which is goddamn brilliant and shows what he does at his best).

      • February 10, 2013 at 1:48 am

        Eh, I don’t know. Moffat’s style of writing gay people could use some rounding out, fuck knows I agree with you there, but I’m really fucking glad to be away from the RTD era of ALL THE GAY PEOPLE ANGST. AND THEN DIE. HAVE I MENTIONED THAT GAY PEOPLE ANGST AND DIE? HERE HAVE A GAY DEATH FOR TO REMEMBERING THIS. Seriously, the only gay/bisexual recurring character in Torchwood/Who who isn’t dead at this point is Jack, and that’s just because he can’t. Meanwhile, the Relentlessly Heterosexual Gwen goes on, and on, like that awful Titanic song. And nothing anyone tells me will convince me that Donna’s horrific arc ending wasn’t indirectly a punishment for not liking the Doctor romantically.

      • Librarygoose
        February 10, 2013 at 3:12 am

        Well, RTD did write the original Queer as Folk which was also all gay angst. He reminds me of George, “The R.R. stands for kill all your favorites” Martin. I can never stand the excuse of killing off characters for the story if occurs more than once in close sequence. That’s just shitty writing. Make me empathize with your characters for something other than their bloody and untimely death. Jerk.

      • LC
        February 12, 2013 at 12:07 am

        And nothing anyone tells me will convince me that Donna’s horrific arc ending wasn’t indirectly a punishment for not liking the Doctor romantically.

        That never even occurred to me, but it depresses me that I can’t rule it out.

      • February 12, 2013 at 1:09 am

        That never even occurred to me, but it depresses me that I can’t rule it out.

        Yeah, I had pretty much the exact same reaction when Valoniel pointed it out to me. Ugh, ugh, ugh, and yet so fucking plausible. It was like…what, now it’s not even enough to be heterosexual, you also have to be appropriately heterosexual? FFS.

      • February 10, 2013 at 4:24 am

        I agree about bad wolf being an impossible act to follow.

        I have quite a controversial view on the gay characters tho. I know the objections but I have 2 kids they have grown up with New Who, with Jack being cooler than cool, with cross species lesbian relationships, with the idea their favourite TV has gay characters and thats OK.

        I know growing up how I would have killed just to know everyone want straight, and how much suffering that would have saved me. Yeah its not perfect, but its better than total easure.

      • February 10, 2013 at 2:43 pm

        I wasn’t objecting to all the portrayals, just the RTD narratives of gay people. If you look at it, none of the Gays Who Lived are RTD’s characters. Moffat introduced Jack. (And in the s1 finale, RTD killed him off. Just saying.) Also, in the Moffat era, we’ve had several main gay supporting cast – Vastra, Jenny, Canton etc – who’ve survived. The only gay character to die was that one gay guy in A Good Man Goes To War. And even then his partner survived. River’s canonically bisexual (pansexual?) and has gloriously survived. Hell, Eleven’s bisexual according to Moffat.

        Yeah, no, I could do with a gay companion or two – hell I could do with a gay Doctor! And I agree that some of Moffat’s gay characters are silly tokens and otherised. I just didn’t want to see RTD’s Gayngst being splattered all over the screen for four seasons of Who and two of Torchwood. (Why yes I didn’t watch CoE onwards because I’m not remotely interested in The Gwen Show.)

      • Librarygoose
        February 10, 2013 at 6:23 pm

        Why yes I didn’t watch CoE onwards because I’m not remotely interested in The Gwen Show.)

        I watched CoE and cried. Then I watched the next one like it was a weekly personal attack against me.

      • LC
        February 11, 2013 at 11:58 am

        I watched CoE and cried. Then I watched the next one like it was a weekly personal attack against me.


    • February 10, 2013 at 9:49 am

      I have never seen one episode of Dr. Who, but since he’s every-fucking-where I thought I’d give it a try.

      Any recommendations on where I should start?

      • February 10, 2013 at 10:03 am

        Either the film with Paul McGann, which is pretty much stand alone, and less of a commitment time wise http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116118/

        Or the first of the new series with the ninth Doctor, Christopher Ecclestone, which also demands no background knowledge (and he is the best Doctor)

      • LC
        February 10, 2013 at 1:28 pm

        jemima101, you have my heart for being an Eccleston fan. (We are a lonely breed among NuWho fans.)

        Angel, I would avoid the McGann movie, as I really don’t think it works too well, although it’s not as terrible as people make out. It just doesn’t feel like the show does, so I’d not bother.

        I’d start with Eccelston, though. It sets the landscape well.

      • February 10, 2013 at 1:35 pm

        What?!!! How can anyone disagree…I mean 10 is lovely and 11 makes me want to cuddle him and brush his hair, but nothing beats 9!

        Hmmm I seem to make a habit of being controversial when I don’t mean to be :D

      • EG
        February 10, 2013 at 1:37 pm

        Wait, what? There are NuWho fans who don’t like Eccleston? What’s wrong with them?

      • LC
        February 10, 2013 at 1:48 pm

        NuWho exploded with Ten.

        For many, MANY, NuWho fans, the show is about Ten, and also Ten, and sometimes about Ten. Eleven is adorable, and Nine is, “That Guy We Have to Thank for Getting the Show Back, but Aren’t We Glad He Left Quickly So We Could Get Ten.”

        It’s similar to the “Tom Baker is the only Iconic Doctor” from ClassicWho, but mixed with more fannish obsession.

        Given Ten’s role as a sex symbol and the huge spike in female viewership at that time, I do think that there is a general impression that it is just “Teen Fangirl Love” (Which I don’t think is necessarily true. I think he just had the longest run of NuWho.)

      • LC
        February 10, 2013 at 1:50 pm

        Mind you, I should point out that I’m the guy who once sent a letter to the BBC demanding Tilda Swinton get the role of Doctor, and was jumping for joy when it seemed like Paterson Joseph was going to be Eleven, so take my views for what they are worth.

      • February 10, 2013 at 1:53 pm

        9-haters are LEGION in the DW fandom. (This is why I don’t go there; I just see the odd pretty gif or two from a couple of tumblr people who like 9.

        I have no idea why this is. I mean, I like Tennant well enough, he’s certainly a fine actor, and Smith’s not half bad (and I have a massive fuzzy for the arc of s5), but… Eccleston beats all. Hands down, for me. But maybe it’s just because I prefer the arc of healing from PTSD that Eccleston went through, to Tennant’s gloriously megalomaniacal fin. (Though I did very much appreciate that Davies took the Doctor’s god complex to its logical end – seriously, Midnight through End of Time is one relentless beatdown of his bullshit and that PLEASES ME.)

        But yeah tl;dr people hate Eccleston, Mac does not get it.

      • February 10, 2013 at 1:56 pm

        It’s similar to the “Tom Baker is the only Iconic Doctor” from ClassicWho, but mixed with more fannish obsession.

        YES. And with a side of “Ten can do no wrong he was the nicest and sweetest and most awesome doctor evar omg” which, excuse me, you are missing the point of Ten so hard that you’re actually breaking into another universe. I mean, RTD beats people over the head with his points, it’s not like it was HARD to see that s4 was basically chastising the Doctor, his companions and the fans for buying into Ten’s megalomania. Hence Donna, the Walking Smackdown…

      • LC
        February 10, 2013 at 2:08 pm

        Though I did very much appreciate that Davies took the Doctor’s god complex to its logical end – seriously, Midnight through End of Time is one relentless beatdown of his bullshit and that PLEASES ME.

        <3 <3 <3

        THANK YOU! This was actually one of the things I loved about the Ten run at the end. And the fact that it was done well is one of the reasons I've been so disappointed in seeing it sort of rehashed with Eleven, because it wasn't necessary. Eleven should have gone off in another direction.

        which, excuse me, you are missing the point of Ten so hard that you’re actually breaking into another universe


        Why are you in Alberta!? I need you here to talk some sense into people in Montreal.

      • EG
        February 10, 2013 at 2:08 pm

        I prefer the arc of healing from PTSD that Eccleston went through

        That’s what I love about 9 as well. I love that moment at the end of that season when he makes a different decision–he could choose genocide again and destroy the Daleks as well as Earth–and this time he chooses to be a “coward.” And that marvelous episode when he and Rose discover that one Dalek? And that scene when the tree-lady figures out what he is and he doesn’t look at her or respond but tears are running down his face? “Before the war, I was a father, and a grandfather. Now I’m only a doctor.” Brilliant.

      • February 10, 2013 at 4:39 pm

        There is a genuine sorrow and pain carried by 9, which I think links him back to old Who far more.
        There are elements of the travesty that was Colin Davies and Sylvester McCoy in Matt Smith. Tennant did carry the idea of God like monster to its logical conclusion, but only with Ecclestone do I think you get the idea he knows he is a monster.

      • LC
        February 10, 2013 at 2:19 pm

        Everything EG just said.

        Honestly, I would have been happy if they had just had that one Dalek episode to say farewell to the Daleks, and then never brought them back.

        As for the “Coward, every time”… have you seen ClassicWho? That always felt like a direct callback to “Genesis of the Daleks” where he has a chance to destroy them before they start, and won’t commit genocide.

        For me, THAT is the Doctor. Merciful in the end. Finding people to save in small, dark places when the rest of the world is busy looking at the big picture.

        I don’t like the Doctor saving the universe, I like the Doctor saving the people he can. For me that’s always been one of the strengths of Doctor Who. I think Harlan Ellison even wrote about it, how The Doctor managed to be more interesting than his villains despite not becoming a BadAss AntiHero, and that kindness was always part of what was motivating him.

        Finding his way back to that was a lovely story for me. Then Ten sort of went with “I don’t have to beat myself up over what I did anymore” and turned that into “No one can question what I do!” and had to learn to go away from that.

        It’s why as annoyed as I get with the show sometimes, I keep coming back. It allows for so much creativity that when it gets something right, it can get it very, very right.

      • EG
        February 10, 2013 at 2:24 pm

        kindness was always part of what was motivating him.

        I think that’s why I love him more now than I did when I was younger. More and more, I see the importance of kindness.

      • LC
        February 10, 2013 at 2:37 pm

        Default to kindness.

        I think there’s a sage or six that might have said something to that effect.

      • February 10, 2013 at 2:59 pm

        Yes! It’s my go-to mode whenever I’m befuddled – what is the kind thing I could do right now?

        Of course, I often kneejerk in other directions with no befuddlement at all. That sometimes works out well, but sometimes doesn’t. Being kind nearly always works out as some sort of improvement of a befuddling situation, at least.

      • February 10, 2013 at 2:37 pm

        one of the reasons I’ve been so disappointed in seeing it sort of rehashed with Eleven, because it wasn’t necessary. Eleven should have gone off in another direction.

        Okie, transcribing a very caffeine-deprived Valoniel (and I agree with her), it’s not so much a rehashing as much as Eleven reaping the consequences for Ten’s smuggery. (The whole “crook gets in trouble after retiring” trope.)

        Then Ten sort of went with “I don’t have to beat myself up over what I did anymore” and turned that into “No one can question what I do!” and had to learn to go away from that.

        See, neither of us sees that as having actually happened. The learning to go away from it, that is.

        Ten might have sacrificed himself in End of Time, but he never really saw the enormity of the consequences of his own bullshit god complex. Eleven got smacked with the immediate consequences of his blithe bounciness (all the stuff he did to Amy, etc) over s5, the greater consequences in s6, and now he seems to have gotten the point in s7, which is why he’s going around lowering his profile. Also, as Valoniel pointed out, Eleven’s more disposed, personality-wise, to actually understand and empathise with others and see himself as a situational villain even if he’s a general hero. So to speak. Ten didn’t really have that.

        All of this sounds really like trashing Ten, but I’m not, really. It was an organic arc for someone who’s so brilliant and so powerful, and who has so often been the centre of the universe and the only one who could save the day, and Tennant really brilliantly pulled it off. Honestly, it would have been way more unrealistic if he could have been Humble and had Perspective at the end of all that shit – talk about God Mode Stu anyone? – so yeah. Props to RTD and Tennant for that.

      • LC
        February 10, 2013 at 2:43 pm

        See, neither of us sees that as having actually happened. The learning to go away from it, that is.

        OK, I can see that, sort of, but then I just have to say that Moffatt botched it. Ten’s arc did feel organic, as you say, while I don’t find that with Eleven if you put it in this framework. I liked s5, but found s6 just terrible for the most part. s7 has started more interestingly, so we’ll see.

      • February 10, 2013 at 2:50 pm

        s6 was awful. Poorly plotted, poorly arc’ed and just generally badly written. There were a few good episodes (I really liked The God Complex and A Good Man goes to War), but overall? WTF. Also thank you, Moffat, for introducing a bloody awesome character like River and then turning her into All About Teh Lurve. I mean, FUUUUUUCK that. It really turned me off DW for a while. s7 seems better so far…let’s see what happens post the hiatus. And at least Amy and Rory got a good sendoff. A fairly wibbletastic one, even.

      • LC
        February 10, 2013 at 5:20 pm

        I liked The God Complex a great deal. I didn’t like A Good Man Goes to War very much, although I loved some of its moments.

        I agree with you completely about River.

        As annoyed as I am with the Angels, I did like the sendoff, and I always had a soft spot for them as a couple.

        I have been cautiously hopeful with s7 so far.

      • LC
        February 12, 2013 at 12:14 am


        Of course, I often kneejerk in other directions with no befuddlement at all. That sometimes works out well, but sometimes doesn’t. Being kind nearly always works out as some sort of improvement of a befuddling situation, at least.

        Right. Kindness is, sadly, not always the right answer. But as your default state I think it does pretty well.

      • LC
        February 12, 2013 at 12:11 am

        There is a genuine sorrow and pain carried by 9, which I think links him back to old Who far more.

        I also think that in that first series, where basically the Time War was used to make all ClassicWho sort of “Myth of What Went Before”, it just worked really really well.

        There are elements of the travesty that was Colin Davies and Sylvester McCoy in Matt Smith.

        Colin Davies? Do you mean Baker?
        I actually like Sylvester McCoy, although that was part the seeding of the Cartmel Masterplan and part a terrible fondness for Ace.

        Tennant did carry the idea of God like monster to its logical conclusion, but only with Ecclestone do I think you get the idea he knows he is a monster.

        I like that phrasing.
        I think Tennant re-learns he *can* be a monster, but Eccleston really has that bit where he can’t hide from the fact he *is* one.

  18. Donna L
    February 9, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    I . . . despise Donna to the core

    Gee, thanks.

    (I am not at all used to seeing fictional characters with my name, so it startles me when I do. It doesn’t happen very often, even though Donna isn’t that uncommon a name in reality.)

    • February 9, 2013 at 6:22 pm

      Oh NO Sorry!….now my Englishness is coming out

      (imagine a very flustered Hugh Grant in a onsie trying to apologize)

    • Donna L
      February 9, 2013 at 8:02 pm

      I hope you know that I wasn’t exactly being serious!

      • February 9, 2013 at 8:27 pm

        I do now!

    • February 9, 2013 at 8:32 pm

      If it helps, Donna’s my favourite companion! Lol, and you’re the second Donna I’ve known/of, so I kept thinking of her when I saw your name initially, actually….

      • Donna L
        February 9, 2013 at 9:26 pm

        With apologies for the digression, one of the reasons I picked “Donna” in the first place — and I hope I’m not endangering myself in any way by saying that yes, it is my name — was that it had no negative personal or cultural associations for me, and not really many at all. For whatever reason, even though it was a very popular name for girls in the 1950’s and 1960’s (I believe it made the top 10 at least once!), I never knew anyone with that name personally, and there weren’t a lot of well-known people who had it. There’s that Ritchie Valens song, and that’s pretty much it. So there was no baggage with it. I think my only concern was that for some reason I thought of it as more of a Catholic first name than a Jewish one, but my then-partner assured me that she didn’t think of it that way.

        And my partner and I tried out some other names (Karen is the only one I remember, and I have no idea why we thought of it), but none of them sounded right when she addressed me with them. I don’t even remember which one of us thought of trying Donna.

        I originally tried it out as an Internet name for a Yahoo email group (remember those?) that my then-partner and I joined in late 2002; until then, my partner just avoided calling me by name, and I had never previously been “myself” with anyone else, in person or online. It seemed to work, and it didn’t take long for me to get used to it, and by the time I was ready for my legal name change in 2005, I had no doubts. And have no regrets, other than the fact that had I been sure in 2003 that it was going to be my real name forever, I might have not have used it for a book about trans people and their partners that came out the following year, in which my then-partner and I were among the people the author interviewed and wrote about. Not that I said anything (or that anything was said about me) that I regret, but it is a rather well-known book, and some of what’s in it is kind of personal, and I’d be happier at this point if I’d used something other than Donna.

      • KittySnide
        February 9, 2013 at 9:55 pm

        Donna L, I don’t comment here all that often,
        but I do love everything you post. and I am so grateful for your willingness to be open and honest about your life and experience. I know it puts you in a pretty vulnerable place and I admire you so much. I’m not trying to be super fangirly or weird and I am still learning when it comes to trans issues so I do apologize if I say something off. but when I read what you write I can’t help but look up to you as a thoughtful and well-spoken woman and and I really do appreciate your words and your contributions to the conversations I read here.

      • KittySnide
        February 9, 2013 at 9:57 pm

        *”can’t help” was poor wording. I should have phrased it as “I look up to you because you are a thoughtful and well-spoken woman”.

      • Donna L
        February 9, 2013 at 11:16 pm

        Thank you; that’s very kind of you. Believe me, with all the awful stuff I end up reading on a regular basis while trying to participate in this community (and a handful of others), and trying at the same time to advocate for trans people in my own very small way, it’s very nice once in a while to know that my efforts aren’t wasted. And that people understand that it’s not so easy for me sometimes on a personal level.

      • KittySnide
        February 10, 2013 at 12:05 am

        I do see the cruelty you deal with, and I admire you for keeping on in the community in spite of it, though I don’t think anyone would blame you if you said, “no thanks, someone else can deal with this.”
        your comments have taught me a lot and spurred me on to research trans issues in my own area, which proved to be obviously necessary, and your comments on motherhood were so informative and useful this past summer when I got into conversations about Trevor MacDonald and the La Leche League and how our understandings of motherhood and fatherhood and parenthood are not as set in stone as some might prefer (I did not link you or quote you by name, just said that I had read writers who had maybe performed the original role of “fatherhood” but in reality are mothers so perhaps we need to redefine our terms or come up with some new ones… [I am sorry if this is unkind/incorrect wording? I do not mean it to be but am unsure what might be better]). but yes. thank you again, you have been very influential for me and I am very thankful!

      • February 10, 2013 at 1:07 am

        Donna, I also greatly appreciate your contributions here. It’s because of kind and empathetic trans* folks like you that I’m able to not feel alone and forever overwhelmed by the way society treats us. And personally, I even find you inspirational.

      • February 10, 2013 at 5:54 pm

        Late on this one, but just wanted to add my appreciation for your comments here too, Donna. Your willingness to be such a strong advocate for others as well as yourself is a valuable contribution to the community here.

  19. shfree
    February 9, 2013 at 6:36 pm

    So I was at work today, when another instance of standard shfree luck came into play, in which when something bad happens, it ends up not being nearly as bad as it COULD have been. Yes, when I was in the freezer, a box I was shifting fell on my face and broke my glasses, leaving me stressed about how the fuck I was going to afford a new pair. However, when I went to the optometrist, it turns out that the frames were still under warranty, the warranty does cover my own stupidity, AND they had the frames I had in stock, even though they normally wouldn’t. So, I’m sitting here with my new glasses, seeing things just fine, as the lenses survived the breakage as well. Given my propensity for accidental self-injury, as well as some questionable decisions made in my early twenties, that is a fine form of luck to have.

    • February 9, 2013 at 6:49 pm

      Hurrah for warranty! I’ve moved from needing reading glasses occasionally to needing glasses most of the time (not for driving yet, but I’m sure that’s approaching in the next few years). I hate the thought of something happening to my glasses.

  20. amblingalong
    February 9, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    So I’m hiring someone for an entry-level position and experiencing a lot of self doubt. It’d be so much easier if this was a position where performance was evaluated quantitatively, but the primary criteria here is likability and being able to work with a wide range of people. I’m second guessing myself when it comes to the reasons I’m finding people likable, because they line up so well with certain privileged identities.

    I work hard to eradicate those oppressive preferences and false beliefs in myself, I really really do; I also have become practiced at talking the talk even when, mentally, I’m not always walking the walk. I’m not trying to be deceitful so much as trying to not hurt people’s feelings despite when in my own head, there’s a little voice I can’t shut up whispering some nasty oppressive stereotype.

    So I’m supposed to hire somebody, and the entire time I’m alternating between thinking ‘This person is great,’ and ‘Do I think this person is great because she has tastes I associate with being middle class? Because she’s thin and conventionally attractive? Or because she’s actually great?’ I end up getting pissed off, against all logic, at social justice work itself, even though that’s diametrically opposed to the real culprit.

    Somehow the fact I haven’t gotten hired at places because of my oppressed identities just makes it worse. Like, shouldn’t I just get this? Or, when I’m feeling really frustrated: shouldn’t I just get a pass on this whole thing? It’s not like I’m rich and white, so why do I end up having all the angst?

    This isn’t meant to come off as woe-is-me; I’d rather be in this position than in the position of not getting hired because of how I look or my background (I’ve been there, it sucks). I just don’t really have many spaces I could vent this without professional repercussions.


    • A4
      February 9, 2013 at 11:04 pm

      One of the main problems social justice deals with is how people use these types of categories to dehumanize other people and turn them into caricatures. You don’t defeat these tendencies with rational calculation designed to mitigate your bias. You defeat them with empathy and trying your damndest to remember that everyone is a person who in their own head just feels like a person, not middle class or thin and conventionally attractive.

      The things that society think are important when looking from the outside are almost never the things that we each feel are important about ourselves.

    • karak
      February 10, 2013 at 1:27 am

      The most important criteria, though, is always doing the work: will this person be respectful to a variety of people? Will they rest on their assumed identity characteristics, or actually “do”? Do they view this work as something to be taken seriously as work?

    • amblingalong
      February 10, 2013 at 5:07 am

      Yeah, this is all good advice, and I appreciate it. What’s kicking my butt is that I can’t point to anything specific in my thoughts- it’s just that when I put together my ranking of all the various candidates, there were some really noticeable trends. Maybe it’s a coincidence, but it seems unlikely, and it’s just absurdly obnoxious realizing I have these totally unconscious biases (and against at least one identity I myself have for fuck’s sake).

      It’s not the first time I’ve had to challenge my own prejudices (by a long shot) but it’s the first time I’ve felt so helpless to do so. Yeah, yeah, it’s all hopelessly cliche.

    • tomek
      February 10, 2013 at 11:50 am

      if you are to hire which candidate is most like-able to people, then follow your biases will give you more success.

      whether it is good or bad thing, woman who is thin and conventional attractive will be more like-able than other woman (all other thing be equal).

      if you are hiring for mathematician. do you say… hmm here is two mathematician, one is better than other. however better one was born with more intelligence than other, so it will be unfair to use this difference to decide! no you do not. you simply hire more skilled mathematician. remove all bias is futile, it is there in our brains and we cannot escape.

      • A4
        February 10, 2013 at 3:41 pm

        remove all bias is futile, it is there in our brains and we cannot escape.

        This seem like hand wave premise.

  21. February 9, 2013 at 7:36 pm

    Gosh, I could use some advice…just because I’m in a situation I’ve never been in…
    Has anyone here found a friendship so stressfull and aggravating, that they had to ‘break up’ with a friend?

    • librarygoose
      February 9, 2013 at 7:57 pm

      Yep. I was friends with a guy in college who did nothing but constantly vent his angst and jealousy about his own best friend at me. I could deal with it up to a point, but after 4 years of it I just couldn’t stand to hear him talk anymore. I suggested he seek actual help for dealing with his self esteem and took a break that turned into never really speaking again. I felt horrible but it was to a point where I couldn’t trust myself to not just say, “Yes, you’re a useless hunk of flesh that no woman will ever love. You will die alone. Now can we move on?” So, to not hurt him I broke it off.

    • EG
      February 9, 2013 at 8:14 pm

      Yes. I had a friend in college who was so possessive and jealous that she threw a fit everytime I did something with someone else and didn’t include her, but when I did try to include her, she would either stand us up or talk about how much she hated what we were doing. When I realized that she was behaving in a way I wouldn’t accept from a boyfriend, I ended the friendship.

    • PrettyAmiable
      February 9, 2013 at 8:22 pm

      I had a friend who was monstrously depressed at a time when I was monstrously depressed. I couldn’t be a good friend to her, and when I tried, it made my depression worse. I broke up with her at the time.

      We actually made amends about a year or so later, when we were both healthier. I had a bit part in her wedding recently. I think I’m the exception, but I don’t know if either one of us would have gotten healthier if I hadn’t taken that step.

    • February 9, 2013 at 8:46 pm

      I broke up with my best friend two years ago, it sucked. I miss her.

      Do you ever read Captain Awkward, Steve? She’s had a few really good posts about breaking up with friends. I honestly have never read any of her advice that I’ve disagreed with. I recommend checking her site out.

    • kat
      February 9, 2013 at 9:55 pm

      yes, I was friends with this girl all through high school. But it was really toxic and one sided. I did break up with her in the end. I did the break up in a place that where she was comfortable. I took someone along for support. I wrote a break up speech outlining my problems with our relationship and why I felt it needed to end. I was so relieved after it was all said and done.

      One can break up with friends. it give closure. instead of avoiding the person you can say what you feel, and if things were to move forward in the friendship how that would look.

      have a support person there for the break up is key.

      Good luck

    • February 9, 2013 at 10:15 pm

      Thanks for all the responses, I specifically left out the details so i could get a wide variety of answers.

      Andie, strangely enough, the situation that came closest to mine was none of the above, but something from Captain Awkward’s site which I think you posted….basically one about a woman who thought she was way better friends with a guy than she actually was (though he used his wife as an excuse and I would never do that.)

      Basically, this person worked for me on-air and as an assistant (in fact if you look at my avatar thats her hand on the left side of my face and her hair on the other side,) and, while I’ll admit I’m not the easiest person to work with, there is a certain point at which I get sick of hearing what an annoying douchebag I am, plus there were money issues too, with her always needing an advance and the biggest issue of all, the constant self-disclosure which was not reciprocated. For example, while she goes into every detail about her life, I keep almost everything to myself to the point of, when I came back from Christmas vacation and I was really stressed, rather than tell her what happened, I printed out a page from the thread here on Feministe where I described my horrific Christmas day and just said ‘read this and you’ll understand if i’m a bit pissy this week.’

      So, obviously I’m far from perfect myself, especially as a boos, but I’m extremely fair in terms of work and money- so I’ve never had a problem with people putting up with my eccentricities. However, during a recent trip to Las Vegas for the CES, we had a massive blowout where she said so many mean and hurtful things to me that I decided we could never work together again- and basically never wanted to see her again. When she saw I had deleted her from Facebook she freaked out on me, texting me with all these threats about how she was going to fuck me (and the bosses,) over unless I called her to ‘discuss things like a mature person.’ So I did, and she told me she was fine with being fired but she made plans for the money and she was gobsmacked by me cutting her off as a friend, reminding me how her father and brother died early and of course I felt like shit. So I re-added her on Facebook, and arranged for her to get 4 months severance pay (on a part time job!)

      So, I hadn’t heard from her since I texted her with the news about the money she was getting, until two weeks or so later (i.e. today,) when she texts me just saying “Hi.” At which point I posted the question above on here. I decided the best thing to do was wait a few hours and text back a ‘hi.’ Thankfully,

      Is it wrong of me that I can’t get over some of the mean things she said to me to even have a friendly meal with her or something? Am I being an egotistical diva? Would it be rude of me to say “don’t look at is as losing a friend, look at it as gaining $10,000 dollars.”?

      Feel free to tell me if I’m behaving like an ass…I know I have the right to feel however I want, but I am curious if to the outsider I’m coming across as untenably immature.

      • February 9, 2013 at 10:32 pm

        Oh god run. Run like hell. Run very far away and never look back. o_O

      • Lolagirl
        February 10, 2013 at 5:29 pm

        It doesn’t sound to me like you’re being a jerk or unreasonable at all.

        Believe it or not, Steve, I actually quite often suck at confrontation irl. As a result, I’ve never had the nerve to go ahead and break up with a friend completely even when the necessity appeared to arise. But I have found that backing away slowly and being really way too busy to maintain contact with that person I don’t have the courage to dump as a friend has been quite affective.

        So that’s my longwinded way of saying that I would just quietly cut this person off and not initiate any additional contact with her at all. Because, quite frankly, she sounds like an emotional black hole.

      • February 11, 2013 at 6:53 pm

        Believe it or not, Steve, I actually quite often suck at confrontation irl

        I just realized how funny you were being here…but ‘funny cos it’s true’ funny…I’m the same way, and many people in my profession who, like me are loudmouths on the air, tend to be really meek types IRL.

    • February 10, 2013 at 12:57 am

      YESSSSSSSS. Don’t feel bad if you find it necessary, sometimes you need to cut people out of your life when they bring more bad into your life than good. I’ve also had people do it to me, and while it sucks and hurts, I would rather someone be honest and cut me out of their life than keep being friends with someone who doesn’t really want me in their life.

    • karak
      February 10, 2013 at 1:28 am

      Captain Awkward has done a lot of posts about either “breaking up” with friends or having a friend become a “sometime friend”. She gives really great advice, you should wander over!

  22. February 9, 2013 at 10:04 pm

    Jesus. Is the site weird and different for everybody (once you click on individual pages) or am I having a particular glitch? O_O @_@

    • February 9, 2013 at 10:05 pm

      …and now it’s changed again. I feel vaguely like I’m dreaming…

    • LC
      February 10, 2013 at 1:43 pm

      Oh, I’ve had that glitch! It usually seems to right itself after a refresh.

  23. February 9, 2013 at 10:17 pm

    Oh and since it’s in the thread title, I should point out the coolest bowtie EVER:


  24. A4
    February 9, 2013 at 10:49 pm

    Oh dear, I fear I’m only adding to the accounts of discord on this thread.

    I’ve been having issues with my many older siblings for a while. One of them in particular is so vastly egregious that he has damaged my relationships with the others. He will say the most bigoted, hateful, misogynistic or homophobic or racist things he can think of sometimes, and I don’t care whether or not he “means it”. He bullies me physically whenever he’s around, no matter how much I protest. He’s done this so often in front of my other siblings that I feel angry at them for allowing it to occur without doing anything, especially in the face of all of his outright homophobia. No matter what I say, how carefully I point things out, they seem to be able to ignore what is happening right in front of their faces. When I tell them about things he says when no one is around they think I am lying because his remarks are so terrible.

    They all think of themselves as liberal and open-minded people.

    So now I am on the outs with all of them, after months of protracted mind-games and skirmishes. Part of me feels relieved that things are finally out in the open, and they understand how hurt I feel, and at least I don’t feel crazy anymore.

    Another part of me feels sad because I thought that even though they’re all straight they would care enough to learn how to be allies, and that it would matter to them.

    The most confusing part is how often they all talk about love, and how they love me unconditionally, but it’s so in contrast with their actions and words that it just sounds like an empty sentiment that I’d be a fool to take seriously.

    • EG
      February 9, 2013 at 10:55 pm

      You know, love is a verb, something you do. And from what you say, it doesn’t sound like your siblings are loving you. And I’m really, really sorry.

      • February 10, 2013 at 12:14 am

        This is basically my reaction too.

    • librarygoose
      February 9, 2013 at 11:43 pm

      I’m so sorry you dealt with that. As one of many siblings I know for me the pain they deal out can be a special kind of terrible. I hope they get clue and realize the hurt they’ve caused you.

    • February 9, 2013 at 11:50 pm

      That’s just awful.

      I can definitely relate, too. My father is often overbearing, insensitive, and mean-spirited, and then he tells me that he loves me and wouldn’t wish anything bad for me (despite the fact that he yells at me when I don’t obey him and tries to guilt-trip and shame me often). I wish he understood that true love requires acceptance, empathy, and sensitivity, not empty words and gestures.

      I hope that your siblings change, or at least that you have friends and family members that are truly loving and sensitive.

      • A4
        February 10, 2013 at 12:12 am

        I do have some really just excellent friends which is nice. Even the ones I don’t get to talk to all that often because we’re far apart, it helps just to know they exist.

    • A4
      February 10, 2013 at 12:39 am

      Thanks to all of you for the kindness.

      • Donna L
        February 10, 2013 at 3:08 am

        I’m really sorry, A4. And I do hope that at some point your siblings (perhaps except for the one who sounds hopeless) realize how hurt you are by their lack of support, and that expressions of love don’t mean so much when their actions don’t show it.

    • John
      February 10, 2013 at 7:34 am

      Just remember that family you are stuck with, Friends on the other hand are the family you wish you had! So enjoy your friends and stay away from those who cause you hurt. Been there and done that. That is why I live 2,000 miles away from Family and surrond my self with friends! I do feel for you and wish you well!

  25. February 10, 2013 at 12:09 am

    This probably makes us horrible people, but the boy and I just spend 25 minutes watching out drunk ass neighbours across the street stumble home in the snow. We counted her falling 6 times, him 3. They were pulling cases of beer in a dolly cart. At one point he abandoned her in order to get the beer safely to the porch, THEN go back and rescue her from the snowbank.
    in fairness, we weren’t just watching for lulz.. We also wanted to make sure that if one or both of them fell and couldn’t get back up that we could get them to their house so they didn’t die of exposure.

    And that’s my Saturday night.

    • February 10, 2013 at 12:16 am

      LOL. Yes, you’re horrible horrible people. (No, you’re not.) And I must be horrible too, for laughing my ass off.

    • February 10, 2013 at 12:21 am

      I don’t think you two are “horrible.” That you planned on helping out if the situation got worse proves that. But it’s awful to hear that the man evidently cared more about bringing the beer to the porch than helping out the woman with him. People these days…

  26. February 10, 2013 at 12:18 am

    On the plus side: Valoniel is currently making me brownies for handfasting-wedding-anniversary tomorrow.

    On the minus side: she has threatened me with death in painful ways if I “go in there and stare mournfully at the brownies and make sad noises like that’s going to cool them any faster” (to quote).

    But…they smell good, damn it. :(

    • February 10, 2013 at 12:29 am

      Ouch. My life has been deprived of brownies for far too long. There are no brownies in sight and yet it’s as if I can already smell them. V_V

      Speaking of baked goods, my mom’s oatmeal chocolate chip cookies are pretty much the best things I have ever tasted in my life.

    • A4
      February 10, 2013 at 12:44 am

      This made me laugh

    • John
      February 10, 2013 at 7:36 am


    • Lolagirl
      February 10, 2013 at 5:40 pm

      Yay brownies, and Happy Anniversary to you and Valoniel!

    • A4
      February 11, 2013 at 3:54 pm

      Happy Anniversary to MacavityKitsune and Valoniel! Did you get to eat brownies yet?

      • February 11, 2013 at 5:31 pm

        Hee, thank you! THE BROWNIES ARE YUMMY.

    • GallingGalla
      February 11, 2013 at 4:39 pm


      Happy Anniversary to you and Valoniel!

      • February 11, 2013 at 5:32 pm

        Thank you, Galla! Brownies are fucking fantastic, and Valoniel’s are really yum. ^__^

  27. John
    February 10, 2013 at 8:30 am

    Stuff for the weekend. Since I am 9600 miles from home and working again this weekend like I have for the last 16 weekends You know what I’m doing! Yep Working! However, here are some ideas for others for things to do this weekend and maybe during this coming week and next weekend:
    Movies: Spaceballs, Clue, The Great Race, Its a Mad, Mad, Mad world, The Dirty Dozen, Kelly’s Hero’s, The Misfit Brigade, Hoodwinked and of course Blazing Saddles along with Young Frankstien!
    Books: Books by Ben Aaronovitch (start with Midnight Riot!), D D Barant (start with Dying Bites), J.R. Rains, Charline Harris (any of hers! however, since she writes the books that the HBO show True Blood is based on enjoy the books along with the show!) Karen Chance (Midnight Daughters Series) Jarad Diamond (any of his), John Ringo (Queen of Wands is great!)
    Ok these are my picks for the start. IMO these are good ones. If you don’t like them don’t read or watch them, but if you do send me some picks for me to read!

  28. LC
    February 10, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    Weekend work has been helping my friend plan the first issues of his comic book and reading over the draft of my sister’s novel to provide feedback.

    So it’s been a pretty good weekend.

  29. February 10, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    Question So I don’t give spoilers…where is everyone with Dr Who…Did you get the Christmas special and Souffle girl? (trying to code things here)

    • February 10, 2013 at 4:45 pm


      • February 10, 2013 at 5:14 pm

        [Moderator note: Beware spoilers, please! (more)]

        Cool, well then based on the Christmas special I hive high hopes for the new companion, I love the way she took charge of finding the Doctor, and that she is very savvy.

        Guessing from the trailers her “reappearances” throughout time are going to be the arc, but so far I like her, strong, clever and opinionated, kind of the best bits of Martha and Rose.

        I can even pretend she was a sex worker (It being common for Victorian barmaids) and thus piss off the idiot who asked when a companion was going to have a “proper” feminist job. Not sure if you saw that but she was outraged Amy was a kiss a gram, Donna a temp and Rose a shop assistant. Apparently she thought they might as well make the next one a stripper, cos what could be worse!

      • LC
        February 10, 2013 at 5:24 pm


        Of course, if we include ClassicWho we have companions (I’ll stick to the women) who were research scientists, schoolteachers, reporters, warriors, runaways, idle upper class, mathematical geniuses, mods, nutritionists, and a Time Lady.

      • Rhoanna
        February 10, 2013 at 10:49 pm

        Also Martha, who was a medical student, and then became a doctor after she stopped travelling with the Doctor.

    • February 10, 2013 at 5:11 pm

      I’d like to avoid new season spoilers on this thread, please. I’m up to date with the latest episodes, but that isn’t true for everyone, and if we start speculating re Souffle girl then we’ll threadjack the Open thread entirely.

      Looks like it might be a good idea for me to put up a Who fandom post in late March ready for the rest of S7 though.

      • February 10, 2013 at 5:13 pm

        Yesss please put up a DW post!!!

      • February 10, 2013 at 5:31 pm

        I’ve created a placeholder draft post to go up in the third week of March. That should give us all plenty of time to get even more excited as Auntie Beeb releases more trailers/teasers for the season return in April.

      • February 10, 2013 at 5:18 pm

        Argh can u delete then I just did a reply that was total speculation assuming everyone was at same space :-)

      • February 10, 2013 at 5:29 pm

        Done!Actually, I just reinstated that one. I don’t think that particular speculation is too spoiler-y, since the fact of a new companion was announced by the Beeb yonks ago even for those who haven’t seen the latest episodes.

        Let’s just be spoiler-sensitive, and keep it general, yes?

  30. Lolagirl
    February 10, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    Whining alert.

    So, today is my birthday, and I’m kind of denial about it. Not adding to the funness of it is that I somehow let the spouse rope me into being on vacation with FIL, his wife and SIL for this birthday in a tropical location I should love but don’t because I don’t do tropical beach vacations, at all. I hate hot weather, and I despise sand, I would rather die than don a bathing suit of any kind, and I would much rather be home in cold and snowy Chicago instead with our kids.

    At least the spouse seems to realize the error in judgment and is taking me out for a birthday dinner tonight, sans his family entourage. Happy to me!

    • February 10, 2013 at 5:48 pm

      Happy birthday to you, Lolagirl! Shame about the ungood holiday location, but at least the birthday dinner sounds good. Enjoy!

    • February 10, 2013 at 6:05 pm

      Eee, happy birthday! Mine’s on Wednesday lol. D: And that vacation sounds awful.

    • EG
      February 10, 2013 at 6:40 pm

      Happy birthday, Lolagirl. I hope the dinner more than makes up for the day.

    • Donna L
      February 10, 2013 at 11:49 pm

      Happy birthday, Lolagirl!

  31. GracieGrace
    February 10, 2013 at 9:09 pm

    This is kind of two points, but it is related. Also, I’m not too familiar with TWs, but in the case that it might be, potential ED TW.
    But here we go! Can I just put something out in the air? I keep seeing these things on Facebook and such about ‘this is a real woman!’ And showing a picture of a size 10 woman or something like that.
    Naturally, it’s not the size of the woman that bothers me, it’s the comment accompanying it. I’m a size 2. I was born with a very petite frame, and I freaking LOVE my body. I think I am B-E-A-UTIFUL. So why am I being told that I’m not a real woman because I don’t have meat on my bones? Why am I considered a sub woman?
    In addition, I used to see a guy who had an ex who had previously suffered from an eating disorder. She couldn’t see why her body (which was designed to be a size 8 or so) couldn’t be the same size and mine, but she tried. So my ex basically told me that I wasn’t allowed to make comments about my body because it would make other girls who weren’t a size 2 feel bad about themselves. I understand avoiding mentioning things like that around someone who previously suffered from an eating disorder, but he was basically telling me not to be proud of my petite frame unless I was in private. Is there any truth to that? Does anyone who’s a size 8 or so feel bad when someone of my size says something like ‘ooh just bought some jeans! Size 2!’ Or something like that? Should I just keep that to myself?

    • February 10, 2013 at 10:05 pm

      As a general rule, I think it would be better to just brag on your awesome new jeans without bringing the size of them into it.

    • EG
      February 10, 2013 at 10:42 pm

      Those of us who are built slenderly get plenty validation from the dominant culture. We don’t need to be throwing our clothing sizes in the faces of women who are bombarded with messages about how their worth depends on fitting their bodies into a design that is utterly unhealthy for them. It’s perfectly easy to wax eloquent about awesome new clothing without mentioning the size.

      Being proud about one’s thinness is like being proud of having straight hair. It’s not that there’s anything wrong with having straight hair, but in the context of our culture, it’s a mean thing to do.

      Honestly, I don’t know how it even comes up in conversation.

      • GracieGrace
        February 10, 2013 at 10:49 pm

        Just for the record, I’m not going around throwing my pant size in everyone’s face. Cause that’s rude and inappropriate. I think I was more upset that I was being told that I should feel bad about being born this way. Just to clarify. I hope I’m not sounding rude, because I fear that might be how it sounds.
        I love my friends that accept their bodies the way they are, because we’re all made that way and we’re all freaking gorgeous. And we’re all real woman, whether we’re size 0 or size 8 or size 14. THAT’S the point I’m trying to make.

      • EG
        February 10, 2013 at 10:54 pm

        Well, honestly, I didn’t see anything in your comment that indicates that you’re being told to feel bad about your body. Your ex asked you not to make comments about your body around a woman you know feels bad about hers. A random internet meme isn’t hurting anybody.

      • BBBShrewHarpy
        February 11, 2013 at 1:04 am

        Your initial point that thin women shouldn’t be excluded from the category of “real” women is well-taken.

        Everything else you wrote sounds like a cross between a humble brag with a dollop of gloating. The fact that your ex-bf picked up on this rings some alarm bells as does the othering of women who are larger than you, asking how someone a size 8 or so might feel as if this were some kind of species you can’t understand. So, I think you’re a bit obsessed with your size 2 body and it’s wearing on those around you, and that a bit of self-reflection might be good for you here.

      • DouglasG
        February 11, 2013 at 6:57 am

        Well, there’s at least one thing that’s changed, though perhaps it changed long ago. You make me think of Frieda from Peanuts, whose main topic of conversation was to draw attention to her Naturally Curly Hair.

      • EG
        February 12, 2013 at 1:50 pm

        It hasn’t really changed. Frieda not withstanding, think about hair in the context of racism and anti-semitism and how that gets coded as “professionalism” vs. “messiness.” I went to an alumna-student mentoring event at my alma mater, a progressive women’s college, and was told by students that they were advised to straighten their hair for job interviews at law offices and suchlike.

    • Donna L
      February 11, 2013 at 1:49 am

      Yes, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with objecting to the “real women” meme (or is it a trope? I can never remember the difference) when it appears on the Internet. I dislike it myself, not only for obvious reasons relating to my personal history, but because it’s often phrased as “real women have curves” or “real women have breasts” (implicitly, larger than those of whatever women are being complained about, as if small breasts don’t count at all). Which makes me feel very self-conscious, because I have small breasts.

      And if you ever heard anyone use that phrase in real life, or suggest that you must have an eating disorder, you’d have every right to object in that circumstance as well. But it doesn’t sound like the woman you’re talking about — or anyone else you know — actually used the phrase at all, let alone in a way that was hurtful to you. So I don’t see the connection between your resentment of the phrase and the rest of your comment. There are ways to talk about liking something you bought or the way you look in it without bragging to other women about your clothing size, or how great your body looks in it, especially when you give the impression that the fact that you wear a size 2 is the thing you like most about it. If you hesitate to say something because you’re afraid that it might make the person you’re speaking to feel bad, your instincts are probably right.

      • GracieGrace
        February 11, 2013 at 2:08 am

        Blergh thanks for understanding the point that I was trying to get across. Obviously I’m really REALLLLLLY bad with trying to explain it in a way that doesn’t make me sound like a stuck up brat. Which is the opposite of what I was trying to get across.
        I suffered from an eating disorder in high school so I get it. I’m not about to say something that might trigger someone into a downwards spiral because I’ve had that happen to me. And my ex’s ex is a wonderful, gorgeous, amazing, fantastic (and vegan) woman and I love her. I would never want to say anything that might hurt her. She’s a role model for me. My ex wasn’t saying it to reprimand me for a comment I’ve already said, more just as a warning. I guess that point I’m trying to get is that I don’t like how the media tells us we have to all hate ourselves. If you’re a size 16, you’re not right and you need to do something about it (which is not true, because the media SUCKS at telling us the truth). And if you’re a 0, you should hate yourself and be self-deprecating because it’s bad to be happy with the way you look. You should find something wrong with yourself and beat yourself up over it. NO NO NO. You’re beautiful, I’m beautiful, we’re all freaking gorgeous and should walk around and OWN OUR BODIES. I’m not perfect, that’s a fact. But no one is, so we should find what we like and wear it with pride.
        Does that make more sense? I really didn’t mean it to come out the way it did :( apologies from the bottom of my heart.

      • GracieGrace
        February 11, 2013 at 3:14 am

        And if there’s anything else I could change or word better to make it sound less thin privileged and more body-lovin’, I’d love the constructive criticism, Donna!

      • February 11, 2013 at 6:49 pm

        Yes, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with objecting to the “real women” meme (or is it a trope? I can never remember the difference) when it appears on the Internet. I dislike it myself, not only for obvious reasons relating to my personal history, but because it’s often phrased as “real women have curves” or “real women have breasts” (implicitly, larger than those of whatever women are being complained about, as if small breasts don’t count at all). Which makes me feel very self-conscious, because I have small breasts.

        I have seen it used in more of an anti-sexist kind of way which I don’t object to. i.e. a real woman can change the oil in her car, a real woman can do her own taxes, etc.

      • jemima101
        February 11, 2013 at 7:00 pm

        Actually I think they are just as sexist, deciding any kind of behavior identifies your gender is just excluding people.

        You are the gender you identify as, unless you are outside the binary, “real” is always a way to tell people that they are failing somehow, by being too fat, too thin, too feminist, too masculine, too intellectual, not intellectual enough…the list is endless.

        Am I a woman because I have large breasts or a philosophy degree, because I have a vagina or prefer anal sex, have given birth or dont really like kids over the age of 10?

      • February 11, 2013 at 7:09 pm

        Actually I think they are just as sexist, deciding any kind of behavior identifies your gender is just excluding people.

        I see what you mean, but the people I meant would be self-referring women, so there is definitely some irony involved and I see it as a play on the ‘real men’ trope. But most of my friends are performers and comedians, so I’m probably the wrong person to assess whether most people using that terminology are joking…

      • February 11, 2013 at 7:14 pm

        Am I a woman because I have large breasts or a philosophy degree, because I have a vagina or prefer anal sex, have given birth or dont really like kids over the age of 10?

        This is a good point…even though I have large breasts and dont really like kids over the age of 10, I identify as a man…

        (as for the other items, I don’t have a college degree or a vagina, have never given birth, and well, quite frankly my balloon knot is none of anyone’s business..)

  32. DouglasG
    February 11, 2013 at 7:16 am

    Although it is Monday, some of us in the Northeast may have an Extended Weekend thanks to all the snow:

    Less than a minute after I woke, I heard the announcement on NPR that the Pope will be resigning at the end of the month. (Back in my activist days, he was the Least Favourite Cardinal among the same-sexer RC set, an assessment which his tenure as Pope has probably validated to my old friends.)

    Much to contemplate.

  33. A4
    February 11, 2013 at 10:04 am

    Hi Y’all,

    I started physical therapy this morning for a strained hamstring, and my therapist wants to try Trigger Point Dry Needling on me. She thinks it will be especially effective in my case. I think I’d rather not have someone sticking needles in my muscles.

    Anyone ever had this done? I’d welcome all input.

    • PM
      February 11, 2013 at 11:54 am

      We did it at my old clinic. I’d say give it a shot! I would ask her to explain WHERE she is going to poke and WHY, and keep an eye on her when she gets the needles. She should open a fresh package in front of you. She is doing this along with other treatment modalities, right?

      • A4
        February 11, 2013 at 1:07 pm

        Yeah, today we did a few different kinds of stretching, and obviously she said the TDN was totally up to me. I’m hesitant because a) I prefer noninvasive treatment and b) I’d prefer to engage with treatment modalities that I can continue by myself in the future.

        She seems pretty enthusiastic about the needles though.

      • PM
        February 12, 2013 at 4:47 pm

        Some therapists just have their pet modalities. I am only a physical therapy student and I can’t speak to YOUR case specifically, but there are a million different ways to treat a strained hamstring. If you’re not comfortable with needling you should be able to recover just fine using another modality/modalities.

      • February 11, 2013 at 6:46 pm

        We did it at my old clinic. I’d say give it a shot!

        Please say that pun was intended.

      • PM
        February 12, 2013 at 4:44 pm

        Alas, it was not :/

    • Hrovitnir
      February 11, 2013 at 4:20 pm

      I’ve had acupuncture in the past and more recently had dry needling done (along with massage). I *think* it helped; it certainly loosened up a lot after that session. I’d give it a go!

  34. February 11, 2013 at 9:39 pm

    Hello again everybody! Whoops for the short outage – I forgot to untick a checkbox in the server admin, and everything broke. Fixed now.

  35. zaebos
    February 12, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    Everything about every post about any sort of rape kills me on the inside, but I have to read them all. I just -can’t- ignore any discussion. I’m shaken with every new report of a specific attack or statistics in general.

    What really bites into me; what really hurts is when MRA’s come in with “Wat bout teh menz?” I die a little inside every time I see that. For one, these people don’t actually care about victims, they just care about their crusade against feminism. Two, they spark debates about who’s important, and who isn’t.

    I’m tired of these people.

    • February 12, 2013 at 1:49 pm

      Hey, dude…hugs if you need ’em. I feel your pain. I don’t have rape triggers, but there’s other things that get to me and yet I can’t stop reading them…

      • zaebos
        February 12, 2013 at 3:52 pm

        Thanks. Hugs are always nice! With almost every single walk of life, victim blaming, denial, and mocking runs rampant. The safest thing to do is just to remain silent. Every time an attack is exposed or a story is told, I feel as if it breaks my silence. So while it triggers me, it’s important to me. Makes me feel, even if it’s fake, feel just a little bit less invisible. I’m not sure if that’s me being odd or not.

  36. February 12, 2013 at 9:58 pm

    Are all the #SOTU watchers too busy tweeting or something?

    [eta: I see Jill’s put up a #SOTU thread now]

  37. TomSims
    February 13, 2013 at 5:15 am

    Just came across a post by a woman named Cassie on a site called Victory Girls


    • February 13, 2013 at 6:08 am

      Cassie appears to have a problem with correct attribution: the quote she says was written by “Feminism 101” was actually a paragraph by somebody else entirely which was quoted on one of the FAQs as an example for the clarifying concepts section. Doesn’t give one much confidence in the accuracy of Cassie’s interpretations of other people’s writing.

      • February 13, 2013 at 10:02 am

        Slight derail, just noticed you are a mod there, I love that site, for personal learning and for sending trolls who want me to educate them to.

        Thanks for being part of it

      • February 14, 2013 at 12:35 am

        Thanks for the compliment, jemima101, and apologies for my delayed response. Compliments tend to freak me out a bit unless they’re from people I know really well (then I bask a bit), and I tend to freeze in the headlights when they arrive unexpectedly.

        But that’s my problem and you weren’t to know, and for anybody else who finds compliments awkward to handle I recommend this Captain Awkward thread – it helped me identify some of my issues around this.

  38. pheenobarbidoll
    February 13, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    from a friends FB-

    To anyone and everyone who has tried to keep us down, I offer the following:

    The Residential Schools wasn’t just where children were tortured and abused at a place far away from their families and homes. The Residential Schools were also injected into our communities like a slow poison through the brainwashing of generations of family members.

    But we have the antidote. It’s working. And our former strength is just beginning to return.

    We will fight with every single fucking cell in our body against your genocide. Against your war on life itself. Our very DNA will erupt with the songs of our ancestors as our fight grows beyond your cages of our minds, bodies, and spirits. The tighter you squeeze, the stronger we get. The more you deny, the louder we become. The faster you attack, the sooner we assemble. The more brutal your actions, the harder we become. We will not stop and we will not cower.

    Measles, smallpox, diptheria, influenza, cholera, typhus, mumps, chicken pox, pleurisy, scarlet fever, whooping cough, yellow fever, typhoid fever, and the Bubonic plague. Each and everyone of us have ancestors that have survived your diseases of the body while many others died.

    We are strong and getting stronger.

    Each and every one of us have ancestors that have survived the forced relocations and the forced marches and escaped the forced sterilizations and the massacres and the prisons while many others died.

    We are strong and getting stronger.

    Each and every one of us have endured the racism, the colonialism, the degradation, the assimilation, the dispossession, the despair, and the depression while many others succumbed.

    We are strong and getting stronger.

    Each and every one of us have survived the assassination attempts on our spirits and our memories and our histories and our heritages.

    We are strong and soon we will know it.

    … and so will you.

    And your genocide will stop.

    Wai WAH

    • February 13, 2013 at 2:46 pm

      That’s hugely powerful, pheenobarbidoll. Thank you for sharing it.

      Our parliament here in Australia just passed a bill paving the way for recognition of indigenous Australians in our Constitution, which currently reads as though Australia was devoid of any other people before Captain Cook planted the English flag in Botany Bay. The bill was presented before the House of Representatives on the 5th anniversary of the historic Apology to the Stolen Generations of indigenous children as part of a cruel forced assimilation policy. Slowly, ever so slowly, we are moving towards healing some of the wounds inflicted by centuries of colonialist dispossession and degradation here.

      10 years ago the idea of including Welcome to Country acknowledgements of traditional indigenous lands as a standard part of public speeches still seemed ridiculous to many people, who regarded it as a clumsy tacked-on piece of PC overreach. Now it’s simply part of how things are done.

      We are still a racist country where indigenous peoples are often treated barbarically by bigots. But the casual acceptance of such bigotry is shrinking with each act of public recognition and respect for indigenous traditions, and the nation is vastly improved by it. We have still got a long way to go.

  39. dc
    February 13, 2013 at 5:31 pm




  40. Arind
    February 14, 2013 at 7:03 am

    I got my semester results today.
    I got a 2.9 out of 4.

    I feel bad.
    Not because the score itself is not good but that i could’ve done so much better.

    Also, happy valentine’s day to all happy couples.

Comments are closed.