Unsolicited Naked Selfie Guy gets overexposed, and why I’m okay with that

[Content note: frank discussion of a man's... frank]

Say you’re texting back and forth on a dating app with someone, and it starts getting a little personal, and you think, “You know what I think this person would like to see? A photograph of my naked genitalia.” So you send the photo. And the other person says, “That’s disgusting! I’m posting that online!” And you say, “I’m so sorry! I seriously thought you’d want to see that. Obviously, I was wrong, and I apologize wholeheartedly. Please don’t post it online. I’m going to leave you alone now.”

Trevor didn’t do that.

Unsolicited naked-selfie sender Trevor found himself a lot more exposed than he’d originally intended when, via the app Let’s Date, he texted a photograph of his junk to an unwelcoming target. Rather than taking his continued harassment quietly, she posted a screencapped account of his harassment to his mother and to her Tumblr, whence it went viral. Internet response has been a mix of “Right on!” and “Serves him right!” with “That’s excessive” and “You wouldn’t feel that way if it were a woman and not a man.”

I’m pretty sure I would, though. Because it wasn’t just a naked picture (which is inappropriate enough unless you’re absolutely, 100-percent sure your recipient truly wants a look at your goodies). It was a junk shot followed by continued abuse. Like a man who catcalls a woman on the street and, failing to get a response, whips out his dick in an attempt to shock her, Trevor started with idle conversation, topped it off with his naked penis, and then doused it liberally with ongoing harassment.

You don’t like?

To big for ya

?

I was just showing you what I got

Relax

It’s only my cock

His target remains cool, telling him simply — and repeatedly — that she objects to being thusly disrespected by a complete stranger, giving him every opportunity to simply back out and stop being disgusting. But instead, Trevor chooses to double down and progress from disgusting to openly insulting.

Your a prude

No wonder your single

I have a big cock

It’s at that point that she finally responds with aggression.

And since you’re pretty easy to find on Facebook, Trevor [redacted] shall I send Mom [redacted] screencaps of this conversation? To show how you treat women?

I think I might do it anyway since you felt the need to harass me

Why do you think it’s okay to sexually harass girls you don’t know?

I honestly think you deserve to have that uncomfortable conversation with your mother.

It is right. She should know how you perpetuate rape culture. I am sick of being treated like this.

Suddenly, Trevor attempts to backpedal all the way to “thoughtful.”

I thought you would like it

Sure you did.

In posting screencaps not just of the naked picture but of the entire conversation (to his mother and then to the Internet at large), the poster wasn’t just exposing Trevor for exposing himself — she was exposing the entire series of ongoing harassment, wherein he piled abuse upon abuse because he felt like he was in a safe place where he could do so without suffering any penalty. Well, guess what, asshole? You weren’t. You thought you could create a safe place for yourself by shocking and offending a woman into silence, but you picked the wrong one, and now it’s more than your dick that’s online.

Responses like this one, and projects like Hollaback, function to eliminate that perception of safety that allows harassers to think they can get away with harassment without penalty — and the reason they think that way is because they do get away unpunished all the time. Sending the screencaps to Trevor’s mother was a good move because it’s apparent from his response that that’s basically the only potential penalty that frightens him; posting them online sends a message to Trevor and to all the Trevors to try this shit and see where it gets you. It’s not just about one dick; it’s about all the dicks. And the penalty, in this case, perfectly fits the crime: You want unwanted exposure? You get unwanted exposure. Tell your mama Feministe says hi.

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238 Responses

  1. macavitykitsune
    macavitykitsune June 14, 2013 at 1:13 pm |

    “You wouldn’t feel that way if it were a woman and not a man.”

    I love that this is a thing, like a) there’s masses and masses of women out there sending (vulva/ breast? what even is the deal?) pics to men against their will. (For anyone tempted to say there aren’t masses and masses of men doing this: I humbly present to you the internet. Also, set up an OKC account that literally says nothing aside from “Hi I am female!” and watch the dick pics pour in.)

    And if there were, I would approve of outing just as heartily, frankly. I don’t want to be given a Gratuitous Vulva Shot any more than Ur Str8 Chick would want a dick pic.

    1. amblingalong
      amblingalong June 14, 2013 at 1:32 pm |

      Not that I disagree that women have it worse, but as long as we’re talking about this, I have definitely dealt with months-long harassment from a woman which included, along with other stalking behaviors, sending me nude pictures. I’ve also been in much less upsetting situations where someone has just thought we’re at a place in our flirtatious texting relationship that we’re not, which I tend to respond to with good humor.

      1. macavitykitsune
        macavitykitsune June 14, 2013 at 1:41 pm |

        Agreed. However, saying that masses and masses of women are not doing this =/= saying no women ever in the history of femaleness have done this.

        1. amblingalong
          amblingalong June 14, 2013 at 5:14 pm |

          Oh, sorry if it came across like I was disagreeing.

    2. Fat Steve
      Fat Steve June 14, 2013 at 3:38 pm |

      I love that this is a thing, like a) there’s masses and masses of women out there sending (vulva/ breast? what even is the deal?) pics to men against their will. (For anyone tempted to say there aren’t masses and masses of men doing this: I humbly present to you the internet. Also, set up an OKC account that literally says nothing aside from “Hi I am female!” and watch the dick pics pour in.)

      And if there were, I would approve of outing just as heartily, frankly. I don’t want to be given a Gratuitous Vulva Shot any more than Ur Str8 Chick would want a dick pic.

      Although the frequency of ‘selfies’ might not be that different between men and women- the ‘against their will’ thing is the key part of mac’s comment. What the original point of “You wouldn’t feel that way if it were a woman and not a man,” fails to miss is the Jill’s whole point in that the harassment may have began with the sending of the picture- but that was just a small part of it.

      Recently I was in a club and a woman I was chatting with asked me for my number, then she went to the bathroom and sent me a picture of her thonged ass. Now I’m sure I would have loved this if I wasn’t married, but it made me exceptionally uncomfortable and just the look on my face made the person who sent the photo extremely embarrassed. Harassment over.

      I guess what I’m saying is that just as many women may be sending out nude pics, they are mostly (ambling’s exceptions noted) doing it in a non-harrassing way.

      1. Fat Steve
        Fat Steve June 14, 2013 at 4:12 pm |

        @Caperton

        Oops, sorry, just realized I misattributed the post to Jill…stupud mistake on my part- don’t want you to think I’m unappreciative of your contributions.

    3. Joe from and alternate univers
      Joe from and alternate univers June 20, 2013 at 12:33 pm |

      I love that this is a thing, like a) there’s masses and masses of women out there sending (vulva/ breast? what even is the deal?) pics to men against their will.

      This just refers to this particular sentence above: I’ll just say when a girl or woman sends an unsolicited photo of her breasts (usually) to a guy and he forwards it to others or posts it online, she becomes the victim. And if anyone suggests that she shouldn’t have sent it, they are accused of blaming the victim. This goes for online posts as well; pictures of yourself that you post on Facebook are, by their nature, unsolicited. When friends click to see your new pictures, they have no idea of what they are about to see.

      That being said, what this guy did was horrible and he’s learning a powerful lesson.

    4. Joe from and alternate univers
      Joe from and alternate univers June 20, 2013 at 12:40 pm |

      And if there were, I would approve of outing just as heartily, frankly. I don’t want to be given a Gratuitous Vulva Shot any more than Ur Str8 Chick would want a dick pic.

      This I agree with.

  2. pheenobarbidoll
    pheenobarbidoll June 14, 2013 at 1:19 pm |

    You want unwanted exposure? You get unwanted exposure. Tell your mama Feministe says hi.

    Yuuuup.

  3. Barnacle Strumpet
    Barnacle Strumpet June 14, 2013 at 1:21 pm |

    I can get behind sending the information to his mother, maybe. That’s an individual with likely much influence over him and his behavior, and would teach him his lesson and give a little payback.

    Other than that, in a case where it’s very unlikely that the photo is going to be spread any further (who’s mom would put them on the internet, after all?) I am very leery of this kind of thing.

    There is already enough “You pissed me off? And i have intimate or embarrassing photos of you? let’s let the whole internet see.” out there. And in most cases it’s been used against women.

    So while it’s nice for a harasser to get his comeuppance for his once, I don’t see how it’s justified to try to take photos sent with the expectation that they’ll be seen by limited eyes, and spread them to the internet.

    There’s a block function on almost every site, and given that she knew his real name, she could always take legal action.

    1. tigtog
      tigtog June 14, 2013 at 1:33 pm | *

      I see it as more of a Public Service Announcement, because I don’t believe this stuff is just some awkward harmless flirting – it’s a power play of forcing an unsolicited boundary-crossing, and she’s right to call him on it in a way that other would-be power players also see the lesson.

      Thomas at Yes Means Yes Blog | Hypothesis: The Purpose Of The Cockshot Is To Test Boundaries

    2. Anon21
      Anon21 June 14, 2013 at 1:34 pm |

      So while it’s nice for a harasser to get his comeuppance for his once, I don’t see how it’s justified to try to take photos sent with the expectation that they’ll be seen by limited eyes, and spread them to the internet.

      I think you basically forfeit that expectation when you send them at someone as a form of harassment.

      1. taylor
        taylor June 14, 2013 at 1:43 pm |

        Totally agree. It is a different situation when, say, a couple takes nude photo/video of themselves to share with each other. An unsolicited dick pic with pushy harassment along with it is, IMO, fair game to be shared with the internet at large.

      2. Lolagirl
        Lolagirl June 14, 2013 at 1:57 pm |

        I agree, but I would take it a step further and say that you forfeit your expectation of privacy the second you put anything, personal junk or otherwise, out on the internet. Like it or not, the internets are not a safe space. The best analogy I can come up with is that it’s like doing or saying whatever on a street corner, and taking your chances as to who may happen to be strolling by and seeing/hearing/ watching you.

        Hence you and I and pretty much everyone else here posting pseudonymously. Hence, why one should be circumspect when it comes to taking naked photos of oneself, never mind sending them out in to cyberspace, without a thought as to whether or not that “selfie” will get out of your grasp.

        That this sexist pig got his comeuppance in a rather jarring way? Yeah, I can’t muster much sympathy for him.

        1. Anon21
          Anon21 June 14, 2013 at 2:01 pm |

          Hence, why one should be circumspect when it comes to taking naked photos of oneself, never mind sending them out in to cyberspace, without a thought as to whether or not that “selfie” will get out of your grasp.

          In practical terms, I agree that one takes a risk by emailing a revealing picture or video. In ethical terms, I think it’s wrong to widely disseminate a requested/desired naked picture because you’re mad at the sender.

          Hence you and I and pretty much everyone else here posting pseudonymously.

          My mother is weeping at your cavalier dismissal of my carefully-chosen name.

        2. Lolagirl
          Lolagirl June 14, 2013 at 2:12 pm |

          In ethical terms, I think it’s wrong to widely disseminate a requested/desired naked picture because you’re mad at the sender.

          I hear you. But, I dunno, I can’t even wrap my mind around sending a naked selfie to anyone, let alone a virtual stranger, in the first place. In this case, the photo was done in a not too thinly veiled attempt to sexually harass the reluctant receiver. So think the don’t do it because you’re pissed part of your scenario is not quite so applicable.

          My mother is weeping at your cavalier dismissal of my carefully-chosen name.

          LOL!

        3. pheenobarbidoll
          pheenobarbidoll June 14, 2013 at 2:20 pm |

          In ethical terms, I think it’s wrong to widely disseminate a requested/desired naked picture because you’re mad at the sender.

          Being the victim of sexual harassment and taking action to STOP IT is not “being mad at the sender”.

        4. Anon21
          Anon21 June 14, 2013 at 2:43 pm |

          Being the victim of sexual harassment and taking action to STOP IT is not “being mad at the sender”.

          I really don’t see how you possibly got that from the combination of my first post and the “requested/desired” part of my second post.

        5. pheenobarbidoll
          pheenobarbidoll June 14, 2013 at 3:03 pm |

          Sorry, had meant to quote

          “You pissed me off? And i have intimate or embarrassing photos of you? let’s let the whole internet see.” out there.

          and just didn’t read where I scrolled to when I saw being mad at the sender.

    3. Barnacle Strumpet
      Barnacle Strumpet June 14, 2013 at 3:29 pm |

      Pheeno, I did not mean to imply that this [the instance with Trevor] is a simple case of reacting in anger, and nothing more. With that line, I was speaking of women and they way their naked photos are treated. Which is, as being perfectly fine to put all over the internet, if she broke up with the photo recipient, cheated on them, or is the other woman.

      It’s a different situation in that in those cases, the woman is not committing any crime or harming anyone, but still. It makes me in general uneasy at allowing any reason to spread such photos (other than the photo subject’s desire for them to be spread).

      Even in a case like amblinglong experienced, where a woman was sending harassing naked selfies, I admit I would be a lot more uncomfortable with the female harasser being treated the way Trevor was. Trevor’s photos are the subject of mocking; a female harasser’s pics would be viewed as titillating and would be the subject of how hot (or not) she is, and would be a case where a woman’s naked body is exposed against her will to the leering of strange men.

      Perhaps I am wrong but it makes me uneasy.

      1. amblingalong
        amblingalong June 16, 2013 at 2:29 am |

        Even in a case like amblinglong experienced, where a woman was sending harassing naked selfies, I admit I would be a lot more uncomfortable with the female harasser being treated the way Trevor was.

        I didn’t do that because I’m generally not a big fan of actions that don’t gain me anything- revenge doesn’t hold a lot of appeal for me- but frankly, I think it would have been utterly justifiable. Once you send someone naked pictures of yourself as a method of sexual harassment, you lose the right to control what then happens to those pictures.

        1. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 16, 2013 at 2:42 am |

          Once you send someone naked pictures of yourself as a method of sexual harassment, you lose the right to control what then happens to those pictures.

          This is basically my argument (along with that we don’t actually know if any of this happened, so arguing about the ethics of the woman sending the pic to his mother is pretty much moot). I don’t see why we’re disagreeing?

        2. amblingalong
          amblingalong June 16, 2013 at 2:57 am |

          I agree 100% that this woman had the right to post the pictures on the internet. I think that, based on the information in the article, it sounds like she also sent Trevor’s mother a nude picture of him, which I think is completely unacceptable regardless of quibbling over exactly what computer setup the mother may or may not have. I recognize that I don’t have all the information, but given the information here, I think the woman in question behaved profoundly hypocritically by essentially duplicating Trevor’s original sin.

        3. TomSims
          TomSims June 16, 2013 at 11:34 am |

          @amblingalong

          Spot on. Two wrongs don’t make a right!

        4. Mariucel
          Mariucel June 17, 2013 at 8:47 pm |

          I don’t think I agree.

          Female bodies and identities online are much more subject to specific oppressive practices than male bodies are.

          This is not a simple equivalence. Exchange the gender and you have a very different situation.

      2. amblingalong
        amblingalong June 16, 2013 at 3:01 am |

        would be a case where a woman’s naked body is exposed against her will to the leering of strange men.

        This logic kinda pisses me off, frankly. If a woman forces someone to see a photo of her naked body against their will, I really think what she wants in terms of that photo’s exposure is utterly irrelevant. The idea that you should be able limit your harassment to the victims you chose is sorta nauseating.

    4. Lindsay Beyerstein
      Lindsay Beyerstein June 15, 2013 at 5:44 pm |

      If send an unsolicited picture of your junk to a stranger, you have no reasonable expectation that it will stay private. None.

    5. lilith danne
      lilith danne June 15, 2013 at 6:11 pm |

      Yes barnacle it seems to me a lot more women are harmed by this kind of thing alot more than men. Men aren’t asked togtfo like women are so many women expect that they must show skin on the net and then their image is passed around. Very few women tell men dogtfo so its more harassing. it seem like something else should be done about net flashing.

  4. Jenni Levy
    Jenni Levy June 14, 2013 at 2:11 pm |

    I agree that he forfeited any right to privacy and I’m delighted that she sent the stuff to his mom and published the photos and screencaps – but after a discussion on FB, I’m uncomfortable with the fact that she published his mother’s info as well. His mother didn’t sign on for this, and his behavior shouldn’t translate to a loss of her privacy as well. IIRC, Trevor’s mom’s full name is in the screencaps.

    I know that anyone who wanted to could find her from Trevor’s info; I’m not saying she should have held back on publishing his name. Having your name linked to your son’s if someone goes looking is not quite the same as having your name and info published directly.

    1. Anna in PDX
      Anna in PDX June 17, 2013 at 5:08 pm |

      I am kind of not OK with the sending to his mom. Is he over 18? If not then I would kinda understand. I have two sons. If they behave like jerks as adults am I supposed to get dragged into it? Why? When is it their responsibility and not mine? I think this way of thinking is a way of buying into the idea that the mother is always repsonsible for her kids’ actions and needs to be shamed/embarrassed just like they are. Really? What about their dad?

  5. Lolagirl
    Lolagirl June 14, 2013 at 2:16 pm |

    Content note: frank discussion of a man’s… frank

    Apparently I am a 6 yo kid today, because this literally made me laugh out loud.

    1. Ledasmom
      Ledasmom June 14, 2013 at 6:18 pm |

      I’ll join you at the six-year-old table. I have juice and cookies.

  6. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve June 14, 2013 at 3:19 pm |

    I have no problem with the woman’s response and the threat to send it to his mother. Once it goes beyond the threat, then I’m not so sure. I don’t see why the mother needs to be brought into it, as, it’s not particularly pleasant for her and she had nothing to do with it.

    1. Lolagirl
      Lolagirl June 14, 2013 at 5:32 pm |

      Meh, it’s a guaranteed way to bring about a thorough shaming of this guy to send the photos to his mom.

      I would totally want to know if one of my kids engaged in such douchebaggery, and you bet I would shame him up and down for it. As far as forwarding along the peen pics, it insures that all and sundry know that the victim is not exaggerating or otherwise making up what he did. Also, it’s not as though mom hasn’t already seen said peen previously, thus, I doubt she would be traumatized by the pics themselves.

      Hopefully, I will raise my kids to respect others’ personal boundaries and understand how to otherwise conduct themselves in a respectful and proper manner. I will definitely be discussing no peen pics in particular when discussing how not to be sexual harassers.

      1. Fat Steve
        Fat Steve June 14, 2013 at 5:52 pm |

        Also, it’s not as though mom hasn’t already seen said peen previously, thus, I doubt she would be traumatized by the pics themselves.

        She probably hasn’t seen it in it’s adult aroused state. I think telling her about it is ok, shaming her about it less so- but screencaps of her adult son’s erect penis seem like overkill.

        1. Lolagirl
          Lolagirl June 14, 2013 at 8:01 pm |

          Well that sounds like a great warning to give the kiddies wrt to naked selfies, take extra care because it most definitely may get back to mom and/or dad. Literally. Which just circles back to my initial point that taking and sending naked self pics must always be done with extreme caution, and without obliviousness that once you put it out there, it is forevermore out there and outside your total and exclusive control.

          Use said pics to sexually harass and abuse others, and you deserve it when what goes around comes back to bite you in your naked ass.

        2. Fat Steve
          Fat Steve June 14, 2013 at 11:40 pm |

          Well that sounds like a great warning to give the kiddies wrt to naked selfies, take extra care because it most definitely may get back to mom and/or dad. Literally. Which just circles back to my initial point that taking and sending naked self pics must always be done with extreme caution, and without obliviousness that once you put it out there, it is forevermore out there and outside your total and exclusive control.

          Use said pics to sexually harass and abuse others, and you deserve it when what goes around comes back to bite you in your naked ass.

          Hmmmm, Lola, I would have thought you might count it as a small personal victory that I considered the mother’s feelings in this case, as the exchanges we have recently had have caused me to note more of the ways in which mothers get the raw end of the deal.

          Oh well, I suppose we are destined to disagree on EVERYTHING! ;)

        3. Lolagirl
          Lolagirl June 15, 2013 at 5:25 pm |

          I get where you’re coming from, Steve, I’m just offering another perspective the mother here might have.

          It is entirely possible that mom was horrified and even traumatized by receiving the forwarded naked selfie. But I still maintain that her anger should and may very well would be directed at her kid, not the woman who forwarded the pic. And if she is the sort of mother would cover for and otherwise make excuses for what he did, receiving the forwarded selfie would make it impossible for her to deny that he did what he did.

        4. LotusBecca
          LotusBecca June 16, 2013 at 5:51 am |

          In my opinion, I don’t think the fact that this woman was harassed by Trevor justifies her in harassing Trevor’s mom. I could see the justice behind messaging Trevor’s mom and being like. . .”hey, sorry to bother you. . .but your son has been harassing me, and I wanted to talk to you about it. Would you be willing to have this conversation?” But nonconsentually sending the mom a transcript of the entire conversation (with the picture) right out of the gate is just as much of a boundary violation of the mom as the original incident was a boundary violation. Trevor’s mother is not responsible for her son’s actions. She is a separate person and does not have any responsibility to stay abreast of his activities or discipline him when he fucks up. Honestly, bringing the mom into this seems to me to be predicated upon misogynistic beliefs that mothers are somehow responsible for everything their children do and that their children’s ill behavior reflects poorly on them and their parenting.

        5. Lolagirl
          Lolagirl June 16, 2013 at 7:38 am |

          As I have stated repeatedly, I would want to know if one of my kids were sending unsolicited peen picks to sexually harass others. Even if he were an adult. And I would give him he’ll for it and threaten to cut him off for it if he did not seek some sort of ameliorative steps as a result.

          Others mileage may vary. And sure, no parent is responsible for their adult child’s conduct. On the other hand, the way that family relationships function is to provide moral support as well as a general moral sounding board for life decisions big and small. I can see the arguments for why it is sexist to expect mothers to police their adult kids, however, as one of the people responsible for inculcating moral values into our kids, I would want to know if I screwed up somehow and didn’t do enough. And btw, the spouse would feel the same way and would react the same way.

          Also, can general we stop shooing away the voices of actual mothers here in this discussion saying they would not feel harassed by receiving this photo and that thy would want to know about their kid’s harassing behavior? I’m not saying mothers should be given the first, last and only word on the matter. Equal standing as a valid opinion is sufficient.

          Because, yeah, that is really starting to piss me off.

        6. Fat Steve
          Fat Steve June 16, 2013 at 11:00 am |

          as one of the people responsible for inculcating moral values into our kids, I would want to know if I screwed up somehow and didn’t do enough. And btw, the spouse would feel the same way and would react the same way.

          Lola, I for one am listening to what you say, and I personally don’t feel that this would be a screw-up on your behalf. Any number of things could be to blame, you can only ‘teach’ so much. Cetainly no oneed for you and spouse to blame yourself.

          I am curious though, what makes you buy into the assumption that Trevor’s mum will have the same attitude that you do, yet HER spouse will be a morally questionable cretin who high-fives his son for sexually harassing a stranger, not a reasonable concerned parent like your spouse?

        7. amblingalong
          amblingalong June 16, 2013 at 12:35 pm |

          Also, can general we stop shooing away the voices of actual mothers here in this discussion saying they would not feel harassed by receiving this photo and that thy would want to know about their kid’s harassing behavior?

          No, because it’s irrelevant. I know someone who genuinely enjoys it when strangers remark positively on her appearance. Such people exist. Their opinions on the validity of said behavior has zero bearing on whether it’s OK to do.

          The fact you’d be OK receiving a nude photo of someone without consenting to it doesn’t mean the behavior is OK in general, because not everyone else feels exactly the same way you do about everything.

        8. LotusBecca
          LotusBecca June 16, 2013 at 1:09 pm |

          Also, can general we stop shooing away the voices of actual mothers here in this discussion saying they would not feel harassed by receiving this photo and that thy would want to know about their kid’s harassing behavior?

          Hey Lola. . .I’m not sure if this was directed at me, at all, but I’m sorry if my comments have came across as trying to shut you out of the conversation. I certainly don’t think you should just shut up or whatever, and I actually find your perspective on this to be very interesting and informative. If there is a specific thing I’m doing or saying that seems silencing, feel free to let me know what it is because I don’t want to be doing such things, and I want to continue to hear about your thoughts on this topic.

          It’s hard for me to bring my personal experience to bear on this topic in quite as direct a way as you can. I’m not a mother, and I don’t intend to ever have children. I also usually dislike most men, and these days I tend to minimize the amount of time I have to spend around them. So imagining that I were to have an adult male child actually kinda freaks me out. And I doubt this is a one time, anomalous incident Trevor’s part. This guy is clearly an abusive, misogynistic asshole, and I’m guessing stuff like this is a pretty pervasive thing for him. So. . .if I were to imagine myself in this situation. . .I imagine that I would already know my son was like this, and I would probably be afraid of him and not like him very much. And while I might be interested to hear a story from a woman he abused, and if I had the spoons I would want to provide consolation to her, I would also appreciate it if she asked for my consent before giving me all the details of his shitty behavior. I’m guessing I would already be struggling with a lot of guilt over the fact that I had raised a son who had turned out to be so shitty to women. . .given the discourse that exists in our culture that blames mothers for everything their children do. And I could see myself being hurt if I felt like I was once again being blamed for having a jackass of a son, and I could also see being triggered by reading a detailed transcript of his sexism, since I probably would have already been at some point TARGETED by this sexism (and he probably also would have been transphobic and would have targeted me at some point in that way, too).

        9. Lolagirl
          Lolagirl June 16, 2013 at 1:15 pm |

          Bullshit it’s not relevant. Also, right back at you with the not everyone feels exactly the same way you do.

          I disagree with you that the victim should not have sent the peen pic to the peen owner’s mother, and I am just entitled to disagree with you as you are with me. Neither your opinion nor my opinion is the final word on the issue. Nor does my being a mother coloring my opinion on the matter disqualify that opinion as one worth expressing or discussing.

        10. shfree
          shfree June 16, 2013 at 9:22 pm |

          As I have stated repeatedly, I would want to know if one of my kids were sending unsolicited peen picks to sexually harass others. Even if he were an adult. And I would give him he’ll for it and threaten to cut him off for it if he did not seek some sort of ameliorative steps as a result.

          THIS. Though change peen to vulva. Parenting doesn’t stop as soon as the age of eighteen hits, for crying out loud. When I was pregnant my mother gave me some very strong reminders on her stance regarding spanking, (firmly against) and I was in my late twenties. That was a parenting moment of hers, right there.

          Look, I have absolutely done my level best to not play the mom card, here, but our babies are our babies for our whole lives if you maintain enough of a relationship where you are at least facebook friends. And whether or not I would interpret someone passing along proof of my daughter’s bad behavior as shaming me for bad parenting really isn’t germane to all of this, because the crux of it all would be that my daughter had behaved badly, and damned if I would let that shit stand. If at some point they said to me “Because your daughter did x and y, you parented badly”, that would be a different story.

          The fact remains, I love my daughter to pieces. I want to know if she fucks up, because I am always and forever her parent, and it is always and forever my job to teach her, to remind her, that she is better than that. I hope I never have to come across anything really ugly, because she would never DO anything really ugly. But, it’s kind of our job, as parents, to face that shit if it happens, no matter how old we are, or how old the child is.

        11. Fat Steve
          Fat Steve June 16, 2013 at 9:32 pm |

          The fact remains, I love my daughter to pieces. I want to know if she fucks up, because I am always and forever her parent, and it is always and forever my job to teach her, to remind her, that she is better than that. I hope I never have to come across anything really ugly, because she would never DO anything really ugly. But, it’s kind of our job, as parents, to face that shit if it happens, no matter how old we are, or how old the child is.

          shfree, do you think you have the right to know every time she fucks up? Do you think it’s right for a stranger to inform you if she does a line of coke, cheats on her husband, or fudges her taxes?

          I get sending Trevor’s pic to his mom, despite not necessarily agreeing with it, I even agree with it if you know her and you’re reasonably sure telling her will have a corrective effect on her behavior. But to assume that she wants to know despite you not knowing her is a totally different thing, as is the assertion that she has the right to know about every one of her adult offspring’s ‘fuck-ups’ and I don’t think that’s what’s up for argument here.

        12. Fat Steve
          Fat Steve June 16, 2013 at 9:38 pm |

          correction:

          meant to say:

          “corrective effect on HIS behavior”

          (It wasn’t an intentional mistake to prove the point that the mother is being blamed…)

        13. shfree
          shfree June 16, 2013 at 10:26 pm |

          Steve, I’ll clarify by “fucking up”, I mean being abusive to another person. If she cheats on her taxes, how she negotiates her relationships, and whether or not she does drugs, that’s her thing. But if she harms another person, damn straight I want to know, and I consider it my job to correct that shit. And I do think that harassing another person the way Trevor did is abusive, and at least deserves a “Cut this out. This is not how you treat other people.” from someone important to him.

          I mean, maybe other parents can shrug their shoulders and not care when they see or hear of their adult children doing harm to another and not feel the need to step in and do something, but that attitude is just so…reprehensible to me.

        14. Fat Steve
          Fat Steve June 16, 2013 at 11:13 pm |

          Steve, I’ll clarify by “fucking up”, I mean being abusive to another person. If she cheats on her taxes, how she negotiates her relationships, and whether or not she does drugs, that’s her thing. But if she harms another person, damn straight I want to know, and I consider it my job to correct that shit. And I do think that harassing another person the way Trevor did is abusive, and at least deserves a “Cut this out. This is not how you treat other people.” from someone important to him.

          I mean, maybe other parents can shrug their shoulders and not care when they see or hear of their adult children doing harm to another and not feel the need to step in and do something, but that attitude is just so…reprehensible to me.

          I would be exactly the same way. However, I’m thinking of a specific example in my family which is NOT that, but also not reprehensible. The thing I keep thinking of is that I can say with 99% certainty that if my mother-in-law was given this information about my brother-in-law it would make her distraught, yet she wouldn’t in a million years confront him about it (numerous examples in the past bear this out such as the time his ex-wife told them he was doing coke and all they did was worry about it.

          I’d be willing to consider that my mother-in-law is the exception but I’m just it doesn’t always fall into easy categories of reprehensible/non-reprehensible.

        15. LotusBecca
          LotusBecca June 16, 2013 at 11:52 pm |

          But, it’s kind of our job, as parents, to face that shit if it happens, no matter how old we are, or how old the child is.

          This sentence really helps illustrate for me why I’m looking at things differently here than you and a lot of other people. I basically just don’t believe that parents have ANY responsibility to ensure that their children behave ethically. I believe the only responsibility that parents have to their children is to not abuse their children, not to control their children, and not to tresspass on their children’s boundaries. I don’t even believe that the parents of minors have a responsibility to love their child or provide for their child’s material needs (this is a responsibility of society in general–not individual parents in my opinion). And I certainly don’t believe parents have a responsibility to discipline their child or guide their child’s ethical development. . .not as minors and definitely not as adults. Trevor is a individual with his own mind and his own will; his mother is no way responsible for him or his abusive actions.

        16. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
          The Kittehs' Unpaid Help June 17, 2013 at 12:04 am |

          And I certainly don’t believe parents have a responsibility to discipline their child or guide their child’s ethical development. . .not as minors and definitely not as adults.

          Then who the hell does have that responsibility? Teachers? Strangers? Talk about abdicating some of the most important parental responsibilities. Kids don’t develop ethical understanding on their own, or in a vacuum. Why become a parent if you’re not going to teach and guide the child?

        17. LotusBecca
          LotusBecca June 17, 2013 at 12:12 am |

          I think the main way children develop certain behavioral tendencies is through modelling what they see the adults around them doing and what they see other kids doing. So if you want kids to act a certain way. . .the only real shot you have in getting them to act that way is by acting that way yourself and hoping they decide to copy you. On the other hand, I think our society’s tendency to believe that people in positions of authority (like parents) have a responsibility to tell their subordinates what is right and what is wrong (and discipline them when they fuck up) results in a lot of hypocrisy and injustice. I certainly don’t think it results in ethical behavior in most cases.

        18. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
          The Kittehs' Unpaid Help June 17, 2013 at 4:23 am |

          We’re never going to agree on this subject, so rather than pursue what’s only going to turn into an unprofitable derail, I think I’ll leave it at that! :/

    2. Kierra
      Kierra June 14, 2013 at 6:52 pm |

      Do we know if the mom was sent blurred-out pictures or not? I think if you blur out the explicit bits but leave the face visible, then you side-step the “sending naked pics to an unsuspecting person” issues.

      1. Alexandra
        Alexandra June 14, 2013 at 8:15 pm |

        Really? Is it the nudity itself that’s the issue here, or the fact that you’re publicly humiliating someone? because it seems the humiliation is about the same whether or not the pic is blurred or not.

        1. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
          The Kittehs' Unpaid Help June 14, 2013 at 9:48 pm |

          He’s a sexual harasser and you’re worried about humiliating him? Or am I reading your comment wrong?

        2. Alexandra
          Alexandra June 14, 2013 at 10:33 pm |

          Oh, I’m not worried about him. My point was, the reason you’re sending pics to his mom isn’t because the fact that her son is occasionally naked is going to cause her distress – it’s to humiliate the guy by revealing to his family members that he’s the sort of person who exposes himself to strangers. Blurring out his genitals isn’t going to lessen the humiliation any.

          I have no issues with this as a form of retaliation or self protection. I wish I’d thought of it first…

        3. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
          The Kittehs' Unpaid Help June 15, 2013 at 1:21 am |

          Oh, gotcha! Sorry, I had a confused. :)

        4. Kierra
          Kierra June 15, 2013 at 9:09 am |

          @ Alexandra

          I’ve seen some commentors on this story (Fat Steve above and Megan below) make the point that the harasser’s mother didn’t ask to be sent naked pictures of her son and that the situation is a little unfair to her. I was just pointing out that if the picture is strategically blurred out, then you still get the shaming aspect for the harasser, while mitigating the nakedness issue.

    3. lilith danne
      lilith danne June 15, 2013 at 6:16 pm |

      Thanks Steve his poor mother got an unsolicited pic of her son from this women she is a women too but I guess her feelings of harassment are voided by the fact she has a butthead for a son

      1. Anna in PDX
        Anna in PDX June 17, 2013 at 5:12 pm |

        yes, this is how I felt. I agree with all those who say they’d still like to parent their kid and still think it is their right to do so after the kid is an adult. But actually, it’s not their right or responsibility once the kid is an adult. He is only legally responsible for himself. Would anyone like mothers to go to jail if their son rapes someone? What about fathers? I also think one could contact the parents to say “your adult kid harmed me or harrassed me” without sending them the pictures – what is the point here? Besides just being awful to a stranger, even though they may have had a jerk son?

        1. Anna in PDX
          Anna in PDX June 17, 2013 at 5:14 pm |

          Not entirely clear, sorry, I meant to say that while I agree that parents of adults (of which I am one having two grown sons) would want to continue to influence their kids and hopefully still can, the fact remains it is neither a right nor a responsibility because really, after they are adults it is up to the kids. Once they are on their own, all we have is the influence gained from a lifetime of hopefully responsible parenting.

    4. lilith danne
      lilith danne June 15, 2013 at 6:18 pm |

      Yes his poor mother she received an unsolicited pic of her son by this women she harassed her why doesn’t it count as abuse?

    5. Andie
      Andie June 16, 2013 at 10:25 am |

      I’m torn on the sending the pics to his mom thing. On one hand, I totally think this guy deserves shaming three ways from Sunday. I also agree with LolaGirl that if my kids pulled a shithead move like that (I have girls, but the sentiment still stands) I would want to know.

      But on the other hand, it seems to me that the sending to the mom is ONLY to shame him, not in any hopes that the mom will actually do something about it. It feels like the mom is more just an object of shame here. I don’t know how to word this to get across my meaning… It feels vaguely like objectification of the mom.. We don’t know what her feelings would be about receiving these pictures. Just because LolaGirl and I and a few other mothers would want to know, doesn’t mean Trevor’s mother automatically would, or that she did that she would even give a shit.

      What bothers me is that It doesn’t feel like “I’m going to send this to your mom and maybe she will do something about it” but more like “I’m going to send this to your MOM and then she’ll KNOW and omg isn’t that horrible because YOUR MOM.”

      It doesn’t feel like the mom is to be an active participant, but more of an abstract concept and that makes me uncomfortable with sending her the pictures.

  7. Ms Misantropia
    Ms Misantropia June 14, 2013 at 4:10 pm |

    Harassment, consequences, respect – things men apparently have yet to learn about.

    1. yes
      yes June 15, 2013 at 6:27 am |

      You misspelled your name.

  8. Aaliyah
    Aaliyah June 14, 2013 at 4:41 pm |

    Harassment, consequences, respect – things some men apparently have yet to learn about.

    Fixed that for you.

    1. Fat Steve
      Fat Steve June 14, 2013 at 5:04 pm |

      Fixed that for you.

      Actually she’s right…I consider myself better than average in all those things, but I learn things every day…

      1. Aaliyah
        Aaliyah June 14, 2013 at 6:12 pm |

        I learn things every day…

        So do I, and I’m not a man.

  9. Megan
    Megan June 14, 2013 at 6:03 pm |

    My only concern is that, why does one woman get to decide she doesn’t want to see that pic and that’s ok, and another woman doesn’t get to decide that at all (i.e. his mom). I’m all for publicly shaming people who are harassers. However, I think that treating his mom like a) she’s responsible for all her son’s behaviors and thus broader rape culture, and b) sending her pics of her son’s junk without her consent, is not necessary or appropriate. As someone who has lived in the same rape culture we all live in, I don’t think it’s right to turn around and be revictimizing/blaming her for it to, regardless of intent.

    1. Sly civilian
      Sly civilian June 14, 2013 at 8:12 pm |

      Why didn’t it get sent to this dudes father? Oh, that’s right, it’s a woman’s work to make her men behave towards other women.

      Count me in the “one non-consent cockshot does not justify more” team.

      1. Lolagirl
        Lolagirl June 15, 2013 at 9:10 am |

        I might be going out on a limb here, but I can see where sending the selfie to dad would only result in high fives to the wayward naked selfie son, not castigation and recrimination. Or that the victim feared that this would be the outcome, at the very least.

        Sure, there is some gender politicking going on here. But we live in the world in which we live here in the U.S. We can go around and around about how we would prefer our world to deal with stuff like sexual harassment, but I’ll hazard a guess that if we lived in a world where this victim felt safe forwarding the naked selfie to the dad, the naked selfie as form of sexual harassment likely would not be occurring in the first place.

        1. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 11:59 am |

          I can see where sending the selfie to dad would only result in high fives to the wayward naked selfie son

          Yep. Call me a traditionalist and a parent-shamer, but I do maintain that misogyny doesn’t often arise in a familial void.

        2. Lolagirl
          Lolagirl June 15, 2013 at 4:57 pm |

          Well, I am willing to allow that it never even occurred to this guy’s parents to cover ground like this. I can also see where mom and dad may very well be on very different pages about all of it (assuming he is the product of a hetero coupling.). Thus mom being all horrified and how could you do such a thing and dad being all high fives all around

        3. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
          The Kittehs' Unpaid Help June 15, 2013 at 9:24 pm |

          Yeah, I didn’t think sending the pic to his father would work, either.

    2. lilith danne
      lilith danne June 15, 2013 at 6:19 pm |

      I agree with you 500%

  10. amblingalong
    amblingalong June 14, 2013 at 7:46 pm |

    Yeah, I think the woman here is almost as bad as Trevor; he sexually harassed her, and then she turned around and harassed his mother, who was a totally innocent party. Not cool.

    1. macavitykitsune
      macavitykitsune June 14, 2013 at 7:59 pm |

      Well, as Kierra pointed out upthread, we don’t know if the woman blurred out the genitalia before she sent it or not. The picture was blurred everywhere I’ve seen it on the internet, so…

    2. Lolagirl
      Lolagirl June 14, 2013 at 8:08 pm |

      It all depends on how you look at it.

      I would want to know, and I wouldn’t hate on the person forwarding the naked selfie, but I sure would give my kid hell if I were that guy’s mother. Really, I’m not engaging in hyperbole here, I would not be pissed or offended by the woman in this story’s picture forwarding and public pillorying, because the only anger I would have would be directed at the my kid/the guy in question. The no-tattling rule does not extend to sexual harassment or bullying, ever.

      1. LotusBecca
        LotusBecca June 16, 2013 at 6:04 am |

        It’s not about no tattling. It’s about the fact that a woman who did nothing wrong (Trevor’s mom) was subjected to a bunch of detailed, disturbing information and possibly a disturbing picture that she may have never wanted to see. Trevor’s mom is not responsible for her son’s behavior. Maybe she was happy to hear about his horrid actions; maybe not. For all we know. . .Trevor has also been abusive to his mom, and perhaps she tries to keep him at arm’s length. In such a scenario, graphically (and nonconsensually) being reminded of his abuse by a stranger could be very triggering to her. The responsible thing to do would be to contact the mom and politely ask her whether she wanted to hear about an incident of her son acting inappropriately. Only if the mom consented to hearing about this incident should it be described to her in graphic detail. She is not responsible for her son’s behavior and it’s not her job to “give her kid hell.” Mothers are not to blame for the reprehensible actions of their children; to imply otherwise is misogynistic in my opinion.

    3. shfree
      shfree June 14, 2013 at 8:20 pm |

      Well, I look at her sending the pictures along with the texts he sent her like this–if my kid, no matter how old she is, treated another person like this asshat treated this woman, I would want to know so I can firmly remind her that that is NOT how she was raised to speak to and treat other people. I wouldn’t care if she was fifty and I was in my seventies. And yes, I would be appalled to get such pictures and texts, but that was because my kid was behaving extremely poorly, in a way that I found intolerable. I mean, for some things I would have to shrug my shoulders and say “Well, she’s an adult, she makes her own decisions,” but if she’s a deliberate abuser of another person, that shit isn’t going to fly with me, ever.

      I guess what I’m saying is that for this parent receiving the pic of her son along with his texts to the woman he harassed might be harassment as well, but for me, I would see it as an insight into my child’s behavior that needs correcting immediately.

    4. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
      The Kittehs' Unpaid Help June 14, 2013 at 9:51 pm |

      I doubt I’d read a pic of my (hypothetical) son as harassment. It’s reporting what the little shit did, with evidence – the text and picture. Is Trevor’s mother likely to see a photo of him in the same way the total stranger he was harassing did? I don’t think so. He’s not harassing her and neither is the woman who sent her the info, I think.

    5. chava
      chava June 15, 2013 at 3:52 am |

      So. not. harassment.

      1. amblingalong
        amblingalong June 15, 2013 at 4:25 pm |

        Sending someone you don’t know a nude photo is always wrong. The fact the subject of the photo did something bad doesn’t give you license to harass a third party, even if they’re related.

        1. chava
          chava June 16, 2013 at 3:18 am |

          That…is a sweeping moral generalization, and entirely incorrect.

          If she hadn’t kept the picture, and if she hadn’t sent it/posted it online, no one would *believe* her. Because women have TRIED the “classy” approach to this shit, and no one believes us. And now apparently when we say “Oh HAI, there is photographic evidence,” we are harassing the people to whom we show that evidence. Righto.

        2. LotusBecca
          LotusBecca June 16, 2013 at 6:13 am |

          Chava. . .there’s plenty of ways to publicly shame this guy without involving his mother without her consent. Posting a record of his harrassment on tumblr was a good start. . .I think many other things would also have been appropriate. . .contacting his job to inform them about the incident. . .contacting his church (if he goes to church) to inform them about the incident. . .and so on. But it was wrong to send the entire transcript (and possibly a picture) to his mom without her consent. She could have been contacted and asked if she wanted to hear about what happened before being exposed to an excruciatingly detailed record of it.

        3. chava
          chava June 16, 2013 at 6:20 am |

          So, I’m not unsympathetic to the argument that sending it to his mother is a reflection of our own misogynistic bias re: a mother is always responsible for her children’s action, etc.

          On the other hand, I’m not entirely sure that the level of anonymity modern society gives us from our families is always good or appropriate when it comes to social mores/ethics. And I still maintain that this isn’t something the woman needed to obtain “consent” from his mother to send, nor was it in any way sexual harassment.

          (Aside from which, do we know that she actually sent this to his mother? I haven’t seen any sort of confirmation)

        4. LotusBecca
          LotusBecca June 16, 2013 at 6:43 am |

          In my opinion, one should obtain consent whenever possible–if ever consent is in question. This doesn’t just mean in sexual interactions. This means in all human interaction. You don’t have a right to any particular individual’s time or attention. Given the fact that Trevor’s mother may have not wanted to know all this information about her son, given the fact that learning this about her son might have been painful or triggering for her, and given the fact that she is in no way responsible for her son’s abusive actions, I believe her consent should have been obtained in this case. When in doubt, one should always obtain consent. . .in sexual situations and in all situations. It is wrong to risk (even if the risk is relatively small) victimizing a completely innocent person.

    6. yes
      yes June 15, 2013 at 6:30 am |

      An unsolicited, sexualized picture of your child is a more repellant form of harassment than an unsolicited picture of a stranger. Threaten, sure. He’s an idiot, why not? Actually harassing someone else to humiliate him? Piece of shit behavior in the extreme.

      1. chava
        chava June 15, 2013 at 7:46 am |

        If my child did this, I would want to know, and I would want proof.

        I’ve noticed that with the proliferation of easy ways to prove assault and harassment beyond the shadow of a doubt (videos, screen caps, etc) comes these kind of back-bending justifications for why it is not! ever! ok! to out your abuser.

        1. Fat Steve
          Fat Steve June 15, 2013 at 2:33 pm |

          If my child did this, I would want to know, and I would want proof.

          Would you be willing to entertain the possibility that Trevor’s mother feels differently than you? Maybe she washes her hands of her adult son, and this is just one of many ways in which he has let her down and she just doesn’t feel like hearing it anymore. Does that make her a bad person?

        2. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 2:44 pm |

          Steve, the fact that Trevor seems concerned about his mother finding out would put the lie to that assumption.

        3. Alyson
          Alyson June 15, 2013 at 3:48 pm |

          If he and his mother are Facebook friends, the chance of them being estranged is quite slim.

        4. Fat Steve
          Fat Steve June 15, 2013 at 4:03 pm |

          Steve, the fact that Trevor seems concerned about his mother finding out would put the lie to that assumption.

          OK, but surely if you’re going to tell her about it, it should be up to her whether or not she needs ‘proof.’

        5. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 4:10 pm |

          …yes, because a total stranger telling you “your son sent me a dick pic and then harassed me about it”, without any further evidence, would totally warrant a reply, as opposed to being disregarded as some sort of harasser herself.

        6. yes
          yes June 15, 2013 at 5:54 pm |

          As other people have pointed out, you’re not his mother, and women the world over aren’t required to feel the way you do about being sent dick pics of their sons.

          I’m not talking about outing someone (though I find the use of “abuser” in this case insulting), by the way. Outing shitty behavior is fine. Her response is disproportionate, but I don’t really care. I’m talking about sending unsolicited dick picks to a woman who you have no reason to believe wants them. That’s inappropriate behavior, period. Getting sent an unwanted pic isn’t justification to repeat the offense yourself.

      2. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
        The Kittehs' Unpaid Help June 15, 2013 at 9:23 pm |

        An unsolicited, sexualized picture of your child is a more repellant form of harassment than an unsolicited picture of a stranger.

        Oh for fuck’s sake.

        This isn’t a picture taken of him and sent without his permission. It’s not a picture of a CHILD at all (yes I know it is in the sense of “offspring” but your phrasing makes it sound like some pedophile shot). It’s a photo taken by an adult man to harass a woman, and used by her as evidence in outing him. You make it sound as if he’s the victim.

        1. LotusBecca
          LotusBecca June 16, 2013 at 6:18 am |

          No. His mother is the victim that yes is referring to. This guy is a misogynistic asshole; his mother just has the misfortune of being related to him. There is no reason to drag her into all this.

        2. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
          The Kittehs' Unpaid Help June 16, 2013 at 7:43 pm |

          I realise that’s what Yes said – it was quite clear zie meant his mother was being harassed. I disagree with that and with the “your child” phrasing, like it’s a woman being sent a pic of her six-year-old by some creep.

      3. chava
        chava June 16, 2013 at 3:26 am |

        Of course I’m not his mother. But I’ve noticed no one who IS a mother chiming in to say how horrified they would have been by the nekkid selfie. It’s coming off as pearl clutching, honestly.

        Sending the photo to another women in this context is not harassment. There is no sexual intent, for one thing. His mother is not victimized by seeing this photograph. (Honestly? He’ll probably lie and say she somehow faked it, and his mother will believe him. Same shit, different technology)

        1. yes
          yes June 16, 2013 at 4:49 am |

          So intent actually is magic, now? Neat.

        2. chava
          chava June 16, 2013 at 5:02 am |

          “yes”, if I send you a naked photo for medical or legal reasons, I am hoping we can agree that it is not harassment. If I send it to you by accident at work, and sincerely apologize, that is different from sending it to you on purpose. If you see me naked because I forgot to draw my blinds, versus consciously leaving them open to harass you, these are two different things. And finally, sending a “dic pic” to a woman you are harassing online is not the same thing as sending a parent a picture of their adult child misbehaving. Intent and context, it matters.

          Aside from which, she isn’t sexually harassing this woman! I do not understand the feats of logic-bending people are taking to make this appear to be the case.

        3. LotusBecca
          LotusBecca June 16, 2013 at 6:22 am |

          She may not be sexually harassing the mother, but she is just plain harassing the mother. It’s misogynistic to think that mothers are somehow responsible for the abusive actions of their children and automatically want to know about those actions in excruciating detail. There is absolutely no reason to drag the mom into this without her consent.

        4. Anna in PDX
          Anna in PDX June 17, 2013 at 6:34 pm |

          I have. I think it’s inappropriate and it has a clear connotation of “your child is a jerk and this is your problem/fault. do something about it.” This would be appropriate if the kid were still under her supervision, not if he’s an adult.

  11. Georgia Platts
    Georgia Platts June 14, 2013 at 8:59 pm |

    “You wouldn’t feel that way if it were a woman and not a man.”

    If “she” were harassing “him” I would.

    1. Tyris
      Tyris June 15, 2013 at 4:01 am |

      …why are “she” and “him” in quotation marks here?

      Using them makes it look like you’re saying “a woman who harasses is not really a woman, and a man who is harassed is not really a man.”

      Not that we believe that that was your intent, but it is what you have succeeded in accidentally* implying.

      *hopefully

      1. Amelia the Lurker
        Amelia the Lurker June 16, 2013 at 12:40 am |

        I think she was putting it in quotes to show that it’s hypothetical.

  12. AlleyOop
    AlleyOop June 15, 2013 at 3:18 am |

    I’m not a fan of the public shaming approach to this sort of thing. One of the core tenets of just punishment theory is that the punishment must be proportional to the severity of the transgression. However, in cases of public shaming (particularly in the internet age) the consequences to the person being shamed are unpredictable and can often be severe and long-lasting. In this particular case, for example, this Trevor guy is probably going to experience years of personal and professional consequences for his actions (basically for however long this incident continues to pop up when you google his name), and that strikes me as disproportionate to the harm he caused.

    Also, I should note that the deterrence argument doesn’t really help, in my opinion. Disproportionately punishing someone to “make an example out of them” and thus deter others from committing the same transgression is using that person as a means to an end, which I think is itself unjust and immoral. (h/t to Kant on that one!)

    1. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
      The Kittehs' Unpaid Help June 15, 2013 at 4:17 am |

      What makes you think he hasn’t done this to other women?

      As to him experiencing years of trouble from it – I bloody doubt it. Men basically get away with this sort of shit – hell, they get away with murder when the victim is a woman – all the time. There’ll be all the “oh, how cruel, how nasty, what a bitch” crap calling for sympathy for this dude who was only harassing her, only trying to cause her distress, to make her feel unsafe, to stalk her … no, I don’t think it’s in the least disproportionate. It fuckingwell serves him right. Sexual predator has his life made difficult? Cry me a river.

    2. Barnacle Strumpet
      Barnacle Strumpet June 15, 2013 at 6:25 am |

      I’m not really fond of the public shaming tactic used for anything, really. Growing up in a small town I’ve seen how that plays out.

      Unfortunately, it seems to be the move popular move in the SJ playbook these days.

    3. PrettyAmiable
      PrettyAmiable June 15, 2013 at 11:09 am |

      You’re absolutely right. What if his employer’s find out?? What if they can recognize Trevor by virtue of his super common first name and the fact that his face is a pixelated mess?

      FFS, I’m so sick of the whining around this. I’m not even certain this shit is real, but as far as I can tell, the only people who know his last name, what his face AND dick look like, are Trevor, the woman he harassed, and maybe his mom. He got off ridiculously easy, if he’s real.

      1. macavitykitsune
        macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 6:42 pm |

        What if they can recognize Trevor by virtue of his super common first name and the fact that his face is a pixelated mess?

        PA, since I’ve seen a dozen Trevors and none of them had a pixelated face, I think he’s pretty unique. And his life! Is! Ruinnnnnnnneddddddd!

        1. PrettyAmiable
          PrettyAmiable June 15, 2013 at 7:12 pm |

          There was this one pixelated guy on the subway the other day…

        2. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
          The Kittehs' Unpaid Help June 15, 2013 at 9:15 pm |

          Yes but did he have a pixelated dick as well? It might be someone else!!!

    4. PrettyAmiable
      PrettyAmiable June 15, 2013 at 11:11 am |

      Disproportionately punishing someone to “make an example out of them” and thus deter others from committing the same transgression is using that person as a means to an end, which I think is itself unjust and immoral. (h/t to Kant on that one!)

      Another comment in moderation, but why exactly are you so worried about the perpetrator being used as a means to an end, when that’s EXACTLY what the disgusting shitbag did to the victim?

    5. GallingGalla
      GallingGalla June 15, 2013 at 5:57 pm |

      As if the woman he harassed won’t experience long-term harm from his harassment. PTSD, anyone?

  13. macavitykitsune
    macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 12:05 pm |

    The poor abusers, won’t someone think of the poor abusers? They’re so sad and fuzzy, y’all. Also we horrible survivor-people must never ever out our abusers, except in a socially appropriate fashion. By which, of course, I mean a closed court procedure, ideally only involving the “victim”, the poor sad tragic accused man whose life is going to be ruined, ruined!, and a judge. (Male, of course. You wouldn’t want nasty wimminz collaborating to make a nice boy miserable.)

    Also anyone who calls someone out on their sexual predation, and does so in a manner that Menz Cannot Approve is almost as bad as the predator. Almost as bad, you hear me?

    1. Aaliyah
      Aaliyah June 15, 2013 at 12:12 pm |

      That reminds me of Erin Prizzey on r/AMA saying that the BEST ADVICE for abuse victims is for them to forgive their abusers and “move on.” I can’t make this shit up.

      People like her are just evil.

      1. macavitykitsune
        macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 12:22 pm |

        I think the phrase “move on” has itself become triggering for a lot of people at this point. I know I’m one of them.

        1. Aaliyah
          Aaliyah June 15, 2013 at 12:31 pm |

          I’m very sorry. It didn’t occur to me that that phrase could trigger someone.

        2. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 1:00 pm |

          Hey, don’t worry about it, it doesn’t bother me in the context of being spoken to be dismissed; I didn’t think you were endorsing it. (Also, insanely luckily for me, I mostly don’t get triggered by reading things, only hearing them. Sounds seem to fuck me over harder than any other sense except smell.)

    2. PrettyAmiable
      PrettyAmiable June 15, 2013 at 1:58 pm |

      This. FFS, this. I have a comment in moderation above, but I tend to concur, especially because as far as I can tell, no one knows his last name or what his effing face (or penis) looks like.

    3. Alyson
      Alyson June 15, 2013 at 3:57 pm |

      Yeah, I got this from my ex-best friend/rapist’s new girlfriend for a while: “how DARE you say that you were raped on your anonymous blog using pseudonyms! That is SO HURTFUL to us!”

      …Then don’t rape? Don’t harrass people? Consider the consequences of your actions, the way other people tell women to do all the time? (Seriously, if we have sloppy drunk sex once we’re supposed to support a kid for 18 years, but guys can seriously hurt people all over the place and expect second chances and societal protection?)

      1. macavitykitsune
        macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 4:55 pm |

        No shit. I’m sorry you dealt with that. D:

        It’s like PA pointed out…face blurred, dick blurred, no last name, so why is everyone so ANGRY and determined to paint this woman as some sort of abuser herself? Could it be that we’re not even allowed to mention our abusers’ first names on the internet anymore? What are we allowed to talk about, then?

        Oh. Nothing? Hmm.

      2. PrettyAmiable
        PrettyAmiable June 15, 2013 at 7:45 pm |

        Some dickheads who knew the guy who assaulted me had a pretty similar reaction when I outed him to our group of friends. It’s been years and I’m MUCH better, but I remember that being one of the more traumatic aspects of the experience.

        As a note, your comment made me go back and find an email chain where I did just that, and holy shit was I an awesome badass who stood up for herself. It’s funny (“funny”), because I only remember being a broken mess, but it looks like I was fairly awesome.

        I admire the courage to name your rapist, and I’m glad you didn’t back down (it’s hard not to). Mine was primarily known by a nickname derived from his last name, which he changed when he got married. What a fuckhead.

    4. amblingalong
      amblingalong June 15, 2013 at 4:27 pm |

      Also anyone who calls someone out on their sexual predation, and does so in a manner that Menz Cannot Approve is almost as bad as the predator. Almost as bad, you hear me?

      What makes her almost as bad isn’t that she called someone out, but that she became a sexual harasser herself when she sent nude photos to a third, uninvolved, party.

      1. amblingalong
        amblingalong June 15, 2013 at 4:28 pm |

        I mean, the hypocrisy is staggering. She reacted to being sent unsolicited nude photos by sending unsolicited nude photos to another woman. How the fuck are we defending this.

        1. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 4:36 pm |

          she sent nude photos to a third, uninvolved, party

          And for the third time, I’d like proof of that. Do we know the photos weren’t blurred? Do we even know if she actually sent the images to his mother? Has the mother weighed in on this in any way?

          Mm…nope, right?

          Right.

        2. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 4:43 pm |

          Also, I find all this “oh noez harassment of a poor innocent woman” shit to be incredibly disingenuous. The woman in question wasn’t remotely intending to sexually harass Trevor’s mother, and presumably she sent the image along as proof rather than just randomly texting Trevor’s mother with the image (which would serve none of the “outing” purpose).

          Also, idk how she contacted Trevor’s mother, but on most email platforms or whatever, attachments don’t usually auto-open above the message (thus allowing Mom to look if she wants and avoid if she doesn’t). Just saying.

        3. Fat Steve
          Fat Steve June 15, 2013 at 4:58 pm |

          Do we know the photos weren’t blurred? Do we even know if she actually sent the images to his mother? Has the mother weighed in on this in any way?

          We don’t and all those things put a different spin it. Right now we can’t say one way or the other in terms of those things, so it’s not 100% cut and dried.

        4. yes
          yes June 15, 2013 at 5:57 pm |

          @mac

          “Intent isn’t magic.”

        5. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 6:05 pm |

          “Intent isn’t magic.”

          And telepathic knowledge of several facts no one knows isn’t pure rational penis-science.

        6. PrettyAmiable
          PrettyAmiable June 15, 2013 at 7:54 pm |

          Hahahahahaha “pure rational penis-science” is a phrase I intend to employ liberally going forward. Thanks.

        7. amblingalong
          amblingalong June 15, 2013 at 11:27 pm |

          The woman in question wasn’t remotely intending to sexually harass Trevor’s mother

          Because if you don’t mean it to be, it’s not harassment!

        8. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 11:30 pm |

          Because if you don’t mean it to be, it’s not harassment!

          *SIGH* Fuck’s sake. The point of that post, if you’d deign to read more than a sentence, o champion of harassed moms, was that it was likely sent (if it was even sent, since this is all hypothetical) in a way that allowed Trevor’s Mom to choose to see it or not (unless TM has her mobile number on Facebook or wev). Which is substantially different from a text message.

      2. macavitykitsune
        macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 4:52 pm |

        What makes her almost as bad isn’t that she called someone out

        Since my point was about “method The Menz don’t approve of”, that’s moot.

        but that she became a sexual harasser herself when she sent nude photos to a third, uninvolved, party

        Well, here’s the thing. If you think she’s a sexual harasser, and that’s the only reason she’s almost as bad, then she’s no more or less an offender than he is (sending dick pic=sending dick pic), so why the “almost”? What’s the qualifier there? I have to wonder, because there’s so many toxic narratives in society about how women Should Be, and what mothers Should Police, and how forgiveness Must Happen, that I can’t really tell what’s prompting your assessment.

        1. amblingalong
          amblingalong June 15, 2013 at 11:25 pm |

          Well, here’s the thing. If you think she’s a sexual harasser, and that’s the only reason she’s almost as bad, then she’s no more or less an offender than he is (sending dick pic=sending dick pic), so why the “almost”? What’s the qualifier there?

          The almost is because she only sent one harassing e-mail, whereas he continued to harass through multiple forms of communication over a long period of time.

          I have to wonder, because there’s so many toxic narratives in society about how women Should Be, and what mothers Should Police, and how forgiveness Must Happen, that I can’t really tell what’s prompting your assessment.

          Really not sure how any of that is related to my assertion that sending strangers unsolicited naked photos is a bad thing to do.

        2. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 11:31 pm |

          The almost is because she only sent one harassing e-mail, whereas he continued to harass through multiple forms of communication over a long period of time.

          Bullshit. That’s not how harassment works. One dick pic is enough harassment to qualify as harassment. Or do you only go after flashers if they show their penis for a sufficiently extended period of time?

        3. amblingalong
          amblingalong June 16, 2013 at 2:16 am |

          Bullshit. That’s not how harassment works. One dick pic is enough harassment to qualify as harassment. Or do you only go after flashers if they show their penis for a sufficiently extended period of time?

          …I agree? You asked why I thought the woman’s behavior was almost, but not quite, as bad as Trevor’s. I responded that she did something wrong once, and he did something wrong several times. A serial killer is worse than a murderer, right? Someone who harasses multiple times is worse than someone who only does it once? I mean, if all we’re disagree about is that you think she’s just as bad as Trevor and I think she’s only almost as bad, I’m happy to concede.

          Anyways, you’re arguing against yourself; first you say it’s totally fine to send people nude pictures without their consent if it’s to get your Totally Feminist Revenge, and now “one dick pic is enough harassment to qualify as harassment?” Which is it?

        4. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 16, 2013 at 2:39 am |

          Ah, I see, ambling. Sorry, I misread that statement.

          first you say it’s totally fine to send people nude pictures without their consent if it’s to get your Totally Feminist Revenge, and now “one dick pic is enough harassment to qualify as harassment?

          I don’t endorse that, I was trying to figure out your position (if the sending of a dick pic is harassment, then the sending of any dick pic is harassment, yes? Whether by her or by the guy). Sorry I didn’t make that clear. D: I thought it was, but looking back, it really isn’t.

        5. Fat Steve
          Fat Steve June 16, 2013 at 4:24 pm |

          You asked why I thought the woman’s behavior was almost, but not quite, as bad as Trevor’s. I responded that she did something wrong once, and he did something wrong several times. A serial killer is worse than a murderer, right?

          Poor analogy…if you want to use the killing analogy, then her mistake is more comparable to accidental manslaughter as it was not her intention to harass the mother. I don’t happen to think that accidental manslaughter is ‘almost’ as bad as serial killing.

    5. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
      The Kittehs' Unpaid Help June 15, 2013 at 9:19 pm |

      They’re so sad and fuzzy, y’all.

      That’s what being pixelated does to ya.

  14. shfree
    shfree June 15, 2013 at 4:10 pm |

    You know maybe, just MAYBE, she wouldn’t have sent those pictures to his mom if he would have done the decent, “crap, I really messed up here” thing and actually apologized. Even half-heartedly. But no.

    So, for all those who think she is overreacting, and he didn’t do anything to deserve her treatment of him, she gave him time to take it back and say he behaved badly. He did not. “I thought you would like it” doesn’t count as an “I’m sorry” if it doesn’t even include those two damn words.

  15. macavitykitsune
    macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 6:45 pm |

    Does anyone know if there’s any email/social media portal that auto-opens an attached file before the person can read the message the attachment’s tied to?

    Because, you know, if there isn’t one, then all the people shedding tears for the poor, poor harassed abused mother who’s been positively forced to see her dickbag son’s junk are being about as massively disingenuous as I currently believe they are.

    1. Tyris
      Tyris June 15, 2013 at 8:37 pm |

      Attachments: not that we know of.

      Embedded images: pretty much all of them.

    2. A4
      A4 June 15, 2013 at 10:09 pm |

      Gmail automatically displays image attachments

      1. tigtog
        tigtog June 15, 2013 at 10:22 pm | *

        I have yet to see a version of screen-capped Trevor where he isn’t strategically pixellated, yet many people appear to assume that the version sent to his mother wasn’t. Why?

        1. A4
          A4 June 15, 2013 at 11:00 pm |

          I don’t know. You should ask the people who assumed that.

      2. macavitykitsune
        macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 10:37 pm |

        Yeah, but I have a gmail, and I have to scroll down to image attachments, so unless the woman sent literally nothing but the screencap (or wev), Mom would have to scroll to it…

        1. A4
          A4 June 15, 2013 at 11:05 pm |

          Does that knowledge comfort you somehow?

        2. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 11:08 pm |

          Huh? The whole point was “mom nonconsensually saw X”, so if mom had to deliberately scroll down to X, then…

          Not so very nonconsensual, yes?

        3. A4
          A4 June 15, 2013 at 11:16 pm |

          You know nothing about the mother’s user interface for accessing her email.

          You are inventing a fantasy that makes assumptions about the mother’s computer configuration, her email configuration, her browser configuration, her email reading habits, her computer ability, and her state of mind upon reading the email.

          You can make claims about what is likely, but the fact is that you don’t know. And she did not know. And there is no evidence that she cared. There is evidence, however, that she felt the mother should see these images regardless of if the mother would want to.

        4. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 11:24 pm |

          You are inventing a fantasy that makes assumptions about the mother’s computer configuration, her email configuration, her browser configuration, her email reading habits, her computer ability, and her state of mind upon reading the email.

          Whereas everyone else here is inventing a fantasy in which this pic was actually sent, and that it was unblurred, as well as her computer ability, and her state of mind upon reading the email. At this point, we’re all doing round-robins of Trevor Mom Fanfiction, so I support my view. It’s funner! :P

        5. A4
          A4 June 15, 2013 at 11:35 pm |

          I’m not responsible for other people’s assumptions. Particularly yours.

          My comments below are dealing only with the themes I see being perpetuated in the screenshots and Caperton’s article.

        6. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 11:44 pm |

          Far be it from me to imply you’re responsible, A4.

        7. amblingalong
          amblingalong June 16, 2013 at 2:20 am |

          Far be it from me to imply you’re responsible, A4.

          The problem is even when I’m spatting with macavity she still makes me crack up. Sigh.

        8. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 16, 2013 at 2:45 am |

          The problem is even when I’m spatting with macavity she still makes me crack up. Sigh.

          This gave me the warm and fuzzies ^_^

      3. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
        The Kittehs' Unpaid Help June 15, 2013 at 11:13 pm |

        I use gmail and the attachments I get are thumbnails.

        1. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 15, 2013 at 11:25 pm |

          Well, you know. If we speak about gmail we’re living in a fantasy, but A4 and amblingalong know the Great Truths of this Horrible Event that nobody here can even prove happened to any extent whatsoever. So we should all sit down and shush. Probably with ankles crossed in a suitably demure fashion.

        2. amblingalong
          amblingalong June 16, 2013 at 2:19 am |

          Right. I’m totally being a misogynist who thinks women should be demur and cross their ankles because I oppose sending dick pics to unsuspecting people even if it’s to get your TFR (Totally Feminist Revenge).

          That is a completely logical and reasonable inference to draw.

        3. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 16, 2013 at 2:45 am |

          Ambling, I’m not calling you a misogynist, I was being sarcastic.

          Also, see the argument I’ve made about five times now that we don’t know whether the mother received a monster cock shot in all its mushroomy glory or not.

        4. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
          The Kittehs' Unpaid Help June 16, 2013 at 3:44 am |

          monster cock shot in all its mushroomy glory

          You do realise you’ve RUINED my dinner of steak and mushrooms now …

  16. trees
    trees June 15, 2013 at 7:08 pm |

    Some of the responses to this incident are perplexing.

    Are there a lot of mothers who would experience a full frontal shot of their son (pixelated or not) as sexual harassment? Also, without the photo, the mother could easily assume that this stranger is lying.

    Outside of his family maybe, will any of this really have an impact on life? Anthony Wiener’s unsolicited penis-pics went public and he’s a front runner in the NYC mayoral race.

    It would have been great if his mother didn’t have to be dragged into this, and I’m wondering if the father’s email address was also available, but why are some folks so super concerned about this asshole internet flasher? What other options were available to her, in what other ways may she have handled this situation?

    1. Fat Steve
      Fat Steve June 15, 2013 at 9:11 pm |

      It would have been great if his mother didn’t have to be dragged into this

      That is all I am saying, I don’t agree with the idea that sending the pics is harassment. I just think there are a number of women out there who wouldn’t be able to talk to/confront their sons about this and would merely feel bad.

      Personally, if it was ME who sent the pics and not Trevor, informing my mom would be a great idea, because my mother was a psychologist and her and I have always been able to talk about almost anything and she is used to speaking with all sorts of people on difficult issues. However, the excellent dialogue I have with my mom is not something I necessarily see amongst my male peers.

      1. Fat Steve
        Fat Steve June 15, 2013 at 9:12 pm |

        CLARIFICATION: When I said above I don’t agree sending the pics was harrassment, I mean I don’t agree that sending the pics TO HIS MOTHER was harrassment to HER,

    2. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
      The Kittehs' Unpaid Help June 15, 2013 at 9:13 pm |

      Seconding all of that, Trees!

  17. A4
    A4 June 15, 2013 at 10:52 pm |

    She tells him:
    “I honestly think you deserve to have that uncomfortable conversation with your mother”

    “it is right. She should know how you perpetuate rape culture. I am sick of being treated like this.”

    She does not show consideration for the feelings of his mother, a woman she doesn’t know and has never met. She says this is right because he did not show consideration for her feelings, also of a woman he doesn’t know and never met.

    Caperton wrote:
    “Sending the screencaps to Trevor’s mother was a good move because it’s apparent from his response that that’s basically the only potential penalty that frightens him”

    Caperton also does not consider the mother’s feelings at all.

    The mother is just seen in relation to her son, not a separate person. She is a tool for affecting him.

    I believe there is a long sexist history of viewing women only through their relation to the men in their lives.

    1. XtinaS
      XtinaS June 15, 2013 at 11:19 pm |

      Then what should she have done?

      1. A4
        A4 June 15, 2013 at 11:31 pm |

        I don’t know what the woman actually did at all, so I cannot say what she should have done.

        However, both the rhetoric of these screenshots and the rhetoric of this article claim that involving the mother was just because it hurts the son.

        I do not think it is just to punish a woman for the sins of the men in her life. For many many reasons, particularly that you do not know how she is treated already by the man you are punishing.

    2. Andie
      Andie June 16, 2013 at 10:41 am |

      she is a tool for affecting him

      Yeah, this is what I was kind of getting at.

      1. Fat Steve
        Fat Steve June 16, 2013 at 11:04 am |

        Yeah, this is what I was kind of getting at.

        @Andie

        I definitely get that from your comments. I also see, like me, you are trying to balance not blaming the victim, not excusing the harasser and the overwhelming thought ‘hmmmm, bad as the behavior was, not sure if involving the Mom was the best idea.’

    3. Karak
      Karak June 17, 2013 at 2:43 pm |

      So? This was a tool of public shaming. What you do is find people emotional close to the target who are likely to be able to inflict shame, and give them the information. I have no problem with any of this at all, except I wish she’d left some of the face and personal info unblocked so we could all know who this guy is.

      I think your mom being forwarded pictures of you us materially different from you sending harassing photos of yourself–in no small amount because the target of the act isn’t the mom.

  18. Fat Steve
    Fat Steve June 15, 2013 at 11:51 pm |

    While I myself would draw the line at actually involving the mother, I’m a bit frustrated with the ‘sending email to the sainted mother of an innocent pervert is the worst sort of harassment ever’ spiel.

  19. Aaliyah
    Aaliyah June 16, 2013 at 2:37 am |

    I can’t say much about the woman who was harassed in that I’m not sure if she harassed the mother. I don’t think there’s enough evidence to determine that yet.

    However, I do believe that the woman should have at least asked the mother first if she wanted to see the photo. Like, she should have said something like “Recently your son harassed me with a photo of his genitalia. I have photo evidence, too. Do you want me to share the evidence with you?”

    1. Aaliyah
      Aaliyah June 16, 2013 at 2:44 am |

      To clarify, I’m just making this point because, in general, it’s better to ask about these things first.

      Then again, I don’t know if she asked the mother. Maybe she did, maybe she did it. So I suppose I’m speculating as well.

    2. moviemaedchen
      moviemaedchen June 16, 2013 at 10:43 am |

      Yes, I agree. It’s not that sending the pic unasked-for to the mother would be The Worst Ever, but it’s still ignoring *her* feelings. Whereas sending the text of the conversation and noting that photographic evidence can be provided if the mother wants it allows her freedom of choice in seeing the photo without making it about protecting the son. That would be the appropriate way to handle it, IMHO.

      Of course we don’t know for certain what she did, so yes it’s speculation. But I don’t really like the undercurrent of ‘the mother’s feelings don’t matter’ or ‘I’D feel XYZ so of course it’s ok’ that is in this thread.

  20. pheenobarbidoll
    pheenobarbidoll June 16, 2013 at 3:42 pm |

    Most mothers don’t view their childrens junk in a sexual manner, even when it is adult junk in an aroused state. So…if it isn’t sent sexually AND is not received/perceived sexually, is it sexual harassment? If a mother does not view her childs junk in a sexual manner, anymore than she would his butt or an elbow, then I have a hard time saying she would experience it as sexual harassment.

    The entire conversation feels like yet another version of ” let’s stop talking about the perpetrator and instead focus on how his victim didn’t react perfectly, while any attempt to put the focus back on the perp is met with yes yes of course that was bad, but the victim didn’t react properly so let’s focus back on her”

    1. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
      The Kittehs' Unpaid Help June 16, 2013 at 3:58 pm |

      Seconding all that.

    2. LotusBecca
      LotusBecca June 16, 2013 at 4:01 pm |

      I think there a probably a lot of mothers who would feel harassed (if not sexually harassed) by receiving this sort of communication from somebody they didn’t know. Possibly not the majority of mothers. . .but enough that I still think it’s a good idea to ask for consent before involving an innocent non-involved person in a potentially traumatic thing. And I think it’s useful to talk about what tactics of going after perpetrators are likely to actually harm the perpetrator in a targeted manner, and which tactics are likely to be ineffective, have collateral damage, and further perpetuate patriarchy. I think nonconsensually involving Trevor’s mom in this is an ineffective and problematic tactic, personally. This doesn’t mean the woman who Trevor harassed is a terrible person, and I understand why she would be motivated to act in the way she did. And I do think Trevor sounds like a piece of shit, and that probably would be a good thing for us to be talking about more. So I agree with you there, pheeno.

      1. trees
        trees June 16, 2013 at 4:23 pm |

        I think there a probably a lot of mothers who would feel harassed (if not sexually harassed) by receiving this sort of communication from somebody they didn’t know.

        When I see this sentiment expressed here in this discussion it makes me think of some sort of Victorian caricature of mothers with delicate sensibilities. I imagine that many mothers would be more offended by the thought of some strange girl on the internet maligning her precious son, and assume she’s lying (even with photographic evidence) and not take any of this seriously.

        I think maybe some of the difference in reaction is rooted in our divergent life-ways; accountability to family and community shaming can be a powerful force and a sometimes effective deterrent for some.

        1. Fat Steve
          Fat Steve June 16, 2013 at 4:29 pm |

          I imagine that many mothers would be more offended by the thought of some strange girl on the internet maligning her precious son, and assume she’s lying (even with photographic evidence) and not take any of this seriously.

          I guess that’s also a question to raise. Do mothers have the right to bury their heads in the sand, so to speak? And if so, is this a violation of that right.

          I do agree with pheeno that this shouldn’t be the thrust of the argument about the case- it just seems to be the only bit that people here disagree at all about, so it’s getting excess coverage. However, I’m glad that is where the line is drawn around here and that no one’s arguing that Trevor had the right to send an unsolicited selfie.

        2. LotusBecca
          LotusBecca June 16, 2013 at 4:44 pm |

          I think maybe some of the difference in reaction is rooted in our divergent life-ways; accountability to family and community shaming can be a powerful force and a sometimes effective deterrent for some.

          I think you are right about this, trees. I’m not particularly close to my family of origin (of course, I’m not friends with them on Facebook either). My mother also disapproves of a great many things that I do. . .and I couldn’t care less about her disapproval. So trying to shame me by telling my family about some behavior of mine would have zero impact on me. . . in fact, I take pride in the fact that I have transcended many of the values that my parents tried to instil in me.

          On the other hand, I’d like to think that if I was a mother, and I had a misogynistic adult son, I would have a huge problem with his misogyny and probably would not be in very close contact with him. And I could see it being very stressful to have to hear about yet another horrible instance of his sexism. Although you are right, realistically a lot of mothers would probably side with their sexist son and be more disturbed by the fact that he was being bad-mouthed than by anything else.

        3. trees
          trees June 16, 2013 at 4:51 pm |

          I do agree with pheeno that this shouldn’t be the thrust of the argument about the case- it just seems to be the only bit that people here disagree at all about, so it’s getting excess coverage. However, I’m glad that is where the line is drawn around here and that no one’s arguing that Trevor had the right to send an unsolicited selfie.

          Yes, that is a blessing. I also agree with you and pheeno on the “excess coverage” issue, especially since I don’t expect this to have any effect on the asshole’s life. This woman was violated and she took action; good on her.

        4. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
          The Kittehs' Unpaid Help June 16, 2013 at 7:39 pm |

          Yes, it’s not exactly giving mothers credit to assume they’re having the vapours over being shown what douchebags their sons are. I’m betting there’d be a fair bit of the “how dare you malign my precious boy!” too.

          Me, I’d be cutting off contact with him after telling him exactly what I thought of him, if any offspring of mine tried this sort of shit. I have no time for dirtbag relatives.

        5. amblingalong
          amblingalong June 17, 2013 at 12:18 am |

          I guess that’s also a question to raise. Do mothers have the right to bury their heads in the sand, so to speak? And if so, is this a violation of that right.

          Wrong question. The question is “does everyone have a right not to have pictures of genitalia sent to them by strangers?”

          I’m interested in hearing arguments for why they don’t.

        6. Fat Steve
          Fat Steve June 17, 2013 at 1:01 am |

          Wrong question. The question is “does everyone have a right not to have pictures of genitalia sent to them by strangers?”

          I’m interested in hearing arguments for why they don’t.

          The answer is, no, we don’t have a fundamental right not to be sent pictures of genitalia by strangers. Context matters.

      2. Aaliyah
        Aaliyah June 16, 2013 at 4:57 pm |

        Seconded. (Also, I’m glad to see you here again, Becca! ^_^)

    3. macavitykitsune
      macavitykitsune June 16, 2013 at 4:39 pm |

      ”let’s stop talking about the perpetrator and instead focus on how his victim didn’t react perfectly, while any attempt to put the focus back on the perp is met with yes yes of course that was bad, but the victim didn’t react properly so let’s focus back on her”

      Yes. YES. Have I recently mentioned how awesome you are?

      1. pheenobarbidoll
        pheenobarbidoll June 16, 2013 at 11:36 pm |

        And as of right now we know of only 1 victim. Not guess, not imagine,not put ourselves in some shoes and project how we’d feel or how our mother would feel- one we KNOW is a victim. So can we talk about what the perpetrator did, what we KNOW was done over what we think might have been maybe felt by his mother? Is the victim we KNOW about worth less time than the one that may not exist anywhere but our minds?

        1. LotusBecca
          LotusBecca June 17, 2013 at 12:04 am |

          Well, speaking just for myself, I didn’t come to this thread with any pre-set agenda. I read the OP, then I read the comments, then I felt drawn to respond to what I was reading in the comments. If other interesting stuff comes up in the comment thread then I might respond to that, too. I in no way think that the mom’s hypothetical feelings are what is most important here. . .but that’s what most of the discussion has been about so that’s what I weighed in on. Pheeno, if you have an interesting or useful analysis of the perpetrator’s original abusive behavior then I’d like to hear it, and then we can talk about that. Seriously. You seem to strongly believe there are important things that we should be talking about but aren’t. Well, please start talking about them. I, for one, would be interested to hear what you have to say.

        2. pheenobarbidoll
          pheenobarbidoll June 17, 2013 at 1:14 am |

          I don’t think there’s been as much focus on tech harassment as there should be, when society addresses harassment. Online bullying has only recently started being truly addressed, and I think these types of harassing behaviors get lumped under the sexting umbrella. This abuser thinks what he did was no big deal, it’s not like he waved his dick in her face in “real life”, but he also reacts like he knows it was wrong when he faces punishment from his mother being informed. There’s a disconnect, texts and Facebook and ims aren’t really real, so it’s even easier to dehumanize the person on the other end. And when that person starts off as only half human to begin with ( because,woman!)then that slide to dehumanize is a short one. It didn’t get real for him until it held real life consequences. That is why I applaud outing him so thoroughly. It’s real now and real consequences loom.

        3. XtinaS
          XtinaS June 17, 2013 at 7:38 am |

          LotusBecca:

          You, also, could initiate a discussion focusing on the perpetrator. You could be one of the ones generating interesting stuff for folk to focus on, rather than taking this oddly passive role of “I didn’t intend to continue focusing on this ridiculous hypothetical, the conversations were just there already!”.

        4. amblingalong
          amblingalong June 17, 2013 at 9:40 am |

          I’m with Becca- conversations here tend to focus on the stuff people disagree about, because that takes longer to hash out. I personally am glad that this site isn’t, say, Shakesville, where every thread is just an opportunity for people to really enthusiastically agree with each other.

          So yeah, the focus of the conversation isn’t always the most important issue, but that’s OK.

        5. XtinaS
          XtinaS June 17, 2013 at 10:17 am |

          amblingalong:

          a) The options aren’t between “disagree strenuously” or “be strictly Shakesvillian”. One can agree, express horror or disgust, discuss other methods of retaliation, and so forth.

          b) Disagreeing doesn’t happen in a vacuum. It’s super-common for a woman to be sexually assaulted (anywhere from harassed to raped) and then have everyone focus on what she should’ve done or not done, even to the point of positing totally baseless hypotheticals just to judge her some more.

          b.1) Such as here! Where no one, at all, knows the content of the email the woman sent to the dude’s mom (the photo coulda been zipped, while we’re totally making shit up “for argument’s sake”), and yet ZOMG SHE’S A SEXUAL HARASSER TOO come let us judge her.

        6. LotusBecca
          LotusBecca June 17, 2013 at 12:11 pm |

          I do think that online harassment is a big problem. And it is disturbing to me because more and more of our lives are starting to take place online, but as you said pheeno, so many people operate like they can do anything, no matter how shitty, because it is “just online” and not really real. It reminds me of how much street harassment comes from people yelling things at pedestrians out of their car windows. (Like online) being move removed both allows the harasser to feel more safe and also to be less guilty by not having to look at the full extent of the victim’s suffering.

          I do support retaliation against harassers. The main reason I was weighing in and saying I was uncomfortable with the way she contacted the guy’s mom is because I actually think a lot about what tactics are OK and what tactics are less OK. I’m personally a radical activist, and I have huge reserves of anger and the desire to act on them (and I often do). Some tactics that SEEM justified at first blush to me though I’ve been questioning more recently. For example, I used to support aggressive home demonstrations against fucked-up corporate CEOs and people like that. And I still have no problem with really going after the CEO and hurting him. But what about if he has young children living with him at his house, and they get scared? What about the neighbors who lose sleep and maybe get triggered just because they have the misfortune of living in the same neighborhood as that asshole? We could just be like. . .fuck it. . .we gotta take him down by any means necessary. . .but that sort of aggressive lack of concern for the unintended consequences of one’s actions on innocent people is also part of what is so shitty about our society and what we want to change in the first place. So I’m not so sure. Anyway, that’s the feeling I’m been having about sending all this detailed information about a traumatizing incident of sexual abuse to an uninvolved woman (the mom). I myself get sexually harassed on the internet not too infrequently, and though I usually just ignore it, I can imagine it being very satisfying and productive to really retaliate against my harasser. And retaliating is a GOOD idea. . .that was another thing. . .I was assuming we were all feminists and all agreed retaliation is a GOOD idea. So I certainly wasn’t trying to judge the original victim, and I can just stop talking about her in this way from here on out because apparently it’s coming across as victim blaming. But from my perspective, I was viewing her not just as a survivor but as a fellow feminist and a fellow comrade in the struggle, and I was seeing something she did being presented as a good idea as a tactic for moving forward. I experienced some doubts as to the ethicalness of the tactic so I felt the need to critique it because this is NOT hypothetical for me. If this is really a good tactic, more of us should START DOING IT when we get harassed online. I guess I still have my doubts as to whether it is fully ethical though.

        7. amblingalong
          amblingalong June 17, 2013 at 5:02 pm |

          a) The options aren’t between “disagree strenuously” or “be strictly Shakesvillian”. One can agree, express horror or disgust, discuss other methods of retaliation, and so forth.

          Of course. But it’s not problematic to say “we agree about issues 1-99, and disagree on issue 100, so let’s discuss that.”

          b) Disagreeing doesn’t happen in a vacuum. It’s super-common for a woman to be sexually assaulted (anywhere from harassed to raped) and then have everyone focus on what she should’ve done or not done, even to the point of positing totally baseless hypotheticals just to judge her some more.

          Again, sure. But this isn’t just a case of questioning someone’s response to being sexually assaulted, it’s a case where that response arguably (I would argue, and some clearly disagree) constituted sexual harassment in and of itself. To say we shouldn’t talk about that at all is actually much more problematic. Obviously people can and do disagree whether that response was sexual harassment, but it’s disingenuous to equate that question with second-guessing an innocent victim- because, at least from my perspective, her actions make her a perpetrator as well as a victim.

          b.1) Such as here! Where no one, at all, knows the content of the email the woman sent to the dude’s mom (the photo coulda been zipped, while we’re totally making shit up “for argument’s sake”), and yet ZOMG SHE’S A SEXUAL HARASSER TOO come let us judge her.

          Well, yes, I believe she is a sexual harasser and I do judge her. Being sexually harassed yourself isn’t an excuse to do it to someone else. Perhaps the information in the OP is incorrect or incomplete, but based on that information, it does appear she sent an unwitting stranger a nude picture of a dude. So yeah.

        8. XtinaS
          XtinaS June 17, 2013 at 5:23 pm |

          (God damn do I ever hate threading.)

          amblingalong:

          Again, sure. But this isn’t just a case of questioning someone’s response to being sexually assaulted, it’s a case where that response arguably (I would argue, and some clearly disagree) constituted sexual harassment in and of itself.

          Yeah, see, I don’t agree at all. The issue is, hilariously, intent: she had forwarded the photo on to his mother as more evidence that this did actually happen, which takes it out of the realm of “sexual item” and puts it in “evidence”.

          For a similar sort of example, my doctor, on showing me a picture of a healthy versus unhealthy breast, is not sexually harassing me. Some random person on OKC, however, would definitely be doing so. A biology book focusing on human reproduction: not porn! Porn: porn! My partner sending me naked photos: hot! Some spambot sending me naked photos: confusing! Some OKC person sending me naked photos: harassment!

          It’s like there’s this distinction… One might call it “context”.

        9. pheenobarbidoll
          pheenobarbidoll June 17, 2013 at 5:56 pm |

          and disagree on issue 100, so let’s discuss that

          When issue 100 is always what the victim did wrong, I think we can drop the pretense. Bottom line- we only know of one victim. The mother as a victim is speculation, period. So let’s talk about the perpetrator of sexual harassment that we know for 100% no doubt about it fact. And what he did.

          Because there are already 1-99 reasons to discuss his victims reaction, and there are already more comments about her than him. A feminist site sure doesn’t need to add to it.

        10. Fat Steve
          Fat Steve June 17, 2013 at 7:53 pm |

          When issue 100 is always what the victim did wrong, I think we can drop the pretense. Bottom line- we only know of one victim. The mother as a victim is speculation, period. So let’s talk about the perpetrator of sexual harassment that we know for 100% no doubt about it fact. And what he did.

          If it wasn’t clear from my precious comments, then I’ll make it clear now, though I think Trevor’s mother shouldn’t have been involved, I blame Trevor for getting his mother involved, not the victim.

        11. trees
          trees June 17, 2013 at 8:15 pm |

          The main reason I was weighing in and saying I was uncomfortable with the way she contacted the guy’s mom is because I actually think a lot about what tactics are OK and what tactics are less OK.

          @LotusBecca
          I see where you’re coming from and that makes sense. For me, all this questioning of the victims handling of the situation is just beside the point. I wouldn’t have handled things in the way described here, but so what, I’m not her and I’m not living her life. I trust that she knows her situation far better than any of us. [shrugging shoulders] How can we judge her actions when we have been presented with so little information? Hell, we don’t even know if she ever even sent the dang email to his mother. The only thing we know for sure is that Trevor the Internet Flasher is an asshole.

        12. amblingalong
          amblingalong June 17, 2013 at 8:44 pm |

          So let’s talk about the perpetrator of sexual harassment that we know for 100% no doubt about it fact. And what he did.

          And my point is that sure, we could do that, and then the comment thread would be three comments long, and we’d move on to the next topic. Which, in my mind, accomplishes very little.

        13. XtinaS
          XtinaS June 17, 2013 at 9:04 pm |

          amblingalong:

          And my point is that sure, we could do that, and then the comment thread would be three comments long, and we’d move on to the next topic. Which, in my mind, accomplishes very little.

          Didn’t realise we were using comment counts as an assessment of usefulness.

          There is a middle ground between Shakesville and Pharyngula, and there’s no need to invent shit in order to make the victim out to be Just As Bad as her sexual harasser just out of a fear of becoming an echo chamber.

        14. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 17, 2013 at 9:16 pm |

          sure, we could do that, and then the comment thread would be three comments long, and we’d move on to the next topic. Which, in my mind, accomplishes very little.

          Except a total lack of victim-blaming! Clearly that’s not an optimal occurrence, though.

          Seriously, the point where you admit to engaging in things that verge on victim-blaming in order to “generate discussion” is where you need to seriously step back and check your privilege.

      2. pheenobarbidoll
        pheenobarbidoll June 16, 2013 at 11:37 pm |

        And as of right now we know of only 1 victim. Not guess, not imagine,not put ourselves in some shoes and project how we’d feel or how our mother would feel- one we KNOW is a victim. So can we talk about what the perpetrator did, what we KNOW was done over what we think might have been maybe felt by his mother? Is the victim we KNOW about worth less time than the one that may not exist anywhere but our minds?

  21. lilith danne
    lilith danne June 17, 2013 at 2:01 am |

    Ok I hope its not your parents job to police you in adulthood my mother is my Facebook friends she is also abusive to me and if it were her job she would probably punish me for being a lesbian. Just saying.

  22. Azalea
    Azalea June 17, 2013 at 12:14 pm |

    Honestly, if this were a woman and the picture were sent to her father how many people would be ok with fathers saying “Hell yeah I’d want to see that picture of my DAUGHTER’S vagina so that I could correct her behavior!!!” WTF does seeing the actual picture have to do with correcting anything? It doesn’t. A screencapture of the convo, cool, right on! Put him on BLAST to his mommy! But forcing his mother to view a picture of her ADULT SON’S PENIS, that is sexually harassing her even if some other mother’s would have liked to see their adult son’s penis.

    With that said, personally I would have blocked him. The wonderful thing about the internet is if you are communicating with me and I feel threatened by those communications most sites allow me to report and/or block you from further communications. Sending his pic out to the internet is not so bad (and yes there are a lot of women who post unsolicited pictures of themselves to persons, groups, “like” pages etc. and will harass/abuse/taunt “haters” or people they think should find them attraction but obviously do not.) but sending the picture to his mother was beyond overkill. I just don’t understand why she’d need to see the picture he sent; he’s an adult and it’s his penis. It grosses me out that a parent would want to see a “seductive” picture of their adult child’s genitals.

    1. Kierra
      Kierra June 17, 2013 at 12:53 pm |

      “Hell yeah I’d want to see that picture of my DAUGHTER’S vagina so that I could correct her behavior!!!”

      No one was anywhere close to saying that. More like, “I would have no issue with someone sending me proof that my son did something shitty, because I would be too busy figuring out how to get it through my idiot son’s skull that such behavior isn’t appropriate.” No one said they would “like” to see such a picture (or their kid’s genitals, for crying out loud), only that they weren’t going to be pissed at the messenger for it.

      With that said, personally I would have blocked him.

      As would probably 99.9% of the women he sent that picture to. The problem with just blocking him is that he continues to be able to get his jollies off by doing the exact same thing to other women without fear of consequences. Not that women should feel obligated to retaliate, but those that do shouldn’t be dragged over the coals for it.

  23. a lawyer
    a lawyer June 17, 2013 at 5:30 pm |

    Responses like this one, and projects like Hollaback, function to eliminate that perception of safety that allows harassers to think they can get away with harassment without penalty…

    posting [the pics] online sends a message to Trevor and to all the Trevors to try this shit and see where it gets you.

    Eh. You have this entirely wrong, I think.

    The likelihood of someone avoiding harassment on the of chance that they will be selected from the other 100 million harassers as the “person of the week?” Zero, I think. We don’t deter people with the death penalty and you think shaming will work? Heck, if someone was on Hollaback would you even know about it?

    Vigilantism, though… well, THAT’s a thing. A growing thing. And it always seems good and fun and all until you end up being the target, ya? If you view the entire exchange and all that has come of it, i’m not rally sure it’s positive.

  24. XtinaS
    XtinaS June 17, 2013 at 5:54 pm |

    The issue I keep running into in my head is that we keep fighting for equality in every possible direction, intersection, and venue, and every single day, women get shat on by all of society, including publicly-shared consequences for anything under the sun.

    This one woman forwards a dudebro’s harassing comments and photos to his mother, and now she is a sexual harasser and we’re on a slippery slope to lawless vigilante justice. I totally need that kind of power in my daily life; I’d turn the world into a socialist genderqueer feminist utopia in a minute

    See also: http://www.thenation.com/blog/174624/fuck-high-road-upside-sinking-their-level#axzz2WVoC6u8u

    But the high road is overrated. It requires silence in the face of violent misogyny, and a turn-the-other cheek mentality that society has long demanded of women. A vibrant feminist movement has ensured women don’t take injustices laying down offline—so why would we acquiesce on the Internet?

    I’m sure folk should all be taking the high road, turning the other cheek, fighting using the system, like good women and citizens. (This is oddly like being a Democrat.) But sometimes, it’s intensely fucking frustrating that women keep being harassed, threatened, abused, and killed, and there’s no immediate recourse without becoming Just As Bad As The Other Side.

    1. macavitykitsune
      macavitykitsune June 17, 2013 at 6:19 pm |

      This one woman forwards a dudebro’s harassing comments and photos to his mother, and now she is a sexual harasser and we’re on a slippery slope to lawless vigilante justice.

      No shit, right?

      All these people clutching their pearls about The Poor Presumably Harassed Mother… I wonder how they feel about jury duty, if the case involves naked parts. Are judges and lawyers sexually harassing jurors casually and routinely? I wonder.

      1. XtinaS
        XtinaS June 17, 2013 at 9:08 pm |

        Hell, consider doctors! “This is an image of a healthy penis–” Harassment! Planned Parenthood, handing out those shower-head placards with how to self-check for breast lumps: total harassment! A sex ed teacher: Katy bar the door.

        Context: Not just for linguists!

        1. Aydan
          Aydan June 18, 2013 at 4:14 pm |

          I don’t think any of those are great analogies. Someone who goes to a doctor has initiated a professional exchange for the purpose of seeking medical advice. They’re there in a specific context, that of a patient, and probably understand that some explicit talk or visual information about their body might be in order. A similar thing holds for someone going to Planned Parenthood. The sex ed class and jury examples are a little murky because people aren’t always in those positions voluntarily, but they are there in a specific role that can logically be associated with seeing naked body parts in specific contexts.

          So the equivalent would be arguing that motherhood is a role that should bring along an expectation of having to see your adult child’s genitals at any moment. Someone going into a doctor’s office, or a Planned Parenthood, usually understands and accepts that the doctor or nurse might show them images in the context of the medical consultation that they’ve initiated. Someone raising a child is not, as far as I’m aware, agreeing to look at that child’s surprise penis selfies later in life.

          It’s possibly to point out that what this guy did was sexual harassment and wrong while also pointing out that sending pictures of someone’s aroused penis to a complete stranger with whom you have had no previous contact and have no sort of professional agreement (as opposed to, for example, a urologist doing a remote consult) is also wrong.

          And, sure, if this woman actually sent the picture, she may have zipped and/or described and/or attached it at the bottom of her message, but she still sent a completely unsolicited penis picture to a complete stranger. If Travis had sent the picture as an email attachment with the subject line, “This is my penis,” that still wouldn’t have been okay.

      2. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
        The Kittehs' Unpaid Help June 17, 2013 at 9:08 pm |

        Just what I was thinking, Mac. Mustn’t show naked bits pics to strangers ever? So, police aren’t allowed to see evidence? Jurors? Judges? Riiiight.

        1. amblingalong
          amblingalong June 18, 2013 at 4:22 pm |

          Yeah, Aydan just summed up why this makes no sense.

        2. pheenobarbidoll
          pheenobarbidoll June 18, 2013 at 7:53 pm |

          If a person is going to presume to speak for the mother and state she was sexually harassed WITHOUT having any knowledge of that she experienced, then you need to damn well that her NOT having been sexually harassed is equally valid.

          Because you don’t know. So please, stop being offended on behalf of a woman who has not asked for it, in order to have a fucking longer conversation.

        3. pheenobarbidoll
          pheenobarbidoll June 18, 2013 at 7:54 pm |

          *don’t know why my above comment dropped entire words

          If a person is going to presume to speak for the mother and state she was sexually harassed WITHOUT having any knowledge of what she experienced, then you need to damn well admit that her NOT having been sexually harassed is equally valid.

          Because you don’t know. So please, stop being offended on behalf of a woman who has not asked for it, in order to have a fucking longer conversation.

  25. A4
    A4 June 17, 2013 at 6:17 pm |

    We can talk about the narratives of sexual desirability in popular culture and how it seems like this man seem to feel sure he has the right to be congratulated for sending naked pictures to other people. Probably because he’s white, because he’s able bodied, because he’s a cis man, because he’s muscular, and because he has a “big cock”.

    The continued commercialized sexual objectification of only particular types of bodies not only shames and marginalizes those who do not fit these standards for having unacceptable bodies, it also gives those who do fit these standards support to demand that others must find their body acceptable, attractive, and praiseworthy or else be marginalize, dehumanized, and subject to violence.

    1. Fat Steve
      Fat Steve June 17, 2013 at 9:15 pm |

      it seems like this man seem to feel sure he has the right to be congratulated for sending naked pictures to other people.

      I disagree. I think either
      a)he is fully aware that most women, say 999 out of 1000 women, would not want an unsolicited penis pic, so he sent it out to 1000 women trying to find the 1.
      or
      b) it’s a pure act of aggression

      If this was about just about body types, he would have just sent a pic which featured his ‘six-pack’ rather than his ‘three-piece-set’. (which I still would maintain is harassment to some extent) I mean I can conceive that an unsolicited shirtless pic might be appreciated by a far higher percentage of women on a dating site than an unsolicited full frontal shot.

      1. trees
        trees June 17, 2013 at 9:28 pm |

        Yeah, I’m gonna go with option b.
        Trevor the Internet Flasher seems more like a regular old predator who could care less about the desires of his target.

        1. A4
          A4 June 18, 2013 at 8:02 am |

          I don’t think he cares about the desires of his target. I think he does consider what the target should enjoy, however, and I think that consideration is bolstered by the messages of what is sexually acceptable and what isn’t that are spread by commercialized sexual images of bodies in popular culture.

          I mean, the picture is not just a picture of his penis. It’s a picture of full-frontal nudity. He’s standing in a power pose, back straight, chest open, both feet on the ground, arms raised or at the ready. It is reminiscent of the way white male body power is eroticized in popular culture.

          Then look at his responses:

          “You don’t like?”
          because she SHOULD like.

          “Too big for ya?”
          Maybe she doesn’t like it for the acceptable reason that he is just so manly and powerful and she really does like it but is just scared of how big and manly he is.

          “Your a prude”
          If she genuinely doesn’t like it, there is something essentially wrong with her mental health.

          “No wonder your single”
          Her defective mentality is the cause of her defective state of being without a man.

          “I have a big cock”
          This is another basic statement of why he is objectively desirably manly.

          “I thought you would like it”
          He obviously did not think about her at all. He just thought about what preferences he can dictate all women must have, and these thoughts are going to be heavily influenced by the messages of popular culture where the subject of eroticized naked bodies is mainstream and prevalent.

          Poeple work with cultural scripts. Trevor is working with some pretty basic and pretty toxic cultural scripts here, and if we’re going to talk about what the fuck is up with Trevor’s stupid bullshit, I wanna see what flavor of bullshit he’s serving.

          saying he’s a “regular old predator” doesn’t mean anything.

        2. trees
          trees June 18, 2013 at 6:53 pm |

          saying he’s a “regular old predator” doesn’t mean anything.

          A4

          Okay…but this is really all that I need to know since I only hope to avoid him and his ilk. I have no interest in understanding him or his motivations, and your analysis makes me queasy (not ’cause of you, but rather the subject matter). Kudos to you though for doing that work.

        3. A4
          A4 June 18, 2013 at 7:09 pm |

          I have no interest in understanding him or his motivations, and your analysis makes me queasy (not ’cause of you, but rather the subject matter).

          That is totally legit.

      2. A4
        A4 June 18, 2013 at 8:07 am |

        it’s a pure act of aggression

        Since “pure act of aggression” is a pretty meaningless descriptor other than in it’s implied moral weight, I don’t think it’s inconsistent with the idea that Trevor’s entitlement is bolstered by sexism, racism, cissexism, heterosexism, sizism, and ablism that is characteristic of the way bodies are eroticized and commercialized in US popular culture.

        1. Fat Steve
          Fat Steve June 20, 2013 at 12:44 pm |

          Since “pure act of aggression” is a pretty meaningless descriptor other than in it’s implied moral weight, I don’t think it’s inconsistent with the idea that Trevor’s entitlement is bolstered by sexism, racism, cissexism, heterosexism, sizism, and ablism that is characteristic of the way bodies are eroticized and commercialized in US popular culture.

          The point is either Trevor knew she probably wouldn’t want the pic or he knew she definitely wouldn’t want the pic.

          Popular culture does not excuse him in any way. As it happens, in our sexist society, male nudity is much less common in popular culture than female nudity. Certainly very few men have framed photos of them an erect penis at home or at work. Trevor knows this inappropriate. So it is not at all insignificant to describe this as an act of aggression.

  26. friday jones
    friday jones June 19, 2013 at 8:48 pm |

    There is a HUGE difference between emailing a picture of your dick for purposes of sexual dominance, as evidenced by his response to her reaction, and emailing a picture of someone’s son to her in order to embarrass him into no longer emailing unsolicited dick pix. One is for a sexually aggressive purpose, the other is to discourage sexual aggression. The people who are equating the two are apparently just fine with letting this guy run around doing what he did all day every day, and don’t recognize the fact that this very likely saved MANY women from seeing this guy’s dick in their inbox, by sending his latest picture to the one woman who he apparently respects. Kudos to her.

    1. Hrovitnir
      Hrovitnir June 19, 2013 at 11:46 pm |

      Yeah, my 2c is that while it’s not totally worthless to discuss the ethics of sending those pictures on to the mother, the difference between the two is not just intent, it’s context.

      Assuming that the mother was sent an email with an unavoidable dick pic in the middle of it (big assumption), that’s not necessarily an ethically neutral act.

      That doesn’t mean equating it with the man’s original action isn’t any less ridiculous.

    2. LemonDemon
      LemonDemon June 20, 2013 at 7:19 am |

      Exactly what makes you think he respects his mother? I’ve seen no evidence of this.

      1. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
        The Kittehs' Unpaid Help June 22, 2013 at 10:41 pm |

        IIRC, didn’t he get all panicky and start apologising when the woman he’d harassed threatened to send the pic to his mother?

  27. justathoughtfulguy
    justathoughtfulguy June 20, 2013 at 3:45 am |

    The guy sent her a d*ck pic, called her prude and said no wonder you’re single.

    The girl said he harassed her, talked about his mother, said he perpetuated “rape culture” (insinuated he was a rapist), and then sent his d*ck pic without his permission to both his family members, friends, and the entire internet and ridiculed him.

    Is what the guy did stupid? H*ll yes, I would never do that. Did he carry it on a little too long? Yes.

    However, he was rejected and he felt rejected. If a woman sent boob pics and a guy started saying she “harassed” him and was totally cold about it and accused her of rape, the girl would feel EXTREMELY VULNERABLE, she would feel VERY INSECURE, she would feel UGLY, and she would feel HUMILIATED.

    How do I know this? One time a girl sent me a picture of her boobs and all I sent back was “I didn’t need to see that, i dont like you” (nothing rude, didnt accuse her of rape, didnt accuse her of harassment, just said hey look, i dont like you, my bad) and what does she do? She starts flipping out, saying I’m an a**hole, a jerk, so rude, that I humiliated her, made her look stupid, and that she’s gonna “get her friends to beat me up”.

    So ladies, lets be honest here. There are IDIOTS on BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE. ITS NOT JUST MEN.

    And quite honestly, this girl was way more rude than the guy. She must have had low self esteem if she’s soooo shocked at a guy hitting on her and sending a d*ck pic, that she feels “raped and violated”. I have girls hit on me all the time and I’ve gotten plenty of nudies that I hadnt specifically asked for. Guess what? I don’t accuse them of rape or harassment. Words like that SCARE PEOPLE. Honestly, this guy could have kept going out of FEAR. He probably felt like if he didn’t change her mind to agree it wasn’t harassment, that she would file charges or something. He probably worried about the legality of it. So again, I think the woman took it way too far. She should have done what I did, and just say “look, im not interested, im sorry, please dont do that again”.

    1. Kierra
      Kierra June 20, 2013 at 9:48 am |

      Well actually, first the girl didn’t respond to his texts. So apparently he took this as a sign that he should send her a nude pic. Then the girl said she didn’t want to see that. Then she said he was disrespecting her. Then he continued to insult her (rather than apologizing or leaving her alone). And only then did she point out that she could see his real Facebook page, could figure out who his mother is, and that he was harassing her. He had plenty of time to just leave her alone.

      said he perpetuated “rape culture” (insinuated he was a rapist)

      Come back when you have any idea what rape culture actually means (hint: it doesn’t mean she was insinuating he was a rapist).

      she feels “raped and violated”…Words like that SCARE PEOPLE. Honestly, this guy could have kept going out of FEAR.

      Funny how she didn’t use either of those words. She used “disrespected” early in the conversation and “harassed” and “rape culture” only at the end (after he had already “kept going”)

      1. TomSims
        TomSims June 20, 2013 at 11:19 am |

        @justathoughtfulguy

        Help me out, I’m confused. First you say “How do I know this? One time a girl sent me a picture of her boobs ”

        Key phrase “One time”. Then you go on to say “I have girls hit on me all the time and I’ve gotten plenty of nudies that I hadnt specifically asked for.”

        How does “One time” become “all the time”? Inquiring minds want to know!

        1. Fat Steve
          Fat Steve June 20, 2013 at 12:33 pm |

          @justathoughtfulguy

          Help me out, I’m confused. First you say “How do I know this? One time a girl sent me a picture of her boobs ”

          Key phrase “One time”. Then you go on to say “I have girls hit on me all the time and I’ve gotten plenty of nudies that I hadnt specifically asked for.”

          How does “One time” become “all the time”? Inquiring minds want to know!

          Well said, Tom!

          #firsttimeforeverything ;)

        2. TomSims
          TomSims June 20, 2013 at 12:49 pm |

          Thanks Steve!

        3. macavitykitsune
          macavitykitsune June 20, 2013 at 3:07 pm |

          TomSims,

          Clearly they send him nudies while pepper-spraying him in bars. That’s how he’s only ever seen one, but women send him boob shots all the time. He’s blinded by manpain every time it happens.

      2. pheenobarbidoll
        pheenobarbidoll June 20, 2013 at 5:17 pm |

        the girl would feel EXTREMELY VULNERABLE, she would feel VERY INSECURE, she would feel UGLY, and she would feel HUMILIATED.

        Tough shit for her. Because her actions were sexually harassing. If she feels humiliated after she sexually harasses someone, the fault is her own. She shouldn’t sexually harass people.

        Just like Trevor. He shouldn’t sexually harass people. I don’t give a shit how rejected he feels when his sexual harassment isn’t received with open arms. Tough shit.

    2. Donna L
      Donna L June 20, 2013 at 2:49 pm |

      So ladies, lets be honest here.

      Anytime some guy shows up here and starts his lecture with “So ladies,” or anything similar, I know I’m not going to be happy.

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