Author: has written 210 posts for this blog.

tigtog blogs a lot elsewhere, but here on Feministe she mostly does the tech support and feeds the giraffe. tigtog tweets in irregular flurries @vivsmythe.
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63 Responses

  1. Ally S
    Ally S December 6, 2013 at 8:00 pm |

    Since all I post about are negative things, I’ll try to be more positive this time (especially since I’m feeling extremely horrible today):

    1) Another trans girl recently came out to me in a private message on a forum both she and I visit from time to time. Per her request, I gave her all sorts of general trans girl advice e.g. it’s okay if you don’t want to undergo transition treatments, try to shop in thrift stores because the people there are less likely to stare at you, etc. I’m not entirely sure why, but I was very happy to see that she chose me as the person to come out to. She is the third trans girl to come out to me.

    2) My drug use has decreased significantly. I no longer use weed as a means of coping, and I only use it for recreational use now. Sometimes I use it when I’m feeling very anxious or depressed, but not always, and I always second-guess myself before I decide to smoke.

    3) Many people used to tell me about how horrible Java is, but because of my background in Ruby (another programming language), Java has been very easy for me to learn. Its overall architecture has some annoying aspects, but at the core it’s not too bad. If I keep learning at this rate, I might actually be employable. ^_^

    4) I’ve been diving into post-structuralist philosophy lately with Michel Foucault’s work, particularly his book Discipline and Punish. Every other page is fascinating to me, and it’s surprisingly easy for me to read (although the phrase “political technology of the body” confused me for a while because it sounded so weird).

    1. Andie
      Andie December 6, 2013 at 9:26 pm |

      I recently picked up Crime and Punish as well, but haven’t gotten around to reading it. Maybe I should give it a read and we could compare notes?

      1. Andie
        Andie December 6, 2013 at 9:27 pm |

        Crap, I mean Discipline and Punish. Sorry was paying more attention to the author than the title.

      2. Ally S
        Ally S December 6, 2013 at 9:43 pm |

        Have you read any of Foucault’s other work? If not, you’ve picked the right book – it’s a good introduction to his various ideas, according to someone I know who is a Foucault fan. If you’re new to post-structuralist philosophy, prepare for a difficult read – I did say that it’s surprisingly easy for me to read, but it’s still pretty difficult. I already find myself confused about some things, and I haven’t even reached the second section of the book. So unfortunately, I don’t know if we can compare notes – unless one of us end up gaining a decent understanding of the book. =P

        Nevertheless, it’s very interesting, and Foucault’s study of power is insightful and unique (at least to me). It’s definitely worth reading. BTW, the beginning has some graphic violence in it, so you should bear that in mind in case such things are triggering to you (and I think there might be some descriptions of violent torture in other parts of the book as well, so you should bear that in mind, too).

    2. Tony
      Tony December 6, 2013 at 11:36 pm |

      My former place of employment looked for a Java developer for months, I daresay over a year, and never found one, judging by how long the ad was up at the company website. In my area I’ve found that tech companies usually are or serve large enterprises and so they look for developers of object oriented languages backed by large companies which are stable and reliable. Generally that means some variation of Java (backed by Oracle) or C (backed by Microsoft).

      My first and only Foucault book was a history of sexuality, vol. 1. A short book and not too taxing. It was interesting to be sure, but I found him a bit reactionary (against a strawman of 60s liberation) I was not surprised at all to hear of his support for the Ayatollah in 1979. Nor can I honestly say I understood everything in the book. However, nonetheless I appreciated his defense if the ars erotica over clinical modern sexuality, the latter of which is certainly a form of ideology designed to invade our minds.

      1. Andie
        Andie December 7, 2013 at 9:20 am |

        I’ve got that one too, on my long list of “yet to be read”

      2. Ally S
        Ally S December 7, 2013 at 12:49 pm |

        Generally that means some variation of Java (backed by Oracle) or C (backed by Microsoft).

        Yeah, this is basically the reason I’m trying to learn Java. The other language I’m decently familiar with is Ruby, and hopefully I eventually learn to use JRuby so that I can implement it in large scale Ruby on Rails web applications to make them run faster (JRuby is Ruby that runs on the Java Virtual Machine). And RoR programmers tend to have pretty good wages these days, which is good for me because I need money.

      3. LNel
        LNel December 13, 2013 at 8:37 pm |

        Generally that means some variation of Java (backed by Oracle) or C (backed by Microsoft).

        Just an unnecessary nit-picky comment: I think you’re thinking of C#, which is backed by Microsoft. C is a widely used language that many other languages, including Java and C#, borrow from. As far as I know C has no connection to Microsoft.

  2. Chataya
    Chataya December 6, 2013 at 8:10 pm |

    I hope everyone dealing with the ice and snow in the South is making it through! I snapped some pictures when I took my dog out earlier.

    http://i.imgur.com/JZ7fp5X.jpg?1
    http://i.imgur.com/8ldN4LG.jpg?1
    http://i.imgur.com/naPvhuZ.jpg?1

    That’s not snow, it’s ice and sleet if anyone is wondering.

    1. kittehserf
      kittehserf December 7, 2013 at 7:03 pm |

      Brrr! Does it usually snow where you are, or is this extreme cold?

      Cute dog, is zie a Basenji?

      1. Chataya
        Chataya December 7, 2013 at 9:32 pm |

        It usually doesn’t get terribly cold where I live, maybe around 30 F. The ice is typical, the streets have a half inch of solid ice on them right now. Snow is pretty rare, maybe a few inches at most. Which almost always promptly melts and refreezes into ice…

        Thank you, he is a Pomeranian/American Staffordshire Terrier mutt.

    2. H-naught
      H-naught December 7, 2013 at 8:25 pm |

      Brrr! I hate sleet and ice so more than snow. We just got some snow where I am and the city doesn’t know how to deal with it – street’s aren’t plowed, people don’t shovel sidewalks etc – so 4in is a huge deal, which mystifies me as I’m from the midwest so 4in should be nothing. I don’t even feel safe driving, mainly because my parking lot is icy and has a steep driveway. I am so thankful right now I can walk to everywhere I need to go, and that it’ll be above freezing by Tuesday
      At least you have a very cute dog for you ice and sleet adventures : )

      1. Chataya
        Chataya December 7, 2013 at 9:37 pm |

        Lol, I don’t think my city has more than one snowplow. I saw one of my neighbors attempting to shovel his driveway with a garden hoe, and of course the salt trucks can’t run in this weather. We got 5 inches last Christmas and it shut the city down for a week, power went out over much of the area.

        My fiancee is from Chicago, so he thinks it’s really funny to hear us call that a “blizzard.” But he has never had to deal with ice like this because they always plow up north.

        I’m hoping it will melt by Tuesday; we’ve already got an expedition to the grocery store planned for tomorrow just in case.

        Dog is rather enjoying it, although without his walkies he won’t leave the cat alone.

        1. kittehserf
          kittehserf December 7, 2013 at 10:06 pm |

          He’d better watch out, he might face Cat Anger Consequences. :)

        2. H-naught
          H-naught December 7, 2013 at 10:08 pm |

          I’m from Chicago too so I’m not used to this little snow causing so many problems. I’ve heard that my city has only one snowplow. There’s was a warning on the state dept of transportation website to use snow chains if traveling on one of the interstates out of town – for 4-8in of snow total! Also, I’m in a valley, there are some hills in town but not on the interstate, and the snow stopped falling yesterday afternoon!

        3. pheenobarbidoll
          pheenobarbidoll December 8, 2013 at 1:13 am |

          Ice here. We don’t have any plows or salt trucks and no snow tires/ winter tires which is why this weather shuts everything down.

    3. Andie
      Andie December 12, 2013 at 8:07 am |

      So. Much. Snow.

      We had about 15 inches of snow yesterday. They gave up plowing all but the main roads until this morning. Coming home last night, down my street, I had snow coming up on the hood because neither the road or the driveway was plowed or shovelled.

  3. Willemina
    Willemina December 7, 2013 at 3:18 am |

    Dear no one in particular,

    Don’t you really hate when people do a really nice thing that You Definitely Didn’t Want or Need? I commute by bike year round, and yes there is snow for 3.5ish months of that year. Yes it gets below freezing, and yes I’m on the road late at night. Yes I’m aware you have a car/truck/internal-combustion-powered-steel-chariot and are willing to give me a ride. I am aware that I can ask you or any number of other excellent people to take me home or pick me up should I really need it, or just don’t want to bike that day. I am happy to bring treats by way of thanks and thus the workplace karmic balance is maintained.

    Where we run in to problems is when you 1) insist I get a ride on a particular night after I’ve made my intentions to bike clear, I’m a big girl and know my limits. 2) Follow me to the end of the drive-way to make sure I’m absolutely sure, I don’t have great peripherals bundled up as I am but tires on snow are kinda noisy. 3) Catch up to me after I’ve gone the better part of mile and pull up alongside to tell me it’s too cold and I need to take your offered coerced ride. At that point I’m too fucking mortified to protest and you win! Yay happyfeelgoodtime!

    Knock it the fuck off,

    Me

    **I wish I could post this in the break room, along with a diatribe about how where I live and what I pay in rent is Nunya Damn Business Inc: Opinions and Advice tolerated on a one per customer basis**

    1. Andie
      Andie December 7, 2013 at 9:20 am |

      Used to get this a lot when I was heavy into walking just for excercise. People did not get that I was walking because I wanted to.

      Meanwhile, when I was broke and preggers and had to walk an hour back and forth from work each way (yes, it actually WAS up hill both ways!) in the dead of winter… Not a word.

      But holy crap.. Following you? That’s downright weird and invasive.

    2. Kerandria
      Kerandria December 11, 2013 at 9:25 pm |

      I’m so sorry that that is happening to you. I know where you’re coming from with this, Willemina – I, too, am car-free and esp when I was living in my home state (Maine), people would NOT stop trying to (loudly and around other coworkers) coerce me into accepting rides that I just didn’t want. The worst part was the weird power dynamics of me being ‘less than’ because I didn’t drive and I owed it to them, the respectable person, to not only save me but remind me how awesomesauce they were (to me any anyone that would listen)the entire time. It was so shitty and awkward, but I lacked the words and teeth to deal with that sort of thing in that stage of my development.

      where I live and what I pay in rent is Nunya Damn Business Inc: Opinions and Advice tolerated on a one per customer basis**

      That is magical and so, so true. It blows my mind how invasive coworkers can be re: boundaries.

    3. Fat Steve
      Fat Steve December 11, 2013 at 10:30 pm |

      Don’t you really hate when people do a really nice thing that You Definitely Didn’t Want or Need?

      Yes, one of my wife’s clients got her two VIP seats to go see Pink in concert. I am familiar with more songs than I realized, from working at a ‘hit music’ station, but I don’t know any of the words or anything. Plus I assumed since she was a pop star, I was going to be the oldest person there. However the tickets cost a lot of money and none of my wife’s friends wanted to see the show so I felt I had to go. And I ultimately had a good time, but that was down to me being nicely buzzed and dancing with my wife. I would have had an equally good time at a dance club where the play pre-recorded music. I was dreading it though, from the day she told me about it, I mean like actually stressing out to the point of needing to take a Xanax. So, yeah, I totally get that sense of dread from an unwanted really nice offer. But based on experience, I find occasionally if I can convince myself to go with the flow and put aside my fears (mine being crowds) and insecurities (mine being every aspect of myself,) it actually works better than Xanax.

    4. Fat Steve
      Fat Steve December 11, 2013 at 10:35 pm |

      **I wish I could post this in the break room, along with a diatribe about how where I live and what I pay in rent is Nunya Damn Business Inc: Opinions and Advice tolerated on a one per customer basis**

      Don’t move to New York City if you hate these questions, as they seem to be considered not at all rude and part of the normal conversation over here as long as they preface the question ‘if you don’t mind me asking…’

      Well, if I did mind, it’s too late, huh?

  4. kittehserf
    kittehserf December 7, 2013 at 8:34 pm |

    That’s a lovely pic of St Kilda Pier. I’ve never been there at sunset, but lots of times during the day. Sadly it might not be around that much longer; there are plans to make a much bigger marina/breakwater thingy.

  5. Tony
    Tony December 8, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
  6. Midvinterblot
    Midvinterblot December 8, 2013 at 3:31 pm |

    Having read the entire recent post about abortions I’ve come across a lot of people saying that they are in favour of unrestricted abortions, be it at week 1 or 39, on the grounds that all women have the right to decide over their own body. Now I haven’t even considered whether or not you should be able to have an abortion past week 24, so I have a couple of questions regarding what you should do with the fetus. If you have an abortions past week 24 should the doctors try and save the fetus and should the woman have any say in it?

    1. mamram
      mamram December 8, 2013 at 3:58 pm |

      Don’t you think that when we’re talking about the morality of something that happens this infrequently (abortion after week 24) it’s more useful to consider each individual case, rather than considering late term abortion in abstract? Usually when I encounter people who are drawn to questioning the morality of extremely late termination in abstract, it’s because on some level (whether they realize it or not) they want to assert some sweeping generalities about ALL abortion, and they want to do it based on the most extreme edge case they can think of.

      1. EG
        EG December 9, 2013 at 8:30 pm |

        Exactly. There aren’t hordes of women out there trying to abort at week 30 for funsies, and being held back only by the law. This is not something that people do except under extreme circumstances, which is why I’m perfectly comfortable with it being unrestricted. You don’t need to restrict things that don’t happen.

    2. ldouglas
      ldouglas December 8, 2013 at 4:50 pm |

      If you have an abortions past week 24 should the doctors try and save the fetus and should the woman have any say in it?

      The way I think about abortion is roughly the same way I think about someone hooked up to a hypothetical life-support machine that’s responsible for keeping another person alive. You have the right to ‘disconnect’ at any time, because you have bodily autonomy, even if that ‘kills’ the other person. You don’t have the right to go out of your way to kill them, though.

      In other words, you have the right to remove a fetus from your body, whenever, because it’s your body. If the side effect of doing that is the death of the fetus, that doesn’t change your right to control your own body. But if the fetus can be removed without death, I’d argue that bodily autonomy doesn’t extend to specifying it be killed anyways- a viable fetus is a human itself with human rights. Those rights just don’t extend to forcing another human being to be your life-support machine.

    3. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
      The Kittehs' Unpaid Help December 8, 2013 at 5:53 pm |

      Surely anyone having an abortion that late is doing so because of the discovery of some gross congenital condition in the fetus that’s going to kill it anyway, or make ordinary labour life threatening for the woman, or both? Who goes that far into a pregnancy only to change their mind at the end (except those who’ve been prevented from getting an abortion when they wanted to, of course)?

  7. Little Raven
    Little Raven December 11, 2013 at 11:41 am |

    This has nothing to do with the normal set of topics here at Feministe, but it makes me sad.

    Hometown ‘Hero’ killed in firearm accident.

    A teenage girl known as a hero in her Indiana hometown for saving two children who fell through the ice at a local reservoir has died in what appears to be a tragic shooting accident.

    Someone who claimed to know both said that while Jacob could be stupid, he wasn’t a bad guy, and I actually believe that. But stupid + guns is a lethal combination. Now one life is ended and goodness knows how many are ruined because of a pistol in the wrong hands.

    Such a stupid tragedy.

  8. anna_k
    anna_k December 11, 2013 at 1:28 pm |

    Posting something on open thread that I had previously posted on Spillover, so sorry for double-posting:

    For anyone following Indian news, this just happened: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Homosexuality-is-an-offence-Supreme-Court-rules/articleshow/27208873.cms?

    Yeah. As macavitykitsune put it on the other thread, numbness is the main feeling. 1/6 of the world’s people just potentially had their identities re-criminalised, by a court which could so, so easily (there are multiple relevant constitutional provisions) have made the right choice.

    This press release, by CSMR Bengaluru, sums it up well I think: http://orinam.net/377/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/PressRelease_CSMR_Bengaluru.pdf

    1. anna_k
      anna_k December 11, 2013 at 1:39 pm |

      Oh, also: I know it’s being reported that the Supreme Court said this was a matter for the legislature to resolve but:
      1) It didn’t do so in the way of past courts who’ve honestly felt constrained by legislation e.g. expressing real anger at the result it felt forced to make- more of a “nope, out of our hands” thing.

      2) Given who’s likely to get elected in the next general election, progressive legislation is extremely unlikely, which is why it would have been so vital for the court to enshrine this now.

      1. macavitykitsune
        macavitykitsune December 11, 2013 at 4:25 pm |

        I think what kills me is that this is a quarter of the world’s LGB+ population that has just been declared inherently criminal. A quarter. A fucking quarter of the fucking world in 20fucking13.

        I’m just so tired.

    2. macavitykitsune
      macavitykitsune December 11, 2013 at 4:39 pm |

      Petition here. Please, please sign.

      1. Ally S
        Ally S December 11, 2013 at 4:50 pm |

        Done. Seriously, this is awful. :{

      2. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
        The Kittehs' Unpaid Help December 11, 2013 at 5:42 pm |

        Signed, mac. This is the pits.

      3. GallingGalla
        GallingGalla December 11, 2013 at 8:30 pm |

        Signed.

      4. DannyChameleon
        DannyChameleon December 12, 2013 at 1:13 pm |

        Absolutely signed.

    3. anna_k
      anna_k December 11, 2013 at 11:25 pm |

      Apparently, it’s just the day for more of this kind of thing: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25344219 (Australia’s High Court overturns their first regional same-sex marriage law; 27 couples will now have their marriages declared invalid; Court says it’s for government to legislate issue- let’s all ignore that it was the government who went against the permissive law in the first place).

      No words, only rage.

      1. macavitykitsune
        macavitykitsune December 12, 2013 at 3:13 am |

        I give up. There is not enough booze in the world.

      2. Li
        Li December 12, 2013 at 8:43 pm |

        The Territory government knew they were on very shaky constitutional ground in putting through this legislation and did so partially to test the waters (and their extreme fear of having the legislation struck down, couple with some hardcore pushing by particular homocon lobby groups was one of the reasons they changed the language at the last minute to cut out non-binary trans people – yes I am still pissed). To be honest, the High Courts decision in this case was pretty legally sound and not really very unexpected.

        It’s always been on the Federal parliament to put the changes through. It’s their jurisdiction, and the fact that successive governments have been raging snotrags about it doesn’t make it not their jurisdiction.

  9. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
    The Kittehs' Unpaid Help December 11, 2013 at 10:09 pm |

    Nothing much happening here, but I did get this photo-composite of Louis made up over the last two *cough* lunch breaks *cough* at work:

    A day out, with pub lunch.

  10. Anon for this
    Anon for this December 12, 2013 at 8:23 pm |

    So, tonight, my daughter told me that after the Christmas break she wants to cut her hair, get new clothes and go back to school as a boy. I am not sure if this a gender identity or dysmorphia issue or more about playing with gender presentation. I am leaning towards it being more about presentation since she’s never shown any signs of dysphoria or desire to be anything but a girl. Shes also been dealing with some bullies at school, so i dont know if it’s a just-wanting-to-be-anyone-else thing. i just want to be as sensitive and supportive as possible either way. Any advice to help me not inadvertantly be an ass to my own kid?

    (I’m using she as a pronoun for now since she did not indicate a preference otherwise when I asked)

    1. Ally S
      Ally S December 12, 2013 at 9:29 pm |

      I suggest you sit down with them and just ask “Do you want to become a boy?” and assure them that you’ll support them no matter what gender they want to “become.” It’s important to ask the question with that particular phrasing because many trans kids describe their feelings by saying things like “I want to become a boy/girl.” If you just ask “Do you think of yourself as a boy or a girl?” they might be confused because of the pervasive, cis-centric narratives about the “proper” anatomy for women and girls.

    2. Donna L
      Donna L December 12, 2013 at 10:24 pm |

      Have you discussed her reasons with her? It does sound a little sudden, and the fact that she phrased it as specifically connected with school rather than as a general desire, certainly raises the possibility that dealing with bullying — especially if it’s gender-related — might be part of her motivation. So I wouldn’t make “do you want to become a boy” my first question (for a lot of reasons); I would wait and see where the conversation led. And of course the nature of the conversation depends to an extent on how old she is.

      1. Anon for this
        Anon for this December 12, 2013 at 11:15 pm |

        She’s twelve. We talked a bit about gender identity, as well as presentation, and fluidity and I told her that I’d help get her hair cut and get some clothes so that if she wanted to try presenting male, at home or in public, she could see if she liked it. She’s always presented as very femme, so this was a surprise to me.

    3. SophiaBlue
      SophiaBlue December 12, 2013 at 11:18 pm |

      Sometimes I think dysphoria can be hard to see from the outside. Probably my parents wouldn’t have guessed I’m dysphoric either. It’s also possible that right now she doesn’t know if it’s a desire to present as a boy full time or just play around either, and she’s using this as an experiment to find out. I think your number one job is to make clear that you’ll support her no matter what.

      1. Ally S
        Ally S December 12, 2013 at 11:52 pm |

        Yeah, this makes sense. I had similar feelings before I realized I was trans.

        Also: long time, no see! ^_^

      2. Donna L
        Donna L December 13, 2013 at 12:38 am |

        Seconding Ally, here, Sophia — good to see you again!

      3. SophiaBlue
        SophiaBlue December 13, 2013 at 1:44 am |

        Thanks Ally and Donna :)

        School’s kept me busy, but I’m trying to get back into commenting now that the semester’s over.

      4. Donna L
        Donna L December 13, 2013 at 12:04 pm |

        By the way, I haven’t mentioned my own childhood experiences, because I grew up in such a different era. I am 99.9% certain that my parents (primarily my mother) were aware of my “gender-different” feelings from the time I was quite young until I was 8 or so, because I made no particular effort to hide them — although I’m equally certain that if I had been asked “do you want to be a girl,” I would have vigorously denied such a desire, because even then I had an inkling that I shouldn’t admit to something quite that specific. (As when I was 7, and my father gave me a button I was supposed to wear that said “It’s a Man’s World.” I didn’t say how distasteful I found the concept, but managed to lose the damn thing rather quickly.) When I was 8, though, there came a day when I realized that my mother didn’t really approve even of what I had expressed; after that, wild horses couldn’t have made me admit to anything at all in the way of gender variance, and I kept it carefully hidden from my family and everyone else for close to another 40 years.

        So, different times.

    4. macavitykitsune
      macavitykitsune December 12, 2013 at 11:36 pm |

      Huh. We’re dealing with pretty much the same thing (the kid currently feels genderfluid), so my advice based on what worked for us (and which is probably redundant, since it sounds like you’re doing well!) would be:

      1) Discuss LGBT issues around the kid, make your stance clear in all cases. Don’t just do that in the context of conversations directly about your kid.

      2) Don’t ask leading questions; instead, provide a bunch of case studies, so to speak, of being cis, trans, genderqueer, genderfluid, etc, and indicate your support of all these.

      3) Do, please, bring up things your kid might not have asked for specifically, such as a binder or other “aids”. See how the response goes and take it from there.

      4) Do ask if the bullying has an element of gender-policing, and if so, how you can help with that (DON’T suggest ways that the kid can conform! Instead, bring up other tactics to defuse the situation that don’t require your child to move away from any form of self-expression).

      Also, seconding Donna’s question. In my case the kid wanted to present as “both” genders (in quotes because ffs it’s not a binary) in and out of school. If this is a bullying deal, that needs rather different handling.

      Best of luck, anon, to both you and the kid. Hope everything turns out just fine.

      1. SophiaBlue
        SophiaBlue December 13, 2013 at 3:49 am |

        It’s also a good idea to bring up binders because you want to make sure your child isn’t using ace bandages or other things that could damage their health.

        1. Anon for this
          Anon for this December 13, 2013 at 10:21 am |

          I thought about bringing up binders, but wasn’t sure if it was too early. She said it was only very recently she has thought of doing this (like, the last day or two), and has AFAIK told me, her teacher, her best friend and my boyfriend. I don’t know what her friends response was, but I’m told her teacher said “Oh, cool”. She seemed rather surprised when said I was fine with her plan, even the haircut (which I don’t know why she was surprised with that part, she’s had her hair short a number of times before)

          I’ve been pretty vocal about my support of LGBQT people, and occasionally give voice to my awareness that they (I have another daughter as well) may not grow up straight and that’s totally okay but I’ve honestly not done as much consideration that they might not be cis (like, I’ve thought about it, but haven’t been as vocal about it).

          To the best of my knowledge, the bullying has not been gender related, but I could be wrong.

          Thank you so much, everybody, for your advice so far.

  11. TimmyTwinkles
    TimmyTwinkles December 13, 2013 at 6:38 pm |

    This comment is regarding the Shakesville discussion above. Though I havent commented here very long, Ive read a ton of feministe back-threads (im a nerd sue me) including most of the juicy flamewar-ian ones. And as far as the prominent sites in the SJ/feminist blogosphere go, I think Jill by far has showed the most class and intellectual honesty when she has gotten called out on something. Particularly when she has had to balance her personal relationships with Valenti and Marcotte with crap they pulled, I think she really tried to step back and take an honest look at what others were bringing to her attention. She’s not perfect by any means but i think she deserves props for how she’s handled criticism and getting called out in the past. And im not saying she shouldnt have gotten called out for various things, just referring to how she has handled it.

    1. Donna L
      Donna L December 13, 2013 at 6:44 pm |

      Maybe you meant this for the spillover thread?

      1. TimmyTwinkles
        TimmyTwinkles December 13, 2013 at 11:01 pm |

        Well i thought id put it here in relation to the Shakesville discussion above, but maybe it would be more appropriate in spillover; im a little shaky on the etiquette.

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